Fireside Chats, Episode 74: Living With Mental Illness

Ya this was a hard one... But hard conversations are worth having...

Andrew Christensen

I think one reason people with mental illness tend to get along easier with other people with mental illness (depending on the illness) is that there's this understanding there that other people just don't have. Mentally "Healthy" people don't seem to comprehend that the brain can just malfunction, glitch or stop working. But it can... and it's a relief to be able to say to someone "Yeah I was just trying to do X and then my brain went Y and that was it for that... and then I couldn't A, B, or C for [days, weeks, months... sometimes years]."

Sure. I would note though, it's not necessarily a conscious effort.... just an emotionally adapted response.

I'll just point out that even though he says he doesn't care, he takes a lot of actions to prevent people and the world around him from being adversely affected by his condition. I think he *says* he doesn't care to protect himself from the practical reality that his condition is so severe he'll never be able to process his feelings, people and the world in a manner close enough to be considered on the spectrum of normal. I think he cares. I think he cares a lot. But I think if he put that out there he'd have to endure conversations like: PPL - "Don't you care how you affect people!?" Wilson - "Yes." PPL - "Then why do you still [fill in the blank]!?" And the heart breaking answer may very well be his brain doesn't allow him to not [blank]. How painful would it be to live in that conscious reality? Much less painful to "not care."

As I said on the episode with David Jaffe, I couldn't even imaginging quieting my mind for a millisecond, so meditation -- at least for now -- is out of reach for me.

Colin Moriarty

I think you're right that people often put up a front to protect themselves. Hell, I do it in my own life, sometimes.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, he didn't seem too concerned how he came off, and I appreciated his candor a great deal.

Colin Moriarty

I think a lot of people are working through something. I like to think about all of the historic people that might have had issues that (obviously) went undiagnosed. The most famous person I can think of that was definitely off was King George III.

Colin Moriarty

I've had a couple breakdowns and was diagnosed with schizoaffective, but I think I'm more paranoid schizophrenic...but I digress. lol Nah, I've had a wonderful counselor that helped me through much of my mental obstacles. One helpful tool she gave me was the introduction to meditation. It literally pulled me out of a depression one day when everybody and everything was being shitty. But on a side note, one thing I've observed about ppl with mental illnesses is that I tend to get along with ppl who suffer from depression the best b/c I absolutely love ppl who are selfless. They have that state of mind to care for others over themselves, and I value that to the nth degree. So thanks Colin for being so open and thoughtful with your experience. And Chris for accepting a positive outcome.

Not Sure

This is another one that hits home for me. My mental illness is much more on the depression and anxiety side but I can relate to the high level of irritability Wilson describes. Once or twice I've gone off on people in a movie theater... I went through a period so severe I was on disability for almost 2 years. During most of that time if my wife had chosen to leave and take my son I wouldn't have even fought her on it. I even told her that. She stuck around though... then when I was feeling fighty again (not necessarily in a good way) she gave me the get help or get divorced ultimatum. Luckily - I did manage to find a great psychologist and psychiatrist. I was about 30 at the time and had no luck with treatment prior. It was a final down hail mary... it changed my life. Despite what Wilson says, I actually hear a lot of care in what he's describing. I think he's convinced himself he doesn't care as a protective layer because if he were to try and carry the weight of everyone's "I'm offended by you" reactions it would be insurmountable due to the nature of his illness. He needs to not care to maintain a level of sanity. He also reminds me of a friend of mine that constantly offends people and "misbehaves" to test whether or not the people in his life that say they love him, love him unconditionally. Of course, my friend doesn't consciously realize this is what he's doing... but that's what he's doing. I don't know enough to assume that's what it is with Wilson....surface level, that's just what it reminds me of. The other big thing that shows me Wilson cares..... every little thing he does to minimize the effect of his illness on those around him... like getting treatment, taking medicine - even the earbuds at work. All of those things are the actions of someone doing their best to harmonize with the people and world around them.

I have just listened to this , and im sure Wilson will get a hard time because he comes across as a dick ;-) but for people who don't understand living with a mental illness or what that involves in day to day life they just won't get it or whatever you it makes you become !! I suffer from alcoholism and I've been fighting that battle since I was 13 and I know that I have done things and said stuff that the people who are the closest around me have taken affend too and have distance them selfs from me !

Matthew Perry

I wonder how many people would actually be diagnosed if they did a check. Obviously coming from a place of no fucking scientific knowledge it made me wonder how much of that is mental and how much is social. Aren't we seeing an increase across the board when it comes to people who would qualify as 'mentally ill'? The ever changing rules and criteria don't help keeping track of trends but I am very sceptic to just brush this off as 'we just know/see more'. Interesting episode - not in terms of the actual content (as it was just a personal experience) but more in terms of homework it inspired ;) Thank you both for this episode. If it helps Wilson I laughed my balls off at the mother-in-law story.

tejotl

Thank you for listening! I appreciate it.

Colin Moriarty

That's a completely fair takeaway.

Colin Moriarty

That's a good point, but I think it's logical (and reasonable) to wonder if they even have any answers, since psychology, as a science, is woefully underdeveloped, even next to its sister disciplines that are also scarcely populated, like neuroscience.

Colin Moriarty

Wrong thread. But thanks, ma! <3

Colin Moriarty

Hey dude, as long as you're cognizant and trying to be better (whatever the definition of that even is), I think that's all you can really do.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you for listening!

Colin Moriarty

I may just be a grumpy old man at this point, but I identified with a lot of what Wilson was saying with one major difference. He seems to let his issues and opinions come out, and I tend to keep mine inside. If there were a title for my Fireside Chat, it would be "How to live a hellish life and pass for normal." Haha. This was definitely an interesting listen. Thanks!

Jason Stafford

There are many - frankly - personal questions left unanswered and I for sure won't speak for him. All I know from personal experience is that mental diseases such as various forms of bipolar can indeed be hereditary. That COULD have meant for him that he had (undiagnosed) chemical imbalances already before ever even touched a drug. That said, he said he would abuse the trust of his parents, and to me that makes this even sadder... Acknowledging that there is a problem is one thing, getting the help any (at that time) growing up teen deserves is another. Seems like that didn't happen the way it should have. I am wishing him the best for sure.

German Efficiency

I get that and maybe I missed something. But he mentioned doing a lot of drugs as a kid and also being medicated. Correct me if I am wrong but did he mention the drugs started after he was unfortunately being harassed by other kids? With the mixture of high substance abuse (he mentioned some hardcore drugs), alcohol and prescribed medication, that will definitely have an effect on your brain. I don’t know Wilson, so my judgment is based off this hour long podcast. I 100% wish him the best of luck for sure but I still stand by my original post.

Tyler

Just one thing I would like for you to keep in mind is how chemical imbalances in your brain can severely affect your mood and behavior. He mentioned his diagnosed illnesses so he is not just making this up. What seems 'unacceptable' to me or you could seem completely rational to a person with bipolar for instance. I respect your perspective though and you possibly already know this.

German Efficiency

“People are going to listen to this and say this guy sounds like a dickhead” This was my personal perspective on this episode. Now, I understand that Wilson has issues and that is sad and I sympathize for him. But him talking sounds like he isn’t even trying to take the initiative to “fix” it. We all get depressed and have some form of mental “illness”. However, it’s how you handle that mental stress that defines you as a person. Him saying how he just doesn’t care about other peoples perspective isn’t the right path to go down. It isn’t the type of role modeling you want to present to your kids either. Stand firm in your morals but also be considerate. We’re all on this planet together and we’re all trying to do the same thing, survive. I might get heat from this comment but this was my perspective from this episode. Best of luck Wilson.

Tyler

Yeah, I almost quit listening because of it. But the positive comments have encouraged me to tough it out.

Kenneth Koepnick

I also want to show my respect to Wilson for coming forward with his story. Of course thanks also to Colin for having him on and giving him a platform to stand on. I am convinced that it will help Wilson going forward in the sense that he is now able to go back to this episode for years to come. He gets to rest easy that his story is now well known so that he won't have to bury his true thoughts and feelings. Further, he has found supporters and people that empathize with his situation. So Wilson, my advice - if you are ever feeling "down" - go back to this episode and listen to it again. You made it on here, so all of the pain you went through wasn't for nothing! On a note in regards to Colin's experience with Therapy and Psychotherapy: As is public knowledge I was in pediatric Psychotherapy for 2 years, 3 times per week, for 2 hours a session. Even with that my feelings for a while were that "They don't actually tell you anything." How I feel now is different though. While I am no expert, I came to understand that the fact you are discussing your situations is already helpful. Regardless if you activelly believe so or not. I could talk for hours how that has been helpful to me in hindsight, but for today I just wanted to leave you with a tip I found out to be useful during session: Whenever you have an episode or a particular situation you think could have been problematic and you discuss that situation with your therapist - simply ask: "Why did this happen to me?" What your therapist answers can vary of course, yet I found that especially if you have an inquisitive mind, your therapist will help you find the answer to that yourself. This can lead to you truly figuring out what is causing these perceived "problems" you have on your own even when you are not in session anymore. In my opinion that is the true power of therapy. If they were to "just give you all the answers," chances are you would not believe them anyway. It takes a lot to overcome those internal defense mechanisms. All the success to you Wilson and Colin!

German Efficiency

Sooo nicely done, Dagan! I knew you’d do a wonderful job with the questions - such care in your answers. I’m sure your brother is proud of you. I know am. Love my boys... 😉😘❤️😘❤️

BettyAnn Moriarty

Man, this was a super interesting listen. I have Asperger's, so I don't, and couldn't, equate my struggles with it to any sort of mental illness – nor should I. They’re totally different. That said, I did relate to Wilson in many ways. I’ve used the traits of my “condition” to help me achieve my goals. I’m a successful programmer because I channel the obsessive side of my personality into my work. I’ve maintained the friendships I have by just being brutally honest with a group of people who respect that about me. But man, I struggle with empathy every single day. It’s the root cause of problems with my girlfriend now, and has been the Achilles heel of previous relationships too (there’s a funny “do I look fat in this?“ story there). I’m old enough (30) to know when I’ve upset someone, but often I still struggle to understand why. I’m learning though, and it’s always reassuring to know I’m not the only person out there who struggles with it.

Russell Garrett

Yeah. I try to be solutions-oriented, but I was also cognizant during the chat that I shouldn't necessarily have a baseline for positivity (or even being constructive) on this show. That it had a more negative or sadder tenor is something that I actually think distinguishes this episode. Not that I want to "go for that" in the future, but I'm open to letting the talk go where it goes! (Thank you for listening.)

Colin Moriarty

Although Wilson is on the "dickhead" spectrum in my view. I root for him to overcome his demons and be a great dad / husband. Intriguing episode

Lucas Gremista

Amen. (You take care of yourself, too.)

Colin Moriarty

He was definitely nonchalant!

Colin Moriarty

LOL. =D

Colin Moriarty

You're very welcome. Thank you for listening.

Colin Moriarty

Thanks ma! <3

Colin Moriarty

I gotta get someone on the show to talk about the straightedge lifestyle.

Colin Moriarty

My pleasure. <3

Colin Moriarty

Thank you so much! I'm happy to hear that.

Colin Moriarty

Glad to be there for ya. And yeah, what a coincidence with the yearly Bell initiative!

Colin Moriarty

What a compelling episode. Almost hard to listen at times, I was glad when Colin pulled it together tried to bring the conversation back to the positive in the middleish cause it was getting really quite dire. Really courageous for Wilson to come on and lay himself bare, I really think that will click with a lot of people

Daniel

For years and years I have had self esteem issues that I never thought anything of until it finally boiled over into me hitting myself. You know when you have an itch you need to scratch? When I feel I do something stupid or embarassing that's what it feels like when I hit myself. This also revealed other issues I didn't know existed, I never realized how much I've invalidated my own feelings to the point of numbness and when I actually felt something real it was fucking scary. Even before the self harm came in, just through the way I talked people close to me were urging me to get help. Which I finally did recently which is the best decision I have made in my life. Take care of yourself guys. Even if you feel just a little bit off it's worth it to get yourself checked out. Don't be me and feel like you're wasting any body's time because believe me friends, you're not. Don't wait for it to turn into something serious

Connor Peterman

For some reason during this interview I laughed a couple of times , not in a demeaning way is just the way he doesn’t give a shit is hilarious

Edwin Garcia

Great interview and great opening. “Can cross this off the bucket list. Only thing on it.” “I guess there’s nothing left to live for!”

Tyler

I relate to Mr. Wilson very much.. almost like I’m listening to you interviewing me. Really enjoyed this one Colin, thank you.

Craig Carter

I love and appreciate that you discuss very ‘difficult’ topics on Fireside chats. And I also appreciate the people who so bravely come to you to air their experiences - as difficult as this is. I think that’s it’s often cathartic to speak about these (and other) topics but it also provides reflection and thoughtfulness that may otherwise go untouched. Hopefully too, it helps us heal. Thank you Wilson and Colin for your candid conversation. ❤️❤️

BettyAnn Moriarty

❤️ Erik.

BettyAnn Moriarty

❤️ Owen.

BettyAnn Moriarty

Thinking of you, Jose. Sending prayers and healing thoughts your way. 💞

BettyAnn Moriarty

Oh jeez this could be good for me. I've been struggling with therapy as of late because i feel I have benefited less and less from it as i have aged. Maybe its the perceived dwindling window of 'time to change' or that reflecting back on my experiences in therapy as a child which I generally interpreted as most things are my fault as some kids do. Utmost respect to the guest for being able to open up to another person much less an entire podcast audience.

Erik Peterson

Damn this is rough man. Like that bit in there about how he is with his kids and his wife. That’s stuff I fear. At least he’s able to recognize it’s an issue even if there isn’t a solution currently. I have found therapy helps personally. But you have to have a good therapist. And you have to trust the process which doesn’t kick in right away. Regardless I continue to encourage and love that this show encourages people to seek help. Talk to a psychiatrist talk to a therapist. Get some help man. Thanks for continuing to push that and wearing your illness on your sleeve Colin.

Owen

Oh Man, my wife has bipolar and is going through an episode as i right this, working taking care of the kids and trying to help her is really tough. Days like this feels like life sucks and want to give up. I might have to listen to this on a later date because i can't coup with anything right now.

Hose A Contra Razz

This was great. Thanks to Wilson for sharing his story with us for we all share something with your experiences. Also Str8-Edge-4Life represent. XXX

Marcus Brown

This is a really important topic, love that you're doing this.

Marius Skarsem Pedersen

You interview very interesting people on Fireside chats, it’s right now my favorite show that you do. Keep up the good work dude

Edwin Garcia

Eager to listen to this one. I live with it as well. Been off work the last month for a med change. Excites to go back next week. You're content has kept me occupied on afternoon walks here in the cold east coast of Canada. It's also bell let's talk day in Canada. A good cause.

Jason Price