Sacred Symbols+, Episode 182: Willing Participants in the Culture War

Fantastic conversation. Jaffe has the ability to express his perspective on transgender issues in a unique manner that provides insight unlike other voices that are currently being amplified. I truly appreciate how adding his views (and said expression of those views) to the mix will help us all work towards a better understanding of each other. Thank you.

Zach Brown

I mention this only as a way to get some less tolerant people to calm down and take away a low hanging fruit for them to attack. I have an issue with the term “assigned at birth”. I’ve even heard it described as the doctor guessing the gender, by an elementary school teacher. That is where not acknowledging the biological difference starts. If one has transitioned it is from one and to another. I don’t see the harm in acknowledging that you were born a man or a woman and that just isn’t a life you can lead. Also, it is the exact same love of freedom that makes me feel that you can live your life however you like and anyone that has a problem with it can go piss up a rope, and that if someone can’t understand or condone your lifestyle you should be able to ignore that person instead of demanding that they overtly accept it.

Greg Hommel

I like Jaffe but saying most people are transphobic if they don't agree with trans people in sports and that all genders should compete together is a real bad take. You have to be willfully ignorant of the biological differences between men and women to think that's not an issue. He says nobody cared about women's sports before but I'm willing to bet those women athletes care a hell of a lot, especially the women who are having their records and titles taken away from them. I'm sure it's also incredibly discouraging to even try to get into a sport or train for the Olympics if you know there's a record out there that's literally impossible to beat as a biological woman.

Alexander Packard

Brother, I agree and the last thing I want to do is interfere with anyone living their best life. That said, several women’s world records are held by trans athletes and that is an insult to women. Which is the only issue JK Rowling has spoken out on. They see it as having fought for a certain place society and sport, and now men have stepped in to say we can be better women than them too. I get it.

Greg Hommel

If you were born with XY chromosomes, there's nothing you can do about it.

Colin Moriarty

It seems like people use trans athletes a lot as an example. I don't have the answer for that, there are some people born women who have transitioned and have more musculature in common with men, and people born men who couldn't be pick out in a group of women. It feels like each case should be evaluated individually. But also, who gives a shit? How many trans athletes are actively trying to infiltrate and ruin the integrity of our sports teams? Also, it's like, a game. There's a lot of teens killing themselves. I hope they can get resources they need to get that their lives are valid. Feels like that's a more pressing political issue amongst the citizenry.

Tick Dickler

I agree: Some 20% of the newest generation identify as LBGT, that's insanity.

Colin Moriarty

I agree.

Colin Moriarty

Women would never win in sports if we did it David’s way.

Taylor kazemba

This has definitely spawned an explosion of confused kids(all teenagers) looking for attention and sympathy turning to sexuality as their conflict. Also, if Jaffe’s idea of a “fair” sports world persists, there will be no women competing in sports. Every female athlete will be a trans female and that can absolutely not be something anyone considers “fair”.

Greg Hommel

Hope this was coherent since I’m speed typing at work, but whether or not I agree with you, Colin, it takes balls to have this conversation in the open and I appreciate you for speaking with someone connected to a trans person about it

Nygile Oliver

Seeing all the discussion about puberty blockers and such under this post despite Jaffe talking about his experience with his son tells me that the trans discussion happening is definitely more deeply rooted than just not being comfortable with trans people in certain spaces. I mean, I’m seeing people saying he’s a bad father for daring to respect his son as a trans person and going on the journey with him rather than shutting it down outright. That’s what a lot of people see in what JK has said, more so about invalidating trans people and transness as a concept rather than cautiousness. I mean, there’s not much evidence supporting that trans people are a danger to any spaces, at least not as much as the vice versa, where trans people are having legislations passed that outlaw being trans, or the many cases of assault and murder that trans folk have been the victim of. And While she hasn’t said anything outright transphobic, the meeting with aggressively anti-trans groups and supporting trans conversion therapy could definitely be enough for some folk to not want to support the game, even though she’s not directly working on it. I think if people are too bothered by that to play the game or view it with fair eyes, that’s reasonable, though I do agree it’s strange that media outlets as a whole aren’t covering it.

Nygile Oliver

I agree, but just didn't feel it necessary to pursue.

Colin Moriarty

Thanks for listening.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

Jaffes ideas about mixed gender sports are bizarre. Even some of the toughest women footballers would be destroyed by the average bloke the first time they go up in the box attacking or defending a corner.

Mark Whittington

Awesome convo. I agreed with virtually everything Jaffe said but I loved the discourse.

Ernie M

Terrific discussion, thanks Colin!

Jeffrey Rommel

It goes deeper, and I don't even agree with him. But I don't think it's a point worth pursuing on our particular show.

Colin Moriarty

That's why I wanted to talk to him, specifically, because I know he'd want to engage and keep an open mind.

Colin Moriarty

LOL.

Colin Moriarty

Loved this episode, such a great conversation. Jaffe nailed most of what he said in my opinion, although I admit I’m not very knowledgeable about sports so I’m sure the issue goes much deeper.

Madsines

I think you hit the most pertinent points. I respect how far you pushed the convo and Jaffey's willingness to engage. If his son goes on a date with a woman, does he feel required to tell her he's trans? Is the woman a transphobe if she doesn't want to be with a biological female / trans man with a surgically created penis? Are they "mean" or "wrong thinking"? You definitely mentioned these things and he didn't engage directly but I figured I'd echo the sentiment

Drewbuntu

I love Charles & Derek but you really should have a regular show with jaffe, he really is a treasure

Simmo

I respect it, too.

Colin Moriarty

Not enamel, no. =)

Colin Moriarty

They're so disrespectful.

Colin Moriarty

This is why we shouldn't be weaponizing any of this shit at all!

Colin Moriarty

Oh dear.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you. =)

Colin Moriarty

I think it was always quite obvious that this new reality would run into... well... reality-reality... with athletics.

Colin Moriarty

How can you get one and not the other?

Chris Evans

So I totally respect him for not taking the Tencent money. I think it can be hard for people who are that level to understand how just one deal like that can literally create generational wealth for a person. I realize that for people like jaffe who are already wealthy it's a little easier to pass up.

Thorman

What’s this I hear about pins? I love enamel pins! Are they last stand media themed? Colin you point me to them I’ll definitely check them out! Also jaffe asking if you wanted to Fuck hit me like a truck and I nearly swerved off the road !

Captain Bon Clay

Hats off to Jaffe I don’t know how he puts up with those fanboys on Twitter, a lot of them are just as bad as each other. A lot of the Sony fanboys are just straight up obnoxious and the Xbox fanboys just bait them constantly.

Joshua Brown

I love Jaffe. But I would argue with the more right leaning argument of Trans rights in sports being cudgel for transphobia. Equally I notice that more progressive leaning people that debate this show that they don’t care about sports in general. Let alone fairness in sports.

Jamie Milligan

A little less than people speaking in broad generalities about why the thing they don't like is unacceptable and destroying the discourse, reduction of nuance to a false dichotomy of correct and incorrect, and tribalistically extrapolating a culture war out of differing opinions. I as well enjoyed the gaming conversation.

Tick Dickler

I dont get why we need “boys/mens” sports. I get “girls/womens” sports, but why not make all boy/men sports open to anyone.

Dana Anderson

Jaffe calling people assholes and mean for stating basic facts is what is so toxic about this culture war. I did like the gaming talk though.

Context Should Matter

What an incredible episode. The seriousness paired with the levity is a vertical slice of what makes Last Stand Media great. Please keep it up! If Colin and David do find themselves in an entanglement, who’s clapping who’s cheeks?? I feel like a black hole would open trying to settle that dispute.

Ben Scott

I want a monthly jaffee and colin show. Your guys personalities blend so well.

Brandon Young

Something I never thought about that Jaffey brought up is using science to make in this case sports literally all inclusive. Make it so in some cases the weakest man faces off against what could be the strongest women if that’s what the stats say.. in let’s say swimming or something of that nature. There’s no logical reason going forward where everything has to be split by gender as long as fair play is being used. It makes total sense when you think about it. Women sports aren’t getting more popular unfortunately and I would love to see a basketball team of women go up against a similarity skilled mens team and you could eventually recalibrate entire leagues to employ this and it would be absolutely scintillating to watch. Obviously this won’t happen for a long time if ever but I actually think it’s a really interesting idea. Or even having sports be entirely mixed teams, not necessarily all men or all women. It’s good food for thought. Now I’m ranting but there could eventually be the issue where all the top sports people are all men and therefore we wouldn’t have a Ronda Rousey or Serena sisters or things of that nature because they would never be cream of the crop per say and that might create it’s own issues but it’s good to have these conversations none the less. Just like in gaming sticking to the status quo when you’re on top isn’t always the best way to move forward.

Adam

He'll be back. But remember, he does his own content, too. You can find him plenty there!

Colin Moriarty

Me too!

Colin Moriarty

Should be interesting. =)

Colin Moriarty

It's not the primary point we were talking about, so I didn't feel it necessary to belabor the point.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you.

Colin Moriarty

=)

Colin Moriarty

I'm not gonna get deep into the trans issue with Jaffe, out of respect for his child. Doesn't seem constructive.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

That just means we're influential. I hear from quite a few people in the industry who tell me they hear what I say on the show on other shows, in dev studios, at publishers, etc. Sometimes cited, oftentimes not.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

Why hasn’t it happened already?

Jason Moss

Jaffe is absolutely correct about sports (and it's the natural future of sports anyhow). A future where men and women are playing together is a future we should all hope to see. No men's/women's only sports. Just athletes. Just people playing games. One day a woman will crack a home run out of Fenway park and make the Yankees cry.

MJ SKA BOI

Ya know I’m not always the biggest fan of Jaffe. I think he’s interesting and has a lot of novel ideas but I also find him grating and off putting at times. As such I wouldn’t want a weekly thing with him and Colin but I love this interstitial episodes so much and it’s just the right amount of Jaffe that I would almost like a monthly or every other month episode where Colin and Jaffe just shoot the shit and talk about the going ons of the world. The report between Colin and Jaffe is so genuine and open that it becomes very reminiscent to the private conversations I have with friends where we can challenge each other and say things to each other that we might not say to just anyone and that’s a really special thing to capture in a podcast of video. Keep it up Colin LSM is getting better every single week.

Christopher Smith

I love David Jaffe

Remington Wilson

lol at Cerny being the one to invent time travel Col, I can already imagine the crazy hair your kid will have. 😄

NeO JD

Jaffe showed how stupid he is on sports yea let’s have a pool of players like hearthstone

Jason Moss

Jaffe killing it as usual but his take on Trans people in sports was not it man, regardless a great episode all around, having opposing views on certain issues and being able to keep it civil is what it’s all about🙏

Daddy T

12:35 “ do wanna fuck?" loooooooooool jaffe is funny as fuck 🤣

Big titty drinker

I disagree with most of what he says on the trans issue, and this is why I can understand your light touch here. Part of me would like to hear you in a different venue unshackled, because you do know each other fairly well, and I think it would remain civil. I remember hearing you on his show and it seemed to get spicy a few times. Would you still do Tim Pool, Michael Malice or something like that? I appreciate your work, thank you for the episode!

Eric Crunkilton

Great episode!

Ben Haner

You guys are not fanboys but I do believe that a lot of the fanboy narratives on the Playstation side come from Sacred Symbols. The organic growth, the concern about GamePass with ruin game development narrative. Fanboys use those opinions to be fanboys lol. It’s the number one Playstation podcast so it’s just part of it. Keep doing the great work!

Edwin Garcia

Woo! Moriarty x Jaffe is always a banger! Thanks to both you fine gentlemen, and the production team behind ya.

Paul R.

Thank you.

Colin Moriarty

Came from the heart.

Colin Moriarty

Indeed. Like I said, I think a lot of 'the old gays' are not at all down with what's happening, and you're seeing them speak out about it more and more.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you. <3

Colin Moriarty

Thank you for your support!

Colin Moriarty

I agree with you, but didn't feel the need to push, since it's not really what our podcast is about.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

That would probably be unproductive.

Colin Moriarty

<3

Colin Moriarty

I definitely will.

Colin Moriarty

I'm not sure what he 'educated' me on, but I'm always glad to listen.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you for your kind words!

Colin Moriarty

I have no idea.

Colin Moriarty

<3

Colin Moriarty

Hey LSM and Jaffe. First of all, great episode. I thought it was really awesome Jaffe wanted to share his experience with his son. This is not a side of him I knew about and how his perspective can be used to educate the audience I thought was so rewarding as a listener. I appreciate the great interviews and content LSM continues to bring that’s so hard to find anywhere else. Thank you and keep up the great work.

Michael Hobbs

Lmao jaffe cuts u off to say if u wanna fuck 🤣 😂

shouty33

I think you're spot on about the inflection point we find ourselves standing upon Colin. The average LGBTQ person wants to be normalized and accepted into general society, but when one also requires constant external validation via emphasizing a supposed extraordinary otherness that needs subjective reality bending logic to exist, you lose that general acceptance fast. It's understandable that people start to ask legitimate questions, and we need to be able to have honest conversations with each other.

Jacob Alexander Irvine

Arguably the best episode of SS+ so far. In my mind, this is the solution, conversation and learning, great work guys.

James Schubert

I love David and the energy he brings !! He’s just not afraid to say what he’s thinking which is such a breath of fresh air in this industry!! Listening to you two converse I feel he really gets something different out of you that no one else does. If you could get him on some form of a regular show, God damn that’d put a lot of smiles on peoples faces 😃 Keep it up Colin 😃

Gavin Newland

Omg….I like Jaffe but his take on “measuring testosterone levels and muscle mass” for sports is one of the worst takes I have ever heard in my life. If that was the way to do it, there would be no women sports in general! Why is it so hard for people to understand there’s biological differences between men and women. And those biological differences un-level the playing field in a sporting event. It blows my mind that it has to be discussed seriously.

Brian Comstock

Goddamn, Jaffe brings cohost levels of charisma. Really like the way you bounce off each other, it leads down a unique avenue of discussion.

Tick Dickler

Oh man, it would probably never happen. But now after hearing this, I would LOVE to see David Jaffe and Matt Walsh have a full conversation about Trans issues and gender ideology.

Dave Ramos

Thank you. That is all.

NJ

I just wanna say that I've been playing Nobody Saves the World ever since it launched on Playstation, and you're absolutely right. This game is fucking DOPE! I love it, hope you guys give it some love on the main show for the wider audience.

PuppiesOnParade

Damn I love when you two get together! Also, I was so happy to hear Jaffe educate you (Colin) on the trans community. I work with that community as a therapist and understanding their perspective can really open your eyes. Thank you for continuing to have the best content around!

Dakota Brown

As a gay man, I’ve been struggling with my thoughts on society’s treatment of Rowling and trans issues in general. I have to say that despite not agreeing with emotionally charged motivations like in Jaffe’s case, I am very empathetic to his story. In my own experience with a foster son who’s been in and out of therapy for years, therapists are absolutely leaping toward gender questioning and inspiring doubt where there was none. Society’s culturing of this trans movement has made gender an option like a crayon in a crayon box. It’s not ok that boys can play with dolls. Now they’re assumed to be girls and pushed down that road. It’s a fucking mess and I can’t stand for it. But stories like Jaffe’s make it difficult to stand against it. I grew up brainwashed by the church, and I know what indoctrination looks like. Children popping blockers is very much a reality and I’m just not on board. But this was insightful and I did tear up. Jaffe is a treasure and I loved the conversation.

Geoffrey Prout Jr.

I don’t suppose you can fill us in about what you were gonna say about Greg and his fuck Bobby Kotick moment before Jaffe changed the subject.

Bogey

I could listen to you guys all day, more Jaffe!

Doug Abaire

We decided to delay a bit!

Colin Moriarty

Thank you for your words and support.

Colin Moriarty

Right, but I'm not interested in forking over money for hypotheticals, nonetheless. How do we know + remains viable in a few years?

Colin Moriarty

Yes.

Colin Moriarty

I didn't want to prolong the point because it's far outside the subject of our programming, but did want to note that this level of sorting will mean there is only men's sports.

Colin Moriarty

Yes.

Colin Moriarty

Jaffe is, indeed, a treasure.

NotSkyWalker

The sports debate is so much more complicated than jaffe made it out to be, but I'm sure he's aware of that. Also, his solution of sorting people by body mass and testosterone levels would likely simply separate biological men and women. The competitive game lobby comparison isn't immediately analogous since sports are so much more physically involved, but even at high levels I struggle to bring to mind a biological female... though that is obviously subjective. It's pretty complex and the more I look into it the less I'm sure about either side of the argument. Nice episode as always!

Guns vs Kittens

For a group of people that want to be left alone, they sure love the limelight don’t they. Jaffe rather be a friend to his child rather than a parent. I feel bad for her

Michael Thew

I like Jaffe when he talks about games. Beyond that, I just cannot get on board. Puberty blockers used for long enough is not reversible. You only have puberty once. We as a society will look back in shame at what we rushed into. A child that starts to express confusion on what they are in a key time in their childhood does not automatically mean they are trans. Will a teacher feel inclined to usher in ideology upon a child and start transitioning them without the parents knowing? It's already happening in public schools. Teachers brag about it on Tik Tok. That my good sir, is grooming.

Carson Smith

This was awesome. I like the interviews and spoiler casts but “conversations with Jaffe” is the sequel we needed to “conversations with Colin”. It’s great to see a simple chat between the both of you have a ton of depth. Its not directly shown or talked about but you can tell jaffe really loves videogames and everything about them. A very nice surprise today considering I thought ghostwire spoilercast was going to drop (I can’t wait for that bad boy).

Mitchell Lundsberg

Amazing episode. you guys at LSM and Jaffe are my top favorites. I watch your content as soon as they are available, and I watch his streams live 90% of the time. You guys are killing it when it comes to grounded, no bullshit content. Keep it up!

Jeff Caseres

Just to give some perspective on why I jumped on getting years of PS plus premium. The $60 PS plus premium deal people were taking advantage of included the standard PS Plus. So anyone planning on continuing their standard PS plus subscription basically got free years of premium on top of that.

Bogey

Jaffe is a national goddamn treasure.

lazer_josh

Activision is in no danger of having to lay anyone off, and if they did, they'd be doing so in the face of gratuitous profits that persist even into this era of perpetually bad PR. Thus, it's about what you're really trying to buy, and to what end.

Colin Moriarty

Just you.

Colin Moriarty

Steve Forgione

Is it just me, or does it seem like the audio is a little faster than normal? Edit: Got it fixed.

james glenn roten

Thank you.

Colin Moriarty

Have fun!

Colin Moriarty

Hope you enjoy. =)

Colin Moriarty

Enjoy!

Colin Moriarty

Good decision. =)

Colin Moriarty

Oh my god hell yes! What a pleasant surprise.

Will Hahn

I started listening to the audio.... And immediately realized I needed to watch the video 😂

Bambi_Cobblestone

Jaffe is the best, cannot wait to listen to this

Ryan Daly

Very excited to listen to this while I’m working!!

Christopher Lee

Was thrilled to see Dave's tweet about this. Fantastic guest with a great sense of humor and industry experience unlike any other. Looking forward to the listen!

Geoff