Sacred Symbols, Episode 153: Generational Divide (Video)

Collin your argument about scalpers Is completely missing the biggest point. It’s not that the scalpers are buying them to sell them for less. It’s because during launch scalpers used bots to buy out tons of product THINKING they could sell em for a grand a piece. When the market told them to fuck themselves, scalpers ended up sitting on tons of consoles they can’t sell because nobody wants to pay scalper prices. Period. You of all people with your background in economics should understand this. Go on fb marketplace. Go on Twitter. Look at these idiot scalpers with pictures of (and I’m not kidding) 30 PS5s stacked on top of each other that they CANT SELL. The sales don’t accurately represent the amount of consoles actually available to consumers. It’s annoying how dismissive you continue to be about this fact, and it must be easy for you when you have 2 in your house and you were never worried about getting yours. I’m not paying scalper prices. I’m not camping on Twitter desperately waiting for supply drops that sell out in seconds. I will consider the PS5 as out and available when I can walk into a target or Walmart and get one. Period.

Kevin McChesney

Thank you so much. Welcome!

Colin Moriarty

The Push Square article about ND multiplayer focused job listings implies it’s still a ways away =\ but seems like they’re aiming for the moon

John Airola

After well over 100 podcasts on YouTube I've finally become a member. So happy to help keep this awesome media going!

MysticMase

I'm just saying, these are arguments we've never accepted before as consumers and enthusiasts. Why now?

Colin Moriarty

That could be fun. Dunno if they'd need or want to shove that into EVO, though. We shall see.

Colin Moriarty

Loved the cross gen discussion. I get from a business perspective it would be foolish to ignore the PS4 install base. But Colin made a great point. Why the hell do we own a PS5. I know the PS5 is extremely hard to find, but we’ve let backwards compatibility and cross gen talking points ruin current hardware. I want new hardware to create new experiences that only that new hardware can offer.

David Morrison

Hey Colin, when you guys were discussing the first EVO hosted by PlayStation and all the e-sports talk, I had the idea that maybe Sony is going to try and make Factions the next big e-sports game. With its unique play style that requires communication/coordination, and as one of the few multiplayer games that caught your attention, I’m sure you can see it has potential to be on the level of huge team based games like RS: Siege or League of Legends if given the proper resources and marketing. Either way, I’m hoping they reveal more about whenever they do their next showcase. Thanks for the great content! Sacred Symbols and Knockback always make the drive to Disneyland much more enjoyable for me and the wife =)

John Airola

I just beat it. =)

Colin Moriarty

To each his own, I suppose. =)

Colin Moriarty

I won't. =)

Colin Moriarty

I have no problem with people celebrating various 'days' and 'months' and whatever, associated with whatever you'd like. Doesn't mean I have to participate or endorse it, nor does it matter if I do! I treat everyone the same every day of the year, no matter who they are. I don't need to iron the rainbow flag and put it outside of my window to prove it. The proof is in my actions, my words, in the way I welcome all people. I find these kinds of efforts peculiar in the 21st century; it comes off as religion. That's my take. I have gay family members and friends; many of them agree with me. They think it's pandering, and so do I.

Colin Moriarty

Thanks!

Colin Moriarty

Nice. =)

Colin Moriarty

I can see that perspective.

Colin Moriarty

Welcome. =)

Colin Moriarty

Your continued persistence for Returnal has inspired me to continue playing after getting stuck on the second level. I just got to the fourth level last night, so thank you for the inspiration!

Cole Helgerson

Regarding the Alloy thing. It’s so weird to me that dudes on the internet keep voluntarily admitting that they’re upset they can’t jerk off to a video game. You’d think that’d be information you’d want to keep to yourself.

YaBoyStevieJay

Colin don’t change your camera. We like watching you through that Al Jazeera filter 😂

Hard disagree on your take of pride and having a flag. Pride is a reminder of the Stonewall riots instigated by police. While yes there are parts of it hijacked by woke scolds. It doesn't change what pride is for. To build community, continue to fight for equal rights and highlight lgbqt+ people through out history. I'm sure you know this being a history buff. I don't get, why you left that out. I'm straight, but my mom is gay. I have some exposure to that culture. Your words kind of stung. As if you scoffed at the whole culture. It is similar to scoffing at deaf culture rooted in what Gallaudet University brought to the table as a college only for the deaf. This was a response to setup a place of safety for deaf people at the time of its founding. As prior to that, there were plenty of incidents of deaf people's hands being tied or worse. You might argue that community should have dedicated week or month too. That's on them to decide not us. As for companies waving rainbow flag while censoring in other parts of the world. Yeah that's pretty dumb. They should cut that out.

Barrel Titor

A solid episode, Sony is coming off as awkward and in my opinion seems like a small company these days. In that they are ill equipped to compete on the messaging front.

BlindRiot

I listen to the show at work as a security guard during the graveyard shift at a data center. While using PS5 remote play ;)

Cash

Hey guys one on your newer patreons. I used to feel the same way about the trails games. I found cold steel to be the worst. But I highly recommend the older games. I started getting back into it and Trails In sky. Play the first two they are actually masterpieces. It got me glued to the series.

Bennie Hill

I don't know if we can garner enough data from Miles, honestly, but it's certainly suggestive. If Sony wants to make their PS5 games look better by releasing PS4 versions, I guess that's fine, but they're still aiming toward the lowest common denominator.

Colin Moriarty

Disclaimer: I don't have a PS5 yet, and I agree with you that it's BS that so many games are cross-gen, at least from the perspective that they were dishonest about it. But aside from that, as someone who will probably still use my PS4 for the next 2-3 years, why am I incentivized to buy a worse version of these beautiful big budget games at launch? Some of the appeal of these games is how beautiful they are, and I'm going to dish out $60, nay, $70 to play a worse, slower version of it? Why wouldn't I just wait until I have a PS5 to play these so I know I'm not playing the inferior version? Aren't the sales of Miles Morales sort of proof of this? Sales were soft, and as more people got their hands on PS5s sales saw growth. Obviously not everyone will wait, but is the PS4 audience really even hungering for these games if they're worse? This isn't even to mention that I still don't feel incentivized to get a PS5 yet, even if these games will be better on it. I can just wait. All signs point to wait.

David P

Maybe. I don't know. I think it's simpler.

Colin Moriarty

Why is the Pandemic relevant to anything we're saying? If they're making more machines now than in 2013-2014, I'm not too worried about the pandemic.

Colin Moriarty

Isn’t the fact that god of war, gt7 being also developed for ps4, is just Sony’s way of telling us that ps5 console production will not be able to reach the numbers necessary to make these games financially viable? Even thought more ps5 consoles sold more than ps4 in the same lifespan, maybe production issues are bigger than expected and Sony won’t be able to keep up the demand. So they had to port the games to ps4

José Carvalho

Couldn't handle the "PS5 to PS4" discussion -.-! Painful. Jesus christ, is everyone forgetting the generation launched in the midst of a fucking GLOBAL PANDEMIC?! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Germanos

That this problem persists with a Sony-published game indicates it's a far deeper problem than it may seem.

Colin Moriarty

Weird feedback, LOL.

Colin Moriarty

=)

Colin Moriarty

=\

Colin Moriarty

Good call.

Colin Moriarty

Astrology, oh dear.

Colin Moriarty

I think he understands gaming, I just don't understand what it is they're doing.

Colin Moriarty

Thanks for writing in, but I don't think we ignored that at all. We discussed that in this very show.

Colin Moriarty

Well, Forza will be cross-gen too.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, just doesn't make sense.

Colin Moriarty

I agree that it's worth owning a PS5, but I don't think you need one. I don't think the scarcity equals the output.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, I'll be interested to see how these third party timed exclusives do. and perhaps more importantly when they even come out.

Colin Moriarty

Thanks. =)

Colin Moriarty

Possibly, yes.

Colin Moriarty

Gonna be quite the embarrassment of riches.

Colin Moriarty

Okay. =D

Colin Moriarty

About the Returnal crashes, I think they're the same kind of crashes (code CE-108255-1) that plagued Dirt 5 for many months after release. The crashes have mostly been fixed for Dirt 5 now I think, but it took a very long time after Codemasters's acknowledgement to an eventual fix, as they claimed it was due to a problem on Sony's end with a buggy API that was difficult for the game developer to work around. Sounds like the Returnal issue is a similar one. These companies need to all be talking to each other to make sure they get to the bottom of this bug. There is something wrong with the PS5.

Aaron Merrick

You guys should hire more people and do different things with the success of the patreon don't get comfortable (saying that with the best intentions).

SteelChevron

hoooeg!!! excited for that spoilercast.

brody_low

Dustin looks too happy in the thumbnail. Colin on the other hand. Perfect.

Aurang

I save this podcast for my house work. Lawn mowing, cleaning, (doing dishes now) studying, work. Any monotonous tasks.

Andy

Haha Dustin, I’m no astrology fan but as Pisces myself I think very deeply and similarly to you. That one cable behind you feeds the video to thousands upon thousands of people in all sorts of weird scenarios. I myself run a marketing agency in the U.K., up in the north, town called Harrogate - think typical upmarket British town - so I’m typically just sat at a desk listening to the podcast. In fact, I don’t take much in if I’m actually trying to do work. So I prefer to listen whilst I’m chilling out. But, I often wonder what people are doing across the world. Couldn’t help but picture that guy feeding sharks 😂 So anyway, I was going to say, the guy (CEO) I work with gets all cringed out and awkward when I go into deep philosophical thinking with him, just like how Colin did there 😉

Matt Wiles

I really think the new head of Playstation doesn't really understand gaming at all. He probably thinks oh we've got X users on PS4 and we have X users on PS5. If we just sell all the games on both consoles we'll make way more money. The issue it's gonna hold all the games back. Microsoft really need to pounce on this and make Playstation look like fools. Might be too late with their business model tho... Interesting times, although a bit bloody annoying!

Reuben Barrett

Hi, I just wanted to comment on your discussion about games coming to PS4 vs PS5. I think you completely ignored technological aspect of how easy it is to port games between PS4 and PS5. I checked all main consoles (PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4 and PS5) and this is first time that they actually use same architecture of the main processor. That is huge difference compared to previous generations. When architecture is different then code has to be adjusted and in many cases completely rewritten, so you need to dedicate resources, maybe even whole teams to do just that. Now between PS4 and PS5 all you need to do is open different SDK and compile code for different console but for the same architecture. Differences will be minimal, so you might need to do some adjustments but you don't need to dedicate team for it. So, as long as console can run the code without getting chocked it will work. Now, we know that Horizon Forbidden West has started development on PS4, so the game was designed with PS4 in mind and we were told by devs that they didn't even know PS5 specs at the time. Question is has it been like that when God of War Ragnarok development started? If yes I can't blame Sony for releasing games on both. I agree that they will be designed differently when coming only to PS5 and I also think it sucks that they are coming to PS4 but there might be more behind the scenes that you are letting in. Just for the context I work with the code between different architectures, so it's something I know from work though not in game dev. Love your content and greetings from Sweden! Cheers, Cahir

For a series thats struggled to hold its crown in recent years as the premier racing series its weird that Sony would just gift wrap Xbox and Forza Motorsport a marketing win as the only true next gen racing simulation.

Craig Mcguire

Thank you Colin! Had the argument a month ago with some people. They were convinced half of the ps5s sold, were being held by scalpers. Talking about 3-4 million at that time. The insanity. One guy even works at gamestop. Does gamestop continue to order product they aren't selling? No one does that. Not to mention to believe that scalpers got a hold of that many? Fools. I am surrounded by fools.

Angel DeJesus

As of this time I don't currently care about the cross gen releases. After seeing horizon: FW on ps5, I'm not too worried. When they actually show GoW 2 is when I will make my final opinion. I had a launch ps4 until I got my ps5. It is totally worth owning a ps5. I am getting to go back and replay my ps4 games (which I rarely do) and feel like I'm getting a whole new experience. RE8 was amazing on ps5. Idk. I'm cool with it for now. I hope sony blows everyone away with their "e3" and all of this is moot.

Sean P

What’s interesting about the PS5 exclusives conversation is that at least this year and next year it may end up that’s there are more second party/third party exclusives for the PS5 than first party. Most of them are timed exclusives (Deathloop, FF16) but it is interesting. It’s almost like Sony is doing the opposite of what Colin suggested.

Matthew Kohlman

That thumbnail is priceless

KomakiKhaos

Colin smokes a lot of weed when he plays returnal. That’s what I took away

Adamthm

I understand how irritating the cross Gen situation can be. But for me and at least 1 other of my friends ( though most have not been lucky enough to find a PS5) I would have likely had to buy another ps4 if PS5 was delayed. My system was becoming so loud during graphically intense games I could barely enjoy myself unless I had the TV turned up to an uncomfortable volume. Even when I was trying to find a PS5 I almost gave up and just bought a new ps4 but the price just didn't seem worth it. Still this is a bit concerning. I have no doubt that like Colin has said 2022-2023 is going to be beautiful a PROBLEM! Save your PTO days guys and gals.

Escozoo

Great episode! I just want to say that I for one got the PS5 to only play GTA5 when it comes out on it. That’s all. 😝😝

Jeff Caseres

LOL.

Colin Moriarty

Great job Dustin! You didn’t suck 😆. You are a real one 👊

Dom posa

I'm glad I could change your mind. =)

Colin Moriarty

No. =\

Colin Moriarty

It's very weird.

Colin Moriarty

Thanks. <3

Colin Moriarty

Ah, glad to hear it. Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

The point is, a scalped console is most profitable when turned around immediately. eBay trends speak for themselves.

Colin Moriarty

Right. I don't blame them, but don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining.

Colin Moriarty

No, he'll be back. Needs some personal time.

Colin Moriarty

Yeah, he's gotta take care of himself first and foremost, though.

Colin Moriarty

That's ridiculous.

Colin Moriarty

Excellent.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

Could be. Not sure about that, actually.

Colin Moriarty

Of course it's advantageous for marketing purposes to say it's the same, but acting like there's no difference between Naughty Dog and From Software isn't only disingenuous, but can be looked at in and of itself as its own sort of fib.

Colin Moriarty

But as I said, it wasn't the business. NES and SNES had years of separate games releasing and so did Genesis and Saturn and SNES and N64. Only third parties and licensed games did port-ups and port-downs. Otherwise, games were made for their generation.

Colin Moriarty

Thank you!

Colin Moriarty

Eh. =)

Colin Moriarty

We've gotchu.

Colin Moriarty

Me too. Hope you enjoy!

Colin Moriarty

Thank you. <3

Colin Moriarty

Yes.

Colin Moriarty

Colin and Dustin changed my mind about not being bothered by games coming out to PS4 as well, buy I take ombrage with Colin saying that you don't need a PS5. Just for faster loading times for my tons of PS4 games, 60 fps, better resolution and no more jet engine noise from my Pro is has been totally worth it to me. As for stocks, isn't it the fastest selling console? Faster than PS4?

RD_21

Is Collin EVER going to finish decorating his bookshelves? Find out next time!

Jerison Reidell

I don’t understand these people defending the cross generation stuff. It’s a lot of PC guys too which is funny because they say ps fans defend corporations

Dom posa

Hey, just wanted to pop in to say: Colin, never upgrade your camera, it's fine the way it is! Stay fresh gents.

Andrew Christensen

Colin, to your point about Returnal drawing you back in, I had a similar experience with Twin Breaker. I was so frustrated with it so often, but I always had that desire to go back and give it another try since each level took a couple of minutes. You and Barry did really well, congrats. I got the plat on Vita when it released, and now I'm going for the plat on PS4.

Braden Summers

Having encountered resistance from people defending Sony on cross-gen games i thought this issue was well articulated. Essentially it's an understandable new business practice. But man, i don't feel like my PS5 is necessary hardware to own. I love it for the impovements it offers but that alone is not worth €500 to me. This doesn't mean i won't be hopeful that true next-gen experiences don't come from the third party or a smaller first party brand even. 🤞🤞

Alan Hayden

Is Chris leaving? He's missed a lot and is missed hard!

Ben Strauss

Sad that Chris keeps missing shows, but still excited nonetheless

Zack Forney

Monster Hunter World. RNG added 218 hours onto my platinum hunt. Ended at 518 hours 😭

Lee Bull

I listen while manufacturing toilet paper and paper towels.

Colton McKinney

Quick corrections: Jeff Ross said he liked to believe that Days Gone is in the Syphon Filter universe, but writer John Garvin—after hearing this Jeff's comment—denied any such connection between the two IP. Also you indicated that John Garvin chose to leave Bend, potentially after (or as a result of) the failed Days Gone 2 pitch. In fact he was fired by Sony mere days after the release of Days Gone—apparently he had a bad attitude and Sony decided they couldn't work with him anymore. Any pitch for Days Gone 2 would have been made without the lead writer of the first game. All of this is from Jaffe's interviews.

Aaron Merrick

I think God of War Rag started on PS4 like Horizon, that's why it's cross gen but with Grand T, they just need to lower texture quality and draw distance and it will run on PS4.

Hozi

Colin to your “unbridgeable” regarding Herman’s comment regarding first party studios and partner studios being treated the same. Coming from an industry myself that utilizes many subcontractors it’s advantageous to consider them part of your own ecosystem because of the future businesses potential and furthering relationships that will ultimately benefit the Sony brand. This is why many devs prefer to partner with Sony and influence the potential for Sony to acquire if it makes sense business wise.

Brent

Great conversation today, Boys! LSM is on fire and easily earns my immediate attention as soon as I see a new notification hit my inbox. And to comment on Colin's question as to why it was smart business to leave 80ml PS3 users or 150ml PS2 users behind? Frankly it just WAS the business. At every generational leap, the old was left behind and the new one was sought after. This is all the industry knew at the time. Cross-Generational development within previous console lifecycles was not at the ease of effort it takes for PS4 titles today. I'm definitely not a developer, but I stake that claim on the fact that cross-gen releases today are rampant. Because 1st and 3rd party developers are releasing free updates for PS4 games all the time that take advantage of the PS5 hardware, or even releasing a native PS5 version with most having no additional cost to the consumer. Turn the clock back a few years, and you'd see this was a practice for many HD re-releases on PS4 and PS3. And these were typically released anywhere between 40 and 60 dollars. So of course it's smart business for them to lead with PS4 first. Because they can deliver on both generations. And it's much easier and cheaper now than ever before and provides them (Sony) with the maximized return on investment. With Spider-Man, God of War and Horizon being some of Sony's biggest selling franchises, it makes complete sense why they'd be designed as PS4 games first and then ported to PS5. Is it disappointing? Sure. Even if it wasn't always the case, there's no way of telling at what point the decision was to determine the lead platform. But I believe with God of War as an example, it had to be made fairly early on in the design process. I put the blame purely on Sony for ambiguous PR messaging during the leadup to the PS5's launch. Do they believe in generations? Sure they do. They've got Demon's Souls, Returnal and Ratchet and Clank to back that claim. It just doesn't come as a guarantee for all titles they develop.

I’ve listened to every single episode so far, I am watching it for the first time and it makes me enjoy the conversation even more, thank you.

I usually listen to a podcast when I'm gaming so it woks out for me

You guys should make a segment for write-ins where people talk about what they do while listening to the show! I think it would be really cool to hear about what people are doing around the world. There's some art in the mundane aspects of people's lives.

Watch Ergo Proxy

On the topic of what people do when listening. This show got me through a root canal once lol

Richard Duflo

Man, back to back Sacred and Duke on the same day. What a value

AlexDiesTwice

Looking forward to this one, very disappointed with the news this week. Thanks boys!

Andy Miller

Nice an early pod! This Patreon's value is unmatched.

Colin do be rocking that 1080p 30 fps. Lol

Frank G.

Please enjoy.

Colin Moriarty

You're welcome!

Colin Moriarty

Thank you for this. Looking forward to this one.

CrimsonSun

Hot digity dog, FIRST! Thanks for the early post, boys!

Charlie Cate