Defining Duke Ultimate, Episode 50: The Lurking Shadow Of Tencent
Added 2022-01-12 17:01:04 +0000 UTCToday, we broach a subject that goes beyond games: Tencent's silent and steady expansion. Talking about Tencent and the investment of Chinese money in the gaming industry can cross some wires as it boasts many tendrils ranging across personal politics, ethical purchasing decisions, the state of our global economy, and defining what money taken is truly "good money." However, as acquisitions accelerate, so too must this conversation. Where will things be economically for gaming in a couple of years if a company doesn't publicly say no to the offering hand of Tencent? Better yet, should they even say no when targeting independent creatives like Remedy and PlatinumGames if there runs a risk of censorship? There's plenty to discuss, so let's dive in.
Comments
Oof, I didn't realize how far down the Tencent rabbit hole went. The Chinese Room? Digital Extremes? Klei? Funcom? Those are studios who make games that I like. I'll probably still play the ones that I've already bought but I probably shouldn't buy any more of them. I'm going to give Kadokawa and games that use Unreal engine a pass though since they only own about 7% of Kadokawa, and 40% of the 5% commission on the engine, so those seem like small enough, and they're such impactful things to avoid. But their subsidiaries have also done work on a bunch of Call of Duty and Halo games too... They own the studio that made Spec Ops: The Line too. And Terraria... 22% of Dontnod, which is right on the edge of where I might be concerned about buying their stuff, and 20% of Marvelous, which is similarly worrying.
Kaz Redclaw
2022-01-21 03:37:30 +0000 UTCI've been trying hard to avoid buying Chinese products for a long time. It's essentially impossible to completely avoid, some classes of products like Battery banks are essentially impossible to get made outside of China. Luckily, it's been slowly changing, the last time I went to Microcenter, I was able to find 3 out of the 5 items I needed made outside of China (2 Taiwan, 1 Vietnam), and I've also gotten phone chargers and USB hubs that are made in Taiwan instead of China. Now, Vietnam is also a totalitarian communist country, but it's at least not one with global hegemonic ambitions. It's pretty much essential that we diversify our supply chains away from China, because eventually they are going to decide to cut us off if we don't cut them off, and if we're unprepared for that it will cause us major issues. You might check SerpentZA and Laowhy86, they lived in China for a number of years and have a lot of experience with their way of doing things.
Kaz Redclaw
2022-01-21 00:30:12 +0000 UTCColin, dude... I just started watching (came over here from YT to comment) and already felt the need to address a couple of things you just said. I don't know where you got these ideas from, but I believe they do this very important topic injustice. 1. The Chinese government has never expressed their desire or plan to "eradicate you/us from this fucking planet if they could". I would argue and say it even goes against their whole agenda – exploiting the rest of the world and its people. Also, using the "if they could" argument is irrelevant as it can be used in almost every argument being made against a political/ideological rival, especially these days [i.e "if they could, they US would eradicate the Russians (and indeed, also the Chinese") "if they could, the Israelis would eradicate the Palestinians (and vise versa")"]. You can also find such rhetoric language in almost any speech made by almost any leader - in history, which I feel, makes the use of this argument redundant. 2. Go try to be Trans in China"; I have no idea what you based that on, but I'm quite sure there are worst place to be Trans, even in certain places (and whole states) in your own country - the Liberal US. China is not as intolerant towards Trans and Gay people as you suggested, in fact, they passed a law that allows sex reassignment surgery. Now, you may argue as to how Trans people are perceived (mentally ill for example), but I would counter argue that's how most people see and have seen gender dysphoria and GID, for ages. Just a reminder, it wasn't until DSM-V that Gender Identity Disorder (GID) was taken out from being a part of the Sexual Disorders. While I'm clearly no expert, I just couldn't find anything which would indicate China is a much more dangerous place for Trans people than anywhere else. This argument would have worked if we were talking about Muslim countries such as the United Arab Emirates or Saudi Arabia. Being Muslim in China that's a whole different topic – and a much more prevalent one. It reminds me how people use this and similar arguments here in Israel as well, when they try to differentiate themselves (as the liberal country) from the Arab countries that surrounds it. Look, I hate Communism, and I most certainly absolutely despise the totalitarian Chinese government. I also admit I'm concerned and actually very afraid of it and its involvement and affect regarding almost every aspect of our lives. But, hearing say such things, and the two dudes nodding, stating "very good point", simply diminishes your arguments and makes this whole conversation sound immature and I'm sorry to say, even a bit ignorant.
Yoav Efron
2022-01-20 16:10:15 +0000 UTCGreat pod. Tencent ain't getting a cent from me!!!!
ur ppnballs
2022-01-16 19:39:36 +0000 UTCThey mentioned it in the episode but FIST is a FANTASTIC Metroidvania. Highly recommend
TheMuff1nMon
2022-01-16 15:20:00 +0000 UTCHaven't listened to this yet but saw an article that says Hong kong is switching their military to do goose stepping in military parades like the rest of mainland china's armed forces. Makes sense since they already have concentration camps. Fuck the Chinese government.
Dang
2022-01-14 22:15:35 +0000 UTCColin (and Matty and CoG), If you'd ever feel so inclined, I think it would be a great idea if you would use your industry knowledge and research skills to construct a comprehensive list of major publishers and developers that are beholden to significant Chinese investment and/or have openly censored their games to appease Chinese government censors. I understand you're a busy guy but having a consolidated list to guide purchasing decisions would really help some people to make informed decisions. Either way, thanks for another quality podcast! -Jack
Jack Sibert
2022-01-14 18:46:46 +0000 UTCThankyou! Incredible edition 😃👍
stubz gaming
2022-01-14 17:03:28 +0000 UTC"we can't even make our own mask, nevermind video games"- Colin be spittin some bars. 🗣️🎙️🔥
OrochiNewsTeam
2022-01-14 12:56:52 +0000 UTCGreat point. Wish I had thought of this while recording as it’s a major reason I do so.
MrMattyPlays
2022-01-14 08:01:51 +0000 UTCThis is a great conversation. Any chance of making it free to the public? I'd love to show some people
Vinny Pepperoni
2022-01-13 21:12:41 +0000 UTCI feel okay supporting devs if Tencent has a small stake in the company and doesn't effect the creation of the games but once they start taking over companies I'll definitely he worried how the games will be affected
Walker Simmons
2022-01-13 18:55:31 +0000 UTCGreat convo guys. Do you think there may be a time where the Big 3 starts requesting third parties to censor or remove certain things from their games in order to appease Chinese interests?
Cristian R
2022-01-13 14:26:01 +0000 UTCMihoyo the developer is partners with tencent and is a Chinese company. Tbh not much different
Wayde
2022-01-13 02:36:07 +0000 UTCThis is why I am a big proponent of physical media. You can still play games made by companies you don't want to give a dime to by buying used. So many advantages of owning a physical copy of anything. Unfortunately it's a dying medium
Wayde
2022-01-13 02:34:38 +0000 UTCPretty sure genshin is not owned by tencent in any way, they made a deal to be in their App Store but that’s it. They are a member of the ccp though
OCEL0T
2022-01-13 00:18:44 +0000 UTC
