Sacred Symbols+, Episode II: Violence
Added 2019-08-16 16:00:04 +0000 UTCCan video games influence real-world violence? It's a controversial question that stokes anger, resentment, and fear from "both sides." But even as countries like the United States become safer than they've ever been, they still fall prey to heinous acts of mass violence that shake us at our very cores, and make us take a second glimpse at our assumptions on a whole host of issues. While we had originally intended to avoid this minefield in the wake of the shootings in Texas and Ohio, we instead thought we'd confront it head-on. Are we absorbing too much violence (and sexuality) as a society? Are we becoming desensitized to the pernicious realities of being exposed to endless amounts of blood, gore, murder, and death? Or are we seeking a convenient scapegoat that stops us from thinking deeper about the problems that plague us? It couldn't possibly hurt to chat for a while, and try to figure things out for ourselves.
Comments
So I'm catching up these patreon bonus episodes and wow, I thought of a very, very different movie titled "the hunt" (foreign film with mads Mikel... The guy that plays Hannibal on the criminally short lived TV show). Haha, great damn episode btw.
aRoyalGuard
2019-09-14 02:54:56 +0000 UTCThank you for your thoughts, Paul. As I think I've said many times, the problem seems exaggerated from my perspective, simply from an optical standpoint. It's not the Wild West here. I promise. The US has never been safer! That's kind of the strange situation we find ourselves in, I suppose.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-26 00:02:35 +0000 UTCThat's really kind of you to say. Thank you!
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-26 00:00:58 +0000 UTCAwesome. Thank you! Welcome!
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-26 00:00:42 +0000 UTCI just looked: It was the Karabiner 98k.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-26 00:00:29 +0000 UTCAt 17:03 I think you referred to a Nazi rifle called the K1? You said it was the Nazi version of the M1 Garand, but then said it was bolt-action. I'm trying to figure out which gun you're talking about, because there was no service rifle in Nazi Germany called the K1, and the Garand wasn't bolt action. If you mean the Nazi's version of the Garand, I believe the Gewehr 43 (G43) was their first successful mass-production semi-automatic rifle, and it was also known as the Karabiner 43 (K43). Other than that, if it was bolt-action you could've fired many things, but the Karabiner 98 kurz (Kar98k) is probably one of the most iconic Nazi bolt actions. I don't expect a response, just thought I'd give a little insight to anybody else that might've caught that strange K1 comment. I'm by no means a gun expert, most of this info is what I gleaned from Wikipedia with a few minutes of research.
Watch Ergo Proxy
2019-08-24 08:49:41 +0000 UTCBecame a patron so I could hear this conversation.
Kameron Clem
2019-08-23 16:39:03 +0000 UTC2019 Mass shootings. 1st. USA : 249 2nd. Mexico : 3 3rd. Canada : 1 I'm from the UK, we sit on zero. I come from an area of England called Wythenshawe in Manchester. Look it up. It's not got the best reputation, it's one of the largest council estates in Europe and growing up there was rough at times. Unfortunately I seen my fair amount of crime and violence growing up - and that's from someone who went out of their way to avoid hanging around with the wrong crowds. When I think about some of the unstable kids, teens and adults I have come across in my life I dread to think how much more frightening life would be in the area if we had the same gun laws that you do in America. Added to that, the lack of healthcare available for victims of these crimes. I feel a little dirty commenting about American issues when I am not from there, I hope I do not offend anyone. As an outsider looking in.. Surely if the guns weren't so easy to get hold of (and own) then that crazy number I opened with would start to decrease? We all have unstable people in our communities. Mental health awareness has been on the rise and it's far from being a US only issue but the difference is, sick people over there can legally own deadly weapons. I totally agree with you both that the blame ultimately lies with the person pulling the trigger... The sick individual that takes it on themselves to kit up and take innocent lives... It's wrong to blame anything else. Yes, some games or movies could fuel the adrenaline of a sick minded person and help tip them into action.. but, I'd argue that of they are of that mindset and are that unstable, then it could of been anything that gave them the final push. I obviously don't have the answer for this issue, but you would have to a fool almost to think that the gun laws over there are not contributing to the situation - the statistics speak for themselves. Maybe it's tighter controls you need to stop unstable people from owning firearms. Maybe something could be done about the calibur of weapon you're allowed to own.. should your average person be allowed to own assault rifles? Nah I don't think so. The saddest part of this conversation for me was when Chris explained the fear he felt being in school / collage a few years ago. I have thought about this a few times in recent years, wondering how safe your children feel in school in 2019 America. I'm father to a 19 month old girl, I would be terrified of leaving my daughter at school in the States, THAT is disgusting. Thank you Colin and Chris for yet another great conversation. I'm sorry for the long post, I wanted to speak up on this one as an outsider looking in. I have always loved America, it's my dream to visit one day and I have always felt love towards America, it's people and culture. I am proud of the friendship between our nations and it hurts seeing news reports reach us of these mass shootings. My heart goes out to anyone affected, let's hope that one day we can bring a stop to these mindless and senseless acts. Keep up the amazing work, and thank you so much. Paul.
Paul Moss
2019-08-22 22:18:44 +0000 UTCAmazing fucking episode. Keep up the amazing work guys! CLS is my most favorite gaming content of all time! 👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽
Jeff Caseres
2019-08-22 20:56:09 +0000 UTCThank you!
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-22 20:37:50 +0000 UTCThis was a great listen, really enjoying the format of these + episodes!
Michael Sandiford
2019-08-22 09:23:16 +0000 UTCThank you so much! We're glad you're digging our show so far.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-22 05:29:44 +0000 UTCLoving sacred symbols plus and how even the discussion was and how you and Chris looked at both sides. keep it up!
Oklahomie
2019-08-21 16:03:46 +0000 UTCI believe it.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:10:59 +0000 UTCWell... it's true. =)
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:10:34 +0000 UTCMass shootings have happened elsewhere, but the math is the math.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:10:27 +0000 UTCHey Bill! Patreon rolled that feature back, but then rolled that rollback back. LOL. If it's still not working for you, DM me and I'll look into it.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:10:17 +0000 UTCThank you!
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:07:53 +0000 UTCThank you! Our shows will always be "as long as they have to be." =)
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:07:20 +0000 UTCThank you so much!
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:07:07 +0000 UTCThat's scary stuff, man.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:06:54 +0000 UTCOut of curiosity, what do you think we should do?
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:06:42 +0000 UTCThank you!
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:06:04 +0000 UTCDarrell, it should be better now. If you're still not seeing it, DM me.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:05:48 +0000 UTCThank you so much for your kind words.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:05:36 +0000 UTCI generally agree that, if you're unwell enough, you're gonna do what you're gonna do regardless.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:05:24 +0000 UTCThank you. <3
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:05:10 +0000 UTCThis is true, but when you think about fiction of the past, it didn't always revolve around violence. It's almost as if we feel that the best way to have a kinetic experience is to exploit violence, and I think it's small-minded. Not that I dislike those kinds of games.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:05:02 +0000 UTCI agree that a lot of people don't understand guns. I understand them better than your average American layman, but certainly not much better.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:04:30 +0000 UTCI'm really sorry to hear that.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:04:00 +0000 UTCThank you! I'm so glad you liked our chat.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:03:13 +0000 UTCNo time! =\
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:03:02 +0000 UTCThank you! I'm sure we'll return to the serious stuff as the situation demands.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:02:28 +0000 UTCI experienced something very similar in New York after 9/11. It's just a shame it takes something like that to bring people together and make them act decently.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:02:15 +0000 UTCWhat I'm most interested in is how foreign governments will deal with their inevitable gun problems once 3D printing makes it a reliable way to attain a firearm. It's a big issue!
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:01:45 +0000 UTCI'm glad you enjoyed our discussion. Thank you!
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:01:02 +0000 UTCIt's very sad. My sisters, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, etc. are teachers, and they talk about it a lot. It's frightening stuff.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:00:38 +0000 UTCI mean, I can see both (or all) sides. It's a tough one. I just hate the gaming industry's auto-defensive posture on this stuff. It's lame.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 02:00:14 +0000 UTCIs that the old MTV show?
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 01:59:12 +0000 UTCI mean, I definitely have been to a large degree. But I'm still put off when I actually see it. I don't think any of us are truly sensitive to the actual violence of the world.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 01:59:02 +0000 UTC=) =) =)
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 01:58:16 +0000 UTCNoted.
Colin Moriarty
2019-08-21 01:58:09 +0000 UTC“Someone else ended up writing a piece for them.” Lol.
Mike Smith
2019-08-20 23:44:28 +0000 UTChttps://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/get-psyched/201301/the-weapons-effect
Thane Goldberg
2019-08-20 15:42:35 +0000 UTCThe shootings and violence aren't a uniquely American problem. So sick of hearing this.
Nicholai
2019-08-20 15:33:16 +0000 UTCWhy is this not downloadable?
Bill Gormont
2019-08-20 10:05:10 +0000 UTCSame here. I can’t find this on my iTunes podcast app either I have to listen to it through Patreon. The first + episodes worked i the podcast app but now I only get the regular episodes on Friday on that app.
Phishoto
2019-08-20 01:15:02 +0000 UTCBest podcast you both have done in recent memory. Congrats!
Steve
2019-08-19 22:19:22 +0000 UTCStill do not understand what happened to the download link. Did something change or am I just losing it ?
Zero shadow fox
2019-08-19 20:08:54 +0000 UTCI almost didn't listen to this because the topic has worn me down over time but I loved this discussion. I think you both came across really well and provided great perspectives to an extremely complicated and difficult topic to discuss. Really glad I gave it a listen. The length of these additional episodes is perfect by the way .
Steven Oslund
2019-08-19 07:00:05 +0000 UTCJust want to say LOVE this episode and the SS+ format. You guys are killing it!
Sam
2019-08-18 23:51:47 +0000 UTCVery interesting convo. Interesting hearing Chris’s take on being scared at school. I’m the same age as Chris, and actually was in school during a shooting that killed 3 kids and wounded 3 others. I never felt scared or concerned about a shooting happening in my school, even after the shooting, as strange as it may seem. I also think those feelings were pretty standard for our class. We all grew closer as a senior class, and I think everyone just wanted to support each other after.
DeucesBruh
2019-08-18 22:19:13 +0000 UTCVery interesting conversation. As a European listener I watch the continual shootings in the US with horror and hope that some solution is found but it always seems to be the same nonsense spouted. Your politicians and media obviously have no real clue how to react to the shootings and I think are just grabbing onto whatever they can like crazed animals (while protecting their funding base of course).
Peter Campbell
2019-08-18 16:25:48 +0000 UTCYeah I was just thinking of that one. Fantastic game.
Philip Andersen
2019-08-18 12:04:51 +0000 UTCE rated game with a powerful narrative: journey
Grasshopperspacecadet
2019-08-18 02:58:15 +0000 UTCThis is such a tough topic to cover because there isn’t one answer to it. There are so many factors that you have to take into account and there is no easy solution. Great job covering this guys!
Trent Miller
2019-08-18 02:45:10 +0000 UTCI thought Patreon rolled back being able to download the MP3 directly? Not seeing it?
SwittersYoni
2019-08-17 19:49:57 +0000 UTCSocialized medicine is possible with a complete budget overhaul so the country doesn’t dip further into debt. You just have to make difficult choices for spending and taxation. I think the decrease in quality of care and waiting lines is inevitable but I’d argue having everyone covered medically far outweighs having the absolute best of the best healthcare for only those that can afford it. Most people who can currently afford healthcare don’t see a problem until they get hit with a medical emergency and suddenly have tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars of medical bills. If I get stricken with cancer, the last thing I want to think about is how am I going to afford treatment.
Tony Palylyk
2019-08-17 19:41:38 +0000 UTCHoly shit, any gaming media that accuses CLS of being right wing should listen to this podcast. The opinions expressed here (non game related anyway) are about as far from my own as you can get. HOWEVER, what I can appreciate is both Colin and Chris are both knowledgeable and aren’t spewing the nonsense talking points and knee jerk reactions of the gaming and mainstream medias. It is so rare for me to be able to listen to opposing views and come away with a more positive opinion of those I’m disagreeing with. Good work guys. Very glad to be supporting CLS.
Gerald Pennington
2019-08-17 18:30:54 +0000 UTCRemember the quote from Scream, this pertains to media in general. “Movies don’t make psychopaths. Movies make psychopaths more creative.” I think a psycho is a psycho and will do harm anyway possible. Certain media might just add fuel to that fire.
Tyler
2019-08-17 18:02:41 +0000 UTCThis was some of the best content I’ve heard on the subject. Really insightful, thought out stuff instead of knee jerk reactions. Should give us all plenty to think about
Ryan R. Kittredge
2019-08-17 14:38:18 +0000 UTCViolence is a fun (and near necessary) element in video games because of the risk relation to adventure. It may often be adapted lazily, but it’s also fun. It’s also not ‘real’ violence. Something I’ve said before: If one is free, he is not safe; if one is safe, he is not free.
Blair Sutton
2019-08-17 10:52:28 +0000 UTCThe mischaracterization and misrepresentation are the worst parts of this topic. With respect, I also feel that the education level around firearms contributes most to people’s opinions/understanding in this debate. I don’t want to hurt anyone; I don’t want anyone hurt. I don’t want to be defenseless; I don’t want anyone to be defenseless. The military and law enforcement aren’t bereft of their firearm sins either, compared to the highlight of the American citizenry currently. Where’s the call to restrict or disarm them?
Blair Sutton
2019-08-17 10:46:58 +0000 UTCI think what Chris said about having the mindset of being scared to go to school is right. I have the same feeling now going to college. It sucks really, but a couple years ago a shooting at an Oregon College claimed the life of a childhood friend.
Andrew
2019-08-17 01:32:36 +0000 UTCIt's very interesting that Japan is one of the only if not the only foreign country brought up in this discussion. Why? I think bringing up others would torpedo the narrative that gun violence is a uniquely American problem. I think Chris underestimates just how much fully socialized medicine would blow out the national debt, nevermind the inevitable dip in quality of care and increased waiting lines for essential procedures. There won't be a stable country if we get to a point of runaway inflation.
Max Stahl
2019-08-17 00:24:46 +0000 UTCGuys, holy shit I really enjoyed this conversation. There’s something to be said about informed and adult political conversation. I find myself aligning more with Colin’s political beliefs but Chris makes excellent points creating a very good atmosphere where we can have these higher level conversations on real issues. Please do more “serious” conversations for the plus podcast!
Hunter Holliday
2019-08-16 23:43:13 +0000 UTCHow much money do you guys want to do another podcast with you and chris talking political topics. It was very refreshing hearing 2 people on left and right discuss social issues in such a civilized manner. Thanks guys
CLsquared
2019-08-16 23:00:10 +0000 UTCThis was one of the best discussions you guys have ever had. I would be super interested to hear you both discuss other 'serious' topics again from time to time
Phil Walker
2019-08-16 22:17:38 +0000 UTCI will say that I recently moved to VA beach right before that shooting happened that claimed the lives of 13 people and what I say was amazing. Not only was everyone coming together with the va beach strong phrase, but also we placed all blame squarely on the shooter. It was amazing to see and everyone wanted to do nothing but help each other and come together
Timothy Bryant
2019-08-16 21:40:02 +0000 UTCI think context is important. The Washington Post published a huge article a few days back which concluded that just shy of 1200 people have died over the past 54 years due to these kinds of mass shootings (after excluding gang violence, etc). That means a 54 year average of 22 people a year. The fact is it’s just not something you have to worry about. You’re infinitely more likely to get hit by a bus, yet nobody worries at night about whether they will get hit by a bus. We don’t have a big mass shooting problem, it’s a very rare and marginal crime in a country of over 300 million, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t work towards improvement in stopping these. Chris was right on with 3D printing though. Within the next 20 years CNC 3D printing will be pumping out high quality semi automatic firearms. Whether you want to ban guns or not doesn’t mean shit. The guns aren’t going anywhere. Anyone who wants one will have one, so let’s move forward with that understanding and not put up unrealistic nonsense solutions that violate civil liberties. Next, this is not a uniquely American problem. Some crazy dude just ran into a building and killed 50 people using gasoline in Japan a few weeks ago. The methods may differ based on the weapons available, but there is something wrong with modern society that allows these unbalanced people to devolve to this point. We need to catch these people before it gets to this point. Lastly, the second amendment exists so that when the U.S. government becomes too tyrannical, the people will have the power to overthrow it. Now this may not be for 1000 years, but the point will happen. Every state eventually falls. I’d rather not be left as cattle for slaughter. As Patrick Henry said in 1775 "Give me liberty, or give me death!" I’ll take the small risk in exchange for freedom.
Keith W
2019-08-16 19:11:04 +0000 UTCGuns are in America's DNA. Wheather it be stones, arrows, or bullets. There is a deeper psychological American fascination with weapons in society. It's true videogames are only a mask to the true violence. As creatures of this universe we all have the ability and insticts to murder. Knowledge and modern conveniences of life suppress our hidden instincts as a society. Videogames do not cause violence. I would argue it satiates our raw nature. Along with movies and literature. Videogames would not exsist without the concept of a gun. I am not into mathamatics, but I do remember about finding the remainder. If we took everything away; videogames, movies, guns, politics, religion and ect. All that is left is us. People who kill are perhaps the most honest with reality. (Just a thought) Great discussions either way.
OrochiNewsTeam
2019-08-16 18:43:06 +0000 UTCChris is right. I lived in multiple places with high gun crime. Having to do school drills and then having shooter scares every now then is a genuine fear. P.S. I learned in 12 different schools in Texas, Illinois, Indiana, and Kentucky.
There’s No I in LLC
2019-08-16 17:53:51 +0000 UTCI'd be interested in the link, sounds like a very insightful read.
Kam Wallis
2019-08-16 17:26:23 +0000 UTCThank you both for covering this issue from a nuanced perspective. Nowadays, everyone expects you to be fully on one side or the other, so I think it's actually very brave to take the "fencesitter" position, as backwards as that may sound. Really enjoyed the episode guys, looking forward to more Sacred Symbols Plus. This is coming from someone who only owns an Xbox and no Playstation. Keep up the good work.
Greg Ohlenforst
2019-08-16 17:17:25 +0000 UTCThe media that causes more mass shootings is big corporate media (CNN, Fox News etc.). They take these cowardly mass murderers post “cool” social media pics they find of them and share their crazy ideas to millions. Other crazy people see this and think that’s the solution to spread whatever horrible idea they have. This has been proven by several studies and yet no blame for them or any call to stop making these shooters into celebrities for 48 hours. LA Times has had several great article by Frank Shyong. He talks with a father who lost a son in a mass shooting and has started No Notoriety. If you want to read it I can share the link. It is a great look at this issue from someone in the middle of it all. We can all do better by not promoting these and not politicizing tragedy. Everything these days is about politics and not solutions with compromise. I’m sure we need new laws around mental health and firearms. Let’s be honest though with congress on vacation by the time they get back the media has moved on and nothing will happen again.
James Galos
2019-08-16 17:15:19 +0000 UTCIt may depend on the platform? I'm on the Android app, and I still have the download option.
Daniel Mitchell
2019-08-16 16:40:55 +0000 UTCI sure as hell haven't been desensitized to real world violence, and I'm sure most people haven't.
Forrest Hunter
2019-08-16 16:40:39 +0000 UTCYou and me we are PLUS together :D
Saulius Vekteris
2019-08-16 16:36:36 +0000 UTCWhy did Patreon take away the download option? My own Patrons are asking me the same thing, so it seems to be a platform wide update.
Joseph Marzola
2019-08-16 16:23:16 +0000 UTCMy commute home just got a whole lot better 😁
Captain Canada
2019-08-16 16:02:42 +0000 UTCYes! You all can be my “PLUS” one anytime 🤣
Brock Smith
2019-08-16 16:02:07 +0000 UTC
