Fireside Chats, Episode 69: Theological Intrigue

Signed in today specifically(!!) to comment that this was a PHENOMENAL episode, phenomenal. This is EXACTLY what I was looking for with the Mormon episode, it just wasn't the right guy (no offense to him) for the job of explaining it to me. We both listened to this one separately and it was just ughhhh....more of this stuff, freaking gold.

Lou & Rei Loper

Something I always struggle to grapple with is this: If humanity is inherently flawed, why would God entrust a perfect message to an imperfect being? The transcription of the Bible occurred ~40 years after the death of Jesus. Is it really plausible that the message didn’t change over 40 years of oral tradition? Food for thought.

I totally agree. Believe or not, you can learn a thing or two, particularly from the New Testament. (The Old Testament is a bit out of control.)

Colin Moriarty

Thank you so much! Fireside Chats began as a passion project, and I'm so glad it's found such an awesome audience that enjoys what I'm trying to do!

Colin Moriarty

Thank you for taking the time to write that up. I have much to look into! I don't know that anyone is going to be able to change my mind on Genesis, though. Like I've said many times, now: It seems like a lot of goalpost-moving to me.

Colin Moriarty

My main thing is that people wrote the bible. Clearly. And I think it's merely stories handed down orally, and eventually written, and likely rewritten, and so on and so forth. I take no issue with faith; I simply don't see what there is to have faith in, aside from something people wrote thousands of years ago, with predicted -- but ultimately unknown -- provenance. That's always been a big hang up for me, and I assume it always will be.

Colin Moriarty

This was a fantastic episode. I recently got into Jordan Peterson's analysis of the main biblical stories (adam and eve, good and evil, cain and abel, etc) and it was cool to hear about the same thing from a theologian(??). It's fulfilling to find out where so much of our ethics and morality as cultural christians comes from - that I used to take for granted. There is so much fucking wisdom to be gleaned from the bible, whether we are believers or not. Good job bringing Michael on.

Michal Dudic

Must say, the fireside chats lately have been absolutely top notch. I have really related to them because of where I come from, living in a former Soviet Union country growing up, being raised Southern Baptist, and being politically involved. Thank you for making content that is relatable and educational.

He's very smart, and he's welcome back any time.

Colin Moriarty

Not if I see you first!

Colin Moriarty

It's fascinating that intelligent people can think so deeply and thoroughly about religion and creation and still come up with different conclusions so confidently. Makes me wonder if its something genetic or physiological that influences to what degree someone is willing to believe in religion. The thing that kills Christianity for me is the lack of divine inspiration I see in the Bible. There is nothing about it that indicates to me that it wasn't written by various human minds of the time. Everything from its geocentrism, time specificity, inconsistencies, and obvious inspirations from local predating religions and stories like Zoroastrianism/Judaism and flood myths indicate to me that the Bible is essentially just a natural evolution of human ideas. I think the emergence of subsequent related religions like Islam and Mormonism are really representative of how religions can emerge and flourish without any sort of divine events.

desperateLuck

Haven't listened yet (will comment when I do), but as someone who's been privileged to call Steiney one of my best friends for the past 15 years, I can't wait to hear these worlds collide. He introduced me to GOG way back when and so it's nice to see all of this come full circle. Glad yall had a good conversation, he knows his shit.

Jeremy Echols

Not trying to be a dick honestly but this guys sounds delusional at times, but i appreciate the conversation, see you in Hell buddy and keep up the great work!

David Kramme

That's certainly one totally valid way of looking at it. =)

Colin Moriarty

Very interesting episode (I had never heard of the Southern Babdists) but I think when someone has to say "That was a roundabout way of answering your question" it means they didn't actually answer anything.

Dan Parsons

Well, all stars theoretically orbit black holes. There are supermassive black holes, as far as we can tell, at the center of every spiral galaxy. The "day" isn't the only problem with Genesis. The order of operations -- that the planet was made before the star, for instance -- is also an issue. The universe is expanding at the speed of light away from us (we can tell by the red shift of luminous objects) so I don't think Genesis works at all.

Colin Moriarty

Hey Colin I've always wanted to offer up a few view points to you on two of your different view points on this. 1. Why isn't space and other planets in the bible, and 2. Science has told us so much. On the first point of view Id say the bible keeps us on a very need to know bases. 2. We think we know so much in science but in reality we probably barely know anything. The whole part of you saying that we have to make excuses for genesis, I'd argue that the only real variable is a day. There is a theory that our solar system and a few surrounding us are all orbiting a big black hole, Ive also heard the theory that the entire universe revolves around one big black hole, and I that were the case wouldn't that make up 1 cosmic day? Who knows how long that is or how long that took.

Tyler Bello

Thank you! =)

Colin Moriarty

Great talk. Dude dropping CS Lewis ... hell yes.

Brogan Wassell

I guess we've just gotta do better as CLS listeners to get out the Good Word of Colin Moriarty and hope that we can get an even broader cross section of potential Fireside Chats guests.....

I'd love to have representatives from all sorts of religions on Fireside Chats, and all would be welcome... but they'd need to volunteer, first. =)

Colin Moriarty

This was a good one. I really enjoyed how Michael explained a number of things. I would also love for a practicing Muslim to go on with Colin and go into the depths of their beliefs. For that matter it would be great to also get a practicing Jew. I've met a few people from Israel who happened to be on polar ends of belief and I'd like to hear from someone who can go in depth about a few things but then also speak to the various cultures within the belief which it seems more than other belief systems to be synonymous with their ethnic group. Also - Eastern religions... example Buddhism. I remember seeing a special with Julia Sweeney who explained she practiced Buddhism for a while, until she went to Asia and found that what made it's way to the US was watered down or changed (that was her take)... so someone that could get in depth on that as well.

That would be blind faith

BettyAnn Moriarty

This was both fascinating and enlightening. And I must say that Michael is not only a scholar but vey gentlemanly when speaking to a non- believer. Such a great, respectful conversation between men with opposing views and beliefs. I’d love to hear his views on ‘near death experiences ‘ and a deep conversation about ‘bluns faith’. IMO, there’s so much more out there, in heavenly terms. 😉 I wish I could pick his brain - and yours... for hours on end.

BettyAnn Moriarty

Very Sam Harris-esque! Would be a fun topic.

Colin Moriarty

I think it's completely true, and this is what I'm talking about, about the constant goalpost moving over the last 2,000 years in regard to Christianity. The Bible -- and those who have represented it over the years -- have gotten so much wrong. Enormous amounts wrong, in fact. So why would we believe any of it?

Colin Moriarty

It's certainly good to challenge oneself and one's interpretation of reality (and your beliefs). Glad this podcast could be a conduit for that.

Colin Moriarty

Not if I see you first.

Colin Moriarty

I would love that. If anyone reading this thinks that person can be you, DM me!

Colin Moriarty

Yeah. For me, at some point, it all rather obviously begins to break down. I try to remain open-minded (and I am), but in reality, I'm a tried-and-true atheist. I just don't see it. That said, I'm glad to talk about it with smart and informed people.

Colin Moriarty

I've read a bit about that sect recently. Very interesting. Would love to have someone on to talk about it.

Colin Moriarty

Thanks for the recommendations! I will certainly investigate Mr. Keller.

Colin Moriarty

I would love that! Any ideas?

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, I'd love to get some other religions on here, but that would require people to step up to the plate!

Colin Moriarty

Just keep your hands on the wheel. =)

Colin Moriarty

That's super interesting. I actually don't know anything about that, so I'll have to read! Thank you for listening. =)

Colin Moriarty

Colin I don't know exactly where you stand on the subject but I'd love to hear a conversation about hallucinogenic substances such as DMT or ayahuasca and how they challenge both science and classic religion

Landan Reich

I would say your statement about life somewhere else proves god doesn’t exist is partly true, I think sentient life somewhere else proves the Biblical version of god doesn’t exist but it doesn’t disapprove or prove the concept of there being a deity or deities

Tyson Williams

I really enjoyed this episode. As a believer myself it's a good wake up call to challenge my beliefs and be able to discuss them at an intellectual level with people who don't share your opinions. Too many times I see people that even agree with me not think for themselves and just believe what they have been taught their whole life.

strawhatninja

Enjoyed this episode. I am a non-believer and this guest didn't change this view in the slightest but it was, as always, interesting to hear another point of view. Anyway, see you in hell.

Peter Campbell

Hope you can find an Islamic guest to come on. (Preferably one who is practicing)

Andrew Christensen

Great episode, I think the whole argument for religion is built on a house of cards, it’s so obvious especially when you asked the guest about did god make the comet that killed the dinosaurs? Yep? Then why did he make them to begin with? While I whole heartedly disagree with the notion of a god or a creator I love calm, collected and rational conversation about it and thats what you delivered! Nice work Colin!

Ryan Taylor

Hey Colin! I loved this episode! I know in the past you have expressed your love of reading and there are some really great presuppositional apologetics books out there that address a lot of your skepticism about the Christian faith. My go-to recommendations are "Making Sense of God" and "The Reason for God", both by Timothy Keller. The purpose of these books are to not only show why the belief in God is rational, but also to show that both the scientific worldview and Christian worldview require equal amounts of both faith and reason. Tim has done lectures at Google about both of these books and you can view them on the "Talks at Google" YouTube channel. The lectures give you a general sense of the main premises of both books. You may also enjoy the author Vern Poythress who has written a number of books about how science, mathematics, and logic are not antagonistic to Christian belief. I hope these recommendations can further your pursuit of knowledge.

Really enjoy these topics. I have also struggled with the existence of God myself. I find these episodes very interesting. If you ever have a chance I would suggest interviewing another Christian group known as Seventh Day Adventist. I think you would find their interpretation of the Bible very interesting and also very different from many Christian teachings today.

I think you would be interested in Islamic theology, Colin. Different history as well. Would love you to have a Muslim guest on.

Ahmed Mohamed

If you get some time you should listen to Alan Watts. He was a philosopher drawing the metaphorical truths from different cultures and religions. Especially his focus on Hinduism and the Godhead,four faced deity. Also hearing other religions on here would be pretty cool.

There’s No I in LLC

Ho boy. Here's another one where I'll be yelling at the radio the whole ride home. :)

Jason Stafford

Thank you. I will do my best!

Colin Moriarty

Thank you so much, Barrett! I'm glad you enjoyed the episode. I had a fun time recording it.

Colin Moriarty

I don't really want Fireside Chats to be a promotional vehicle within text. If people want to pimp themselves, I encourage them to during the show itself.

Colin Moriarty

great episode, I share many of the same views as you Colin and just can't get outside th knowable scientific thoughts, but love to read on it all and to have open discussion on it all.. I would love to hear more on the Proto orthodox (before right belief) period of the church... I find it fascnating all these early religions that had such differing beliefs all using essentially the same books as evidence supporting their own belief. Take the Marcionites mentioned, they looked at the Jewish god of the old testament who was spiteful and jealous, then they looked at the new testament god of love and came to the rather reasonable assumption that there were two Gods. This was a massive religion for centuries until removed from history by the roman church, once they decided what was the right belief. Then you have the ebonites that believed Jesus was mortal man and merely a prophet whom followed on from Moses, but still essentially Jewish... There were beliefs that god is all of us... then all the books that failed to make the canon of what we consider now to be the bible... there was some books whom believed Jesus had a twin brother called Thomas, or even a few in the early writings that Judas was his twin...what I found so fascinating is how they all used the same passages for the most part to prove their case. Anyway top show and great guest.

Paul Driscoll

Solid episode my dude. I hope you keep on the journey of enlightenment, and betterment.

ActualFlavor

Spectacular episode Colin. I am a Baptist from Kentucky and I thoroughly enjoyed the discussion you and Michael had. Hearing both viewpoints I believe was incredibly constructive. With your background of a religious upbringing and how you came to your thoughts today made me appreciate your honestly and I wanted to thank you and Michael for sharing your thoughts/beliefs with us. I greatly look forward to the next discussion of Revelations if you two get that chance. I hope you have a spectacular end of the year. Cheers to CLS in 2019!

Barrett Boswell

Hey Colin - obviously didn't listen to this one yet but a quick suggestion from my side based on other fireside chats - maybe for those guests who 'want to be found' it would be good to post links in descriptions? Like their websites or profiles etc. Cheerio hope you had a nice rest - can't wait to see how CLS will grow in 2019

tejotl