Sacred Symbols+, Episode 94: Doing the Work (with Ryan McCaffrey) (Video)

Great seeing Ryan on here, and I appreciate the interesting and honest conversation. Last Stand Media and Podcast Unlocked are my two main gaming podcasts, so I'm glad to see this happen!

JusticeSoulTuna

I can guarantee that no one at IGN gave him any shit whatsoever for coming on the show... because he goes above and beyond not to even remotely hint at anything that the Overlordship would be miffed by. He should’ve been a SEAL because his ability tap dance through a minefield is second to none. Whatever, props to him for coming on though.

Ben

Whitehoue.com! Def made that mistake a few times hahaha

DB Cooper

Ryan has a future with being a PR guy. He has a natural PC response for everything. He goes out of his way to CYA after everything he says. Can’t tell if that’s him being genuine or if he has just been trained not to offend anyone after years of being at IGN. Great dude though.

Darrell

Just joined Last Stand. Great content, i just wanted to share that i joined because i'm mainly an xbox guy and appreciate the duke podcasts but i also enjoy Colins takes on things in the industry, it provides a different perspective than what you can normally get. Love Ryan too, great interview, well done.

I remember listening to the old OXM podcast 13 or 14 years ago, my first podcast ever. Ryan’s a gaming industry legend for sure

Ryan is the reason I follow anything IGN, he’s a real stand up guy. Great interview Colin.

BlindRiot

Last Stand Media is on fire! Week after week amazing content!!!

Big Boss Games

Love Ryan, literally the only other gaming podcast i listen to other than LSM is Unlocked.

Dana Anderson

What a FANTASTIC interview!!!

Christopher Lee

Another fantastic episode 👌🏻

Wayne Moss

2 of my favorite people.. so happy about this

Jake Scott

Holy shit! You all are almost at 12,000 patrons! Hard work pays off. Good content is rewarded. So happy to see it.

Tristen Wilbers

Love when Ryan and Colin get together, “game recognises game!”. Kindred spirits

You know what I want? Sacred Symbols + interview with Tim and it's just Colin and Tim screaming at each other for 90m. "Oh I'll give you a conversation with Tim!!"

Sam Strajack

It is so fascinating.. You have Colin, where your brain just processes his opinions directly, no problem, and then the response I have to have go through a whole range of.. I mean just pay attention to the sit-back after every question that Colin makes :D

indigoblue

Love Ryan!!!

He’d do great on his own and he needs to seriously consider that.

This

This was fucking awesome. Hey Colin, are you and Hatfield good? Do you think he'd be willing to come on?

Tyler Cumerford

When my car floats I'll care lol

Erk-Prime

Agreed, I get wanting to ask questions about the current gaming landscape etc. But when you've essentially got the number 1 PlayStation and Xbox public figures I just want it to be a deep dive into that stratosphere.

Reuben Barrett

Great podcast and interview - I’ve missed Ryan, might have to start listening to Unlocked again. Would have liked a bit more games chat rather than the politics of IGN etc, but I understand you asking that Col. Curious as to what was cut at the 1 hr 27 min mark 🤔 Would hope to see Ryan back maybe post E3, or every 6-12months to discuss the state of gaming.

Ross Stoddart

You don’t have to “go against” your friends and employer to respectfully criticize, disagree with, or even talk about them. It’s not a dichotomy of tow the line or shit on them. And he did talk about Israel and Palestine in connection with his job when he signed an open letter to IGN’s leadership with some of his colleagues that said many many things and tweeted it, right after talking to Colin about this and saying “no comment.” That doesn’t mean he had to tell Colin they were writing the damn letter or something btw, but it’s pretty hypocritical. Clearly he had a comment.

Caleb Greer

It’s not about “taking shots,” and he doesn’t have to agree, it’s about honesty and candor, and perhaps using qualifiers and talking respectfully while still talking, it’s something you can do. Colin asked him about the Palestine letter, he had no comment, said IGN was a brand not a person/people, but then he signed and tweeted the new open letter with all its demands. That’s hypocritical, IMO. And I like Ryan. The discussion here aside from the dodged questions was good.

Caleb Greer

Love Ryan. He is so jolly and comes across as genuine, and kind. Lets all be Ryan.

Plissken

My favorite part of the Podcast was RYan and Colin talking about the current generation of consoles. Fun to watch. This was an awesome show. Maybe a show every year would be fun to compare the consoles and company for the moves being made.

Benjamin Schultz

Disappointed in a lot of the comments on here. There can be good guest discussion (like we get from Ryan on this) without diving into politics or taking shots at anyone in games media. IMO It’s more interesting to learn about what people are doing well (in this case, how he approached his 6 days coverage) vs. taking shots at things in the industry we disagree with

bandwagner

Lol we’re you guys expecting Ryan to go against his current employer and colleagues/friends? Colin even said he didn’t want to press him for those obvious reasons. Wow huge surprise someone doesn’t want to talk about Israel and Palestine in connection with his job.

Caleb Peacock

After listening through the interview I’m thinking Ryan took an L on this one. He didn’t seem to be interested in having a discussion regarding any of the more difficult subjects Colin approached. It felt like a PR statement a few times. It is what it is 🤷🏽‍♂️

You can tell he’s scared of a Twitter mob coming after him or losing his job.

Dennis Parker

Straight honesty and candor is welcome. You can also use qualifiers as well and be respectful in criticizing. So yeah dude, Ryan says “No comment” to Colin, then signs and tweets the Open Letter to IGN about the Palestine civilian support stuff and I find him tiptoeing around Colin’s questions slightly lame. Conflating the blatant liberalization (politically) of games media with the medium simply being more globalized, too? Get outta here with that lol. And I like Ryan, nice guy.

Caleb Greer

This is the reason I joined the patreon! Two of my favorites having a good discussion!

Kudos to Colin for asking tough questions and to Ryan for doing the interview in the first place. They both are so knowledgeable and have a great dynamic. And the fact that they both must have known the sorts of questions that would be asked and they still had a non-confrontational conversation speaks volumes of their relationship. Not sure why everyone is so upset about Ryan tiptoeing around some questions. He’s obviously not going to dump on his current employer. Even if he was that sort of employee, he seems to respect his colleagues enough to not throw them under the bus even if this community thinks he should. Class act all around. Maybe some day we will get to hear more of his personal industry perspective.

Andrew Gonzalez

Way to many people fall into the trap that Twitter is real life.

Keenan

I like Ryan a lot, but this episode he was clearly choosing some of his words very carefully at times, which is understandable. Would love for you to revisit some of these topics down the road in a follow-up interview when he’s inevitably farther removed.

MomsLikeMe

I'm loving these interviews, Colin. Thank you so much for creating a space where these different perspectives can be heard. Ryan seems like one of those "genuinely nice" people that are so rare in this world. I personally think he'd have an incredible time fleeing the nest at IGN and creating his own video game content, but who I am to tell him what to do? It seems like he's being stifled now at his current place of work. The very idea that he would have to let his colleagues know that he was creating that piece of work on 'Six Days' so that they could create alternative pieces to release "at the same time" is honestly ridiculous. Who cares?! If they want to post something else then let them do that, but for him to feel like he now has to apologise because he did some really good work is incredibly sad. Again, thank you, Colin, for creating these for us. This patreon has already paid for itself 1000x over.

Agreed. Like everyone else he has his political opinions but by no shape or form are his thoughts fleshed out, nor doesn’t seem like he wants to, which is fine. He’s definitely not the guy that reads Ayn Rand, Hawkins, Adam Smith etc. Just a guy who loves video games, cars and baseball. But I genuinely feel bad for him because when you have a genuinely nice guy that doesn’t seem like a political animal (unlike Colin) in a site completely unrelated to politics making political statements, you put guys like him in a hard place.

Al Rodriguez

Superb episode. Colin has been on fire recently. Having Ryan on the show was awesome. Really hope he comes back for more.

Stephen Kilbey

just want to say I loved this episode. Ryan seems like a great guy and as a new Xbox owner, I'm going to totally sign in for unfiltered and unlocked..... "you might be smarter than me but you won't outwork me" - Ryan Mccaffrey

Charles White

Cancel culture comes for all. Unless you genuinely don’t give a fuck, then you’re really free

Adam Barnes

Ryan seems like a really nice guy. Hate to see him stay comfortable on the IGN ship as it slowly sinks to the bottom of the ocean. He may not really be a wokester, but he'll always side with them, probably afraid of being cancelled; which will inevitably happen at some point anyway. It's a real shame.

Matthew Cooper

Ryan is one of the few people I still follow from IGN. He always covers things honestly and I haven't seen him miss on a game take in a very long time following his career. If anyone is also in to Tesla his podcast is amazing covering everything they do. Great episode and good to see him on LSM.

James Galos

Great episode. I love Ryan. Political discourse, however, doesn't seem to be his forte. I was disappointed in his responses, but not at him. I know those are hard questions to answer when they're directly about your current colleagues and employer. Regardless, Ryan demonstrated pure class in respecting everyone including Colin - something even many of his huge gaming friends from that era don't do now. Ryan is a real one!

Good catch, I did not notice that. Curious as well.

Caleb Greer

Man, that was quite a nice listen! I've been following Ryan's work since his time at OXM and this was the guest I most wanted you to interview Colin. It was well worth the wait Cheers, hope things keep looking up for you and the LSM crew

The Late Nate

Amazing episode, but WHAT did they have to cut out at 1:27:40? Did anyone else notice that? I’m so curious

Austin Killian

GREAT Episode! For the love of God Colin, get curtains.

Joe West

Colin, just wow.. Thank you for bringing Ryan on, followed him for years, truly awesome dude. This was such a great podcast...seeing you gush over him was beautiful. So excited for everything going forward as usual. Take care, man

Kenny C

Hey Colin, is there anyway you can provide a link to the YouTube videos you post on here? I’d prefer listening to these in the actual YouTube app (like being able to turn off the screen and keep listening), and for some reason it’s more difficult than it should be to get these to open there. The way I see other creators do it is to just post the actual url, so we can just simply tap it and choose to open in the YouTube app.

Bogey Zero

I think in regards to Israel/Palestine this is another example of how social media is not real life. On social media my feed is about 95% anti Israel fanatics. But on a geopolitical stage 95% of countries support Israel’s right to defend its citizens against the Hammas terrorist regime.

Domenico Smarto

You can 100% tell Ryan is terrified about saying something that’s in contradiction with IGN. That’s fine. I get it. But it is very sad.

Also the Jaffe episode was awesome. Stoked for Ryan too!

James Gillis

Pretty much. Colin has a ton of respect and love for Ryan, so he can't push him either. If anything this just show how messed up the world is. You can tell how much they love each other, yet outside negative forces are making them feel afraid to be truly open. Horrible. EDIT: I'm watching the podcast now, and I think they are both being pretty open/fair. I know Ryan has to dance the line to an extent, but given the circumstances I thought he was really honest.

Mewgia

Hey Colin, I was poking around on your twitter and saw you asking for sacred symbols + guests. Someone mentioned Brian Paul from "PSVR without parole" and he actually responded and said he'd be up for it but it didn't get much traction. This guy is really great. I go to his channel for psvr news and game reviews. Professional, well spoken and he's also made quite a few predictions that turned out to be spot on. Anywho, he's great and I think it would be a great interview with you guys not focusing as much on psvr.

James Gillis

I really liked this episode. A bit disappointed in Ryan's responses but I can't judge him too harshly. I do think the mob will come for him soon. Also he was being a little disingenuous for saying he doesn't think anyone at IGN will have a problem with him coming on Colin's show. I don't see that he promoted his guest appearance at all on his own twitter feed. Of course he is wary of blowback. Maybe his eyes will be opened a little after this.

Finally caved and became a patron for this IV. Can't wait to check out the other exclusive content.

Yeah based on the things that Ryan retweets, like the Bill Maher stuff, he seems left of center, which is not far enough for some people. I feel like the mob will eventually, and unfortunately, turn on him. I also think that when he leaves IGN he won't be as agreeable as he was in this interview and Colin should try to interview him again. IDK, how can Ryan not feel slighted by the 6 days article that came out after the preview? I don't know him obviously but I would be very surprised if he wasn't harboring some small resentment towards some of his coworkers or has some differing opinions on the direction of IGN.

OCEL0T

I'm sorry, but I don't give a shit if somebody's "heart is in the right place" if they refuse to actually talk with those who have different viewpoints, and often their opinion is based not only on lies or misconceptions, but are easily proven to be false. I like Ryan, but it's obvious even he knows he's blowing smoke up our asses, which I can't blame him for as I'm sure pure honesty would result in serious backlash from IGN and the games media.

Michael Ferrari

I'm not a republican but I am a church-goer. This was so good. Hopefully Ryan opens the eyes of the San Fran IGN editorial staff that there's a world outside of the ultra-liberal bay area echo chamber.

Ryan is the kind of rare guy, in any industry, whom I wish nothing but the best for. Dude works his tail off. He’s respectful and respected. And quite frankly, is too good a writer/producer/content creator for IGN. Old IGN? Sure. Not what it’s turned into. That said, my opinion means nothing. He’s obviously very happy in his career and that’s good enough for me. So happy he joined Colin for this episode. Colin rarely looks at and talks to anyone else the way he talks to Ryan. You can just feel the respect and admiration on both sides.

Tdot’s Finest82

Always liked Ryans stuff and so nice to see someone from Colins past at IGN acknowledge him for the person they themselves know him to be instead of what the vultures portray him to be.Great chat and very nostalgic

Jimmydiamond

Yes indeed.

Caleb Greer

I kind of feel for Ryan, you can tell he wasn't able to answer honestly because he works at IGN.

Samuel Subasratnajothy

Ditto. The dumb joke, girlfriend-approved and harmless, doesn’t even work except on that day, and it’s literally not even being serious. Shoutout to all the women who certainly had to attend therapy to recover from the joke.

Caleb Greer

Ryan is and continues to be one of the best people in the games industry. Very insightful, kind and super interesting to listen to the wealth of knowledge he has about games. Awesome stuff

King0fChickens

The two of you would make for an excellent general games podcast, loved the games talk in the latter half of this. Thanks for making this happen!

Josh Paradysz

I have never digested Ryan's content before but I really enjoyed this conversation. I will, however, never understand the criticism or disagreement from anyone regarding the joke you made on international women's day. It kind of makes me cringe hearing someone actually criticize it.

Byron Willmann

Poor guy... you can tell he’s a beaten man... working with all those fucking idiots at ign.

DrEnuf67

Awesome conversation so far. So nostalgic for me. Ryan is a great guy!

Jeffrey Petrie

Idk man, Ryan seems like a really nice guy, but I expected more from him in this interview. He says IGN’s a brand, not about a person/people, and he has no comment on the Palestine thing, but then 17 hours ago as of writing this, he signs and tweets the Open Letter to Leadership at IGN about reposting the initial Palestine support piece and editorial autonomy etc. etc.? And unrelated in the interview (although coincidentally not in the context of what I’m saying), he also says there’s no kinda liberal editorial conspiracy etc.? He equates the liberalization of games media to an audience/medium that’s simply globalizing, and he says IGN’s said it’s trying to diversify, even though obviously that’s not what you were talking about (cause they mean sexual/racial)? Like GTFO of here, man. C’mon. I’d love to read what IGN staff says in their damn private Slack channels. I know he has a job and has colleagues’ reps to worry about and stuff though, but damn. And way to mention the hypocrisy with still covering Activision/Blizzard, that was good stuff. Love that you don’t have a litmus test, Colin.

Caleb Greer

Colin, was the dude’s name Steven Hopper who ran Xbox in between Hilary and Ryan?

Joshua Brown

Ryan is good people.

Jordan campos

Can't wait to watch and listen! Thanks gents!!

Ian Everett Trout

I have never listened to Ryan before. Seriously good dude.

Usually, I go about my life and put on a podcast. With this episode, I stop everything i was doing to watch and listen to it.

Petre Cismigiu

Stretch goal 15,000: Hire Ryan #makeithappen

Tim Adkins

I’ve had a strong chub waiting on this. Let’s goooooooo. 💪🏽🍆 P.S. I want Last Stand Media to become big enough to be able to hire Ryan. 🤞🏽

Been waiting on this one to drop. Excited to watch/listen. Thanks for keeping it real Colin!

Just about to go on a run. Perfect timing. Thanks guys.

Jared Delbridge