Sacred Symbols+, Episode L: The Last of Us 2 Spoilercast and Review Discussion (Part II)
Added 2020-07-14 16:01:01 +0000 UTCAs you know, we didn't feel like our two hour-long spoilercast and review discussion for The Last of Us: Part II from a couple of weeks ago gave us enough time to explore the game to our satisfaction. So we sat down to record another nearly two hours of content all about it, driven -- as always -- by your inquiries. On this episode, we delve into the character of Abby, how we feel about her, and if we should feel sympathy for her. We also discuss the iconic museum scene, the strange inclusion of Vita, its thematic (and overly-dark?) elements, its beautiful UI and fluid menus, the new Infected, the Fireflies and the freshly-introduced Rattlers, killing dogs (digitally!), the inclusion of sexual content, and perhaps the biggest question of all: Is Tommy really the bad guy? We hope you enjoy!
Comments
My gut told me to listen the warnings of part 2. I played it anyway, and what a mistake. Every character was unlikable and the story/message was so hollow. I didn’t care where the plot went and how it would inevitably end. It taints the first game in some manner. If you’re second guessing whether or not to play it, save your time and money
Ahlickaloo
2025-02-24 20:10:10 +0000 UTC47:40 Colin be Goonin
HoeMalone
2024-11-14 20:26:38 +0000 UTCEveryone is gonna view the game differently, so I'm not sure why there is so much bellyaching over Chris' opinions. He felt the same way that many of the people who played the game felt.
HoeMalone
2024-11-14 17:45:16 +0000 UTCI come in defence of Stalkers. They're the scariest enemy in the game, I was shaking when I first met them. That's just my opinion, but I understand your points.
Aladin_Run
2022-05-09 14:46:05 +0000 UTCThese 2 spoiler reviews have been the worst content you’ve ever produced. I regret paying for these.
sam croese
2021-09-23 00:36:28 +0000 UTCMan!!!! You completely echoed my thoughts on Chris EXACTLY! Don't get me wrong, I love the show and adore Colin and sometimes Chris, but holy fuck does he come off as obnoxious and pompous as hell! lol That is one of my biggest pet peeves with Chris on how most of the topics on this show, he is completely unable to articulate thoughts on ANYTHING! If I had a dollar for as many times Chris says "i dont know" JESUS!!!! LMAO! Another peeve I have was Chris and Colin clearly raced through this game for the show. It's also why Colin changed his mind after his second playthrough.... If you are RACING through this game you are doing yourself a HUGE disservice. I definitely get annoyed with Chris but then I remember he's never eaten a decent plate of nachos, baked beans or sloppy joes. I've come to believe Chris was raised in a bubble. LOL
Jeff Frizz
2020-08-13 18:34:16 +0000 UTCSo it’s basically Haley Gross’s fault this story FAILED. That’s actually kind of a relief. If they do have a third game in the works in the future, please do not re-hire that woman. Get Bruce Straley back at all costs!
Matthew Legaspi
2020-08-11 17:07:21 +0000 UTCI wish we could hear colin opinion a little more it felt like it was Chris review
AlonN798
2020-08-08 22:40:42 +0000 UTCMy biggest issue with the game is how all this "unique" storytelling and bold direction just leads to themes and feelings that I have already experienced in plenty of games, including the first TLOU especially. I already knew that we weren't the "good" guys based on Joel's shady background and what he did at the end in the hospital. I already knew the people I killed had their own lives and friends when we found out we had killed David's people. I didn't need to play the second half of the game as David in order to understand his motives and see that the world is grey. The enemies you fight being regular people who have friends, their own responsibilities, and are justified in their actions was something I thought was a given, not something that needed all of this disarranged storytelling to flesh out. I'm not opposed to playing as Abby, but her part dragged on too long and felt irrelevant to the overall plot both while playing it and afterward when you see her turn her back on the WLF and fight them even though the game tries to make you feel bad for killing the WLF as Ellie. I can respect doing something new and risky rather than producing something that would be generic, but this game's themes ended up being generic anyway. I enjoyed the game despite this, but had I been attached to the first game like many others I would have been disappointed with this as a Part II.
Royd
2020-07-31 22:32:47 +0000 UTCHad to shut this one off after 20 minutes. I'm all for differing opinions and hearing them out, and I don't think TLOU2 is a perfect game, but Chris is just too jaded, obnoxious and relies too much on cringeworthy exaggeration, not to mention being unable to articulate his feelings on the game in a way where I can take his opinions seriously. Bummer, I was hoping Part 2 would tone some of this from Part 1 based on fan feedback, but I guess not.
Michael Weir
2020-07-27 21:54:57 +0000 UTCI have been having difficulties understanding my feelings for this game. Just recently Kyle Bosman put a impressions of LOU2 and I feel he had a best view of the game for me. He talked about how the game was how much Ellie loved Joel and nothing could bring him back (even though she tried). Just an interesting point of view and worth a watch.
Thomas Martin
2020-07-27 02:53:39 +0000 UTC“I can’t wait for Hitler to come home” 😂😂😂
MeatSpin11
2020-07-26 14:41:19 +0000 UTCHuge fan of cls but Chris was absolutely cringeworthy. Not sure why colin let him ramble so much and hardly give us his own thoughts. 4 hours of Chris bitching and moaning about a game he didn't like and acting like his cringeworthy opinions were fact instead of analyzing the game at all. Go play halo or crash bandicoot next time colin wants to have a discussion about a playstation game on a playstation podcast Chris and it be cool if colin brings on a guest instead of Chris for something like this. Saddened me that both of these casts were the absolute worst tloup2 casts around
Nate Meel
2020-07-26 02:26:56 +0000 UTCBorderline unbearable to listen to Chris and how negative he is on every topic of discussion. Colin raises topic of discussion - Chris shits on game - over and over and over again. I love Colin and was looking forward to hearing he's thoughts here but I just can't.
Dave W
2020-07-26 00:24:21 +0000 UTCI enjoyed the perspectives. Chris's opinion reflects mine and what I felt as I played. Glad it was enjoyed by many but I wonder how much of that is the "Nintendo bump" but Naughty Dog. I feel like if another studio tried this the vast majority would call it out as poorly executed.
Jacob
2020-07-22 14:48:22 +0000 UTCCorrection. It was mentioned very briefly at the end of SS+. I guess that's all we get! Oh well.
Ben Williams
2020-07-22 00:31:18 +0000 UTCSeems like the concerns here won't be addressed at all. No discussion of it on SS or SS+ this week :/ Just want to hear Colin and Chris's thoughts on the comments here
Ben Williams
2020-07-21 19:15:52 +0000 UTCChris' bit on Hitler's dog legitimately made me cry. Hilarious.
The Phil
2020-07-21 11:04:44 +0000 UTCChris absolutely nailed my thoughts on this game. Even down to the point of hating the game yet loving that final scene with Joel on the porch <3 I appreciate him not being afraid to be 100% honest
Jeremy
2020-07-20 19:15:48 +0000 UTCLMAO
Jeremy
2020-07-20 19:11:09 +0000 UTCI feel like a crazy person, because Ellie was the homie in Part 1 and I hated her in the game. I hated her, Dina, and Jesse. But I really, REALLY dug Abby, Lev, and Owen, which is clearly an unpopular take. To me, it was extremely obvious that Jesse was just there to be taken away, and Dina had great moments, was brilliantly acted, but was just unlikeable to me and Ellie's motivations don't seem to justify her actions for me. Abby, on the otherhand, was absolutely the victim of Joel, and was so motivated by rage, she literally builds herself and body over the course of YEARS - never skipping a single night of training (to the detriment of her personal life) JUST to be ready for when she finally finds the person who killed her dad and by the time we play as her, we explore the point of her life that's like, okay, what next? This gives her a CLEAR development arch, while admittedly a little on the nose, really resonated with me. it bums me out to see Abby's character / campaign get so much hate, which I actually attribute more to how and when it was presented to the player, more so than the character herself. Riding through Haven as it burns to the ground and the WLF and Scars fight is an ALL TIME gaming sequence for me, and watching Abby fucking BODYYY Ellie, in the theatre was as entertaining as any UFC PPV
Toren R. (KESA)
2020-07-20 16:13:59 +0000 UTCHey Colin, your instinct is right about Neil not writing much of this game. He revealed on Troy’s show that he wrote almost all of TLOU1 and less than half of TLOU2. He also mentioned that he couldn’t get into the weeds of first draft/final draft scripts since he was too busy.
skylakeside
2020-07-20 10:25:22 +0000 UTCOn the subject of boss fights in this game, i generally dont think they belong although if thought out well it can work and i thought the part where youre abby and tommy is on the bridge sniping you was really cool and well done. Not sure if it is a boss fight per se but it was awesome. The rat king i also like chris thought it was too resident evil.
Kyle Melendez
2020-07-20 08:07:36 +0000 UTCWell put, Toren!
Kid-Organic
2020-07-20 05:13:06 +0000 UTCam I the only person who doesn't think joel is particularly shitty for killing the drs in the first game? as revealed by part 2, Ellie is never made aware that she will be killed by the procedure, and even if she was, she's a child. Joel never asked for ellie, in fact, he's more or less coerced into taking her on in the first place, and despite every defense mechanism he's developed over the last 20 years, he STILL begins to love ellie and assumes the burden of KNOWING that every moment he has with ellie after Salt Lake City, doesn't really belong to him. - I don't think he's any shittier than literally any of the other characters in this world. while his actions "doom" mankind, I pity him for not being able to lose another daughter.
Toren R. (KESA)
2020-07-19 22:00:47 +0000 UTCI see them as another faction surviving the apocalypse in Southern California, an area that Abby and Ellie are unfamiliar with which leads both of them to get caught in the traps and circle of influence. “Plot device” is pretty reductive because you could make an argument that the WLF, The Seraphites and even the Fireflies are plot devices.
AllTooEasy_
2020-07-19 20:13:02 +0000 UTCHey Colin and Chris! Colin ive listened to you for years now and ive often heard you say how you would like a ms pac man arcade in your house someday. I want to bring to your attention if you didnt know about it already from arcade 1up is making a ms pac man version to release this fall. Their machines are budget versions of full on arcade cabinets that run from about $300 to $500. I havent bought one yet but like you i am very soon moving into my first house and i plan on getting some of these in my basement(looking for the ninja turtles one). Id be interested to know if ive influenced you possibly in picking this up. Anyways keep up the good work fellas.
Kyle Melendez
2020-07-19 16:39:04 +0000 UTCI think my favorite part of the game is replaying and recording the combat scenarios. There's so much fun I've had playing the game. For me, if I would've connected more with Abby and the second half of the game then this wouldve been my favorite game ever. The 2nd half of the story just didn't land with me at all but I still greatly enjoyed the game.
Brannon H
2020-07-19 16:04:22 +0000 UTCWith regards to you guys saying you wanted to know more about “the rattlers”, I see them as nothing more than a plot device to bring Abbey and Ellie together. Any further development on said group would’ve bloated an already bloated story.
Kid-Organic
2020-07-19 15:33:18 +0000 UTCI believe Tommy had suffered a brain injury with the shot to the head. There are numerous real life cases of people's personalities completely altering after traumatic brain injury. Taking this into account it is a plausible explanation for his seemingly sudden out of character moment at the end of the game.
Dan P
2020-07-19 11:20:31 +0000 UTCAgreed.
Kelly McWilliams
2020-07-19 03:05:33 +0000 UTCNobody criticizing Chris here just wants praise for Sony or The Last of Us 2. We just want legitimate, well thought out criticism. Some jokes are fine, but Chris just didn't give a lot of serious criticism here. That's what people are frustrated with. Chris's Halo video recently is AMAZING and shows me that he really knows what he's talking about with games. That's the Chris I wanted in these podcasts, but we didn't get that.
Ben Williams
2020-07-19 00:45:08 +0000 UTCI think the criticism is coming from Colin being such a huge fan of the first game that we really wanted to just hear his perspective no offense to Chris who has a great view point and plays well off of Colins presepevtie. I can say I was really looking forward to Colins thoughts on the game so much that I joined Paterno.
Kevin Vanwert
2020-07-18 23:38:17 +0000 UTCUnacceptable is a very strong word here but let’s go with it. What is unacceptable is that it comes across very clearly that Chris checked out pretty much as soon as Abbie became the focus. He says he rushed though it and that the game and then all of his critiques are about how nothing lands or is unearned. His “comedy” (which I normally) enjoy was used to derail conversations and undermine things a Colin or viewers found to be important. So much so that he told the same joke about Lev being punched into the garage door as a World star video in both spoilercasts. I’m a Patron because I enjoy the discussion and breaking down of these games and topics, I shouldn’t feel like one of the hosts isn’t taking the game seriously or entering the arena in bad faith.
AllTooEasy_
2020-07-18 15:55:05 +0000 UTCI love Chis’s response to the question of Vulgarity with regards to the awkward sex scene. Ironically it’s really fucked to consider sex vulgar, but visceral mass murder is A’Ok.
BlindRiot
2020-07-18 12:58:12 +0000 UTCI don't really get what the big drama is about this spoilercast. Chris doesn't like it so much, Colin does. That's like the perfect mix for one of these. I loved the game but I want to hear other opinions, and Chris mocking the sillier bits of the game - Dennis! - in no way ruins how much I like it.
John Cal McCormick
2020-07-18 11:53:24 +0000 UTCHis take on the museum scene was perfect. I really don't get all the rage on Chris. He made perfectly valid points.
Botha 90
2020-07-18 09:26:05 +0000 UTCSurely it's the game's job to make you want to like/play as Abby. If it makes you feel like rushing through the Abby parts, the game has failed in what it's trying to achieve.
Botha 90
2020-07-18 09:20:41 +0000 UTCPretty surprised by the comments here, I enjoyed both discussions and as someone who didn't love the game, I appreciated Chris voicing my own problems with it. Also, Chris is a comedian, he's partly here to be funny. Now that's unacceptable because his jokes are about your favourite game?
Your Boi Nicky V
2020-07-18 09:15:18 +0000 UTCExactly. His criticisms are extremely valid. Even druckman said if you don't sympathise with Abby this game isn't gonna work for you and that it's gonna happen for some people
Botha 90
2020-07-18 08:56:01 +0000 UTC"I wish Chris would stop having different opinions to me".
Your Boi Nicky V
2020-07-18 08:50:55 +0000 UTCGotta disagree with everyone here.. I for one actually 100% agree with Chris, which is probably why I enjoyed both of these spoilercasts lol.
Adam Martinez
2020-07-18 01:59:50 +0000 UTCthanks for all the work you do colin and chris it was a good one
Joey
2020-07-18 00:12:45 +0000 UTCChris is on Twitter right now saying Ghost of Tshumia is a better game than last of us. He has gone full troll. I love them both (only like 4-5 hours into ghost) but they aren’t even comparable
AllTooEasy_
2020-07-18 00:10:57 +0000 UTCI believe Chris went into this game not wanting to like it anyway, I don't remember what he said he would score it, but I'm pretty sure he said a 6 or a 7, something that seems nearly impossible to give it. He stated he hated the first game anyway so I wasn't expecting him to all of a sudden like TLoU. However we have to keep in mind that Chris is NOT a games journalist, he has never been, and he's merely a member of nerd culture and nothing more. I don't think he's going into these spoilercasts attempting critical thought, he likes what he likes and TLoU 2 is something he doesn't like and I accept that.
Jessica Gutiérrez
2020-07-17 20:40:24 +0000 UTCChris is a Nintendo, Xbox and PC guy, he's always been semi anti-Sony and overly critical, but I'm 100% sure, if you have been listening to this podcast since it started that it was the reason Colin brought him on board. Colin didn't want this podcast to be PS I Love You XOXO, which was ultimately a giant Sony circle jerk, he wanted someone there to bounce off of so you had the perspective from a pro-Sony gamer who really only plays Playstation games and a not so caring of Sony anything guy in Chris. If there was any finer instance that they're worlds apart when talking about Sony related properties was when Chris doubled down on Cross-Play, one of the least wanted features on consoles, a complete non system seller, but Chris insists that it's a dealbreaker and one of the things Sony HAS to do to come out on top next gen. Another thing Chris does all too often is stress "Backwards compatibility" and mocks Sony's lack of it this generation completely ignoring the fact that Sony is the console that started it with the PS2, then the PS3. Even with all of that, I'm pretty sure that's exactly why Colin wanted Chris here, because Chris isn't a Sony dick rider which makes for an interesting conversation. It's almost like you just want them to gush over TLoU 2, which I LOVED by the way, but I've already played and beaten it, I don't need their opinions anymore, nor should you if you have played it.
Jessica Gutiérrez
2020-07-17 20:06:17 +0000 UTCHe reads a lot of listener mail /shrug
Shane Stevens
2020-07-17 19:32:47 +0000 UTCDoes Colin actually get a word in edgewise in this part? I know Colin loves Chris and his perspective, but he’s actively making me not listen to pods anymore.
YaBoyStevieJay
2020-07-17 19:29:34 +0000 UTCThis is such a weird take. All of the comments about Chris are focused on how poor of a job he does discussing why he doesn't like the game. No one wants him to like it...we just want him to enrich the discussion of it instead of making it unbearable to listen to. There is a huge difference between critiquing and making fun of something and Chris doesn't seem to understand that distinction. It also comes across as really lazy when he can't actually articulate why he doesn't like something and falls back on silly jokes. Nuance is exactly what we want from the discussion and Chris seems incapable of it.
Shane Stevens
2020-07-17 19:11:30 +0000 UTCI agree that Chris is a bad fit for this. A solution might be to have Dagan do casts on complex narrative material and have Chris cast on more traditional game reviews where mechanics and ui are the focus. Alternatively, Chris could work on distinguishing between critiquing something and making fun of it. It really comes across as immature and, more importantly for the podcast,....boring.
Shane Stevens
2020-07-17 19:07:06 +0000 UTCWell, he doesn't critique or discuss the game. He just makes fun of it for 4 hours. Its boring to listen to after the first time he does it. It brings nothing to the discussion at all.
Shane Stevens
2020-07-17 19:00:58 +0000 UTCDamn. I was really looking forward to both of these spoilercasts. Probably more so than any CLS content since I've been a member. But they are both terrible. Its Chris doing C- youtube comedy and Colin reading listener mail for hours. It honestly seems like neither of you put any effort into these. When compared to the work you do on Knockback, where you can see that both you and Dagan have thought about the material on more than a surface level and obviously taken copious notes, the work on these spoilercasts is pretty lazy. Compare Chris' lazy commentary to Colin and Dagan's well considered criticism of The Return of Skywalker. They obviously hated it but it was well reasoned and thought out. They didn't just make stupid jokes about it for 2 hours.
Shane Stevens
2020-07-17 18:52:29 +0000 UTCYeah I couldn't finish either one of the casts. Chris just angry joes his way through them both. There have been many discussions on TLOU2 that have participants on both sides of the fence that are much much better than SS+.
Shane Stevens
2020-07-17 18:47:24 +0000 UTCI admit it...I wanted Death Wish :)
Alec Shaner
2020-07-17 17:33:44 +0000 UTCI think the biggest thing I disagree with Chris about is how they "try too hard to make Abby look like a good person" and how they try to contrast that by making Ellie do really bad things. I got the complete opposite impression, i felt everything they showed about Abby made me realize she and Ellie are really very similar. One of the first things you do with Abby is pet a dog, but I guess most people forget that one of the first things you do as Ellie is also pet a dog. Ellie kills dogs because her main enemy is the WLF, who happen to use dogs. Abby kills horses, because she's mostly killing Seraphites who happen to use horses. A lot of the shit Ellie says on her revenge path mirror the stuff Abby says in her flashbacks. Abby says she would have wanted her dad to do the surgery on her, and it's almost impossible to miss the many times Ellie says she wanted that to happen to her too. Abby's father was murdered, and Ellie's father figure was also murdered (probably her real father too tbh). and the list goes on and on. I think ultimately this game is trying to tell us both of these characters are following the same journey. Abby made the mistake of getting her revenge, which didn't help bring her any peace about her father's death and it started a chain of events that got all of her friends killed. It gives us a little bit of insight into what could happen to Ellie if she goes through with killing Abby. Ellie would probably have never found peace if she had killed Abby, she would have never gotten over Joel's death. And just like how Abby was obviously very guilty and regretted killing Joel, I think Ellie would have regretting killing Abby in the long-run.
Trevor
2020-07-17 16:32:51 +0000 UTCFeel like some people wanted "Death Wish" the video game. That's not what The Last of Us Pt2 is
Michael Carpenter
2020-07-17 16:11:34 +0000 UTCThere can be a good third game that could make this a trilogy. The first game shows the actions of the characters motivated by Love, at least after it develops between Ellie and Joel. The second game shows the actions motivated by pure hate. I believe the third game could use Hope as a motivation. Hope for a cure that can really turn things around for humanity, and it could bring together Abby and Ellie, while giving both characters a way to fulfill their arcs. Abby could help achieve what her dad dreamed of, while Ellie could arrive to the purpose of her immunity and sacrifice herself. I hope against hope that the story can be tied up in a neat bow like this, so we can leave that world behind knowing it's probably going to get better.
Arquimedes Quintero II
2020-07-17 05:41:01 +0000 UTCI can't believe how much I disagree with Chris. He sounds so cynical, it hurts. I have no doubt he'd have a better experience on a second play-through, just like happens with many weird movies on second watching. Too bad games are so long, as this one is, that it discourages multiple play-throughs unless you have nothing else to play.
Arquimedes Quintero II
2020-07-17 05:00:48 +0000 UTCI mean he tells the truth. Game wasn’t very good. Someone has to say it.
Mewgia
2020-07-17 02:32:08 +0000 UTCChris was a wet blanket in this episode, not gonna lie. I love how he was like “the dogs feel weirdly animated” and Colin was like “The dogs are mo-capped.”
Gurnico
2020-07-17 01:32:02 +0000 UTCThanks for part two Colin! A lot of the comments seem to not care for Chris or his takes, but I appreciated them and actually agreed with a lot of them. IMO, just as the game seems to get an unreasonable amount of hate from some quarters, there also seems to be people who want to defend the game as the greatest thing since sliced bread and dismiss any real issues some may have. This level of divisiveness reminds me of the Mass Effect 3 controversy - there is no room for a middle ground, and if you dare to have a middling opinion you'll be shit on from both sides. Nuance is not allowed.
Billski
2020-07-16 20:00:03 +0000 UTCThis episode was a lot better than the previous but I had a really hard time actually determining what you guys liked about the game because of how negative you all (especially Chris) were about the game. I just think a Chris’ take was really bad here overall. He had a hard time articulating why he disliked it so much, blaming the game as a reason that he doesn’t like Abby....yet he has repeatedly stated how he rushed though her parts spamming triangle and hardly paid attention. It’s like if a game is not Destiny, Crash or Doom he just doesn’t care. And it’s time like these I keep wind up questioning why Colin chose Chris to come on board. Oh well, doesn’t change the fact that you all still are my favorite podcast and only podcast I will continue to support.
Joe West
2020-07-16 19:37:17 +0000 UTCHey Colin, Chris, and the CLS community. Just commenting to say that I agree with everything Ben Williams has said. I don't think the game is perfect, and after listening to the second part of the spoilercast, I can see how people would think the game is rather pretentious and preachy. But I enjoyed it. Far from being the worst game ever. Would love to hear a podcast with just Colin talking about the game. His opinions are why I've been following him throughout the past decade. Probably won't happen, but hey, no worries. Still my favorite podcast by far! Keep duckin that turkey or whatever
paul
2020-07-16 16:13:58 +0000 UTCMan I usually like Chris giving his take on things, but I couldn’t make it through the 4 hours of this one. He repeatedly said he just rushed through all the Abby parts, but thinks it’s the games fault he doesn’t like her. I don’t mind anyone who still doesn’t like Abby when the game ends, but he seemed very closed-minded to ever trying to give her a fair shake.
Samuel Ashley
2020-07-16 15:12:59 +0000 UTCI genuinely don't understand how you think he was less negative in this one. He was just constantly making fun of the game and followed any positive comment with a negative one.
Ben Williams
2020-07-16 13:22:50 +0000 UTCHe liked Death Stranding, which has a heavy narrative, but is littered with moments of odd/quirky humor. I loved Death Stranding as well as TLOU2.
TL
2020-07-16 12:56:01 +0000 UTCGlad to see the Infinite love. That game blew my away.
Tyler Cumerford
2020-07-16 12:34:32 +0000 UTCAmd the way he plays games offends you? Lol
Tyler Cumerford
2020-07-16 12:19:59 +0000 UTCI really didn't have a problem with Chris opinions on this game at all like most people did. I adored this game through and through and still nothing he said came off as offensive to me personally and I really don't think it should to anyone else either. No one in these comments had any stake in this game. So, I'm not sure why it has to be offensive to people when someone has a negative opinion of it. I definitely thought he tried to be much less negative than the first one. I agree that Killing the dogs wasn't emotionally draining to me. What got me is killing the person that was guiding them and then watching the dog cry and walk around aimlessly because his master was just killed. That point made me sad. I do disagree with the UI comment from Chris though. Persona 5 has the best UI of all time in my opinion. That game made going through the UI a joy to do. So much so that sometimes I would simply open it up just to see it and appreciate all the thought and time put into the stylized nature of it. So that UI was definitely made better BECAUSE I noticed it. Just some thoughts. Be nice to Chris. Be nice to people in general. It's kind of childish to take his opinions so personally.
Tyler Cumerford
2020-07-16 12:15:30 +0000 UTCYikes, Chris taking a big L in the comments. God Speed, Young King.
Paul McFerron
2020-07-16 01:31:40 +0000 UTCI’d be curious to hear what games Chris likes for their narrative and emotional elements. I’m just not sure that’s his style. He didn’t like the first last of us. I didn’t expect him to have much good to say about the second. Hoping for a TLoU2 knock back :)
Robert Graham
2020-07-16 00:10:19 +0000 UTCHey guys, wish I would have thought about this question before the spoilercast part 2 went up. First off I really loved the game overall, even Abby's perspective, just like Colin. But does anyone else feel like Abby's Dad deserved to die, even more specifically by Joel's hands? I felt like he wouldn't have put his daughter on the operating table if she were immune. And when Marlene specifically asked him that question, not only did he hesitate, but he never answered her. I feel he didn't respond because he was ashamed to admit he wouldn't do that to Abby, ultimately showing himself a hypocrite and coward to his cause. If love to know if you guys agree, or maybe not.
Jonathan Cortez
2020-07-15 23:20:40 +0000 UTCChris is the kind of guy to think the war beast dogs in destiny 2 were the best animated dogs of all time
sam croese
2020-07-15 21:24:03 +0000 UTCSame here. This game is just a tale of revenge, hate, and love. It’s not trying to preach anything unless the player comes with that preconceived notion and defensiveness. I think this is the primary reason behind all the rage on the game is that’s it’s trying to tell people revenge is bad and that’s it’s too simplistic. However it’s telling the story with perspective from different sides just like the first game was about parental love and the end was controversial because of the effects of this unconditional love. This is something Colin went into a little bit with perspective but as usual in this spoilercast, Chris got him sidetracked with a silly joke.
Mason M
2020-07-15 20:55:48 +0000 UTCJust to wanted to point out that I loved this game start to finish. I never once felt sympathetic to Abbie. I keep hearing people say that the game tries to make you feel bad or sympathetic to her and I think that people are just being too guarded or defensive. The narrative of the game is just the narrative of the game. There isn’t an agenda or themes being hoisted over you. It just is the story. I understand things are personal but sometimes it just is what it is and you don’t have to like it.
AllTooEasy_
2020-07-15 20:42:33 +0000 UTCOkay with 20 minutes left I’m actually turning it off, can’t do Chris on this topic anymore. I tried. Really, really wish you would’ve done this one solo, Colin. 2 hours of Chris shitting on the game was more than enough to know this second installment wasn’t going to be any different. I’m glad I got some more insight from you on your takes, but man, you could’ve gotten way more in these two hours if Chris wasn’t trying to make jokes about dogs dying saying “so this is where it ends.” Just really, really bad stuff from Chris, here. 4 hours of it. It’s the vibe I get from shit like Funhaus and all those other groups I avoid and this just wasn’t what I was hoping for at all regarding CLS covering TLOU2 in depth
Ian (616Entertainment)
2020-07-15 19:48:31 +0000 UTCI appreciate your extended input on this one, Colin. Chris finding everything funny or ‘hilarious’ or just completely failing to make any connection with this game is still mind boggling, though.
Ian (616Entertainment)
2020-07-15 19:28:55 +0000 UTCI don’t know why I came back hoping Chris would suddenly have a good take but dude.... how can you suggest that everyone inherently understands the two sides to every argument? Look outside. We’re living through most divided times of a generation, a story that takes a step to stop the “othering” is incredibly important right now.
Oliver Johnson
2020-07-15 18:19:23 +0000 UTCMaybe it's just me but I couldn't help but feel that there's just so much more in this game that surprisingly 4 hours wasn't enough to cover it all. Mabye an episode later on looking back at the game after time has passed or after you finishing NG+. Or something structured like for example covering the Prologue, Day 1, Day 2, and Day 3. Then another episode covering Abby's Prologue, Day 1, Day 2, Day 3 and it's finale. Cause I feel there were some tidbits that could've been answered or have more context for had it not jumped around in conversation. Otherwise I thought these two episodes were great and I felt Chris was too hard on the game which unfortunately answered my concerns weeks ago of him seeing the leaks and already talking about them on his podcast at length with someone who immediately was against it before playing it. Which might've affected his overall experience. But like you said if only we could've seen how this would've turned out if the leaks didn't happen. Sorry for going long here, hope you're both well and may your survival be long...
Marcus Brown
2020-07-15 13:38:53 +0000 UTCRight? I don't get this criticism. Naughty Dog games have never been about choice.
Ben Williams
2020-07-15 12:26:31 +0000 UTCI think the reason Hotline Miami was used is a reflection of how you play through the game "Every Last One Of Them" In Hotline Miami you have to kill every enemy's to clear the stages but it is actually possible to get through TLOU2 without killing anyone (Except scripted ones in cutscenes)
Tony Colton
2020-07-15 12:03:35 +0000 UTCColin wants the game to be more gamey then when it’s more gamey he complains about the notebook not getting wet. Not being mean just bringing up a fact.
Myles Thompson
2020-07-15 11:06:40 +0000 UTCGreat job guys!! If ND decides to make part 3, perhaps it will follow Tommy as he tracks the migration routes of the infected. 🙄
Jeff Pollard
2020-07-15 10:35:47 +0000 UTCYeah I kinda felt the same way. Abby is just a bit of a beast so I cant help but like her.
Reuben Barrett
2020-07-15 10:34:34 +0000 UTCI appreciated this extra discussion. And I really agreed with Chris' thoughts, as well as Colin's. I enjoyed the heck out of this game. I legit think Ellie's campaign is PHENOMENAL, and I had a ton of fun moments. But the overall length, and emphasis on Abbey (a character which I somewhat liked at first, but liked LESS as her campaign went on) made this something I didn't love, but really liked. As a side note, the way I looked at this game and its content is conceptually like so: in The Man in the High Castle, the Irish resistance fighter refers to something he calls 'the box'. He said (paraphrasing) for days like this, I put it into the box; close it, then forget about it. I feel that with this game: all the f'd up, convoluted, disturbing, thrilling and sometimes disappointing stuff all goes into that box, and I move on.
JusticeSoulTuna
2020-07-15 09:33:23 +0000 UTCI dont agree with Chris on pretty much everything he said, however Tommy giving out his socials rant made me lol. I completely agree with you I dont think taking questions really worked on these spoilercasts, however them just talking wouldnt have worked either. Chris didnt like this game at all, in any respect
BigArty
2020-07-15 09:28:21 +0000 UTCChrist dude. Just play the friggin game and decide for yourself. I bet you’ll be very surprised.
BigArty
2020-07-15 09:24:09 +0000 UTCY'know I think this game would've been soooo much better if it was marketed as a completely separate story from the first. Imagine thinking this was just gonna be a game about Abby. They could've portrayed events from Abby's perspective maybe she doesn't know exactly who she's looking for to get revenge for her father you play the whole first part of the game as Abby you get connected to all her friends and their dogs. And only then when you reach the climax do you realize that that the whole time you're searching for Joel then things play as normal through Ellie's side. Then you could actually feel bad for doing the things your doing but also you care about Ellie. I think things would've been way better received this way.
Empty Symbol
2020-07-15 09:01:37 +0000 UTCFull disclosure: haven't played the game. Don't plan to. Loved the first, but I get what the critics are saying. It was never really about the game play for me. The story beats and the way it made me sympathize with Joel while he attempted to rescue Ellie at the end was brilliant. I was very skeptical when they announced a sequel. With a one year daughter and a full-time job I just don't have the energy for a 25 hour lecture on why revenge is bad. I mean, I get fatigued just listening to these spoiler casts. My biggest gripe has got to be how stupid they seem to have written Joel and Tommy in. Hearing how everything transpires just sounds contrived TBH. I might take it up after baby #2 - when I have some FMLA to burn. Love the podcasts guys. I'm actually glad Chris didn't mince words. I appreciate the honesty. Aloha
tobin_asai999
2020-07-15 07:25:24 +0000 UTCI think the way Part II ends with the Catalina screen and how Neil has been in interviews, that part 3 is coming. It’d be nice to have it be the PS5 swan song. The bench moment you’re talking about takes place before you get to the news station. The best part about that whole situation is if that you followed the notes, you’d learn about those deserters. And if you listen well enough you can hear them in the bedroom. What actually happens is they’re inside the bedroom, and by triggering the bench, it opens that door and they come out of it to rush you. I played around with this and put trap mines by the door the 2nd time I played this and they actually killed a guy as he came out. Pretty cool stuff. I knew as soon as ground zero was introduced that it was just a plot point so they could add the rat king. It was set up well in terms of mood and atmosphere but the whole time I was like c’mon guys. It’s interesting because I have no problem killing anything in games but I can’t watch surgery operations in fictional TV shows. 😄
NeO JD
2020-07-15 06:33:53 +0000 UTCI think that would be a stretch considering Abby’s dad was the lead doctor they had for the cure.
NeO JD
2020-07-15 06:28:37 +0000 UTCI think the few times they did it here worked well. Thought it was an interesting choice to color these moments red as well.
NeO JD
2020-07-15 06:27:11 +0000 UTCNeil himself has talked about this. That Joel has grown so much in those years in Jackson that he let himself get soft. He even revealed that a motivation for Troy in Joel’s death scene is he should’ve known better. I believe this is kind of hinted at in the hotel flashback as well, about how they keep taking people in, and about that one couple who ran off and ended up dying in the hotel.
NeO JD
2020-07-15 06:25:38 +0000 UTCChris had some many gripes about the game it’s hard to believe him when he says he liked more so then not.
Justin Hales
2020-07-15 06:08:01 +0000 UTClol. I couldn’t stand Manny at first. It wasn’t until that section started and he was there that I was like “Hey, it’s Manny! Ayyy” 😄
NeO JD
2020-07-15 06:05:58 +0000 UTCHotline Miami IS TLOU2. I think they were making a cheeky nod at the gameplay of both games being so similar.
Tyler Cumerford
2020-07-15 06:05:03 +0000 UTCChris was great this episode. I pretty much felt the same. Fuck those dogs. I like dogs but I already don't like german shepards. And I'm glad I eviscerated everyone I came across. Abbie's arc was basically anime filler to me. So take that cocksuckas 7/10!!!
There’s No I in LLC
2020-07-15 06:03:58 +0000 UTCI was going to write this as well. But these guys will never play it! 😄
NeO JD
2020-07-15 06:02:39 +0000 UTCYeah, the reaction to this game alone shows most people don’t. lol
NeO JD
2020-07-15 06:02:00 +0000 UTCI love this game. I kinda prefer the ending of the first game over the ending of the second game. I understand what they did. The only thing i disliked was when i had to control abby to chase after Ellie in the theatre. I had a moment where i didnt want to play the game, I had to take a break for a couple hours before getting back into it. I have never wanted to fail so much as i did in the boss fight, ok Ellie killed me i happy with that conclusion. I had to bite my lip and push thru thst boss fight and thank god Lev appealed to Abby's humanity. At the end when Ellie was about to kill Abby i was relieved that she gave up knowing how much turmoil they both went thru.
Jordan Cunningham
2020-07-15 05:55:25 +0000 UTCA cutscene would never be equal to both sides. Not even close. You’ve already had a game to get to know Ellie and Joel. Placing you in abbys shoes was the best way to clearly see where she was coming from in terms of her motivation. You don’t spend years training, focussing, planning and obsessing to get your goal over with. Her torturing Joel before delivering the killing blow perfectly encapsulates her journey. And by sparing Ellie and Tommy she demonstrates Joel was her only goal. She’s not a monster. They were innocent strangers to her. Some humanity still resides within her. Her turn on the WLF was telegraphed. She was disillusioned with them and their goals. The enemy she had been fighting blindly suddenly had names and faces. Again, this is all set up because we got to play as her. A cutscene could never of done that. Edit: @G I don’t know why I can’t respond to your below comment so I’ll do it here. No. She’s not a monster. Why would you hesitate after so many years of striving to this ? Because a stranger said stop ? Not a chance. Joel beat a man to death after another one already gave him the info he needed. And he did it for a girl he had known for weeks. Abby knew her father her whole life. Joel didn’t let anyone live. Abby did. Neither are monsters. Merely Products of this world. But if I had to pick who was the bigger psycho, Joel takes the Gold medal.
sam croese
2020-07-15 05:18:13 +0000 UTCChris chides the game for a lack of choice while acknowledging naughty dog flat out doesn’t do multiple endings or player choice.
sam croese
2020-07-15 04:36:26 +0000 UTCChris plays every game like it’s doom or cod
Dom posa
2020-07-15 04:03:45 +0000 UTCIt’s very of putting how cynical, sarcastic and unfunny Chris is in these two parts. I think his mindset was really mismatched with this game. If you walk in to anything with the thought that it’s funny and stupid, of course the reaction is going to be laughing at everything and not talking it seriously. If I go into a horror movie and just be laughing and not focusing on the plot or the details, then it’s not going to be scary, this can be done with anything. I also disliked how the entire two parts are based off of questions. I know there’s a lot of effort that goes into these podcasts and I appreciate it, though it may be better to start in describing the story, specific parts of the game, giving your take and taking in an appropriate question. It feels like the whole 4 hours are the listener questions segment from Sacred Symbols. These were pretty disappointing and never went beyond just looking at the surface of the game. Lev wasn’t mentioned for example and the most important part, the Future Days song was completely neglected. I hope to see better discussion of games in spoilers in the future, close in quality to the discussions on Knockback.
Mason M
2020-07-15 03:49:39 +0000 UTCColin, please don't take this as hate in any way because I love you but, Chris was my fucking spirit animal on this one. He brought up most the issues I had. I didn't hate the game but, had most the same issues. At the end of the day, I loved the first one because I felt like it was asking a philosophical question in a very interesting way. In this one, I felt like they were trying to SHOVE a message down my throat. I do agree with you that if this is the theme they wanted to go with, they should have committed and killed Ellie. Either way, loved the discussion. You guys are the best XOXO
Silentandcliche
2020-07-15 03:32:27 +0000 UTCI agree with Chris. I'd care more about the dog deaths if one of them said "The rest is silence" and died smoking a cigar.
Carlos Quintanilla
2020-07-15 02:46:21 +0000 UTCI finally beat it and never had anything spoiled for me. TLOU part 1 + 2 is the best story telling I’ve ever experienced. Can’t wait for TLOU 3. Predicting Abby finds Fire Flies at Catalina Island, they can finish her dads work but they need Ellie (cause they/we don’t know yet that Abby is also immune.)
Jeremy Craves
2020-07-15 02:25:24 +0000 UTCOut of everything in this video, Chris’s final comments on taste and snoody essayists resonated most with me. Kinda disappointed that y’all didn’t discuss future days and how it ties the whole narrative together, but otherwise it was interesting to hear your thoughts on my favorite game of all time.
GameSimp
2020-07-15 01:53:13 +0000 UTCGreat podcast. I am a little surprised that I haven’t heard anyone mention (Colin specifically because I know I remember him mentioning liking this in left behind) disappointment that they didn’t integrate using human enemies and infected against each other. Each environment (minus a few spots that they clearly prompted it to set off a set piece) was segmented as a human enemy or infected spot. This is really disappointing to me because I figured this would be built upon from left behind and could have made for some really cool combat scenarios where you set traps essentially. Am I the only one that felt this was a missed opportunity?
Kyle Day
2020-07-15 01:39:38 +0000 UTCUnfortunate that the two of you did not discus Joel's decision to reveal his name to the WLF. I don't see that with all the people Joel has crossed he would reveal his real name to a group of strangers. Bad writing in my opinion.
Joshua m. anderson
2020-07-15 01:34:33 +0000 UTCHe said on the Kinda Funny Spoilercast that Part 2 was actually also about love too. I gather he's well aware of the famous quote Chris repeated: "The opposite of love isn't hate, but indifference." I've been using that quote frequently to explain the main theme of the game. The game is also largely about tribalism, which Neil also mentions in that podcast episode, which is commonly defined as love for an in-group and hatred of an out-group. I see both games as sort of a double concept album on love and it's consequences.
Jake Z
2020-07-15 00:46:46 +0000 UTCI appreciated the two part spoilercast, think the game deserves it. (Actually probably deserves a 10 hour spoilercast). There's a lot to think about with it, because the game is really good but also has serious flaws. I'm really glad I played through the game once, but now that I'm going through new game plus, I don't think I'm going to finish it a second time. It's too long and drawn out and I'm really not a fan of the plot. While the gameplay is pretty good overall the 30 fps does bother me some, especially being used to playing the Part 1 Remaster.
Matthew Cooper
2020-07-14 23:39:47 +0000 UTCStill didn’t talk about the weed part .. smh I’m disappointed
Cole Minder
2020-07-14 23:36:29 +0000 UTCYeah, didn't feel like he took this podcast seriously. I want to hear his opinion, but the jokes were not good and pretty frustrating as they weren't fair or even good criticism.
Ben Williams
2020-07-14 23:34:44 +0000 UTCYeah I feel like he didn't have space or use the space he had to really explain that.
Ben Williams
2020-07-14 23:32:34 +0000 UTCTotally agree!
Ben Williams
2020-07-14 23:31:35 +0000 UTCMe too dude, I murdered every dog in the game, fuck 'em..
Matthew Cooper
2020-07-14 23:23:31 +0000 UTCI listened to two spoilercast on this game and it still hasn't conveyed what you liked about this game. I only know you like it because you said you do. But you didn't go into what about the story and the themes spoke to you.
Bogey Zero
2020-07-14 23:21:45 +0000 UTCThanks for the cast gents. It was nice to hear the perspective of someone who genuinely didn't like the game without being an asshole about it. I think the game is excellent, but also probably a bit overpraised. Neil has described his story telling as "Simple stories, complex characters" and I think this perfectly describes this game. I think people looking for deeper meaning are missing the point. It's a revenge tale, and explores how hate leads to nowhere and I don't think it needs to be anything more complicated than that. A couple of things that bothered me, just some constructive criticism if you're open to it. You talked for nearly 5 hours collectively and didn't really discuss Lev at all, I think he was the most interesting addition to the later half of the story Also, you can't joke about murdering every animal in the ocean and wiping bats off the face of the earth and then complain about having to kill a digital dog. I consider myself an animal rights supporter, don't eat them, don't hurt them, but I fucking wasted every dog in the game with zero remorse. Fuck those things. Cheers lads
Big Swingin' Rick
2020-07-14 21:49:42 +0000 UTCcompletely agree with everything here. well said.
Caleb Beck
2020-07-14 21:19:42 +0000 UTCI think an interesting thing about her is that maybe it's not necessary to like her or root for her, but over the course of her arc they ask you to at least understand her motivations. your mileage might vary.
Caleb Beck
2020-07-14 21:14:05 +0000 UTCAnother great discussion. Lots of points I hadn't taken into consideration, especially about how signficant Tommy's role is.
Bree Reeves
2020-07-14 20:40:06 +0000 UTCTo be fair, this is the kid that cussed out Bill when they first met. Killed a guy for the first time and went, "I totally nailed guy." There are other instances in Part 1, both with Joel and without, where she mumbles expletives in combat. Plus, she curses like a sailor 90% of the time. I wouldn't say it's out of character.
Bree Reeves
2020-07-14 20:38:57 +0000 UTCHey guys, I just finished listening to this, and I hate to say that these 2 spoilercasts have been very disappointing. I love pretty much everything you guys do, but this spoilercast was so incredibly negative. After the first part, I understood why people thought Chris was being too negative, but I didn't think it was that big of a deal. After listening to this part, I really agree with that sentiment. Anything positive that Colin would bring up, Chris would usually respond with something negative. When Chris was asked about a positive aspect of the game, he always found something to criticize. A couple points of observation: 1. I think I have figured out what has bothered me about some of these spoilercasts and reviews and why people seem to think Colin hates games (like God of War) that he really likes. Colin & Chris are both very nit-picky critics. Both of you seem to latch onto things that really bother you and talk about those things far more than the overall positives. For example, Chris praises the UI in this episode with a sentence or two, but then proceeds to spend the next 3 minutes talking about how he couldn't access his backpack while on a horse, which is such a small part of the game and really not a big deal. You both tend to say very broad, generic things about what you like and then dive really deeply into what you don't like, so naturally people think you hate the game. I want to hear you dive into the positives more and really describe what worked along with what didn't. Positive feedback on a product is just as useful as negative. 2. I do agree that Colin didn't challenge Chris enough in these spoilercasts. Chris says some stuff that Colin obviously disagrees with, and I wish they would just say that. Just say, "I really don't see it that way" or something. It doesn't need to be personal or anything, but I think that would make the conversation more substantive. 3. You guys really didn't talk about some of the major plot points and story scenes of the game, and I think this is a product of the structure of your spoilercasts and Knockback episodes that discuss movies or TV shows in particular. You generally focus on characters and themes and then audience questions, but not really on plot. In this spoilercast, you only made a very brief reference to the final scene of the game between Joel & Ellie on the porch which is such an impactful scene, both emotionally and from a story perspective. You barely talked about the first Abby flashback and what it was like to see her dad dead, and you barely talked about the time at the country home with Dina, the ending fight, and the final scene at the home. I find it much more helpful if you at least pick specific, important scenes that you have to talk about; otherwise, you skip over them. If you want to keep the structure of focusing on characters/themes, that's fine, but you should go through the plot beforehand and highlight the most impactful scenes and make sure to discuss them. 4. Finally, it felt like there was so little emotion from either of you when discussing this game. At its heart, it's an emotional game. Chris referred to the final fight as just girls grunting loudly for 5 minutes. Colin spoke about how he didn't want to press the buttons in the final fight, and I REALLY wanted to hear more about that because I felt the same way. Chris kept speaking about how the main themes are so "obvious" and stuff that everyone believes like revenge is bad and the cycle of violence doesn't help anyone. However, at the same time he spoke about just wanting to murder Abby and not caring about her or her side of the story. Isn't he just proving the opposite of his point? He wasn't even willing to give Abby a chance because of what she did to a character that he loved so much. He wanted revenge so badly that he dismissed an entire half of the game. That's really interesting, and I'm sure other people felt that way, but you all didn't dive deep emotionally. Was it not emotionally powerful that images of Joel were both the impetus for Ellie fighting Abby in the end and letting her go? Were neither of you moved by the fact that Ellie actually let her desire for revenge go in the end and decided to move on? Overall, I think I would like to hear a podcast with just Colin about this game. It's clear that Chris didn't like it or appreciate it, which is totally fine and his opinion, and it was good to hear. But 4 hours of mostly trashing and ridiculing a game that a lot of people love gets really frustrating, especially when it drowns out the voice of the other who clearly really loved the game and wrestled with its content. Chris seemed to play this game with the idea that he already figured out what Naughty Dog was trying to say, and I think he really missed major points of the game because of that. I don't think Colin did that, and I'd love to hear more of his thoughts, especially his positive ones. I'd also like to hear how Colin emotionally wrestled with this game. I love what you guys do! I love CLS and want the best for it. Please don't take anything here personally, but just some feedback to improve the product.
Ben Williams
2020-07-14 20:30:54 +0000 UTCChris, Last of us Part 2 Spoilercast is not the place to practice your half baked standup comedy. I get it you don’t like the game but the sarcasm was over the top. You openly admit that you rushed through the game and then claim that half the points the game tries to make didn’t land. Stalkers never pushed me like “a little girl”, Abbie and Ellie’s end game fight was just “2 girls grunting for awhile”, enemies talking to The ghost of “Dennis”, Hitler’s Dog... Hardy Har Har.
AllTooEasy_
2020-07-14 20:17:09 +0000 UTCI still don't get why Colin liked the game.
Jake Z
2020-07-14 20:11:55 +0000 UTCNaughty dog would make an amazing Metal Gear game. The stealth and gun play in this game made me long for another trek with SSNNNAAAAKKKEEE!
Gr4vity400
2020-07-14 20:08:48 +0000 UTCNeil Druckman said Part I was about love and Part II was about hate. It was at a gaming event several years ago after the game was announced.
John Nelson
2020-07-14 20:07:27 +0000 UTCI do not agree that the game decides that Joel's decision was evil. The finale says to me that he would do it all again out of love for Ellie, because a world without her is no world at all. This is something that the game is asking you to emphasize with. For me, the game is all about perspective and really wants the player to view every conflict from every side. The plot seems to want to ask more questions than making statements (something not many games I have experienced are interested in). Totally understand why the narrative didn't hit the same way for you though. Take care!
Mattveego
2020-07-14 19:51:03 +0000 UTCthey meant nothing to me. owen... yeah what a great guy. cheating apparently is a great quality. i'll keep that in mind in my future relationships lol
B00ch
2020-07-14 19:47:27 +0000 UTCGood podcast, boys
Caleb Greer
2020-07-14 19:29:54 +0000 UTCI can in fact confirm that giraffes exist; I have a picture of myself petting one while I was wearing a replica of Joel's watch.
David Graham
2020-07-14 19:24:23 +0000 UTCCrass comparison. You could feel how desperate Chris was to justify his inability to empathize with Abby.
Jake Z
2020-07-14 19:01:40 +0000 UTCWhat Tommy did to Manny’s head he will forever be the good guy
Crackhead Bob
2020-07-14 18:43:49 +0000 UTCJust platinumed the game last night. Can’t wait to listen.
Quintin Propes
2020-07-14 18:18:10 +0000 UTCI completely agree that the writers tried so hard to make the player dislike Ellie. When ever you snipe an enemy with the bow, she always says “Dick!” or “Fuck you!”. It’s so overt and completely out of character for her.
Uppernorwood .
2020-07-14 18:10:29 +0000 UTCColin, quick correction on the word macguffin, a macguffin is usually an object or device or even person that all the characters are going after to drive the plot forward. Like the Ark in Indiana Jones and Holy Grail in The Last Crusade, the One Ring in LOTR, the briefcase in Pulp Fiction, or even Private Ryan in Saving Private Ryan. I would not consider the Seraphites or the Rattlers as macguffins.
Bogey Zero
2020-07-14 18:07:42 +0000 UTCI couldn't disagree with Colin more regarding Joel. None of the characters are good or bad. They are all shades of grey. This game hinges on us believing that Joel's decision at the end of the first game was pure evil and it doesn't work for a lot of people. At best it was a moral conundrum. Most players would empathise and understand Joel for rescuing Ellie. If the fireflies didn't rob her of her agency by opting to operate on her right away while she was unconscious maybe that would make more sense. The second game portrays the fireflies as these altruistic knights in shining armour but the first game reveals that they are no better than any other faction doing what they can to survive. The lack of infected in the second game also surprised me. Civilisation has recovered a great deal through the WLF, Jackson and the setaphite Island. There is next to zero tension with respect to worry about infected. I wouldn't have been so quick to throw Ellie's life for the chance for a cure given that they are a non-issue in the second game. It's mostly human enemies you fight here. I suppose you can't have a bloater scream "They got Billy". The game also distinguishes itself from the first by having most kills be first degree as opposed to second degree in the first game. Most encounters in the first are Joel and Ellie getting out of a bad situation or a trap. In the second game Ellie is not worried about her survival and is choosing to leave a place where she is safe to kill everyone in her way. I also would be remiss if I didn't mention that Joel's death came too early. It would have been more impactful if something else that was devastating happened in Jackson. Maybe it was ambushed and torched and Ellie, Joel and Jessie were pursuing justice or going after abducted captives. Joel could have found himself trapped in seatle and confronting the full blowback of his choice with Ellie. That would have given the best pay-off for the story. All in all, nobody can dispute that everyone involved didn't try their best. Those over the narrative and plot and characterisation obviously did their best too but in my opinion it just isn't as good, as tight, as well-paced and well written as the first game. That's just testament to the first game and its enduring appeal. I honestly think that the first game has one of the best endings for anything in fiction. I would have been happy with just one game with an ambigious ending. Stay say everyone and take care.
Liammy
2020-07-14 18:04:50 +0000 UTCLet’s goooo favorite ps4 game gets two spoiler casts!
Bryan Lozano
2020-07-14 18:02:46 +0000 UTCJust a heads up, Abby and Lev did in fact make it to the Fireflies. The new main menu screen after beating the game is Catalina Island, the place the Firefly on the radio told them to go. A lot of people thought it was the round resort building in Santa Barbara, but Neil Druckman himself confirmed it's Catalina Island.
Bogey Zero
2020-07-14 17:54:58 +0000 UTCI only saw one, in Eugene’s hideout! There’s also one Ellie’s room right at start which I missed as it seems a weird place to have console. Must have been pretty dark too. Didn’t know about the one at the stadium. I must just not be very observant of details like that as my playthrough took over 30 hours.
Uppernorwood .
2020-07-14 17:52:02 +0000 UTCColin, you wondered what the reception to this game would be if no leaks had occurred. You've also frequently mentioned that you don't like it when developers do not respect your time. I avoided all leaks prior to playing the game. I'm just one opinion, but I hated the Abby story line and felt like it completely wasted my time. They could have achieved the same effect with a cut scene or 2 if they wanted me to see both sides. I felt absolutely zero empathy for her because like Mel said, she was a piece of shit (just my opinion!) She obsessed over finding Joel for years and then couldn't just be satisfied with killing him, but had to torture him. And then acts offended when Tommy and Ellie show up because she let them go. What the hell did she expect when she brutally killed Joel in front of his brother and Ellie. And to top if off, she has no issue suddenly killing her WLF friends to protect Lev. However, I will not be sending any mean correspondence to anyone about this game, I'll just be passing if they release a #3.
Alec Shaner
2020-07-14 17:40:14 +0000 UTCAlso, chris is wrong about "no UI" being good enough that it shouldn't just get out of the way. Persona 5 has amazing UI that is over the top
Andrew Christensen
2020-07-14 17:37:39 +0000 UTCWhen Chris said something to the effect of, "I'm an adult; all adults understand this message about your perspective shaping your concepts of good and evil," I was like, dude, I love you, but do you even know what year it is? lolol
Josh McKinney
2020-07-14 17:25:11 +0000 UTCI finished this game recently and I just couldn’t help but feel like this game was two separate games that they stitched together at the cost of a lot of character development for the new characters and some old ones. Tommy lost a lot. He lost the love of his life and his brother and he will never know that Ellie tried to grant his request and didn’t do it. It’s obvious Abby will meet with the fire flies on Catalina and that the third game might be about Ellie finally sacrificing herself for the vaccine.
Kenneth Oms
2020-07-14 17:18:13 +0000 UTCThis game left me gutted, and I ended up feeling stronger for Abby than Ellie, unbelievably. I appreciate the two part recording!
Steven Camilo
2020-07-14 17:10:32 +0000 UTCI personally loved the game. Naughty Dog messed with my head cause I hated being Abby at first but grew to like her. There were certain points where Abby was killing Ellie and I stopped playing cause I didn’t want neither to die. I wasn’t spoiled at all so I went in not knowing anything. I don’t understand the negativity of the game it’s great. I didn’t like Chris being so negative and Colin not defending the game. Maybe have a debate. Would it be possible to get Dustins opinion on the game? The spoiler cast was still great. Love your work. Can’t wait for Ghost on Friday
Daniel Margaca
2020-07-14 17:09:42 +0000 UTCWhen Colin said 'Troy is dead' I audibly said 'what the FUCK', thinking 2020 took yet another
Andrew Christensen
2020-07-14 17:06:32 +0000 UTCBy the end of the game... I was so torn. I really loved Abby’s side of the story. Of course I love Ellie too. The story ended just the way I wanted it. The first game is still my favorite game of all time, though. Part II lands at 5 on my list. 1.) The Last of Us 2.) Bioshock Infinite 3.) God of War (2018) 4.) Red Dead Redemption II 5.) The Last of Us Part II
D'Ante Almo
2020-07-14 17:05:16 +0000 UTCIt is implied that Abby and Lev made it to the Fireflies because the end of game title screen shows the rowboat on the beach of Catalina Island, which is where the Fireflies are!
Adrian Fishler
2020-07-14 16:56:56 +0000 UTCI don't want to play a third game; they should have just killed Ellie off.
Max Stahl
2020-07-14 16:52:14 +0000 UTCDid Chris really compare Abby and her Dad, to Hitler and his Dog??😂
Louis
2020-07-14 16:50:53 +0000 UTCAbby is probably my least liked character in any video game ever. I for the life of me can understand why anyone would like her.
DeadCaptainJames
2020-07-14 16:45:34 +0000 UTCI shockingly enjoyed Abby's story-line more than Ellie's. At the beginning I hated Abby, over time I found myself liking her more. But mostly I liked meeting and getting to know the characters that Ellie would soon murder. Getting to know Owen and Mel made previous things that happened in the game horribly tragic. Things that I found satisfying as Ellie, suddenly made my stomach turn over. While it is kind of a trope to show "not everything is black and white". I thought they pulled it off extremely well. I'm super glad I avoided spoilers.
Random Integer
2020-07-14 16:37:06 +0000 UTCLater on in the game, someone is playing Jak & Daxter in the stadium - stuck at the lava stage early on in the game lol. I didn't find it immersion breaking in the grand scheme of things. Also, I only saw 3 ps3s in my 3 playthroughs! Not sure where you were seeing them all 🤔
Adrian Fishler
2020-07-14 16:35:46 +0000 UTCBeen refreshing my feed all day waiting for this. Yes!
John Fazio
2020-07-14 16:18:52 +0000 UTCI'll be honest. I didn't like the second half of the story much at all. I still think the game was well made and the environments were amazing. The set pieces were spectacular, and the combat was fun. In saying that I'd probably give the game an 8/10 because I was so disappointed in the story. Thank you for this spoilercast, I really enjoy these!
Anthony J Sanchez
2020-07-14 16:17:25 +0000 UTCAwesome.
Makuz01
2020-07-14 16:13:25 +0000 UTCThanks fellas!
Colton Johnson
2020-07-14 16:13:08 +0000 UTCI do agree with people that wanted to hear more about what Colin though of the game. The first part seemed to be mainly about what Chris didn't like. Which is fine, but I've heard so much criticism and hate towards this game, it's just getting a bit tiring. But, I enjoyed the previous part nonetheless, and and I'm sure this one will be a nice listen while on a rainy walk in a few minutes.
Marius Skarsem Pedersen
2020-07-14 16:12:52 +0000 UTCTommy isn’t the bad guy. I can prove this beyond reasonable doubt because when he’s sniping Abby and Manny she says “Damn he’s good” and then later; “Shit he’s good” in reference to Tommy. Good is the opposite of bad. I rest my case your honour. (I’m looking forward to listening to the episode!)
Michael Carpenter
2020-07-14 16:11:06 +0000 UTCShoot I've got planning meetings till 3pm dunno if I can handle more listening today.
Chris GameOverCholo
2020-07-14 16:06:52 +0000 UTCPS: can’t wait to hear what Dagan thinks about it eventually!
Robert Graham
2020-07-14 16:05:42 +0000 UTCHell yeah been waiting for this, it'll make my day at work tomorrow bearable. Thanks for all the entertainment you've provided me with over the years Colin. I honestly don't understand what everyone's issue with part one of this spoilercast was I loved it.
Jake Mcaulay
2020-07-14 16:05:16 +0000 UTCThanks for going the extra mile with this one. TLoU 2 is a wild ride, and I appreciate 4 hours of content all about it :)
Robert Graham
2020-07-14 16:04:55 +0000 UTC
