Sacred Symbols, Episode 52: Lost in Translation

Colin, when it comes to loot boxes I’d like to ask you to please watch a recent video from Jim Sterling titled “the addictive cost of predatory video game monetization” I think it really highlights the issues that many people have and it’s a pretty powerful video imo. Keep up the good work man!

Tommy 2 Mommy

Thank you for your feedback! We're figuring out if, when, and how a second episode a week would work. More soon, I hope! =D

Colin Moriarty

I appreciate your feedback, but I totally reject the notion that there's anything inherently bad about gambling. I love to gamble. But I can control myself rather easily. It's not the system's fault if I can't. When I walk into a Vegas casino (which I do multiple times a year), I understand that this place exists for one reason: To take my money. I know what I'm getting myself into. The buck stops where, exactly?

Colin Moriarty

If only this were a bourbon podcast.

Colin Moriarty

Thanks. =D

Colin Moriarty

I see.

Colin Moriarty

Did I? I'll have to listen back.

Colin Moriarty

Hey Colin! I listened to the episode earlier this week and I really wanted to mention to you that I appreciate what you said about loot boxes. I don't like them, and I think they're a shitty business practice, but I don't think there's inherently anything wrong with them. Like you said, many people are okay with them and buy them, and they're making EA millions of dollars. I don't like them, so it's easy, I don't buy them. It's refreshing hearing a different side of the argument when pretty much 99% of talk surrounding loot boxes is how they're predatory and ripping off consumers from gamers and games media. I don't view it as gambling, it's a game of chance, sure, but you're not possibly losing your money and coming away with nothing either. It is literally just like Pokemon or baseball cards. And if it's children buying them, like you said, be a fucking parent. It's a shame they're even a thing, but honestly, they're easy to ignore if they're not for you. I'm rambling a bit, but it was nice hearing someone feel the same way I feel about them for a change! For the record, I'm totally down to get more Sacred Symbols in my podcast feed. I'm thinking "Super Sacred Symbols" if you're still down for the Triple S naming convention. Can't wait to see where you take the shows in the future!

Matthew Clem

Colin, I appreciate you sharing your opinions, even if you think they are unpopular. However, this time I think you are on the wrong side of the loot box debate. Here are some points for you to consider: First off it's helpful to think about what makes gambling BAD. In nutshell it is because you throw money at a chance of winning big, but most of the time you get nothing. Unlike buying a blind pack of a Pokemon (where you are GUARENTEED to get one of the several Pokemon's in the set) with gambling you could easily get something completely worthless (I.e. piece of paper with a lottery ticket.) Loot boxes (the worst ones at least) give players the chance to win something really awesome (a weapon or a character) by random chance, but MOST OF THE TIME they get something completely worthless (a color skin for their gun, a smirk emoticon, etc). Even worse, the odds are not clearly given. The chance of winning something cool is often absurdly high. (Again, much different than the known odds of a Pokemon blind pack.) Now your argument that parents should watch what their kids are doing seems reasonable, but it's not like this is something that has been around for decades. This is a brand new way to prey on the naivete of children that most parents have no clue about. You can't say that parents need to pay attention to this when it is not common knowledge. Go ask a random 45 year-old mom if she knows what a "loot box" is and why it might be bad for her kids. So while I this is really not a big deal for adults to be exposed to this stuff. (It's their money, they can waste it however they want.) It's NOT okay to take advantage of children. It is illegal for children to gamble for a reason, and any game that has these kinds of predatory loot boxes needs to have some sort of warning on them and be labeled "Mature". Gambling is big business, of course companies are going to try and get away with it. This is understandable, but we don't need to allow them to prey on the ignorance of underage gamers without being open and honest with the odds and the fact that this is an addicting behavior that should be monitored. If you happened to read any of this I'd love to hear your thoughts/rebuttal. :)

Jeff Udall

Sacred Symbols Small Batch

Finn

I’m definitely down for more sacred symbols twice a week!! This is the only Video Game podcast I listen to!

Raymond keys

Thank you for reading my question on air it was cool. However to clear confusion on my uncharted and infamous views I was a hardcore xbot in my high school years which is funny cause I wasn’t like that prehigh school

Adamthm

Congratulations! Chris beat you to the punch. =D

Colin Moriarty

Colin, I would like to say that I have platinumed Crash Team Racing. In the end this was one of the hardest platinum trophies I have ever attempted. PowerPyx and PS4Trophies have it rated as an 8/10 difficulty and a 40+hour time requirement. This is the Dark Souls of Kart Racers. This is how a remaster is done, but I thought this game was for children. The scars on my fingers will forever remind me that CTR is in fact not for children and will take your soul to the depths of Hades before awarding you this platinumed trophy. It is a Platinum that any trophy hunter would want the pelt of.

Brett Carlson

Yeah, that's definitely one of the finalists.

Colin Moriarty

Like I said: Lootboxes are only a big deal because everyone hates EA. If this was Ubisoft or Bethesda at the forefront, no one would care.

Colin Moriarty

That's rough.

Colin Moriarty

Somewhat, but Ratchet really is a Metroidvania, too.

Colin Moriarty

I can tell him, but he won't.

Colin Moriarty

In my opinion, and I have been playing professional poker for almost 10 years (and it's not like that makes me the ultimate authority on gambling, but being in the actual gambling world for that long I think my opinion could be considered more educated, as it were), loot boxes are not gambling at all. First of all the main definition for gambling is "play games of chance for money; bet". Second of all, what would actually make loot boxes considered gambling, again, in my opinion would be if there were a possibility of you buying a loot box and not getting anything for it. Or, getting more money in return. When you gamble, you pay money hoping to get more money, with the definite possibility of losing what you initially invested. It's that simple. If I go to a local store and they have an offer like "pay 10$ and you will get either a black t shirt, a white hoodie or a green cap" would that be considered gambling? It's just a business model.

Petre Cismigiu

My flash drive for the 360 died when I reached the final boss of Resonance of Fate. Game is way too hard to go through it all again.

Kaleb

Jedi: Fallen Order sounds less like Metroidvania and more like Star Wars meets Ratchet and Clank and I am down with that.

Haydyn

Colin. Can you PLEASE tell Chris to play the Spiderman Far From Home VR experience. Its exactly what he wants it to be. Thanks!

Jeremy Miller

Fair observation.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, you really need to do shit at your own pace, and if you're not having fun, that's a real problem. Especially because this is supposed to be a hobby!

Colin Moriarty

I assumed so. Was just being silly. =)

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

Mmmm.

Colin Moriarty

Sounds trademarked. LOL.

Colin Moriarty

That'll hopefully happen at some point in the coming months. =)

Colin Moriarty

We'll see what we can do. =)

Colin Moriarty

I'm disappointed that you were disappointed.

Colin Moriarty

But some EA games have lootboxes and are free. Again: I wouldn't blame the product for your (the royal your) lack of willpower!

Colin Moriarty

Oh! That's not bad.

Colin Moriarty

Ehhhhh. =)

Colin Moriarty

Book of Revelation.

Colin Moriarty

I agree, and again, it's like when people get mad at me for blocking someone on Twitter or something. It's like, uh. That's not free speech.

Colin Moriarty

Doesn't take much.

Colin Moriarty

Thanks for the feedback!

Colin Moriarty

I take issue with the head of Platinum talkin smack. Especially when their ps3 ports got shafted with bad load times and framerates. Inversely the 360, with architecture closer to a pc, got superior ports.

There’s No I in LLC

The section on backlogs really resonated with me because for my whole life I have allowed myself to feel anxious over the long list of books I wanted to read. After I graduated from college and got into playing video games, that anxiety extended to a growing backlog of games that I wanted to get to but couldn’t either because I just wasn’t feeling a particular game at the time or I wasn’t feeling like playing games at all. Sometimes I will step away from games entirely when I start to feel the stress too much and just focus more on reading or watching movies or TV or doing something else for a week and I’ll feel so much better when I get back to playing games. Isn’t it crazy how something so fun and liberating can also be a form of stress? I would be fascinated by the scientific/psychological research behind it. P.S. have tried twice to play the Witcher 3 but kept getting distracted. I hope to go back to it this summer though 😁

Martha Silla

Thanks for answering my question.....yes this is my real name sir

Brenton Bestwick

Happy anniversary guys!

Tanner Brant

A second episode a week on a non-Sacred Symbols topic sounds excellent.

Tom Hannay

Sacred Symbols 2: Electric Boogaloo

Oh man I can’t wait till you get to Persona 5.

Michael Miller

Two episodes a week is a dream come true!

Luis Sanchez

underrated

Michal Dudic

That furry talk actually made me curious to see how furries got down. I was disappointed. More Sacred Symbols ftw. Add me to the “Super Sacred Symbols” camp I saw that pop-tart question and was like watch them answer that and you did. SMH. When will it end?! I agree with Chris, I think next-gen will also be heavy on the open world style.

NeO JD

I think you’re way off on the whole EA loot box controversy Colin. Don’t think it’s ethical in the slightest the way they go about it. They design games around nudging you towards purchasing loot boxes. If they just made the game and then said hey, here’s a few extra things you can purchase if you want, but it doesn’t interfere with how you actually play the game or unlock rewards or whatever, I don’t think people would mind as much. Comparing a loot box to a kinder egg toy is a lot of bullshit to me, kinder eggs don’t cost an entry fee of £60 and EA are only trying to rebrand them as “surprise mechanics” now because people in government are having a look at them. They are wanting people to get hooked on them and they design them so you keep coming back again and again. Doesn’t sound “fun” to me.

Ryan Milan

How's about a nod to the Vita and calling the new show Sacred Symbols Cross Buy 😄

Tony Colton

Hey guys. For the new show I was thinking. Sacred symbols... On the side :)

Ryan Hughes

I also tweeted this at you since I was so proud 😂

Jeremy Miller

I've got a name for your bonus podcast should you choose to do it. "Secret Symbols" Get it? Like it's secret from the general audiences if they aren't a patreon!

Jeremy Miller

Colin’s playing Persona 4 Golden. The end days of the Vita are truly upon us.

Zack E

Colin, I really cant understand how people are so uninformed about free speech. It's very concerning that American gamers dont understand the concept. Microsoft and Sony are not public utilities. They are owned companies and have unilateral control over terms of service. How is this not understood. Free speech doesnt mean you can say and do as you please wherever and whenever you desire. You can do that on YOUR OWN PLATFORM. It really infuriates me that people think this way. Xbox is under no obligation to allow you to do whatever you want. It's their company and they make the rules lmao. When you open a company you can make whatever terms of service you desire. If you want to allow racism and homophobic rhetoric that's perfectly legal. The KKK exist. That doesnt mean the KKK can walk into Microsoft and start protesting under the safety of free speech. That's not how it works.

Brett Carlson

Sacred Symbols 2.9: Birth by Dream Drop Memory Chain Distance

Nate McKinney

You know, those 50 Cent games...weren't bad. It's better then Kingdom Hearts atleast lol.

Marcus Brown

Sacred Symbol weekly Sequel would be a great treat. You guys already make my commute so much better on Tuesday it would be awesome to have another afternoon drive to look forward to

Jordan DeBeaux

Not bad.

Colin Moriarty

Okay. =D

Colin Moriarty

The worst!

Colin Moriarty

That fucking sucks.

Colin Moriarty

Like I said, I feel like at least a little bit of this spawns from Platinum's ever-closening relationship with Nintendo.

Colin Moriarty

DENIED!

Colin Moriarty

<3

Colin Moriarty

Mmmhmm...

Colin Moriarty

Dude, if you have a gambling addiction, don't blame Vegas.

Colin Moriarty

I like that.

Colin Moriarty

I'd like to nominate Super Sacred Symbols. (You could call it S3 for the MGS2 reference.)

Nate McKinney

Tell Chris that you can honk in CTR. Press O when you don't have an item.

Taubel

Back on GTA IV I was 20 pigeons away from 100% completion. I went to bed and woke up to a corrupt save. I never went back and the game still sits on my shelf. Thank god for the cloud nowadays.

Harley Carlson

Platinum Games sounds pretty stupid to be honest. Industry insiders and well over a dozen devs have come out and touted what the PS5 is going to be. Ray tracing as common as lens flare and literally the abolishing of loading times. Those are directly from a AAA devs mouth. Platinum Games struggles with technical performance in their games so I dont think they should be talking. That's like Bethesda Softworks shitting on Guerrilas Decima Engine. Or Napoleon calling you short.

Brett Carlson

Great episode my dudes keep up the good work! Show title names - Sacred Symbols: Decoded - Symbols Surveyed

ActualFlavor

I didn't see the poll on Twitter, but would definitely listen to the SSS show that Colin pitched for Patrons 👍

Prince Borutski

Sacred Symbols: Bit on the side...

I'm sorry Colin but well although lootboxes aren't exactly gambling, they are very similar in the way they are used to exploit people with issues with gambling addiction. They employ the exact same mechanics of it being all about luck, and exploit the "sunk cost" fallacy of tricking people into thinking a payout is coming if they keep spending more money. Also, you saying "Just buy the lootboxes is a load of shit" because lootboxes inherently alter the design of a game. They will make the game grind, unfair or even be diminished in quality to make the in-game purchases more appealing.

John Apocalypse

Sacred Symbols S, like the S rank in Japanese games. :D

Jason Stafford

I see.

Colin Moriarty

Some marketing or PR guy thought he was a genius with that, though. Guaranteed.

Colin Moriarty

Not bad. Not great. But not bad.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, I don't get it. And if EA wasn't at the forefront of all of this, no one would care.

Colin Moriarty

I don't want the government involved in any way, shape, or form. Reality is, the ESRB exists simply to keep the government OUT of the industry. We need to keep that ideal moving forward.

Colin Moriarty

My solution remains the same: You need to force the market to speak, or you're in the minority.

Colin Moriarty

Was it worth it, Andrew?!

Colin Moriarty

Gematsu, Siliconera, Niche Gamer, Push Square, etc. These are great sites.

Colin Moriarty

Only one of those is usable. LOL.

Colin Moriarty

=)

Colin Moriarty

!!!

Colin Moriarty

Thanks!

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, I found that nonsensical as well.

Colin Moriarty

No one reads Game Informer. That's EA's first problem.

Colin Moriarty

Roger that!

Colin Moriarty

Roger that. I won't get to it anytime soon, anyway.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, I think it should do very well.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

I see.

Colin Moriarty

LOL at "surprise mechanics". That's such a funny wording to me. This is hyperbole, but that would be like calling rape "surprise sex" Not really, it just sounded funny to me.

Jason Stafford

Of COURSE pop tarts aren’t calzones. SMH they CLEARLY classify as tortellini

Travis Johnson

Jebus thank you for stating the obvious regarding loot boxes... as a 37 year old gamer and father, I dont like loot boxes, I dont buy them. My son is only 4 so hes not playing games yet but when he does.... I'm 37 years and can control what hes doing online. Totally agree that it's not gambling.

Jason Price

Second episode name: Sacred Symbols: Redux

Colin, I respectfully disagree with your take on lootboxes but I think we're aligned in not wanting the gov't to be involved in their regulation. to me, they are gambling in the sense that often there's no skill involved when it comes to determining the outcome. it's all luck, and unlike slot machines in vegas, the odds of which can be manipulated to any degree by the publisher at any time. I think you also asserted that people "enjoy them," hence their financial success - i would also disagree with this as well. I think people succumb to them, with very few games offering alternative means of obtaining the items hidden behind lootboxes besides your time...in a manner that is brazenly balanced in favor of wearing people down. now all that said, I think if they were to be regulated by the gov't, whatever comes next will be even worse and more aggressive - people think that Developers like EA are just going to report to their investors,"Hey, we can't do loot boxes anymore, so all that money they generated is gone now, forever"??? No. In-Game video and display ad placements are here now with titles like 2k19 representing a quiet threat of what will come next should the. juicy, yet responsibly physiced, tits of lootboxes run dry lol

Toren R. (KESA)

Colin, I really respect you and I can KINDA see your side here, but in the end, I just can't agree with you at all on Lootboxes, they should be eliminated from triple-A gaming, this is some smartphone shit and it doesn't belong on a 60 dollar game. For me the core of the issue is that I ALREADY PAID for the game, so how about you give me a full fucking game, please? If it is on the disc, it should be mine because I already gave you the money. Just make it hard to unlock through gameplay, give me a challenge, like in the old days. The last lootbox-ridden game I played was Injustice 2, I wanted to make a couple of specific characters I always played look a specific way, but I kept getting shit for other characters I never used, I only used the few in-game boxes you get from completing the story and never bought a single one but the problem with lootboxes is that they are random stuff, and they restrict content that already exists in your disc, that's why they are terrible for the industry, even if some of us don't buy them, they take away content from the player. And of course there's Star Wars Battlefield 2, you really think that is the last time we are going to see pay-to-win mechanics in a game? Do you think EA understands and learn from their mistakes? No. You're not gonna see me throwing around the "think of the children" argument, I agree with you on that, if you don't want your kid making purchases then be a fucking parent. I also don't want governments messing with the industry because it sets a very dangerous precedent. But there is also the reality that this gigantic industry of ours can't regulate itself because the microtransaction/lootbox business is just too damn profitable. I just hate everything about this. I'll stick to personally boycotting EA and refusing to buy full price games if they have these mechanics. I can only hope others join me, but I don't think they will, so it is a losing battle.

Just wanted to correct something Chris said about CTR. He stated the karts don't have horns in the game. This is incorrect - to honk, just press the item button while driving around the Adventure Mode overworld. Surprised to say I guess a platinum doesn't mean you know everything about a game.

Andres

I’m glad you guys shout out smaller media outlets. I really love gematsu it’s a treat.

Kenneth Oms

My ideas for the name of the weekly second episode: -Sacred Symbols Strikes Back -Sacred Symbols² -Sacred Symbols: C² -Super Sacred Symbols -Sacred-er Symbols -SS2 -Sacred Symbols Plus

David Graham

CTR remastered, *a bit more difficult than the original* Games journos: "is this the Dark Souls of kart racers?" Great episode guys!

The idea of a second deep dive sacred symbols podcast would be awesome

Alex Lawrence

My favorite podcast is LIIIVEE!!!!!

Jeff Caseres

Interesting that a major politician seems to favor unionization of the video game industry but I believe trying to cite the industry revenue as a justification is misleading. Revenue does not equal profit. Just as a very simple example, Statement of Operations for EA for FY 2018 had revenue of 4.95 billion, but also cost of revenue 1.322 billion and operating expenses 2.632 billion. So they only had an operating income of 996 million (plus some other incomes). So stating the revenue of an industry almost as if it is the industry's profit is kind of deceitful. Loved the episode as usual!

Barrett Boswell

To be fair to EA / Respawn there was multiple Game Informer articles (as part of their cover story) that went up at the same time as the gameplay reveal, which specifically discussed the inspirations behind game being Metroid and Dark Souls. I’m surprised other outlets didn’t pick up on this sooner.

Dan Parsons

I never was a big Mario Kart player as it’s more “everybody is a winner’ than a challenge, and I hated the racing stages in crash bandicoot 3 warped as it was so bad and annoying. So that was the reason I never got into CTR as a kid as I thought it would be same bad racing. I was wrong, CTR is really great and is the first kart racer I actually like because I get my ass handed to me not because of some cheap power up, but a actual challenge as if I played a simulator game like Dirt Rally where your stage knowledge is key. And the mechanics is way deeper than any Mario kart game. Highly recommend the game.

Philip Andersen

Hey Colin may want to wait on Persona 5 to get the Royal version that is the 'golden' version of persona 5, up to you. But, The Catherine full bodied release is coming up [fuckin stoked!]

Ryan Harvey

Yes, I love the second episode a week idea. The N-Sane trilogy sold N-sanely well, more so than Activision thought. It sold so well infact, that they commissioned the development of not only a successor (that of which hasn't been announced but likely being worked on right now by VV), but CTR, Spyro, and is likely the inspiration for other recent remasters like Sponge-bob Battle for Bikini Bottom Rehydrated and Destroy All Humans Remastered. And given that CTRNF is online and has an N-Sane amount of customization I'm genuinely surprised people haven't realized how ridiculously well this game will sell.

Avery Illies

Excited for the new developments with SS. Congrats on the success Col!

Karl Brown

Best episode ever just because of Chris!!!

There’s No I in LLC