Fireside Chats, Episode 65: The Mormon Perspective

Had to go back to listen to this. Happy to see so many fellow Mormon subscribers.

Brad

Thanks Mrs. Moriarty - and I again I must credit you as a parent for having raised such an amazing son in Colin (and I assume the rest of your children are equally wonderful people - I get to hear a little of Dagan as well on their Knockback show - fun stuff). Merry Christmas!

Thanks, ma! Glad you enjoyed it. <3

Colin Moriarty

What a great conversation. The Church of Latter Day Saints totally intrigues me (as do some other religions) so I found this very interesting. I feel that most religions think that ‘the others’ have it wrong. My personal belief is that there’s only one God and we do our best to ‘reach’ him in a way that feels right to us as individuals. It’s by faith we believe (or not) in the first place. Just my two cents. Nicely done, gentlemen.

BettyAnn Moriarty

The Family, Software development, Network Administration, and finding time to play games, mostly. I read what other people post but try not to spend much attention on the parts related to religion. More interesting to look at the philosophical bits instead of how it pertains to religion or the lack thereof.

Kaz Redclaw

Yeah, I feel ya. You definitely did a good job showcasing what just a normal LDS member is like/feels/believes, and dispelled kind of that "mormons are all 'holier than thou" perception I'm sure we've both run into too often. Although....perhaps Utah mormons are a little bit too much "holier than thou" ;)

Matt Simnitt

What do you prefer to worry about? Do you consider existential conditions that affect day to day life outside of the "construct" of religion? I'm genuinely curious.

I'm in the camp of "no active belief, no active forceful disbelief" camp. Penn Jillette says that all it takes to be atheist is the lack of active belief, so under that definition I would count. Personally, I'd rather spend my time doing other things than worrying about religion or the lack thereof.

Kaz Redclaw

Thanks for listening and for the feedback.

That is pretty funny...

I like that his description of why Joseph Smith ended up founding the church matches fairly closely with the joke about competing standards in computing. <a href="https://xkcd.com/927/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://xkcd.com/927/</a>

Kaz Redclaw

I really enjoyed the fact that you broke down the stereotype of Mormans thinking they have it right as "wanting the best for others". That's absolutely something I can get behind and never heard it discussed in that way. Thank you for sharing your perspectives with us!

Korey Burns

Hi Korey - cool. I know most people "side" with Colin. I wasn't intending to convince him or anyone else. I was only there to articulate some things that I don't think have been articulated well in the public sphere... one of which is we're a broad range of personalities and that more often than not we're not the eccentric type of fanatic frequently associated with people whose beliefs require stricter behavioral conformity to a few things. The other big thing was that as you're wife noted with the rarity of civility in disagreement I feel/have felt that people would assume Mormon's sit in a place of self righteous judgment that leads to hate and the vast majority of the time, that is not the case and even when it is the case, those individuals violate the doctrine and how we've been taught to regard other people both by scripture and in modern teachings.

My wife came home last night while I was listening to this episode and commented how rare it is to hear people having civil discussions anymore. I side with Colin on a lot of his issues with the Morman faith, but also learned many things I never knew about it before listening. Thanks for a great episode!

Korey Burns

Thanks Adam. I think an issue Utah has is one that any group lacking intellectual or religious diversity has... hearing your thoughts echoed over and over makes it harder to process or even tolerate others. SF, for example has its own echo chamber. That’s why I think what Colin does (and Joe Rogan for another example) is SOOOOO important... give time for other opinions to be heard, but if you notice if Colin doesn’t agree with something, he doesn’t give an inch or compromise what he believes is right... he holds onto it but also maintains respectful dialogue. I’d evangelize Colin and people like him about as much as I would my religious beliefs (in the appropriate forum, of course).

Hi Matt ... thanks. Yeah there was one question where I misunderstood what he meant. He asked about the church and meant the institution, but when I think of the church I think of the people which caused some confusion for me at one point. When I listened back to it I noticed at least one or two similar instances. BUT the two things I really hoped would come across is that we (Mormons) are just regular people with the same broad range of personalities as anyone else, just that we really believe the things we say we believe... but that also our beliefs don’t put us in a place of judgment or hatred but rather just a responsibility to be honest when approached and to try and share the blessings. Those were the only 2 things I really wanted to get across. Everything else... not enough hours in a single day to do it justice.

Hi Lou... I’m aware that we just touched the surface on a lot of topics. If you want to run questions by me- please hit me up. Here or DM me on Twitter @imjamesmonzello

Hats off to you James for doing this, and to you Colin for having him on your show, I enjoyed it. I'm also a member of the LDS church, and I really don't mean this as an insult or a knock or anything, but even to me you were sometimes confusing, James(again, all due respect). A lot of the times your answers didn't seem to follow logically to the question that Colin asked, and you were kind of half answering the question, half talking about something else. Still, appreciate you both taking the time to do this :D

Matt Simnitt

This might get buried being a late comment but the topic was so robust I sometimes found myself in a Land of Confusion while listening....I’m sorry I’m unable to resist band-related puns (ie. anytime Genesis is brought up in religion). 😜 Seriously though, not a topic I thought I’d be too interested in but turns out I was. I’m Catholic and believe in God but as an adult I think of my religion as guiding my principles and morals rather than a literal biblical interpretation. Like in broad terms we live in a time right now where it seems like the push is for everything to be acceptable no matter how weird or destructive, and honestly no not everything is acceptable. Not in terms of LGBT or that which I’m pro, live and let live. But the everything’s offensive, let’s all be moral police while crying for respect and simultaneously giving none, etc. - I think the good teachings religion can provide. Anywho, my point there is that the talk was interesting and super dense and respectful on both sides. I really dig the community here. Well done to you & James! 👍

Luke Tucker

Hey James and Colin, Just wanted to say it was a great episode and I'm always super fascinated to hear members talk about the religion who aren't from utah. The attitude here is always a little more entitled and judgmental and to see that this isn't endemic of the faith, but of the region, is refreshing. Thank you for sharing.

Adam carruth

After listening to the socialist episode of CLS (which was fantastic btw), I was very very excited to check out this episode and another one centered around the different beliefs or walks of life. I sadly did not enjoy this episode almost at all however. I just personally felt like (and I appear to be in the minority on this one I think) I didn't get almost a single straight answer on any of the questions. Maybe it's my own interpretation of what was said, but it really just felt like a lot of start/stop answers that just went over to something that just made me ask another question and the cycle continued while never getting a direct answer to any one question (some hyperbole I imagine, but that is how I feel right now finishing it up as I type). Maybe I'm too literal, maybe I'm too much of a robot and love 1's and 0's...who knows. Oh well, I'm still glad it happened AND I hope that someone got something out of it that was useful for them. Okay, now I have to get back to the other episodes I've missed. :)

Lou & Rei Loper

Thanks!

From a former morman living in Utah, everything James said was pretty accurate, thanks for representing buddy

Riley Smith

And by product of environment I don't mean they choose it I mean it happened after birth someone that affected their sexuality. If the conversation is between choose or birth birth is going to win because the idea that they would choose being gay is utterly dumb.

Tyler Bello

Well I say that cause there is some articles and studies to suggest product of environment as oppose to being gay, either way though absolutely embrace a person as they are no doubt about it.

Tyler Bello

Tyler, I think the science (and psychology) pretty clearly points to a natural link to homosexuality. It's the consensus that you're born gay, and knowing -- until recently -- how society treats them, why would anyone choose that life? You are who you are, and we should embrace that.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you! And I agree; I love the diversity of this audience, and of the guests on Fireside Chats.

Colin Moriarty

Well, I'm glad that your own personal experience was a positive one, anyway. =D

Colin Moriarty

Looking at these comments shows just how diverse the CLS fan base is and I love it. Another great episode, Colin.

Michael Raymond

Brigham - if Colin doesn't respond to this comment he maybe didn't see it? Hit him on his Patreon DM, I know he sees all those and probably would like to speak to someone that can get into the knitty gritty historical details.

Ima just argue one perspective of homosexuality and religion from my Christian perspective. I am a socially liberal conservative just like you I'm for gay marriage etc etc but here is my religious take. So during the fall of adam and eve I believe is when free will was introduced, now I say that because before the apple it seemed as if they would be able to live a perfect sin-free life. The same time free will was created was the same time evil was created. If beings have free will they have the ability to do and create evil. I also don't believe anyone is born gay.. I think it would be ridiculous to suggest a baby knows who it wants to have sex with. I think you are as in every thing else in life a product of your environment. A lot of homosexuals share similar circumstances whatever it may be, perhaps a overly anti gay household, perhaps lack of father figure etc. (not always negative, not saying its a affliction.) But essentially when you are a product of your environment, you are a product of someone else's choice's and free will, and if you are a product of someone else's free will then its still man who created homosexuals. Anyway just my perspective on things! Figured Id give my two cents! Good episode as always Colin!

Tyler Bello

Also, Colin, the head Professor of Mormon Studies at the University of Virginia goes to my ward and I could help you get an appointment with her for a future fireside chat. She has published a lot about Mormon history in America and could likely answer any question you have regarding Mormonism.

Brigham Bangerter

great episode! I'm also mormon, and it's cool to see there are a lot of Latter-Day Saints that are Colin fans too! I can only speak for myself, but based on my experiences I've always felt the LDS church was relatively progressive (until the recent situation regarding LGBT+ rights). I come from a mixed family (my mom is from Haiti and dad is from Utah) and grew up in rural Texas. I always felt like people at my church treated us all like equals. Growing up, I've had experiences where people treated me differently because I'm half black, like parents not letting me date their daughters because I'm "tainted". Everyone at my church though always treated me and my family as equals and skin color never factored into anything. This could just be one of those things I notice because I am mix, but I do notice a lot of mixed families in the LDS Church and it's really awesome to see. That being said, I'm sure there are some racist douche-bag Mormons out there, I just wanted to share this because a lot of people have this assumption that the LDS church is racist because black people could not get the Priesthood until the 70s, which is a whole other thing but this post is long enough haha

Brigham Bangerter

You have to look at that verse from the perspective of Paul. The Corinthians were known to be heavily influenced. I believe there was some religion close by (I forget the name) that was baptizing the dead, so most likely the Corinthians were influenced. Also, look at what Paul says " If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?". He uses the word "people" or "They" not "we". Christians did not practice in baptizing the dead but the pagans did.

Tyler

Hi Tyler, early Christians practiced baptism for the dead. It's mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:29 Also - being "mormon" is not an automatic exaltation to Godhood. And all the "non-mormon's" will have an equal opportunity to partake of the same. That's what our temple work is about - performing ordinances so that the entire host of the human family can realize their full potential as literal offspring of God, the Father.

Santa Claus killed my father.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

An author can write multiple stories. Infinite stories, even. If the author is claiming his or her work to be non-fiction, though, then there is only one actual telling of said event.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

I understand that as a Christian you should want to do good works. However it states that Salvation is release from the guilt and power of sin through God's gift of grace which is provided through Christ's atonement. With personal faith in Christ as Savior and Lord you are saved. You will be judged off your works in life however it isn't something that will prevent you from entering paradise. Mormons believe that Jesus's atonement has provided immortality for everyone but Exaltation is only there for Mormons which is by following LDS teachings. Mormons believe that they will become gods, they will have everything that the Father (God) and the Son (Jesus) have, and baptism for the dead grants salvation for non-mormons. Non Mormons, like myself who is a Christian, does not believe that.

Tyler

Hi Tyler, We do believe that salvation comes through Jesus Christ. We do not believe a person is saved by works. But we do believe faith without works is empty. Jesus said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” That’s the main driver behind our focus on works. Not to mention that life and the world would just be better if we all behaved better... nicer, more charitable. Some of us actively work on and cultivate empathy and compassion within. And some are disingenuous... the ideals are one thing but when rubber hits road you still have the whole range of problematic behavior as any other group of people.

Just to be clear Mormonism is not Christianity. Mormons believe vastly different things. They believe salvation is through good works that is why Mormons are always nice and charitable. Christianity believes salvation comes through believing in Jesus Christ as lord and savior. That’s just one of many things.

Tyler

That bit with Santa was so funny. I was like 'what sort of messed up/dark story will he bring up?' turns out James didn't want to ruin some kid's Christmas 😂

tejotl

This was a great episode to listen to guys...

Nic

Just a good natured snarky question Colin based on your closing statements about Genesis being a story and it being all about us/the story of us discounting the possibility of aliens. Can an author not write more than one story? :P These kinds of discussions kill me by the way because I can't participate. I feel like an invisible kid in class raising his hand like hell but the teacher can't see me. LOL

Jason Stafford

Excellent episode!

Ryan Taylor

Hi Mazzic, regarding non-existent historicity of claims in the Book of Mormon, that's not quite true. <a href="https://deseretbook.com/p/book-mormon-archaeology-anthropology-articles-byu-studies-compilation-82888?ref=recommend-product&amp;taxon_id=23997&amp;variant_id=14301-ebook" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://deseretbook.com/p/book-mormon-archaeology-anthropology-articles-byu-studies-compilation-82888?ref=recommend-product&amp;taxon_id=23997&amp;variant_id=14301-ebook</a> <a href="https://deseretbook.com/p/archaeology-book-mormon-milton-r-hunter-78259?variant_id=20248-ebook" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://deseretbook.com/p/archaeology-book-mormon-milton-r-hunter-78259?variant_id=20248-ebook</a> <a href="https://deseretbook.com/p/science-book-mormon-various-authors-82937?ref=recommend-product&amp;variant_id=14176-ebook" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://deseretbook.com/p/science-book-mormon-various-authors-82937?ref=recommend-product&amp;variant_id=14176-ebook</a> There are people who have put in the time and work to connect as many dots empirically as possible. You may be inclined to discount most of this because they're authored by members of the Church, but that would be equivalent to me rejecting your sources because they're not members of the Church. As for the remainder of your comments leading to the Church falling into heterodoxy, I understand why you think or see things that way. The only extra food for your thought I would offer you is that while academic study is quite valuable, the truth about God can only come from God himself and so you should add prayer to your toolbox and allow God to instruct you in His method with which way to lean... outside of that we're all just allowing biases to choose the narrative most agreeable to us. Of course, I recognize and respect that you have no obligation to me to even consider anything I've said.

Hi Jason - I don't think you or your described practices are weird at all. Are you a 7th Day Adventist? Related? I don't know much about them other than they're Christian and have Sabbath on Saturday.

Thanks Cody. For me, I was not so much trying to convince as explain. The main things I wish people could have taken away is that we're a whole range of personalities and interests like everyone else, that belief is not a sign of fanaticism and more than anything I wish to remove enmity and animosity between disagreeing parties and affect how conversations can be held.

This was super interesting for a weirdo like me who just likes learning about different things. Plus, I can sympathize as most Christian sects look at me like I'm a weirdo. I follow the written Torah (7th day Sabbath, no pagan holidays, kosher, etc.) But also believe Yeshua (Jesus) was the Messiah. Trust me, I get a lot of dirty looks in the South when I don't go to church on Sunday and turn down the bacon and shrimp! Thanks for giving us enlightening conversations Colin! Man, I sometimes really wish we had forums here on Patreon. I bet we fans could have some killer respectful discussions.

Jason Stafford

This was a really engaging episode. I know it must be difficult to toe the line between respectful disagreement and argument, and both of you did a great job of doing so without backing down from your positions. -Cody

Cody Howell

As someone academically trained in Biblical Studies and history (Ancient Near East, classical, and Medeival) and a devout orthodox Christian who moved in January in Utah, I found this to be quite fascinating and interesting. Also, I give Colin All The Prop™ for using Pentateuch. Historically there are numerous historically verifiable data points from the Old Testament and New Testament - the historicity of the claims in the Book of Mormon is...well, non-existent. The notion that Jews paddled over to America and became the Native Americans, the description of animals native to Europe and never present in America prior to Columbus (something Smith clearly was entirely unaware of), and the fact we have many of the Egyptian papyri Joseph Smith "translated" (before Rosetta and anyone could translate them) and none of them remotely correspond to the Testament of Abraham. The rejection of the Trinity, the rejection of church history (hence the Great Apostacy and Restoration), and the belief that Heavenly Father was once a man and ascended to his position of godhood (and the notion that others can follow that path of progression)put the LDS church firmly outside the boundaries of orthodox Christianity and into heterodoxy (that is, something that appears like Christianity but rejects the essence of it), akin to Marcionism, Arianism, Nestorianism, Gnosticism (of the syncretistic, second-century and onward strain), Catharism, Bogomilism, Jehovah Witnesses, and yes, Christan Science.

Micheal Boudreaux

I'm in and out, hit me and I'll keep an eye out and respond as soon as I can

Mormon gamers, apparently. =D

Colin Moriarty

I'm sorry to hear that. =\

Colin Moriarty

I want to have someone on who can talk more about the 19th century Mormon founding, the Gold Plates, etc., because that's honestly the stuff I have the most trouble with. It's unbelievable.

Colin Moriarty

These are my favorite kinds of conversations. Glad this one resonated.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you! Another religious episode (with a theology PhD) will go live in December. =)

Colin Moriarty

Current Mormons, former Mormons. Lots of Mormons here at CLS! =D

Colin Moriarty

Thank you! I had no idea I had so many Mormon listeners.

Colin Moriarty

It's good of you to be open-minded.

Colin Moriarty

Thanks for listening!

Colin Moriarty

Is CLS most popular in Utah? =D

Colin Moriarty

It does seem that way. I'll allow it!

Colin Moriarty

It's certainly an interesting sect.

Colin Moriarty

Wow, there are a lot of you here! LOL.

Colin Moriarty

Hope you enjoy!

Colin Moriarty

Would like to ask a few questions James if your still available ??

Matthew Perry

Damn Colin what in the world is your demographic?

There’s No I in LLC

Unfortunately I had a bad experience with coming head to head with the mormon faith that involved my best friend and it has left a inconsolable believe that no good can come of this faith :-( but I will always leave myself open minded and approachable to different opinions so look forward to the discussion

Matthew Perry

James, fellow Mormon (member of the Church of LDS blah blah) here. You did a great job, certainly better than I think I could have done.

Steve Neeley

Serving a mission is different for everyone. Some like it, some hate it.... I had to go home early because Depression and Anxiety went nuclear because I didn't have any of the coping mechanisms I had at home.

Hey Fellow CLS Patrons. I'm the James, Colin shared his airtime with. If there's anything you'd like to run by/ask/say feel free to respond here or hit me on Twitter @Imjamesmonzello or if messaging works between Patrons through Patreon? Also - if you're curious my avatar is Randal from Clerks 2 because he's my Spirit-Movie-Character. His personality and sense of humor is closer to what I'm like in real life except that one of us is Mormon and the other isn't. (I even worked at video rental stores when they still existed - Hollywood Video and Blockbuster )

I think it would be cool to focus on the culture of it, rather than beliefs. Like what its like to be in utah, what its like to serve a mission, what its like to live with three values.

Andrew Christensen

Loved this. We should have more mormons on the show, because I think there is a lot more to discuss. I have become somewhat disillusioned with stuff in the church, but still love it's principles and what it stands for, which is community and family.

Andrew Christensen

I really dig that you have guests like this on! When you don’t agree on everything, that brings some very interesting discussions usually.

Marius Skarsem Pedersen

I’m afraid they disagree because Christ is fundamental to their doctrine

Tyson Williams

While I can appreciate many of the values of the LDS Church, Mormons are not Christians and aren't recognized as such by most (if not all) Christian denominations. This is just my pet peeve as I get frustrated by that miscommunication every time. I look forward to hearing the episode, Colin.

Alex Castellanos

I'm an LDS convert. I'm happy to hear there are other LDS people who listen to Colin. Colin, I love how you are open to hearing lots of points of views on various topics and that you are able to have an unbiased discussion/chat. I think the world would be a better place if everyone was open to hearing people's beliefs and ideas with out feeling threatened to their own beliefs. Keep up the great work Colin!

Michael Mendoza

As a former Mormon, lookin forward to listening

Will Caldwell

Although not mormon I was raised mormon but I appreciate the exposure of the ideologies I was raised in, since I was raised in it I don’t find the doctrine itself fascinating like I do about other religions but I like seeing others learn about it. I have a lot of hang ups with the church but my best friend is mormon and pretty much all of my family is as well, love em to death.

Tyson Williams

As a Mormon convert this is very interesting. Kinda nice knowing there’s others who partake in CLS. Much love, Colin <3

Red Head Redemption

Glad to see I’m not the only Mormon listening to Colin.

Steve hamilton

Another Mormon listener here. Seems you have quite a few Mormon fans, Colin.

Steve Neeley

And here I thought i was going crazy lol. Can't wait to listen.

Marcus Brown

Very excited about this episode. My mother in law is a Mormon and was just on an 18 month mission to North Dakota after her house burned down a few months prior. The conversations I have with her are pretty wild and I appreciate the way Mormons take personal responsibility for their relationship with God as opposed to going through an intermediary.

Forrest Hunter

Another LDS guy here. Stoked to listen

Campbell Jones

Oh wow. I’m another LDS patron. Excited to listen to this.

Ethan Wolfe

Sorry for the slight lateness! I wanted to listen to something in the show, never got around to it, and then forgot to set it to publish. Enjoy!

Colin Moriarty