KnockBack, Episode 147: Shadow of the Colossus

(With the fur.)

Colin Moriarty

Complaints about the game's control are exceedingly common, but it doesn't mean you have to agree. =)

Colin Moriarty

=)

Colin Moriarty

Oh, that's possible. It's still not fun, though. =)

Colin Moriarty

To each his own, I suppose!

Colin Moriarty

We wouldn't do an episode on something we didn't watch or play through completely.

Colin Moriarty

I will begrudgingly do it... and that's all I can promise!

Colin Moriarty

Yeah. I'm sick of seeing it in the vote.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, I still watch him. =)

Colin Moriarty

The last boss in the Bluepoint version was obnoxious, but I don't have anything to compare it to.

Colin Moriarty

I think I did mention that? Maybe not.

Colin Moriarty

We won't get to God of War for a while, so temper your timing expectations. =)

Colin Moriarty

The struggle should be in the design of the game, not in making lumbering or imprecise controls. (Sony says E-CO, so I'll stick with that, though I did say EYE-CO for years.)

Colin Moriarty

Indeed.

Colin Moriarty

Heh heh.

Colin Moriarty

LOL.

Colin Moriarty

That's possible. He could be short-sighted, blinded by love.

Colin Moriarty

But that's my point! Even in 2005, those controls were bad.

Colin Moriarty

The game definitely tries your patience.

Colin Moriarty

Well THAT is a common, old-school decorating motif. We used to do that on the Island.

Colin Moriarty

Enjoy. =)

Colin Moriarty

We hope you like our show!

Colin Moriarty

<3

Colin Moriarty

She had that metal-plated armor, and the boots with the fur -- WITH THE FURRRRRR!

Kevin Cooper

Always bewildering to me when people complain about the controls. I don’t remember having an issue on PS2 or PS4.

Hi5 Music

Finally Avatar!!!! tnks Colin 🥰

Marco Maluf

Im surprised that neither of you dug a little deeper into why Agro doesn’t always listen. On a second play through it clicked in my mind that he isn’t listening because he can sense that evil is growing inside of Wander in the form of Dormin.

Kameron Clem

Interesting comment towards the end that you put Druckman and Kojima in the same category. Really don't see Druckman as being as accomplished or creative as a game designer as Kojima whatsover. I think his team has refined their gameplay over the years to an incredible point but I don't think outside of cinematics that he's really as much of a innovator like a Kojima.

Kaleb

I commend you on listening to fans and giving them what they crave with an episode on Avatar: The Last Airbender. I don’t see it as caving, I see it as further evidence of the strong bond of respect between yourselves and the audience. As a fan of Avatar the show (and Korra) and as someone who hasn’t been spamming the primaries with it or necessarily voting on it every month either (I’m a Mr Robot evangelist myself - our day will come), I still feel the need to let you know that Avatar: The Last Airbender isn’t cumulatively 8hrs. I wouldn’t want you to be sideswiped then peeved when you found out that it’s actually more than that - 61 episodes of roughly 25 mins a piece that add up to 30.5hrs. You sound like you might only be watching the first episode through gritted teeth before bailing. Just in case that wasn’t hyperbole and you actually were making a deathly serious threat about only sampling a small chunk of the first season of the show - at least watch until the major stakes for the series’ larger plot are established after s01e08 ‘The Winter Solstice part 2’. To bail before then would be like quitting the original FF7 before leaving Midgar and never getting into the Sephiroth stuff or switching off Fellowship of the Ring before the council of Elrond scene at Rivendell and learning about what needs to be done about the one ring.

Josh Lyon

LOVE that you guys are doing Avatar! Don't think of it as a chore. You'll love it and it's relatively short. Also don't let the first episode put you off. The pilot episode was definitely aimed towards a younger audience, but it "grows up" quickly once they realised they wanted to tell a more mature story

Jake Watson

Wow, Avatar is happening huh? Will be strange to not see it lose again. Great episode, really enjoyed the contrasting thoughts.

Jason Bolla

Do you still watch Hornet King on YouTube, Colin? He popped up in my recommendations a while back, and I went down the rabbit hole for a while!😂

Miles Williams

Awesome episode guys, got this on PS2 day it came out and played for a week straight, definitely thought it was the best game of that generation (loved ICO as well), my bro bounced off because of controls, I told him at the time the controls were kind of a part of it, took some getting used to and didn't detract for me but I understand it's a hurdle for some people, I bought the Bluepoint remake but just couldn't get into it, and that final Colossus was the only time I got truly frustrated in the game, took a few days for me to beat him.

David Kramme

Great episode! I have to say I am surprised neither of you mentioned how wander ‘s appearance changes after each colossus is slain. I knew right away the acts of killing the colossi were bad because how pale and demon like wander turns over time. Also, do you think either of you will climb to the top of the shrine? You need to basically max out your stamina bar to do it (beat the game 5-6 times) it’s a cool Easter egg for sure!

kevin berger

I played the PS3 version for all of 2 minutes and thought it controlled like shit. I later loved the remake and think Bluepoint did just enough to make it playable. It's a hell of an 'experience' but not much of a game and definitely not one of the GOATs, I'm with you there Colin. Bring on God of War, can't wait for Dagan's thoughts on it.

Your Boi Nicky V

I stand by the game and love it to death. Even with the controls. I can't say the controls ever bothered me. Well, that's a lie. The only time it bothered me was when I was going for the Platinum on the PS3 version and trying to do one of those Hard Time Trials. It was a pain in the ass in that one instance, but alas, I got the Platinum (a decidedly rare platinum at that sitting at 2.7% on PSN profiles and my proudest platinum effort to date)...the PS4 version is a much easier platinum for note. It's much more forgiving with the time trial numbers. Yes, the game prioritizes animation over tightness of controls (as has been the case with all of Ueda's games) but I would argue it does have a point in this game. They're trying to make it a struggle. It is essentially David and Goliath and they almost want you to feel powerless next to these massive creatures. I can see why people would have issues with the floatiness but I can't say I've ever had many issues with it. Different strokes I guess. I think the game still holds up and is a complete masterpiece. It does so much with so little. It tells a compelling story through mostly gameplay rather than long dull and chastising cinematic cut scenes. A trend I'm growing more and more tired of in gaming - here's looking at you, TLOU2, with your chastising and boring cut scenes about characters I couldn't possibly care about in the slightest. Jesus, that game truly fucking sucked and was written by people who seemed like they never played the first game and never understood what made the first game good. What I really love about this game (and all of Ueda's games) is that they strive to tell a story through both environmental cues and gameplay. People may laugh at the escort missions that are Ico and The Last Guardian but they both strive to tell a story of bonds through a simple means of holding onto a button (aka hand or fur in the case of Trico)...it may be flawed in some regards but I at least give it credit for trying to tell story through gameplay. Also, I would argue SOTC tackled the Ludo Narrative topic LONG before it became a popular thing to talk about. And it did it very well. (Hell, even Shenmue tackled the Ludo Narrative discussion long before -- laugh at me if you will, but I stand by that and that's a conversation for another day -- or maybe I'm just tired of the "games have only just grown up" narrative when games have been doing wonderful things story wise long ago and most seem to have forgotten.) But my point is so many modern games are so disconnected from even trying to present story through gameplay and I've always appreciated that Team Ico strived to try and tell stories and themes through gameplay by utilizing minimalism to it's fullest. That's why this game will forever be a masterpiece in my opinion. It's a timeless story and a well crafted package from top to bottom and it stayed with me for years on end. That ending alone is one of the greatest endings I've ever seen in a video game as it so wonderfully balances hope and despair. An absolute masterpiece and I think many modern games owe a lot to it. EDIT: With regards to pronunciation of ICO. Typically with Japanese "I" would be sounded as "EE" so if taken in that context it would be "EECO" but since ICO, in this case, is not Japanese nor English it could be pronounced phonetically (EYE-CO.) Hence why Ueda was probably saying (EYE-CO) instead of (EECO). So probably (EYE-CO) for ICO. If that helps.

You guys mentioned good colossi. Phalanx (13) is also a highlight for me.

Dylan Neves

My reaction to Colin announcing an upcoming A:TLA KnockBack was the same as Michael Scott’s reaction during the fire drill.

Caleb Greer

Yeah, i definitely agree. Although, I did finish it. Lol.

Will Hahn

Colin giving into the demands of terrorists. I'm not sure what to say.

There’s No I in LLC

I feel that maybe he knew that killing the colossus would release him but he didn't care, he cares about her more than anything and feels that his people betrayed him. And that wander didnt know that he will turn into a demon baby. He comes from a village and I'm sure that they tell stories of the forbidden lands and the colossus as protectors of the world. Another part I thought that reinforced this idea is that how would wander know that with the sword he can accomplish what he wants unless he was told before that this sword is the key to defeat the colossus. And with the little culture we see of wander's people, the clothing is very similar to the colossus and maybe they see them as protectors but wander didn't care about the consequences or the safety of the world.

FluffyNeko

The controls are definitely clunky and it’s hard to put yourself back in 2005 and appreciate some of what it’s doing. Glad to hear that feeling of guilt still comes through today for newcomers, as it made it a seminal gaming experience for me. As someone who played the original, I mainly got frustrated with the remake during the time trials, because I’d mess up and need to restart over and over. But wow boosting your stamina in the open world (and knowing it’s the stamina meter) could go a long way to making the standard mode less frustrating I think.

Chris

I agree with Colin 100% on this game. I remember buying the PS4 remake of this game and being so excited to play it after hearing so many glowing reviews. However I was very let down by the janky controls and seemingly unresponsive inputs of the game. I wanted to like it, but after struggling on the third or fourth Colossus, I gave up, uninstalled the game and put the case on the shelf for good. I can see the artistic merit to it, but the controls left me feeling frustrated and disconnected from the game.

Madshibs

I've tried to get into this game many times but I just always find it frustrating waiting for the colossus ai to get into the right position to climb it especially after falling off. I find that part of the game to be very immersion breaking.

Sumojoe118

On the topic of Christmas decorations, I had a neighbor when I was a kid that just had a single fake candle outside each window of their house. They sold the house many years ago, yet the new neighbors still use those same exact candles. Maybe that's a good idea for you Colin.

Aurang

I never played this and have it downloaded. Excited to hear this one

Michael Toledo

Ooh I'm so excited for this episode. This is by far one of my favorite games of all time!

Joe Donnelly

Pumped to hear how the boyos enjoyed this game.

Dylan Manuszak