Sacred Symbols+, Episode 172: Saudi Arabia Has Entered the Chat

This is one of the most fascinating episodes I've ever heard you do. Thank you so much!

TheJoe-senOne

Trackymatts There’s a huge difference between the Newcastle and Man Utd takeovers, before Man Utd were taken over they were a hugely successful club and the fans were happy with the situation. Newcastle (although a huge club with a massive fan base) have not won a major trophy in my lifetime (I’m 38!) and had a terrible owner before the takeover. Football in this country is extremely tribal, I would wager 99% of Newcastle fans will just be happy to have loads of money to spend on players and ultimately become massively successful, it might not be right but it’s how it is, as a Tottenham fan I’m sure that’s how I’d be feeling.

Thank you for listening.

Colin Moriarty

I feel very similarly. It almost felt like he was making excuses. That really bugged me throughout the conversation. Still, thank you for the episode.

Alex

I would agree that he seemed soft on the issue.

Colin Moriarty

Well, thanks for listening. =)

Colin Moriarty

I've taken a few days to think on this episode. I gotta say, I'm disturbed by the guest. What a Saudi apologist. He essentially swept under the rug the 81 beheadings. And khashogi. And gay rights. "They're getting better. The prince is better" Gross.

Drewbuntu

Paul, interested to know if many fans have made a choice to turn their backs on the club? Wondering if there has been talk of starting a new club, in the FC United of Manchester mould.

TrackyMatts

It doesn’t take a few google searches to see that the young crown Prince is still instituting horrible practices in the country. Repression of rights, murder, etc. none of that is excusable and small steps are not nearly enough. Call me a pessimist but I’m not hopeful. One of those is too much, sorry they need to modernize, basic human rights are kind of important

OCEL0T

He knows, it's just not politically correct to speak publicly about, given his occupation.

Cash

I really really dont want this to come off the wrong way but I was legitimately surprised by how many times he (basically) said "I dont know" to your questions. :/ I'm no expert in Saudi Arabia but I feel like I knew a bit more about some of this stuff then he did..like the gay rights question is just one example ,oil history, etc...yea idk maybe its just me but it stuck out to me

william planas

You're welcome. Thanks for your support.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you for listening.

Colin Moriarty

I'm certainly trying.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you for writing in!

Colin Moriarty

Definitely. I see his point about things getting better, but I think the nature of their culture will allow it to only be marginally so.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, gotta push back when necessary! But still wanted to get his take.

Colin Moriarty

These deep dives are great. I felt like you painted a full picture of what is actually happening over there. Very educational.

Mitchell Lundsberg

These conversations are great. I would honestly never hear about any of this if it wasn’t for for LSM. Kudos, guys.

Mr. MacDeadly

Colin gets those good interviews 👌

Jack Sibert

Hey. Writing this not as a “correction” but more of an added bit of info. Also happy to go into further detail if anyone is interested. As a life long (30 odd year) supporter of the Premier League club that Colin mentions in this episode I can inform the listeners that my club, Newcastle Utd, are now completely 100 percent owned by the PIF/Saudi royal family. This has given the fan base an almost impossible moral dilemma to overcome and also vilified them in the eyes of the majority of UK media and other football fans alike. I really urge you to search “Newcastle takeover” and see just what full investment from such an entity/state can mean to the people connected to that club or company. Without going into detail it has propelled Newcastle to be the richest club in the world, given their supporters hope of a club that will compete at the highest level, and also displaced a turgid uninterested owner that plagued the club for 13 years prior. Though this has come at a major moralistic price for everyone connected to the club. Sorry for the rant, this episode obviously extremely close to something all our fans are dealing with currently.

Paul Cummings

Fascinating episode. Dr. Mogielnicki seems cautiously optimistic about the prospect of Saudi Arabia’s future and the advances under the crown prince. Its nice to feel like maybe this move on games isn’t destined to end up like China stranglehold on the entertainment industry. I do think we need to keep our eyes on them at the same time and it’s also good to know we have people doing so. Thanks for getting such interesting guests to speak on topics that greatly affect the industry we love.

Greg Wallace

Colin! I liked hearing some push back from you in this interview. The expert had some things to say which were quite flattering to Saudi Arabia and he definitely minimalized some of the broader cultural issues there. I am a veteran and have been to the middle east, a lot of middle easterners idolize western nation values and cultural ways. The pushback that was generally seen was from the hardline Muslim in the areas we were. Chastising even their own countrymen and women for having any western ideals. The ruling classes seem to understand that they cannot stem the tide of western influences into the country but are only turning the spigot very carefully and very slowly to change the country which doesn't necessarily match the fast pace our world is currently in. I would love to hear a follow up from you following both of your shows on foreign influences in games and kind of see where your mentality is regarding them. Thank you for all of your work. Don't fuck that chicken, give it a nice salt brine, batter it up and fry it to golden perfection.

Nick

China is a worse player than Saudi Arabia; however, we need to understand the reality on the ground is not good from a human rights perspective. We should be willing to critically look at a dynastic theocratic autocracy where even being an atheist is illegal. Are they getting 'better'? Maybe. But they are no where near 'good enough'.

Colin Moriarty

I feel like the one thing that separates Saudi Arabia from China is one they are trying to at least get better. And to they don't have the population to have a large effect on entertainment to the extent that China is doing. And with the way things have been happening recently through news media Outlets I know that some things get blown out of proportion because there is a pro-russian Pro China news outlets out there that will make Saudi Arabia look bad just because they're kind of a Ally to the United States. In the sense that they trade with us economically. And yeah I disagree with a lot of the stuff that's happening in Yemen. I don't think people should be getting bombed all the time. But at the same time I remember a lot of those news article was always being on RT which is a Russian controlled news Outlet. So I hope Saudi Arabia does actually pretty well. And I hope that they continue to develop their country in their economy away from Sharia law in a way from being dependent upon oil and gas. And I hope that their people become free or overtime. And plus the last time I checked there wasn't a huge organ harvesting going on in Saudi Arabia I don't know if slavery is such a big thing and that country I've never heard about it. But I think China is actually a much more clear and present danger then both philosophically, morally, and economically. I feel like a lot of the negative stuff that goes on about Yemen Is one man's Freedom Fighter is another man's terrorist. This is what makes Far Cry 6 one of the more interesting games. That was almost the best story ever made. Because they should have given you a choice at the end of that one where you could actually just leave and walk away. Because the purpose of that story is it's a repeating process no matter what you do you're going to end up living long enough to see yourself becoming a villain. Because somebody's not going to like your ideas or your politics. And if a country isn't stable enough it's going to have another civil war.

SammyJay

Thank you.

Colin Moriarty

Indeed. I just wanted to provide context, which you won't find elsewhere.

Colin Moriarty

Good on ya. =)

Colin Moriarty

Always love these conversations. It makes video games an actual topic of importance instead of another mere outlet of entertainment.

Steve Forgione

Great that you’re talking about these things, especially as virtually no one else in games media is. Of course they can’t criticise the Western world quickly enough for doing 0.1% of the terrible things Saudi Arabia does a matter of course.

Rich Price

I tried contacting Capcom a couple weeks ago about my dissatisfaction with their Saudi ties. Needless to say I haven’t received an email back. Lol. I probably didn’t even email the right address but fuck it I tried

Jeffrey Willingham