Sacred Symbols, Episode 104: Crashed

So what you're NOT officially saying....is if hypothetically the person writing descriptions happened to take a vacation to the moon...then this would never stop, interesting. Hypothetically interesting I mean.

Lou & Rei Loper

Thank you. <3 Sony isn't even providing names of games at this point, so who knows if and how it will continue. But as long as we get game names, we'll keep doing this. =)

Colin Moriarty

I never seem to comment on the SS posts (though I listen to pretty much every one of them) HOWEVER...I had to let my voice be heard on this........seriously, I hope the drop never goes back to 'normal'. These on the spot descriptions are FANTASTIC and I could listen to them forever. Best part of the show? I can't disagree 🤔

Lou & Rei Loper

Yes, very weird!

Colin Moriarty

RE: Old quirks/habits... Definitely any Mega Man game -- Jumping through the Master Robot gates to freeze MM's jump animation is a must. I was actually shocked when this wasn't included in Mega Man 11. I thought that any self-respecting MM fan jumped through the boss gates, so it would have been a pretty neat homage to include this in MM11. A missed opportunity for sure.

Kevin Cooper

But that's missing the point Colin. I already know that our currency in relation to yours is the problem, but it doesn't change our reality. From when the dollar was on par to now we've experienced a jump of 20$ and our salary did not go up accordingly. We are not paid in us money, so it is still a burden. Now if one game cost people more than 100$ after taxes, I guarantee that for a lot of people it's going to be a psychological barrier even more than it is now.

RD_21

Thank you! We'd keep doing it, so long as Sony keeps providing names, and it's unclear that they will.

Colin Moriarty

Yes, we correct this in 105. =)

Colin Moriarty

$80 Canadian is $58 USD. You're actually paying LESS for games than we do in the States. =)

Colin Moriarty

The “fake” drop is by far my favorite thing so far 😂😂😂. Nothing is better then you guys making yourselves laugh. 😂 Love you guys. Keep up the incredible content.

Cory Towler

I know it's late for this correction, but it's Hercules you were thinking of, not Conan. Xena: Warrior Princess was the spinoff to Hercules: Legendary Journeys.

Billy Wright

I personally liked the drop and when you had the description, it made me look up a couple of games that I would have missed otherwise. As for the price of games they are already 80$ CAD and most people have greatly reduced (myself included) the numbers of new release purchases they make. If it goes up to 80$ US, I will buy even more game on sales. I used to pay 120$ for two games taxes in when Best Buy had their deals of buy 2 new release this week and save 20$. Made me take a lot of chances on games I otherwise wouldn't have. Now it's 100$ taxes in for one game...

RD_21

Oh, OK. Sorry, must have misunderstood that. 😅

Zibi Majewski

Well, I think that experimentation on the market is going to be key. Games can justify a higher price point. They just need to prove it. Since AAA dev is clearly an arms race, it's not going to get cheaper. And it's nice, in premise, to open studios in Boise, Idaho or Jackson Hole, Wyoming and keep costs down, but you need to be able to attract top tier talent that doesn't necessarily want to live in those places. That's why studios tend to crop up around each other. That's why LA, Seattle, San Francisco, Vancouver, Montreal, etc. are hubs of game dev. And that's why people who work at studios like Bend tend to stay there for a long time, or their entire career: It's where they live, and they don't exactly have another option.

Colin Moriarty

No, we don't know why Layden left.

Colin Moriarty

It's a fair argument, but I'll reiterate: A game should be as long as it can justify and respect my time. Anything more or less is going to garner a complaint from me.

Colin Moriarty

Okay, we know that. We're talking about its slang use. LOL.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, I still don't quite grasp the word.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you. &lt;3

Colin Moriarty

=D

Colin Moriarty

It'll be an interesting fusion, no doubt.

Colin Moriarty

I agree that all accusations need to be taken with a grain of salt. However, I'm also not going to assume that it was possible to file a police report. Some of this stuff isn't even illegal, I don't think, as we discussed on the show. It's a sticky situation when these things are made public, but unfortunately that's sometime's someone's only recourse.

Colin Moriarty

Perhaps so!

Colin Moriarty

The section with the Layden interview left me with several negative feelings, despite totally agreeing (SOME) games can reasonably increase their asking price. First. Why, when the cost of games is brought up, didn't you bring up that most of these big studios are based in cities with ridiculously high cost of living? Is that even an option brought up with the higher ups? Second, you guys need to realise that you're not the normal consumer. I feel like I hear complaints about game length a lot from the people that cover them, and while I get just as annoyed by games that waste my time, I also don't need to play every game like y'all do. How much do you think that skews your opinion? Chris even mentions it in regards to RDR2 and having to rush it for work. Finally, I actually think increasing the price of games will just bring their length into question by consumers more. Rockstar or CDPR can absolutely justify even $100US (WE PAY ENOUGH IN AUS), but you're going to struggle to make that argument for some of even the first party titles. It'll make the argument of what's 'worth' your money even more prevalent, and bring game design and content under heavier scrutiny. Have a good one.

hugplx

As soon as I saw that deodorant comment, I knew it was gonna make it on to the show. 😂 Did we ever find out why Shawn Layden left? Chris nailed the storefronts question. I miss that from the Xbox 360.

NeO JD

I am so incredibly tired of all of the complaints about game length. There is room for shorter and longer games. A game's length doesn't have any bearing on its quality (necessarily). And the "I don't have time to play an 80 hour game" argument doesn't hold water. It's not as though you're going to game less, you'll simply play fewer titles. It's still game time. It would be like complaining that Mad Men was 5,000 hours long, but you could watch The Departed in two. Either way, you're watching video-based entertainment. A good game is a good game, regardless of its length.

Sam Dunham

Quick insight into word "Ratchet" since it may have different meaning in US than UK. But where I work a ratchet is a device consisting of a bar or wheel with a set of angled teeth in which a pawl, cog, or tooth engages, allowing motion in one direction only. "a ratchet screwdriver"

Zibi Majewski

Rachet comes from the actual wrench. I always presumed it was because these ghetto women were being loud and obnoxious like the wrench is loud and obnoxious

Chris B

I do like hearing all the new releases, the addition of making up the games based on the title is hilarious. The show is as long as it needs to be. No want here to cut anything short.

Robert F Friemering

I absolutely love that 'Ratchet Fight Compliation' is in Colin's search history

Empty Symbol

Trigger doing the CP2077 anime is really cool because they're known for making really a great anime style that makes fights and action really colorful and bombastic. In the anime community if you hear Trigger is doing an anime, you expect something great. And if a non Japanese writer is providing the story you can most likely expect that weird stuff to be left behind.

FluffyNeko

If no police report is filed, accusations need to be taken with a grain of salt. People are constantly chomping at the bit to tear down powerful or successful people with little to no evidence, to retaliate against someone, or to gain notoriety without contributing anything to the world. There's a reason why most of these accusations take place on blogs or social media: filing a false police report is a crime. If one actually wanted justice, one wouldn't wait years and completely forego involving law enforcement or due process. The takes on these types of situations reek of naivete; false accusations happen all the time and ruin thousands of innocent lives in kangaroo courts at universities, and this has transitioned to online.

QB

Colin, I believe Playstation’s new hacking initiative bodes well for the future. Playstation’s execs have to have confidence in their OS. Could it be a shrewd way for them to flex their improvements by taking on intentional, requested attacks?

Maxx Lazos

I just felt bad for WB Montreal, really. LOL.

Colin Moriarty

Hmm... good to know. I'll inform Dustin. *Willy Wonka flute*

Colin Moriarty

Colin, your mic this week was a bit peaky. Not sure the fix needed, but just thought you’d like to know dude

Maxx Lazos

I understand what Chris is saying during the Arkham Origins/Rocksteady conversation but Rocksteady chose to make references to Arkham Origins in Arkham Knight including bosses like Firefly and the museum-like section in the GCPD where it references lots of Origins content. Seems contradictory of Rocksteady since they call it the Arkham Trilogy yet acknowledge Origins existence and importance in their own game with Knight.

Real Radec

I don't know how I feel about it yet; I still haven't beaten it.

Colin Moriarty

Oh dear.

Colin Moriarty

Interesting.

Colin Moriarty

There would have been no severance apart from my accrued vacation time. We didn't know if KF was gonna be successful so I needed as many paychecks as possible. Turns out I was worrying for no reason, but hindsight, y'know.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, it's a needlessly dense game, I feel.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

=)

Colin Moriarty

You're foolish if you think last of us 2 is a masterpiece.

Cory Munroe

LOUE IMA KILL YOU TONIGHT! LMAO

Frank G.

Just to correct Chris, you can actually sneak past enemies to get to the next "level"/"stage" for most encounters. It's just hard to see or know the exit, because it's not immediately obvious until you bumble into it. I immediately started just stealthing past enemies for the most part in the latter half of the game.

Bumbuman

Not gonna lie, if I was giving a company 3 months courtesy before I left, and the boss fired me instead. I would immediately agree and take severance lol.

DeucesBruh

Nice Trials helmet :)

JD

Innocent until proven guilty? The problem with cancel culture is people are being punished before their day in court, and it can, and has been abused.

Winter

Loved the improvised versions of the game lmao

Wayde

Couldn't agree more about games respecting our time and Shawn Laydens words were like music to my ears. TLOU2 has nearly 300 collectibles.... Why ? Some add to the world building but not all, at what point do they say "yeah 286, thats it, thats the sweet spot"

Craig Mcguire

Love those game descriptions on The Drop

PissJug

My vote is firmly in the "yea" column as to whether or not the improvised description of games was funny. I was losing it by the time Chris got to describing Dig Dug breaking into parties and making people explode. I look forward to further impromptu synopses.

Zach Brown

Yeah, I haven't beaten it yet so I don't have total insight, but at 20 hours, I'm wondering how much more this game really has to show me.

Colin Moriarty

Well, let us know what you think when we post next week. =)

Colin Moriarty

It was a beautiful game, but as everyone behind-the-scenes knows, it was their obsession with graphical fidelity that was their downfall, because they forgot to actually make a fucking game. LOL.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you. &lt;3

Colin Moriarty

I think we just gotta get a little more in the middle. Time as currency: Respect my time. If your game can truly demand 50 hours from me, then do so. If you can get there in 20, though, I'd prefer that at this point.

Colin Moriarty

Shut up, nerd.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, the industry has some deep problems.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, I was a Vesti guy, too. It's sad. But again, these are allegations. Who knows what's true and what isn't.

Colin Moriarty

That's what I'm looking to do, but again, I just want + to be Chris and I when necessary, and also bring in others when it's necessary.

Colin Moriarty

Thanks. =)

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, Nintendo games just don't drop in price. Very peculiar. But it seems to work for them.

Colin Moriarty

I think Layden was talking in real money: Prices go up, but game prices have gone down with inflation. The reason prices varied so much was the creation of cartridges and the different chipsets required. Discs were supposed to (and did) standardize cost. But it's caused things to remain stagnant. Game prices have to go up.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, but it seems like he made amends.

Colin Moriarty

Which enemy?

Colin Moriarty

I'm looking forward to playing through it a second time... but first I need to beat it once!

Colin Moriarty

=)

Colin Moriarty

Interesting. I experienced probably the most notable one yet when playing last night!

Colin Moriarty

I loved Neil's Tweet about not playing to the crowd. I thought it was appropriate.

Colin Moriarty

Nor should you be.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, I get that... but it's still infidelity, that happens all the time. It's not a crime. I dunno. I just feel like we've gotta separate that actual abusers into their own verticals, as all of these offenses are in no way, shape, or form created equal.

Colin Moriarty

He was truly disgusted.

Colin Moriarty

What a disastrous mistake.

Colin Moriarty

I tend to agree that two is ideal. Thanks for your feedback.

Colin Moriarty

Yes.

Colin Moriarty

I'd love that, but Sony PR isn't gonna allow that.

Colin Moriarty

Thanks for writing in.

Colin Moriarty

Alright, nerd.

Colin Moriarty

Fair enough. We'll have thoughts very soon!

Colin Moriarty

Thank you for your feedback.

Colin Moriarty

Really? I didn't even know that. I've been wiping everyone out.

Colin Moriarty

This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I've had more weird bugs that are just totally uncharacteristic in a Naughty Dog game.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah. I still need context for everything. I really like playing it.

Colin Moriarty

Okay, something to keep in mind.

Colin Moriarty

=)

Colin Moriarty

Excellent!

Colin Moriarty

I hope your weekend goes well. =)

Colin Moriarty

It's interesting that the discussion about game length is coming up right now, because that is my exact problem with the Last of Us 2. The game is too long, much longer than it needs to be.

Matthew Cooper

So crazy to think I beat a game before you guys because usually I'm playing catch up for the spoilercasts lol. Also can't help but worry on Chris' opinions because on his podcast it was spoiled beyond the 15 hours you guys are at because a co host was ahead. Regardless having beaten it I do believe it is another masterpiece and you shouldn't worry about the length for it really flies by. Hope y'all are well.

Marcus Brown

Is it me or are the graphics of the Order 1886 some of the best of this gen? I remember the character models looking outstanding.

Jorge Sosa

I must say I used to zone out to a degree during the drop segment. Now I love what you guys are doing with making up game descriptions. Keep up the hard work, fat.

Kevin Sullivan

Game devs and publishers definitely need go back to producing tighter 15 hour length games like they used to in the early 2000's. There are too many open world games whose worlds are just lifeless in that they don't provide enough unique, fun activites and missions to do in them to justify themselves as open world. The open world ends up being filler in a way because having to travel from point a to point b adds artificial length to the game as compared to just starting a new level on the fly. Mafia 3 exemplifies everything in the kind of open world game I hate. One thing I'd like to see more of is games done in the style of the new Hitman games where they have larger intricately designed levels, with a focus on having multiple paths and playstyles to accomplishing your goals. The games of the new Hitman trilogy apparently don't even cost nearly as much to produce as many other AAA games franchices since the gap between the games are all looking to be well under 3 years.

TimberWolf0080

Correction: My Hero Academia has nothing to do with Little Witch Academia. Little Witch Academia was created by Yoh Yoshinari and animated by Studio Trigger as you said. My Hero Academia was created by Kōhei Horikoshi and animated by Bones. I would give you more details but I know you don't actually care, so just wanted to save you from being attacked by the weebs.

strawhatninja

This whole Gaming “me too” bullshit. Fuck me, I love games, I absolutely HATE the industry. It’s completely rotten to the core.

Andy T

I thought the first half was fantastic. Had no desire to finish the second half though.

Miles Williams

It's crazy to hear about Tal. I was a frequent visitor of "Teh Vesti" (the ign messaged board) back in the early 00 and he was a bit of a meme there. He even has his own emoji! [face_tal]. Part of me is hoping it's not true what's being said, he seemed like a nice guy.

Jose Horrach

Why don’t you have a permanent rotating chair on sacred symbols +?

Miguel Rosales

That description Chris gave for Coaster has me all fucked up lol This is the best version of the drop ever

Adam Barnes

If you wait like 8 months to a year, you can get pretty much any western PS4 game for like $19.99 to $29.99—and that’s in Canadian dollars. For Nintendo, I could literally wait 3 years and their first party games would still be $79.99 CDN. So if game prices go up for Sony, I’d just wait to buy everything. In Nintendo’s case however, there’s no way they would raise their game prices. Their games don’t cost as much to develop though, since they aren’t pushing graphical fidelity and don’t require 4K assets.

Jake H.

I remember when the price of video games could vary from anywhere from $20 to a 150 there was no standardization for the price of video games. also the $60 price point started I believe the 360 generation prior to that it was $50 was a standard for the n64 and xbox generation. while I do agree that smaller games could be more appealing we already have a wide variety of different games and times to completion.

Wayde

#Hire3rdChairWeeb

JD

I concur xD

JD

Fran was accused of something? Damn.... I like Fran, he's on my PSN. Always seemed like a top guy! We all make mistakes...

Bryan King

Love you guys but every time I hear you complaining about developers/publishers not making shorter games with higher quality I want to Looney Tunes-style jump into my headphones and emerge from your computer screen to shake you by the collar and say “then why haven’t you played The Lost Legacy yet?!?”

Cannonball_Jones

She was awesome on SS+ and her voice is soothing as hell. Could have a scotch and relax and listen to her reading an audio book.

JT

Loved this, had me laughing a lot, thanks lads. People will probably already be breaking your balls on this but stalkers aren't a new enemy, they were in tlou part 1 in the hotel where Joel was separated from Ellie

Big Swingin' Rick

If for whatever reason a third somehow ever gets added it should be Mamma Micah

CLsquared

I’m about to complete my second play through of TLOU2, and IMO it get better the more you think about it. It’s not the story I would of wanted given the choice, but very few games have stuck with me the way this one has. Really looking forward to the spoilercast.

Louis

Oh goodness. Just to clear things up Colin, Little Witch Academia and My Hero Academia are completely separate entities with different studios behind them. Both have had games on ps4 though. Sorry to let my weab side show through a little.

Gabe

The complete seriousness that you both took the deodorant question had me rolling. Keep it up guys.

Mitch Krassin

I didn’t experience a single glitch in this game. That’s interesting. I felt the same way through half the game, but once I beat it, I ended up absolutely loving it. Really made me think a lot and my emotions were messed up. Love it!

Just finished tlou2 and I thought it was one of the best games this generation. All the hate is undeserved. People just cant seem to grasp that different isnt bad

Wayde

I’m from Midwest Ohio and I feel the same way about Caramel (carmel), as you guys feel about Jewelry. I’m not boujee enough to be bothered by those extra syllables

Cole Minder

I think the reason the Ashraf Ismail allegation is getting paired with the rest of the reckoning in games media right now is due to the context of what he did. From my understanding, the woman he had on the side *didn't know* she was a side piece. So essentially, he sexually preyed on her while being in a committed relationship. That's a little different than a married person just cheating with someone on the side who knows that person is married. In that scenario, both of the cheaters know it's an affair. So yeah, I think it belongs in this same discussion, which frankly, is disturbing in its pervasiveness through the industry.

Daniel Mitchell

I love how offended to his core Chris got by the butt crack deodorant question haha

Adam Barnes

Goddammit Colin it was HERCULES that was aired in the same Universe as Xena

Jose Horrach

I hate the idea of a third person. The duo is what I pay for. They bounce of each other perfectly. There is no reason to mess up the best video game podcast on the internet just on a whim. I actually think to many people on a podcast heavily damper its quality. For example, in my opinion kinda funny has actually felt less and less special as the years go on. Of course losing colin was a huge hit. However, the bigger hit might just be that there are far to many people in the mix at KF. It's hard to keep up with. And has, in my opinion, lost its voice. Nothing against anyone else there. But I used to tune in for Greg but you get him only 40% of the time across all the shows and it's frustrating. Just my two cents, to each their own. Everybody has an opinion. And I dont oppose guests on things like SS+. But keeping the main show consistent and keeping the original voice is crucial for its success. We want to hear colin, chris, and DAGAN as well on knockback. I'm super content with the magic we have bottled now. :)

Jeremy Menear

The Stanford Prison Experiment was a bad study https://www.livescience.com/62832-stanford-prison-experiment-flawed.html

Jake Z

Solid point. I love the game.

TL

Hey Colin, would you be willing to get Neil Druckmann on for a SS+ episode, I think you'd ask questions that others wouldn't, you have a unique perspective regarding the games industry, which is why I think this show is so successful. Would he be willing to come on one day? I know he's a friend of yours, but would a certain harmless tweet from the past stop him coming on for fear of the twitter mob, or wouldn't he care about that? Keep up the incredible work.

Liam Mcnulty

Thoughtful answer from Chris as what I would call the "outsider." I think I need to use the word "journalist" more judiciously. Appreciate that answer and the episode. Thanks, guys!

sean McGuire

Beware of evaluating the game as a Part 2 in the "completing the narrative" sense. I really think the game strives to be Part 2 of a double concept album and succeeds beautifully.

Jake Z

I’m far from a gigantic anime guy but Little Witch Academia and My Hero Academia have nothing to do with each other. Just wanted to point that out but it’s not even worth announcing as a correction on the ‘cast.

TL

Yup. I stealth as long as I can but I love it when I get spotted and have to go loud. Honestly the combat and mobility is amazing once you get the hang out it, and it feels real good when you get through 5/6 enemies without taking any damageZ

JT

*Tries to stealthily get through a level* *Whistling* GOD DAMN IT. Edit: When it comes to audiences being "ready" or not for a price increase for games, I think that they'll just deal with it. I don't quite understand the trepidation.

Max Stahl

I'm on my second playthrough of TLOU2, I bought 2 copies to support the game after the controversy and I really enjoy it from a gameplay perspective. Unfortunately the writing is not tight enough and relies on deus ex machina far too much which isn't good enough following doing something so controversial near the start of the game and then considering the perspective change later. I respect the artists vision and the ending was still emotional but I am a bit disappointed on the story side.....

Bryan King

Would totally be down if ye added more people, would love it either way

Alex Lawrence

I think I had too much expectations for The Last of Us 2 because I was disappointed with it overall. I did enjoy the first half of it though.

Just a wee note for Chris, you can actually get through a lot of the encounters without killing anyone. (I only managed a few but I'm crap)

Campbell Parker

I had a glitch in The Last of Us 2 that I could not shoot my rifle at all. I had to change the controller schematic to get just the rifle to work

Kenneth Oms

Colin, loved hearing your approach to TLOU2 as far as waiting until it’s over to decide. I told myself the same.

TL

Everytime I start an episode I go to take a shit. Even if I don't have to go. Just seems appropriate. I don't get up to eat until they're into the real news.

Jon Barnett

Right when I went on lunch, this went live. I thought "oh great I can listen while I eat"... Then I listen to putting deodorant in your butt crack and I can't say my appetite is gone but I'm deeply disturbed.

Angelo Ponte

Instead of a permanent 3rd member maybe you could have an occasional guest on. I agree the heart of SS is the Colin/Chris dynamic, but an occasional 3rd voice could be refreshing. Like the ever rotating 3rd chair days of Beyond, but with a guest every 5-6 episodes instead of every one. Just a thought, the show is fantastic as is so there isn't really a need for change.

TheBufferPiece

Here we go!

Anthony Wright

Just in time for a drive I gotta go on! Ace!

Billy Dedman

Its been a long week needed this. Thanks

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