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Sacred Symbols+, Episode 177: A Sit-Down With Hasan Kahraman

Hey. Colin here. So, I've been in the gaming industry for about two decades now, and -- as many of you know -- my 'beat' has long been PlayStation. I must admit, I've found the ongoing, year-long saga behind the PS5-centric indie game Abandoned so darn mysterious, almost intoxicating in its strangeness primarily because I've been around for so long, and I've never seen or heard of anything quite like what's gone on with this project. The long-and-short is, I've wanted to talk to the game's lead, Hasan Kahraman, since Abandoned was revealed on PlayStation Blog nearly a year ago to the date, and though we've corresponded via email, we've never been able to get something together. Well, until right now. I sat down with Hasan -- the man some assume is Hideo Kojima, but who definitely isn't -- in what is, as far as I know, his first audio and video interview. And I asked him everything I've been dying to talk to him about, particularly from development, publishing, funding, and marketing perspectives, in order to try and suss out just what's going on. Frankly, I think most of you are going to be left with many more questions than answers (I sure have been), but... well... this wouldn't be Abandoned coverage without a thick haze of nebulousness and a sharp ratcheting-up of the intrigue.

Sacred Symbols+, Episode 177: A Sit-Down With Hasan Kahraman

Comments

It was physically painful to listen to. The amount of time I've spent rolling my eyes really hurt my brain. Please, don't invite this obvious con-artist ever again. Good riddance.

Zibi Majewski

So much circular logic with redundant explanations. Either this guy is not very bright, a really inexperienced indie dev, or some kind of weird scammer. It sounds like English isn't his first language, so maybe he just isn't amazing at expressing his thoughts. šŸ¤”

Dano Bass

This guy is straight up a confidence man.

william planas

This was incredibly hard to listen through, hats off to you Colin

Stephen Richard

I’m somehow more confused

Random Integer

This is how you do serious game journalism. Colin’s been hitting grand slams with these interviews. Awesome job and I love talking about myself! Lol.

Matthew Guilford

This is kind of a stretch tbh, not a hill to die on

Kyle Fox

He did mention that he is active on Unreal forums, but I do agree he gives that vibe of an "idea guy" who just likes to talk and has everyone else do the work.

Kyle Fox

I was fully on the ā€œit’s a lot bigger than it looks like, Kojima is involved, Sony are funding itā€ theory. After listening to this I’ve moved over to the ā€œit’s a scamā€ camp. Great interview Colin!

Michael Bagby

The guy went from a couple of mobile games and vaporware straight to a PS5 exclusive game that is being made independently with outsource work being done by NUARE. I applaud Colin for being able to maintain his composure while indirectly being trolled for an hour by Hideo Kojima. Wading through so much bs must have been mentally taxing.

Nikitas Gagas

Lol yeah I use that word too much and even I was annoyed by that

John Goetz

I kinda think this is like when you find out how a magic trick is done - it just becomes utterly boring. Sounds like he's just an indie Dev, developing a game that may or may not come out and may or may not be good. The rest is just the twitter mob tying his teaser to Silent Hill etc and possibly a poorly written article by our favourite journalist at Bloomberg. All of his deflections sound like he's trying not to pour more petrol on the fire and trying not to upset anyone else.

Greg Dawson

This is hard to listen to

Christian Cugini

It sounds like he’s winging it for the whooooole interview?! Maddening

Moistescarjoe

This is pretty much my take as well.

Spencer B

I truly want to hear Colin's in depth opinion on this interview in the next sacred symbols. And Chris his opinion off course, that's going to be fun šŸ™ˆ.

Big Boss BE

Awesome interview. Asked the right questions and revealed the absurdity without going into attack mode or tearing HK down. Allowed him to tell his story rather than trying to land a "gotcha" moment or sound byte. Great work as always. The fact that anyone can listen to this interview and still think that this is an elaborate Kojima play is wild. It's very clear - finally! - that this was a grift from the jump; sure, maybe Hasan is legitimately interested in game development, but it sure seems like he sold a lot of people a bill of goods and is having trouble separating fact from fiction even in his own mind. Very Miucin-like.

Giovanni D'Amico

Yeah this was…… interesting

Andrae Brooks

Colin, always impressed with your interviews!

Taylor

After listening/Watching this episode I am even more sure that Hasan Kahraman isn’t a real developer. He doesn’t seam to know what the hell he’s talking about lol this Abandoned game stuff gets stranger & stranger.

Wayne Moss

Hasan said "The fans are creating the game." What if Sony is reacting to speculation in real time? Actually making the game we are having conspiracies about? Haha

james glenn roten

I could give him a pass for the first 25-30 minutes but as soon as it came to budget, team size, and outsourcing it really fell apart. You can't blame his contradictions in that section on language or nervousness, it literally and figuratively does not add up.

Jamie

Moral of the story, Hasan needs PR and media training.

Al Rodriguez

Marty Sliva next!

John Fazio

I’m 18 minutes in and I’ve had pause it at least 10 times. Just give this guy the rope and he’ll do the work himself. So glad you got this one, Colin!

James Gormley

Soda is called pop in Minnesota

Taylor kazemba

This dude is lying out his ass lol

TheMuff1nMon

Honestly just seems like really bad PR and maybe a team in over their head. The dude doesn’t seem like a bad person at all, hope people stop harassing him.

Anthony Palerino

Basically basic, basically.

illicit salt trade

Well this is cool! https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/abandoneds-developer-claims-it-reached-out-to-silent-hill-publisher-konami/

Clay Layne

Yes Colin, what a great question. I'm glad you asked. Please allow me to answer that by explaining away what the question by not at all answering the question.

ToastIX

Yep, don’t believe a word he says. Definitely a red herring. There is going to be a huge reveal. They may not admit it right away, but I would bet 5 years from now it will come out that Hideo Kojima was behind Blue Box, but it got so out of hand that they ā€œabandonedā€ the fake secret project and pretended it never existed.

Robbie Agnew

If you took a shot of whiskey every time he said basically you would be dead in the first 7 minutes. Love that you got him on. I’m convinced he’s an A.I. Posing as a human

John Fazio

Just wait it out. Once the question is asked about funding, it gets good. Real good.

WalknTalknStvnHwkn

First and foremost, bravo to Colin for being truly professional and not eviscerating this guy on several occasions. To me, I think a few things are now clear... 1. This isn't some elaborate Kojima scheme that has a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Kojima is way too clever to be behind whatever this is. 2. This guy is in severely over his head. He's likely a moderately competent indie developer who's fucked around with creating tiny experiences like the one he said he created for his nephew. Somewhere along the way he tricked himself into believing he could produce a high-end indie game which is obviously false. I'm not a game developer, but I'd like to think I'm smart enough to tell the difference between a highly competent designer talking about his/her game and an individual who's using NDA's as a way to hide behind his lack of knowledge. 3. Abandoned (the prologue or the full game) is never coming out. Thank you Colin for giving everyone the closure we needed on this mess. If the guy is able to actually pull of the seemingly impossible task of delivering a game then I'd welcome him back... otherwise, it's time to move on.

Jason Vanover

This dude is so shady! What is going on here? He’s clearly got more going on than he’s letting on.

Tyler

Borat 2.0

Dante B

Everything for the twitter followers!

Marcos Aquino Pimentel

I have to be honest and please don’t take this as criticism just to be cruel, but 23 minutes in and I have no idea what he’s trying to say, you can tell that he’s nervous and anxious and so he’s a bit all over the place, it’s just hard to follow, kinda felt bad for the guy. I might try again later but the conversation didn’t seem to be going anywhere after 20 minutes and it’s been a hard listen. Perhaps after 25 minutes of this Colin starts directing it more so I’ll see, but yeah, hard listen.

Antony

Colin, was there any pre-production conversation about his camera? Not gonna lie, no one in their right mind would choose that angle for such a big interview. He's got enough money to pay for the players on PS5 but can't afford a desk tripod. Bet. Maybe everything behind him is also under NDA.

Sir Lucious Left Foot

Kuddos to Colin for keeping his shape and not saying he's full of shit. And off course for getting this con-guy to do this interview in the first place. Not that we expected anything less from Colin. šŸ¤˜šŸ»

Bart Van Geert

I love how he keeps saying ā€œthat’s a really good questionā€ then talks in circles and doesn’t answer the question

D_Nasty

Umm my dude literally explained his game and I can’t help he just described Squid Game. I’m much more confused now. This was amazing to listen to Colin!

Daniel Wiseman

This dude should have a mechanic in his game where if you need to hide from anything you can put down a cover with the letters NDA on it and hide from whatever you want.

Christopher Smith

This dude is cagey AF

Christopher Smith

You're not kidding. Listening to it now and holy fuck is this a rough listen!

Clay Layne

Man this guy "Basically" sounds "Like" a bit of a "Basicallylike" fraud? Anyone else get this vibe?

Clay Layne

Man, that was rough. Been waiting for this and it’s pretty much exactly what I expected. This dude is clearly lying and talking in circles for every single question. Lots of rambling, incoherent answers and I swear if I have to hear him say ā€œbasicallyā€ one more time…

Stephen Glashan

While I too have been fascinated by this whole Abandoned story. After hearing this I'm inclined to share the same sentiment as a lot of the comments here that he's a con-man. I've done sales for years, I would have hung up or walked out of the meeting with this guy after 5 minutes. He's in over his head, deflects every question. It's a con that got out of control and he's nervous.

Nick Amato

This guy hides behind the words ā€œNDAā€ like I hide behind my fake name

Captain Bon Clay

Is this dude French Canadian? The broken English and calling soda pop he’s an enigma and after finishing the podcast I think he’s full of shit. Thanks for trying to harpoon this possible conman

Brian Keogh

Hassan is lying through his teeth. My guess is he tried to grab some easy money through a scam and it spiraled out of control with his tweets. Now he's just grasping for straws to stay out of trouble with justice.

Bart Van Geert

Man....still not buying it....This guy soungs like Conman .. wow... won't be surprised if we find out it's been a pyramid scheme all along...lolšŸ˜‚... Great job on getting him on Colin..

Martin Nxumalo

Felt fake right off the bat. "Tell everyone about yourself" and he immediately launches into vague stuff about how he started learning game dev at 14. No true back story from his life and also no details like which software he learned, etc Definitely fake

Drewbuntu

I just want to congratulate yall on getting this interview, you guys are fucking beasts, this is will put you guys on the spot for sure!! Lfggg

Asach Paredes

Odds are this is a struggling indie dev who seriously needs help marketing his product. Maybe I just don’t know enough about the specific details of everything that’s been happening but the marketing for this very small indie game seemed to get completely out of control and he didn’t know how to handle it.

Alex Gould

I still don’t believe he is a real person. I think he is an actor.

Taylor kazemba

THIS IS INSANE lol Why would he come on a podcast just to low-effort lie to every question?

Chris

Well that was a giant nothing burger, no offense to you Colin but this guy refuses to answer a single question without going on 4-5 tangents and then using NDA as an excuse when you pinpointed certain things. Definitely interesting interview

brody_low

More like Hasan Scamerman.

Jeremy Seal

I think this is some actor hired by Kojima. The game has huge support studios helping with development. Even if this Kojima, it's honestly not cute, anymore. This game better be a goty contender, or it's going to get destroyed.

Jeremy Seal

I bet this episode has brought a shitload of new subscribers.

Matt

You fucking got the white whale! Haven't listened yet but I'm blown away this happened.

Dang

the funding and publishing section reeks of bullshit lol great episode Colin and great questioning

Rhomel

What…the…hell… am I listening to

AllTooEasy_

Is it me or does this feel like it will turn into a Netflix movie about how he scammed all these companies. Just wasn’t able to answer anything in detail and Collin was able to call out what didn’t pass the smell test.

James Galos

Well, that was… unique!

NJ

Excellent interview, Colin. Appreciate you digging back in when answers weren’t thorough enough. To me, he came across as a bit of a chancer & in over his head. Perhaps him & his mates will come up with a great game. Who knows? Thanks for the great episode.

Simon White

Me: Oh there should be a Sacred Symbols plus today. *Logs In* Me: .....aaaaaand now I have a mental erection. Kudos Colin, Kudos.

Bambi_Cobblestone

I was hoping he'd go full mission impossible and pull his face off at the end revealing it was Kojima the whole time 😩😩😩

JustAnotherDean

Listened to the whole thing and conclude that he’s definitely full of shit, assuming this is a real person and not an actor for some kojima stuff. It’s classical liar speak, vague w everything. When called out or questioned, he recants and says something different. The comment about his dev costs was a huge giveaway, anyone who’s actually funding a game would have realized $30k was the dumbest number to give. But he didn’t know enough to realize until called out. He basically said everything he said in other interviews was a lie or misquote. Yea….

Brian Presley

About to shower the dog (130lbs) over this episode. Thanks Colin!!

gnawtyFOX

You mad lad! This is why I’m a patron. You’re a legend, bro!

Forrest Hunter

YOU CRAZY BASTARD YOU ACTUALLY DID IT!

Brian Comstock

Take a shot everytime Hassan says basically and we all get alcohol poisoning.

Grimm Carousel

Now the mystery surrounding Hasan karahaman is cleared up I can really concentrate on not giving a fuck about this game. Hasan Karahaman good luck and good bye

Benji_B2sick

I don't know, man. We might be thinking too hard about this. After listen, I get the sense that he's just an amateur game developer that got trapped in some quick sand and sank in way over his head.

Player X

This was fascinating to say the least. My personal read is that this guy really is just way out of his depth

Noah McCay

Hell yea. Well the one thing that I am sure of is he is not some secret AAA studio working on a top secret project. But his game is still odd to me. He sort of made it seem like yea anyone can have an app just ask Sony they’re so cool. The fact is no because no one ever had anything like that before, doesn’t seem like Sony would just do that.

Rafael Sholder

Colin’s patience is what I hope to achieve some day.

William Utley

It’s nice to get some clarity but someone needs to help him put his foot in his mouth. He says too many words for what is happening over there. I doubt we see this prologue. Great interview.

Mitchell Lundsberg

Isn’t what he’s describing as this new style of app literally just a demo, which we’ve had for generations now. I mean any demo runs ā€œin real timeā€ on your system. It’s a demo, it’s running video game code. Whether you have it run something interactive or a cut scene doesn’t matter. Ok so PS5 loads faster, but it just means it can load your demo faster. It’s not like what he’s talking about was impossible previous generations, demos just like released games have the same restrictions provided by the hardware. Unless I’m completely missing something.

Zack E

Huh?!

Johannes

I knew that Hassan was secretly RobinGaming

GameSimp

I need to listen again, but first impressions were that he either a) doesn’t have a clue what he is doing at all, or b) he has an issue with being able to express himself coherently (unsure if English is his first language, which may be a factor and maybe he is nervous) or c) he is in over his head, knows it and has made promises that he can’t keep and is trying to cling on to the exposure he has achieved (whether that exposure was intended or not seems to be up for debate).

Mark Luscombe

Got around to watching and this was absolutely fascinating. I'm a commercial contracts lawyer and whilst I don't work with NDA's pertaining to the game industry, NDA's are something I frequently draft and negotiate, and a lot of the questions where he hid behind the NDA don't strike me as matter which would be covered. In a way, this discussion both provided closure, and raised more questions for me. On one hand, I'm now entirely convinced that BB isn't a shell studio fronting something much bigger. If it was, then I'm sure whoever was behind it would have had the whole charade would have been fronted who is much more comfortable in front of a camera. At the same time though, I'm not convinced there isn't something more troubling going on. Hassan's elusiveness around funding didn't sit right, nor does his vagueness around what Abandoned actually is and when we can expect to see something material. I'm hugely sceptical as to whether there is actually ever going to be a game, and the whole thing has a whiff of someone who has dug themselves into a hole and is now in damage control phase.

Shane Boyle

This guy is pathological

Shane Geis

Respect to you for not putting Kahraman through the ringer when he was flustered by a question or being cagey. You did your best but he did a lot of talking in circles, going off on tangents and using the NDA excuse to dodge questions that didn't seem to affect those. He doesn't strike me as a bad guy but I think he's in over his head and his claim that Sony and Konami are okay with how BB hyped the game is garbage lol. I suppose he has no choice in that matter. Interesting that he basically says Schrier embellished some things in the Bloomberg interview which you and others reference often. "Fancy words" isn't the same thing as misinformation This guy needs a capable PR person ASAP

Joe McPartlin

My god! Sacred symbols is on fire! šŸ”„šŸ”„šŸ”„ Collin you are killing it with these interviews! They are so good man.

James Buck

Well he was a nice fella

Clint

*but*

Rich Price

A valiant effort Colin, it this was a waste of time. He’s either not interested in or not capable of communicating clearly.

Rich Price

Good job Colin with the interview. You pushed for answers without it coming across as attacking him. I still feel that something is very, shall we say, off about his side of the interview. Almost as if he really had no idea on how to answer some of the questions that normal developers would be able to answer without hesitation. Anyways, thank you for putting together the interview.

Ryan Gray

I think it's more likely the latter, he seems nice enough.

C

I came out of this thinking he’s wither bs’ing or he is in way over his head and thinks he can’t say literally anything without getting in trouble in some way. Great work Colin as always! Same with the whole crew. Dustin you rock too

Johnny Lamotte

Just finished it and he seemed to have an answer for everything, even if it was not convincing. Just seems my bullshit filter went off a lot during this interview. Good job Colin for pinning him down, even when he went off on a weird tangent when you asked him about funding.

Andrew McGregor

He sounds and appears genuine to me. Thank you so much Colin for nailing this interview. I think I'll download the app again and look forward to checking out how Abandoned progresses.

Jonathan Cortez

The dirty dogs do it again!

jbostTV ok

Just wanted to congratulate you on finally nailing this dude down (as best as you could). Was a very fun listen, and a great showcase of your interview skills.

Jason Bolla

My main red flag is the PlayStation neighbourhood question. Would him answering that really break an NDA? Like, is that something that would be part of an NDA? I've never heard of it, and I don't think he has either.

Braden Summers

Only half way though and the phrase , ā€œbullshit baffles brainsā€ springs to mind. He talked a lot without saying anything.

Andrew McGregor

Great episode, but I think I know less than what was out there , lol. I’m more confused

Hose A Contra Razz

Colin - great job man. I will say I’m not walking away from this convinced he’s being genuine, which obviously you weren’t as well. NDA = plead the 5th I suppose. Anyway, content like this is why I’m glad and proud to support your endeavors. Last Stand is the best in the biz - proven yet again.

Mr. MacDeadly

Us Canadians also all call it Pop, it doesn't narrow it down that much unfortunately

Bryce Mccloskey

Holy SHIT. Bravo, dude! Stoked to listen.

Collin Sparling

I know it must've been difficult to keep a straight face through some of this. I was confused as fuck by so many of his answers. But great work, Colin.

PuppiesOnParade

Ok. I'm lost.

MJ SKA BOI

This was fucking incredible. So glad you were able to get him to come on. My only regret is that you didn’t ask him about The Haunting: Blood Water Curse on PS5.

MarkGrouch

Thank you for circling back on questions. It sounded like you were dialed in & loving it… what a fantastic episode. Curious to watch the Patreon numbers jump this month.

Kenneth Koepnick

Awesome interview Colin. Thanks for persisting with the hard hitting questions. It’s seems like an indie studio (I question whether the studio exists lol) in way over their heads, and kicked the internet beehive on purpose.

Noah Trujillo

Oh my.

Raymond Aludino

I am now convinced this was a long con to bilk investor money. This guy comes off as a con man

Wayde

Wow. I am blown away!!!

Guns vs Kittens

Colin I'm so proud to be a Last Stand Patron. You are such a pioneer in the industry.

Zachary Perry

Holy shit colin you sly dog u actually managed to get an interview 😳 with Hasan!!!!!??????? Big dick energy eight here

shouty33

Bravo to everyone on the team involved in making this happen. What a great "get" for this crew. As far as the interview , Hassan strikes me as someone in way over his head , especially with the internet spotlight on him. He was evasive on some basic development questions and always seemed to fumble around for his answer.

Jason Luskie

Great interview, he seems especially cagey on things Colin seems to think should be easy to say. Definitely still hiding things… hopefully the game comes out and we can see what all this hubbub was about

Joshua Jones

It actually happened. Woah

Robbie Agnew

Colin, you would.

Andrew Morgan

Just incredible. Congrats on landing this interview, Colin!!!

Joe Perez

Holy shit

Riley Brewer

I noticed that he referred to soda as "pop." As an Ohioan this is a distinctly Midwest thing. Does this add to the actor theory?

Michael (ObjoGaming)

This guys sketchy as fuck

Bob Spiers

After listening to this- I still have questions. He’s obviously being evasive, it’s just strange

Andy T

So he's helping fund the game off the prologue? Seems too much like MGS V... Lol I feel more confused than before the interview. Great job trying to weave through this very clearly confused man's mind.

Harley K

TFW you out journalist an entire fucking industry.

Tick Dickler

Daddy has provided !

Gavin Newland

Congrats on the interview Colin! This is a huge deal since they were so cagey about details.

RK128

Can't wait to listen! Holy moly lol

MayorGarbageMan

Hot damn!

DMC

I had to double check this wasn’t still April Fools. Wow wow wow! Well done to all at LSM who made this happen.

Conor

If you’re a fan of gaming, you’re making a Patreon sub to CLS almost mandatory. Bravo, Colin. /salute Weird but good timing right after April fools day though. LOL

Gary Huss

Wow. Try fingers, but hole.

Sween flossing with his own entire body

My jaw dropped when I read the title!

Daemon

Calm down everyone, it’s happening!

Rich Price

This is wild

Andre Ordonez

Interview of the year let's do this!

Boomboom Washington

Holy shit, dude. Colin, well done

Lord Gerontus

Holy!

Jenna

Man, this dude seriously comes off as a con man in over his head. This is nuts! He can't hide behind "that's NDA'd" with BASIC questions about game development. That doesn't signal to me a studio head or lead developer at all. šŸ¤”

KendrickLuck

Holy FUCK

Geoff

THE BOYS!! YA'LL DID IT! Shout-out to Dustin who I'm sure busted his ass to make this happen. The Gamer Battalion saltues you

Daniel Murray

Holy shit.

Tacoyaki

Knew you had something exciting coming when the post wasn't up at the normal time (not complaining!). Definitely was not expecting this though. You're too good to us!

badlybrave

Unbelievable Colin your truly amazing thank you!!

Matthew Major

Ladies and gentlemen, we got him.

spaceghostbert

WOW. can't listen rn but will get to it. Crazy

ADavidToRemember

Can't wait to see some of the reactions to this, on here and elsewhere

James Schubert

HEY YO

Peter Long

April fools

Dwindle

Oh damn! What a bossed up maneuver

Dimitreus Newell

You are the GOAT for this man. Straight up

Gregory Novell Allen

Welp

Remington Wilson

LETS HECKING GOOO

Bananahamecake

Holy shiiiiit!

Dylan Manuszak

Wow man! Can't wait to listen! I'd like to hear how this interview even was agreed to!

Clay Layne

What!?!?

Heretic The Intergalactic Prophet

I concur with the following comments. HOLY……FUCKING……..SHIT!

Jamie Milligan

No way. I haven't hit play yet and part of me thinks this is an April Fools joke, but I know it isn't solely because if a Last Stand episode is out late, it's for a reason. *hitting play now*

Dave Ramos

Wowwwwwwwwww you fucking did it Colin. That’s it idc what anybody says you are the goat

Kris Guzman

No fucking way

Joe McPartlin

The hell! 😱 I'm actually in awe!

NotYurRealDad

A while back after the Vince Ingenito interview I posted "first Filip then Vince, what other gaming shitheads can Colin help rehabilitate their image" and I'll be damned CM comes through again. Cant wait to listen.

Grimm Carousel

Colin you might just break the internet.

Dr. Beats (Joe Lockwood)

Awesome

Just Josh

Holy shiiiiittttt

Will Hahn

Holy shit.

Kenneth Koepnick

Colin you Son of a Bitch, you did it!

Eric Bushell

YOOOO

Peter Medema

oh Colin you sly son of a gun!

Jacob

Wow can't wait to listen

Wayde

wait no way, HOLY SHIT

Llogan from mmry.crd

WHAT!?

Eric Bushell

Impressive very nice

Jack Doheny

What…?

Mr. MacDeadly

Oh shit! It happened!

Metalkirby27

Holy shit!!!! Bro you did it!! I thought this would never happen!

MonstaPontes93 (Ricky Pontes)

HOLY FUCKING SHIT

Jambi

Holy. Shit.

Zackery Parkerson

Wow it’s real

Jake Whitaker

Bullshit Omg

Kevin White

COLIN M IS THE MAN

Joe B

This is it bois.

Eric

oh shit!!

jettxjordan

Holy shit here we go

Ryan Daly

HOLY SHIT YOU DID IT!!

Andrew Duda

No fucking way.

Jacob R.


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