Sacred Symbols, Episode 153: Generational Divide

There are some differences though. The limiting factors aside from architecture between PS4 and PS3 was RAM and the graphics card. I think it's no secret that the Cell CPU was very powerful for its time. Between PS5 and PS4, CPU is the main limitation but also GPU if we're talking about base PS4. I don't know if you noticed, but physics simulations and destructible environments was more common on PS3 era games than on PS4. That is mainly down to last gen's weak Jaguar CPU's. PS5 has a great CPU, this is why we're seeing so many 60 FPS and 120 FPS games so we could be moving forward with more complex geometry, physics, AI, and more real time systems, but that will be put on hold until games stop being cross gen. Not to mention games being fully ray traced like Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition. So while graphics may be very scalable, and the ports are relatively easy to make thanks to the unified architecture between PS4 and PS5, the games quality will be limited in some ways. Personally, if I was still unable to find a PS5 (and mine is being fixed by sony right now so I don't have one atm), I would not want games to be limited, just so I can play an inferior version of a new game. But that's just me personally. I tend to care more about getting the best versions of games than most people. Unless it means playing on PC 🤣🤣🤣

Hugo Stiglitz

Sure, but again, this level of cross-gen support is far-and-away new.

Colin Moriarty

Awesome. Glad to be there for you.

Colin Moriarty

You are YOU. And that is what's most important. <3

Colin Moriarty

Eh. I know I shouldn't, and I'm sure I won't.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah. People take what is said by devs at face value far too much. They are media-trained and they say what needs to be said. What are they going to say? How else will they answer that?

Colin Moriarty

There are obviously myriad reasons. We discuss many of these.

Colin Moriarty

There's very little to be angsty about. It's all good!

Colin Moriarty

I'm probably missing something obvious, but it's been several episodes now that the crew made the argument that PS4 never catered to the PS3 crowd after release, and likewise with the PS3 vs PS2. However, the major difference in my eyes is the similar architecture between the PS5 and PS4 that makes releasing on both generations so "easy". Not saying Sony should or not, but if the PS4 and 3 were as easy to co-develop for, I'd imagine we would've seen a lot more early PS4 titles have releases on PS3

Greg Bruce

Listen to the podcast when I pick the kid up from daycare. Get about 20-30 min a day. Takes me a week to finish a single cast but it’s nice.

Owen

I'm a gay listener. I am pretty sure I'm to the left of Colin on a number of issues. That being said, I don't feel any particular sort of pride in my sexuality. I'm so much more than that, and obviously corps putting the pride colors in their logos definitely feels patronizing. I listen to this podcast because it's different. I can reliably predict what most other gaming podcasts are gonna say on any particular issue with an almost 100% accuracy because they are so boring. I listen to this to be challenged. I don't always agree, but that's kind of the point. Also you guys aren't so fucking corny and kumba yah.

jordan allen burton

Colin and Dustin, DO NOT go back to Trails of Cold Steel. I am not saying its a bad game, its actually pretty good. With that being said I put in 40 plus hours and I am still probably 30 hours from finishing the first one. Like you said Colin, its just too much; especially knowing you have 3 other games in the series. With Persona, I feel it’s manageable, because its just one game.

Raymond keys

Great episode! Regarding the PS4/PS5 cross gen talk. Horizon developers are coming out saying the PS4 hasn’t held the PS5 back. Yes, that may be true for Horizon as it was a PS4 game from the start but anyone who suggests PS5 dev isn’t hindered has their head in the clouds. The SSD is the 50 times faster than the PS4 HD (as Dustin pointed out). In God of War, imagine Kratos getting thrown off a cliff and having a fight Gandalf style in Lord of the Rings that the camera follows as you go down. The PS4 HD would not be able to load the detail in fast enough but the PS5 it would be a breeze. That scene would be completely held back and have to be rethought. That’s the kind of holding back people worry about in fundamental game design. Digital Foundry has shown Rift Apart analyses and in addition to the amazing portal jump, cool affects such as the Start Wars style wipes are now possible on PS5. Here’s hoping the PS4 support drops soon and we can enjoy some new game design!

Gareth Handa

Guys, you’re overlooking a few simple things as to why cross-gen games are happening today and not in the past. It all has to do with increasing game budgets, Sony’s focus on capital AAA games, and wanting to insatiate thirsty fans with premium products. Shawn Layden was worried that games were becoming too long to make and too expensive under the current model only for a team to then disappear immediately after launch for 3-4 years. Then, Schrier has the piece about Sony wanting to focus on big AAA blockbuster games going forward. And finally.. PS gamers don’t want to see things ‘dip’ whether that’s in scope, quality, etc. Combine all of this with the increase cost of game development, a new console with a small install base, and amazingly large and beautiful games that Sony doesn’t want to compromise on making and you get Sony feeling the desire/need to look for another revenue stream in last gen (applicable to PC as well). We’d get a lot more Killzone Shadowfall and Infamous Second Son than Spider-Man Miles Morales and Horizon: FW this early in the generation, if it we’re traditional as last gen. Additionally, porting has never been easier with similar architecture and hardware, making it cost effective to scale. There’s a reason why the smaller games have been next gen only and a lot has to do with their budgets paling in comparison to the flagships on the horizon 😉. As a Sony fan, you’d have to ask yourself if you’d be fine having Horizon FW be a 10-12 hour linear game like Ratchet because the level of AAA that it is can’t see a return with an install base so small without compromising the scope or simply adding more potential sales on last gen. I can’t help but feel this is the simple reason for the new philosophy and the writing is all over the wall based off of reports and seeing what Sony is doing in front of our very eyes. Thanks for the content!

Zachary Abell

I was kind of angsty about not getting a PS5, but honestly I’m happy with my PS4 especially with pretty much everything coming to PS4. I’ll get it when I get it.

Peabody

Yes.

Colin Moriarty

Heh heh.

Colin Moriarty

That would be very interesting.

Colin Moriarty

I'll look into this!

Colin Moriarty

That's wild.

Colin Moriarty

John at DF looked at the sum total of games found thus far that can only be played on an Xbox Series X|S, PS5 or the PC: An Airport for Aliens Currently Run by Dogs Astro's Playroom Bright Memory 1.0 Demon's Souls Destruction All-Stars Enlisted The Medium Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart Returnal (also the FF7R Yuffie DLC) And people get annoyed when a release doesn't find its way to PS4 (Yuffie DLC). Let us have SOME games, pretty please.

Vince

I do wonder if like Jaffe said on his stream that Aloy could be pregnant and Guerilla doesn't want us to know since it would be a spoiler. Time has pass as mentioned on the podcast so maybe she found more food and was able to gain weight. Just some thoughts....

Derek Alcott

Hey Colin, SCEA actually released Jet Moto and Twisted Metal 1 and 2 on PC waaay back in the late 90s. This doesn't have much relevance to today's gaming landscape, being that PC gaming is far more accessible now than it was back then, but it is a fun forgotten fact. Also, Sony Online Entertainment has been publishing games on PC going back to Everquest in '99, so there is a thread of "Sony published" games being on PC.

Michael Woodruff

I played Days Gone a year or so after it came out on PS4 and it had performance issues, which was a shame as I liked the game aside from its pacing. The PS5 update is like night and day, and feel it would have been favoured more had it come out on the better hardware in the first place.

Vince

Don’t sleep on it, Days Gone isn’t just good it is one of the GREAT PS4 games. It was a little janky near launch, so I put it down, but now all the bugs are fixed and it’s a joy to play. Anyone who complained about the story or gameplay loop just didn’t make it far enough into the game IMO. Colin was right Days Gone = Great

Scot CRUICKSHANK

Dunno who else is with me, but I’m pulling for the Colin quote of “fewer than one-fifth of Returnal’s player base have seem the ending sequence” as a talking point next week. 🤣🤣🤣

The Eclectic Gamer

It's good to be back. =)

Colin Moriarty

Finally beat it today. =)

Colin Moriarty

Indeed.

Colin Moriarty

Very nice.

Colin Moriarty

LOL.

Colin Moriarty

If I remember correctly, he has said in the past something to the effect that he wasn't a fan of the medium of comics, but would be interested in reading a quality Batman story in novel form. I can maybe see where he's coming from, although I'm more of a manga reader. Bad art, or "good" art that you personally don't find appealing, can really affect how you experience a story in a negative way, especially.

TimberWolf0080

Its funny I had an urge to try the outer worlds a a couple months ago. It was on sale on. I bought the dlc packs as well. i enjoyed it. I beat the main game but have to the DLC. Very fun game!

Raymond keys

Colin, this episode you mentioned that you hate comics. Do you hate the medium or do you hate the Marvel/DC super hero phenomenon? There are tons of great stories out there by publishers like Image, Boom!, or the aforementioned Dark Horse. Some of the best stories I’ve experienced are one off trade paper back collected versions of a 4-7 issue comic series. I personally love one off stories that only last a few issues because I can sit and read them in one night and be satisfied. As someone who treasures their time, I think you might enjoy some as well. I have a handful of recommendations if you’d be open to them. I’d even be willing to send you a couple just for you to dip your toes in. Thanks for all you do, you and the rest of the LSM crew are the best in the business.

Daddy Dilkers

Just a heads up if you are struggling with Returnal I can beat the game easily every single run if you get the artifact called Adrenaline Leech. It is incredibly OP and if you just want to see the story it should carry you by itself. You can unlock items faster for future runs by using ether at the start of a run if you don't have it unlocked yet. Great game happy the boys stuck with it. Would have been my 100th plat but I have 3 trophies that glitched which is my only big criticism :(

Klutch

I feel like majority of the media bashed Xbox for crossgen support. I don’t think no one really praised them.

ProjectS

Home health therapist. Listen to your shows as I drive from home to home.

Marc McCoy

When listening to your content it’s usually when I’m working out, at work on patrol, cooking, playing games, and getting ready for work. I can’t listen to Defining Duke at work because the uncut nature that ACG & MrMattyPlays bring. I enjoy their content but I would hate to respond to dispatch and hot key while they are going off the rails in the background lol.

Samuel Zamora

Very cool. Stay safe out there.

Colin Moriarty

Blue collar, Oil rig, North sea, Nightshift mostly. 161 days offshore a year. Chef/Baker. Breaktimes and when I have laborious tasks that take time I listen. In my time off I wake early and play games with an earphone in. When I get time to myself or I'm cooking at home I also listen to pods. I also get through a lot of audio books 40+ hours in the 3 weeks work I'm just completing.

James Schubert

I'm not particularly worried about these three games, but I do wonder how they square telling us the PS5 was a necessity for new experiences only to deliver few.

Colin Moriarty

Very mysterious!

Colin Moriarty

Seems a safe bet. =)

Colin Moriarty

As long as they continue to release on old hardware, there won't be any truly new ideas from those games.

Colin Moriarty

LOL.

Colin Moriarty

I am always right.

Colin Moriarty

Yes.

Colin Moriarty

I think it's a raw numbers game, and -- as I noted in the show -- I don't blame them. I just hope everyone enjoys getting games aimed at decade-old hardware in just a couple of years' time.

Colin Moriarty

If Sony won't move onto their next console, why should any other developer or publisher?

Colin Moriarty

Punny.

Colin Moriarty

Poor Scalebound.

Colin Moriarty

Hi, I'm not hearing anything unusual at that time.

Colin Moriarty

While I listen to podcasts, I’m usually prepping food, getting ready for work, or at work doing shipping for online orders. “…and Xbox doesn’t do it because they don’t have any games.” lol. Cut to Scalebound crying in the corner.

NeO JD

Anyone else experience quite a few audio hiccups this episode? Or is it only me? At around 1:53:50 for example

Lol The need for speed community manager said they’ll be “shifting gears”. I love a good pun

Random Integer

Colin, while I agree it is disappointing these games are mutli generational I think the PS5 games can still be significantly better than their PS4 counterparts. The differences between NBA 2K and Call of Duty from a PS5 to PS4 are pretty big. We all know that the reason they are doing this is money, 110 million install base on PS4 compared to maybe 10 mill on PS5. Great show as always guys and take care!

Michael Buffill

Dustin touched on this, and yes I would love if big exclusives were designed only for the ps5, but I feel like like Sony is just listening to their consumers to an extent. I’m not trying to stick up for Sony, but I’ve seen so many people online complain about not supporting the PS4 with these games. Don’t you think Its the same Sony who listened to the outcry of people complaining by reserving the shut down of the ps3 store as the Sony who reversed their decision on having generational leaps. I just feel like you get what you ask for when you want a company to be so involved with the concerns of their consumers.

Samuel Ashley

No amount of oofs will suffice.

Max Stahl

Colin why are you always right on the money? I cant believe all the people thinking its ok for all these first party games to be released on 8 year old hardware. Hope you love holding up logs, boosting up companions and snaking through really narrow corridors to hide loading because it will probably be well into 2023 till true next gen starts.

Luke Silletta

Obviously Bend needs to make a Road Rash reboot. They already have the motorcycle mechanics down 😂

Tyler Cumerford

While I agree that having God of War Ragnarok and GT7 on the playstation 4 is disappointing I don't think it is as negative as you all make it out to be. Something like GT7 rolling it back is essentially downscaling the graphics and the frame rate on ps4. I don't think there would have been a huge boost outside of those 2 categories on the playstation 5. So the game's going to play like it's meant to play on the PS5 and you're just gonna get inferior graphics and frame rate on the PS4. God of war Ragnarok is the bigger disappointment but once again I am not sure outside of maybe some of the loading screens it will be much different then the original ps5 plan. We are in a weird time with consoles where they act more like PCs than we ever have had. The hardware jump while impressive can be downscaled to fit the last gen hardware without massively compromising the current capabilities of the new hardware.. Most games are made on PC to run at max settings. But that doesn't mean the game can't be played on mid tier or lower settings in most cases. In summary while it's disappointing I think people are making a bigger deal about it than it really needs to be. While I don't condone a company misleading and lying the games themselves will be perfectly fine and probably the most impressive you'll see up to that point

Wayde

That Dark Horse news has me super excited at the possibility of something with Berserk. 🤞

Alan Hardee

The US embassy to the Holy See flew a gay pride flag yet all the ME embassies were advised to not fly it. Just seems disingenuous.

DeucesBruh

Great episode. One of the reasons I bought a PS5 is indeed for Gran Turismo 7. Although this news kinda sucks because it’s going to take longer to develop, I’m extremely confident that the quality of Gran Turismo 7 on PS5 won’t be effected in the slightest by also being on the PS4. The only area that it might be effected is the online multiplayer.

Shaun Wilkinson

Because our name is better.

Colin Moriarty

Yup.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

They aren't justifying it with their biggest games, and don't seem to have any plan to do so.

Colin Moriarty

It's just a lot. It's very appealing, but it's a lot.

Colin Moriarty

You are in a boat with a lot of people, it seems. Totally strange.

Colin Moriarty

I'm not sympathetic to those things, because we were never sympathetic to those things at any other time. Why now?

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

=)

Colin Moriarty

He'll be back. Needed some time.

Colin Moriarty

No, quantity doesn't mean quality, so why throw all second parties into the first?

Colin Moriarty

That would be fun, but as I've said, I like to give those guys space.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you for supporting us and writing in!

Colin Moriarty

It's truly a bummer. No doubt.

Colin Moriarty

That's fine.

Colin Moriarty

Figured you'd guys would want this one quick.

Colin Moriarty

We'll be here when you're ready.

Colin Moriarty

Oh my.

Colin Moriarty

Agreed.

Colin Moriarty

Excellent. Keep on working hard.

Colin Moriarty

Don't be sad.

Colin Moriarty

!!!

Colin Moriarty

=)

Colin Moriarty

How did you guys not call it "Call-in was Right"?

Evan Westendorf

It's kinda disappointing that GOW and GT probably won't have a ps5 exclusive game

Chris adams

Great episode!

Disappoints me to hear Colin say PS5 isnt needed. The games look better or have higher fps, the games load better, the system runs silent and the controller is better. If there was no exclusives it would still be worth it since your playing games in a superior way compared to the ps4.

john spatta

I'm sure it will be just fine, try getting out more.

Piston Pants

I’m going to scream every time my character needs to squeeze through a tight space in Horizon and GoW so that someone else’s console can run it. This feels entirely like a Jim Ryan decision. The choice was to focus on making the extra cash rather than artistic integrity Edit: looks like some people need to learn what a hyperbole is.

Oliver Johnson

As a Trails fan I totally get it. While yes, I absolutely think Colin would love the story and the nuanced politics of the world of Trails. The required time sink is too great. If it wasn't for the extra time afforded to me with the pandemic, I never would have been able to catch up on the games. Having caught up on all the games officially released here, I'm honestly happy to be able to play other video games again despite how much I love Trails.

Dave Ramos

I was going to write in but didn’t make it in time. Returnal has been causing issues on my ps5 out of nowhere. Whenever I try to turn off the ps5 using the media bar it would just freeze causing me to have to unplug the system. The first time this corrupted my returnal save and pushed me back to the boss before the last boss. I said screw it and turned it off using the media bar again only for it to freeze again. I decided to hold the power button this time around and it shut off. I booted returnal back up and the save file corrupted again and made me restart the entire game. I just decided to resell the game because it pissed me off

Kenneth Oms

Until PS5s can be routinely bought by consumers at retail I have no problem with Sony continuing to develop games for PS4. The fact of the matter is you can go to any online retailer right now and find that all PS5s are out of stock. Not only that- but I'm very sympathetic to the fact that people can't afford to spend 500+ dollars on a console right now, considering what took place over the past year. I think it's very savvy of Sony to continue leveraging the PS4 install base to satisfy their customers' needs

Jack Sibert

She is feminine and sexy, you're blind.

Really good episode. I knew this whole time GoW Ragnarok would be cross-gen, and I’m really not concerned. That’s 2 trophy lists and I’m convinced it was always a PS4 game just like Horizon 2.

Brandon Soto

What day is today? I'm confused. Haha

Miky Sh

Need Chris :(

Andrew

I would disagree that playstation is at as disadvantage interms of studios. Quantity doesnt equal quality and until microsoft has studios on the level of ND, insomniac, Guerilla, sony Santa Monica ect. They will always be playing catch up

Big titty drinker

I’d love if you and the Duke boys did a watch along of the major e3 shows. I know you’re not a live-streamer, but we need that Colin x Karak banter

Stephen Forgione

Listener since Day 1 but this is my first time commenting. I’m in total agreement with you guys that it’s such a huge disappointment that the merits we were sold on for the PS5 are not going to be expressed in its own first party games till years down the line. Even if I didn’t own a PS5, I would much rather prefer to play something revolutionary, rather than something tied down to nearly decade old hardware. Everyone goes on about how these cross gen games are still substantially better on next gen consoles, touting the fps and loading times, but unable to comprehend how much more could have been brought to the table if focused solely on the newer architecture. I was convinced that, for the first time since I remember, a console was going to do things not even possible on PC, since they can develop with a 100% SSD adoption rate. Just like the user above me stated, it’s just PS4 Pro all over again, better resolution and/or FPS, this time with fast loading times. Sad that we have years to go to be done with the squeezing through a tight space to mask loading times. Also, that Returnal platinum is driving me crazy. Can make you start to really loathe something you initially loved when your doing it over and over for that elusive log or cipher. Thanks for the stellar content and keep up the great work!

Jason K

Sony admitting to gimping next gen games to hold them back for the previous gen is massively disappointing. There is no generational difference between future games now, the PS5 just feels like a PS4 Pro 2.0 now. PS5 version gets quicker load times, better framerate and resolution... Just like the Pro compared with the base console. And regarding Aloy, I'll be honest, I've seen no one suggest she's not sexy anymore, it seems the conversation isn't that she's not sexy, but that they've changed her character model and she looks less feminine. Guerilla can design the character however they want, it's their game, we shouldn't tell them how their character should look, but it seems pointing out that she looks more masculine compared to the first game will get you called "sexist" and that you should "stick to pervy Japanese games" lol. I personally don't care how she looks, but to me it seems they've designed her to be less feminine... which is fine, don't care, the game looks great. But it's noticeable and people should be allowed to talk about it without the usual suspects misrepresenting their comments and attacking them.

Liam Mcnulty

Excellent episode thanks guys!! The news that God of war is coming to ps4 bums me out. Having not been able to secure a ps5 yet this just means I kind of don’t feel like I need a ps5 anymore. At least not until it has a big exclusive game I care about. I wanted the ps5 specifically for god of war, now I’m good. I wonder how this will effect demand for the ps5.

Christopher Lee

I can tell you with complete honesty that I have listened to this podcast while shaving my dick and balls.

Big Swingin' Rick

This is fantastic. Thanks guys for working so hard and getting it out early.

Addiholic

This is when working from home gets tricky...... damn this early release, wait that's what my girlfriend calls me....

Reuben Barrett

I listen to you guys while my hands are literally inside of another human being. (Forensic pathologist)

You don't need a "better" camera Colin. Simplicity over luxury 👌

James Clark

I'd like to inform that I am indeed a blue collar worker, in the water/wastewater field. I got into the ecosystem through Knockback, and I must say that all of your shows are a much welcome breath of fresh air (in multiple ways). Thanks for your content, hosts, and imput(s)! Its awesome listening to the man who wrote multiple reviews and guides that either convinced me to buy a game, or helped me through it. Keep those chickens stuffed boys

Jar_Farters_inc

Sad my dog/geese story didn't seem to make it in. Hope it gave you a chuckle, Colin!

Ben Williams

You sons of bitch, getting tempted to listen now. Instead of Friday.

Luis Figueroa

Oh hey early release I was just thinking about my question for the show. Must of missed something lol

Metalkirby27

Oh dear.

Colin Moriarty

<3

Colin Moriarty

Disco elysium should be Collins first let's play. Who agrees?

Jar_Farters_inc

New horizon or did the first one get an update?

Alex Bolton

🍿

Brandon Soto

Please enjoy.

Colin Moriarty

!!!

Colin Moriarty

He's a real son of a gun.

Colin Moriarty

No reason to own a PS5 right now if you can do without a very small handful of games.

Colin Moriarty

Yes.

Colin Moriarty

<3

Colin Moriarty

Horizon has a 60fps mode and high fidelity mode on PS5. Fact it cant do high fidelity at 60fps makes me think the ps4 is not holding back Horizon.

john spatta

Maybe listen to the episode before pontificating. That would help.

Colin Moriarty

Yes.

Colin Moriarty

=)

Colin Moriarty

Enjoy.

Colin Moriarty

You got it.

Colin Moriarty

Yes.

Colin Moriarty

Enjoy.

Colin Moriarty

=)

Colin Moriarty

Yes. =)

Colin Moriarty

No, it's tomorrow.

Colin Moriarty

LFG!

Marcus Brown

LET'SSSSSS GOOOOOOO!!!

Kendrick Luckenbach

This is great! Pierre McGuire was driving me mad on NBCSN

Eric Stoughtenger

I'm glad I can hold out until 2023 at least. Hey, maybe they announce or rumors leak of a PS5 pro by then. !!

joey

Wait. TGIF? Nice.

Raymond Aludino

Woah early release! Love it!

Alex Bolton

GT6 was released a month after ps4 exclusively on ps3 Little big planet 3 came out around a year after ps4 and was cross gen God of war 2 came out 4 or 5 months after the ps3 launch, exclusively to ps2. Sony published games exclusive/cross gen are numerically on track identically how they were on the last cycle. The argument that these games are "worse" because of this is lame and unverifiable. You know what would be worse? What Sony did in the past and them being completely stuck on last gen. I just can't understand why offering games to more people is a bad thing. I'm sorry.

Shawn Hayden

You came when I needed you

Alan Ortega-Lopez

Early ep hell yeeeeah

Andrew C

We eating today boois

Asique Alam

Don’t tell me we got the surprise drop

Nick La Creta

Early? Let’s Goooooooo

TheRealDelly

Early release nice

RD_21

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one at that

Dan Morgan

Lol oh, we on it today.

Dennis Johnson

Early??

Jonathan Gould