KnockBack, Episode 29 | The Batman: Dark Knight Trilogy
Added 2018-08-30 16:00:02 +0000 UTCThe three movies in the Christopher Nolan Batman Trilogy are widely considered to be the best superhero movies ever made, particularly within the nearly decade-long time they were produced and released. Rife with exceptional acting talent -- from Christian Bale, Tom Hardy, and Heath Ledger to Gary Oldman, Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine, and beyond -- Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight flicks feel realistic, grounded, and gritty, and have earned and retained legions of fans around the world. Today's discussion revolves around those three films: Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, and The Dark Knight Rises. From the production and the writing to the performances and the reception, there's much to discuss, and even more to show respect and admiration for.
Comments
I know that they technically stand alone (some of them), but they're still interconnected with easter eggs and references. This seems to be a pretty deliberate choice by Marvel and Disney, no?
Colin Moriarty
2019-01-08 22:59:43 +0000 UTCYou should try the Expanse novels. They're great.
Colin Moriarty
2019-01-08 22:59:15 +0000 UTCFor sure. Sad we won't!
Colin Moriarty
2019-01-08 22:59:02 +0000 UTCI disagree a lot with different points you made, but also agreed with some. Yes, they are great! But saying Marvel have every movie connected is false. You can watch Doctor Strange for example and still feel it's a standalone. In Avengers Infinity War however it's different. But all the solo movie-titles always felt standalone (except if it's the same title perhaps, such as Ironman 1, 2. Guardians of the Galaxy 1, 2. etc.). IAlso, I don't believe that The Dark Knight is as good or as "prestiged" as some other comic book movies like Logan or Black Panther. I'd rather watch those tbh.
Niklas
2018-09-19 15:00:20 +0000 UTCColin I’m curious, after listening to this and hearing you mention interstellar, and after getting the Martian off of you mentioning it years ago, are there any Novels you’d recommend for someone who was a fan of both Interstellar and the Martian? Interstellar is one of my favorite sci fi movies ever
John Lynch
2018-09-18 23:36:05 +0000 UTCJust watched Rises man it would have been awesome to see a Nightwing Levitt.
Anthony Stewart
2018-09-09 19:32:26 +0000 UTC"Of course!"
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-08 02:15:53 +0000 UTCAgree 100% about the MCU lacking stakes and consequences, big reason why those films, other than Winter Soldier, don't resonate with me. Also Colin is right, Bane is the best villain and anyone who disagrees has my permission to die 😂
Haydyn
2018-09-07 14:43:38 +0000 UTCHey, if you think you can fill an hour. =)
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-07 03:31:17 +0000 UTCI like Hamill's too, though!
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-07 03:31:05 +0000 UTCColin, I will personally fly out to you and defend the fact that Aquaman is cool on an episode of Fireside Chats.
Daddy Dilkers
2018-09-06 17:16:54 +0000 UTCLedger is definitely my favorite joker. I didn't think anyone would take the place of Mark Hamill till I saw that movie.
Anthony Stewart
2018-09-04 16:12:30 +0000 UTCYou should really go back and check it out. It's been awhile!
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-03 23:23:03 +0000 UTCI'm glad that you covered this because I haven't thought about the Nolan trilogy in a while and this made me remember how much I love it. Though I have only seen Dark Knight Rises once, in the theater, so I think it's time to revisit it. Man, it's a really unique thing, you are 100% right that no other comic book movie could even hope to hold a candle to any of the three big ones. I think Logan came close but it's impossible to imitate the Nolan magic.
Michal Dudic
2018-09-03 07:33:25 +0000 UTCHahaha. Thank you for listening!
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-03 06:54:52 +0000 UTCYes, brother!
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-03 06:54:44 +0000 UTCCame for the bane impressions left more than fulfilled. I think bale gets a bad rap as an actor. He was great in the fighter, American Hustle, and the big short. As far as his role as Batman I think he’s better suited as the secondary character to the villains then a strong lead who could carry the movie by himself. I’m also interested on your guys thoughts on the Sam Raimi Spider-Man trilogy. He did a great job grounding Spider-Man and making the villains sympathetic. While he’s no Nolan those movies besides the third feel different compared to anything else marvel or DC has done. Thanks for another great episode!
David
2018-09-03 01:31:28 +0000 UTCLoved this episode. The Bane hate has always been weird to me, but I guess I've felt that way regarding anyone hating on 'odd' accents. I love Tom Hardy (ever since he did Handsome Bob in Rocknrolla lol) and I can't fucking wait to see him do Venom soon. I prefer Ledger's Joker too, like the majority seemingly, but I thought Bane was incredible.
hugplx
2018-09-03 00:41:31 +0000 UTCThat's totally fair, I can see that. I'm curious, I thought it was her being bad to, what did you find that it really was?
Joseph La Russa
2018-09-02 19:10:17 +0000 UTCHe possibly ruined it for future actors, but that's their problem, not his. =)
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-02 19:09:13 +0000 UTCI can't speak for Dagan, but she was in my show notes. We just never got to her. I always thought Holmes was recast because she was bad; was surprised to learn, when researching for this episode, that that wasn't the case. Since I think Batman is kinda (ironically) inconsequential to what makes these movies so good, I find her relationship with him equally inconsequential.
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-02 19:08:52 +0000 UTCThanks for taking my question, Colin. I really enjoyed this episode, and while I’m here, I’ve got another Nolan/Batman question: do you think Heath Ledger ruined The Joker for any actor looking to portray the character in the future? His performance was so fresh and off the wall that I can’t help but feel like the only ways to go from here are back to the silly, laughy 60s TV roots, or to just try and do what Heath did a little differently. I didn’t mind Jared Leto at all, I think he’s a very talented actor, but I did feel like the voice he used was very much like a Heath Ledger impression. Your thoughts?
Ian (616Entertainment)
2018-09-02 18:53:37 +0000 UTCExcellent discussion, gentlemen! But I have a question: why no talk or even mention of Katie Holmes/Maggie Gyllenhaal's character Rachel? I think she's a very important character in the first two films and you don't even bring her up. What are your thoughts on her and the actresses that portray her?
Joseph La Russa
2018-09-02 13:33:08 +0000 UTCWell, we share having a Nolan film in our top five. =)
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-02 03:20:12 +0000 UTCHave loved The Dark Knight for as long as I can remember. When I bought my first iPod Touch on 9th grade and finally had the opportunity to download movies on the go, it was the only movie I even considered putting on it. It's a film that I will gladly watch any day any time and one that I would likely put in my top 5 favorites of all time.
Jeremy Brokos
2018-09-02 01:58:07 +0000 UTCIt's been a little while since I've truly sat down and actually paid attention to either Burton film, though I think of them fondly, and always really enjoyed them. I should give them another shot, soon, and I wouldn't be surprised if Dagan and I dedicated an episode of KnockBack to both films in the future.
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-01 22:49:40 +0000 UTCEnjoyed this one. I'm more of Burton Batman film fan than of the Nolan films, and to be honest I like Nolan's non Batman films over his batmans (despite being a big Batman fan, I even have the old serials). Yeah, Bale's portrayal is cold but I find the film themselves to have that coldness and distance. They're about rather than being, which I find Nolan's other films not to fall into. There's an emotional distance to them for me and I find the Joker to be fairly repetitive by the second half. He makes his point and then keeps repeating. (Love bane though. He's a muscular Vincent Price essentially) I think the Batman character gets in Nolan's way a lot, like he's trying to make another movie and has to go back to the dumb guy. (Bale's Batman is a dummy) Burton's expressionistic Batman films are just as much films as the Nolan ones. They're obviously less interested in realism but dive deeper into the weirdness of the psychology of their characters, which the Nolan films back away from, and seem nervous of. Anyway, that's my opinion. Enjoyed the discussion. PS. Keaton is the best Batman, obviously.
Peter Campbell
2018-09-01 22:25:13 +0000 UTCYeah but Karl Urban is already the perfect Judge Dredd. Undisputed great interpretation.
Peter Campbell
2018-09-01 22:10:17 +0000 UTCSorry.
Marcus Brown
2018-09-01 20:52:25 +0000 UTCHahaha.
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-01 19:14:25 +0000 UTCYeah, I could see that.
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-01 19:14:19 +0000 UTCMy obsession with Bane is the #1 reason.
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-01 19:14:02 +0000 UTCArkham was my first Batman game since Sunsoft Batman, so I missed it.
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-01 19:13:42 +0000 UTCHonestly, what Nolan could or would do with Superman would intrigue me, because I truly feel it's impossible to make Superman grounded, or even cool.
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-01 19:13:23 +0000 UTCThat's THREE comments, Marcus.
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-01 19:12:59 +0000 UTCThey absolutely will. They're superior.
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-01 19:12:51 +0000 UTC=)
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-01 19:12:41 +0000 UTCCan everyone stop talking about how they were children when Batman Begins came out? It's making me feel old.
Colin Moriarty
2018-09-01 19:12:37 +0000 UTCSo how do we get a new Patreon tier where Colin records parallel audio for every show with one being his normal voice and one being done in Bane voice? You’re a big guy!
Kevin Sullivan
2018-08-31 20:55:03 +0000 UTCAwesome episode, gents! I agree with you guys that Ben Affleck actually is a solid Batman. If I was casting Batman/Bruce Wayne, personally I would go with Karl Urban.
Justin Matkowski
2018-08-31 19:25:52 +0000 UTCI completely forgot he was in Monster's Ball.
Joe Bellotta
2018-08-31 12:16:28 +0000 UTCI love The Dark Knight, for me it’s the best superhero movie; (second being The Amazing Spider-Man from 2012). Btw. Batman Begins the video game was really good game, very innovative for its time actually. I feel the Arkham games was inspired by it but rocksteady just took it to another level and nailed the execution a lot better. (Tho it took several games before we got the bat mobile back which was present in Batman Begins video game).
Philip Andersen
2018-08-31 12:04:08 +0000 UTCWhich characters would you have loved to see Nolan tackle?
Daniel Rivas
2018-08-31 06:29:03 +0000 UTCAlso I love The Dark Knight Rises as well as the Bane character. For me it's Dark Knight, Rises, then Begins but all of them are still master work.
Marcus Brown
2018-08-31 02:29:00 +0000 UTCI feel like once Superhero films go the way of the Western, this trilogy will stand the test of time still. It’s a shame they never kept the Nolan universe as the thread for the DC films today. The only DC content as of right now I actually thought was good was the Telltale games and that’s only because you can tell they were inspired by the Nolan trilogy, (changing plot points and making some villains more grounded than before).
Murray. M
2018-08-31 01:41:33 +0000 UTCThank you so much for reading my comment during the discussion that's really awesome. It's so unexpected and cool.
Marcus Brown
2018-08-31 01:39:59 +0000 UTCThis is definitely one of the greatest trilogies of all time. A purely original tale of a superhero icon. I saw Batman Begins in theaters when I was 10 years old, and I will never forget it. There's so many moments, and stories to tell about this impactful series I can go all day. Great show I loved it!
Marcus Brown
2018-08-31 01:07:46 +0000 UTCI dunno that I really need to see fights. It almost feels right to me, in the context of Nolan's grounded universe, that the fights would be boring, and almost much ado about nothing. It's the lead-up that matters.
Colin Moriarty
2018-08-31 00:53:39 +0000 UTCI don't know the source enough well enough to know, so I like what he brought to the table.
Colin Moriarty
2018-08-31 00:53:13 +0000 UTCThe only thing about the Nolan trilogy that is lacking are the fights. BvS with all its faults had the best fight scene out of any Batman movie. It had a certain weight to it that was palpable
Andrew
2018-08-31 00:10:56 +0000 UTCWe can agree on that.
Chris B
2018-08-30 23:11:26 +0000 UTCIt was by far the least canon like Joker, but it worked in the context of the film.
Jean-Francois Forsey
2018-08-30 22:58:25 +0000 UTCReally enjoyed brokeback and did not expect to
Jean-Francois Forsey
2018-08-30 22:57:53 +0000 UTCIt’s hard for me to separate the films , bc they feel less like independent films and more of three acts in one story. It must be stated how amazing it was to see the famous cover of Batman getting back broken on the big screen. Even a decade on Ledger’s joker performance still feels wrong. It was great but he felt more like a sociopath and not really the Joker.
Chris B
2018-08-30 22:47:05 +0000 UTCI think you all might have forgotten that Heath Ledger's jump from teen hearthrob actor to serious Oscarworthy contender was first in Monster's Ball and of course his Best Actor Nomination for Brokeback Mountain. To the producers of the Dark Knight, I would say that Ledger as indeed a known quantity.
Monday Busque
2018-08-30 20:14:43 +0000 UTCInterstellar is definitely one of my fav movies ever. Hans Zimmer's musical score for the film is so great and perfectly captures the atmosphere of the film.
Joe Bellotta
2018-08-30 20:02:53 +0000 UTCHahahahaha gotem
Tyson Williams
2018-08-30 19:48:22 +0000 UTCHaha that’s a good point, but I think he’d especially make an excellent Bruce Wayne.
Will Hahn
2018-08-30 19:26:09 +0000 UTCIndeed. I had no idea he had it in him, and I actually enjoyed some of his previous work (e.g. The Patriot).
Colin Moriarty
2018-08-30 19:19:36 +0000 UTCI'm not sure I can unsee Don Draper.
Colin Moriarty
2018-08-30 19:19:18 +0000 UTCYou're very welcome! As a lifelong fan of the property, I hope you enjoy what we had to say.
Colin Moriarty
2018-08-30 19:19:08 +0000 UTCGood news: You don't have to. LOL.
Colin Moriarty
2018-08-30 19:18:42 +0000 UTCPerhaps he's wondering...
Colin Moriarty
2018-08-30 19:18:34 +0000 UTCInterstellar, breh.
Colin Moriarty
2018-08-30 19:18:25 +0000 UTCYou see, you have no taste.
Colin Moriarty
2018-08-30 19:18:17 +0000 UTCI’ll always remember when we learned that Heath Ledger was cast as The Joker. I remember distinctly all the comment sections and what not laughing at the casting. Even I thought it was going to be a dud. “The 10 Things I Hate About You guy?” (Nothing against that movie, I absolutely adore that movie) He proved everyone wrong. What an amazing performance. RIP
Zack E
2018-08-30 18:38:21 +0000 UTCWhat is Jon Hamm played the next Batman? That would be awesome.
Will Hahn
2018-08-30 16:47:25 +0000 UTCDKR felt like half of it was greatest hits of Batman Begins and DK, and then the other half was just weird and not up to par. It’s a decent movie, just unfortunately is grouped with two great movies.
Zack E
2018-08-30 16:43:00 +0000 UTCI believe that the feeling you feel towards Dark Knight is exactly what they were looking to do. It is an uncomfortable movie to watch, and they really did execute it probably as well as you can execute a movie like that. Even the musical score is uncomfortable and unsettling. Absolute shame it did not get a nomination for Best Picture.
Zack E
2018-08-30 16:40:29 +0000 UTCThe Prestige as well.
Joe Bellotta
2018-08-30 16:25:10 +0000 UTCRight up my alley. I've been a total Batman nut since I was 3 years old, so, 39 years now. I love these movies so much, but I do have my complaints. First, Bale's Batman voice progressed to be too over the top, almost unintelligible. Second, The Dark Knight is almost too dark for me. I know that's just me, and maybe it's because of Heath Ledger's passing, but at times I feel like the film is borderline uncomfortable to watch, like I feel something uneasy in my innards for some reason. Thanks Colin and Dagan!
Jason Stafford
2018-08-30 16:17:05 +0000 UTCI cannot wait for this.
Will Hahn
2018-08-30 16:16:30 +0000 UTC*muffled bane voice* YES BROTHER!
Craig Carter
2018-08-30 16:10:07 +0000 UTCWhat is Batman's favorite part of a joke? The "punch" line.
Petre Cismigiu
2018-08-30 16:08:17 +0000 UTCAlso another Chris Nolan movie, Memento is easily one of my favorite movies ever as well
Tyson Williams
2018-08-30 16:08:11 +0000 UTCI rewatched DKR recently because my dad wanted to, god I really dislike this movie like more than I remember. I really love the first half hour or so tho. I watch Dark Knight all the time, I really really really love that movie
Tyson Williams
2018-08-30 16:07:08 +0000 UTCWhat happens when Batman sees Catwoman? The dark knight rises.
Petre Cismigiu
2018-08-30 16:06:52 +0000 UTC
