Sacred Symbols+, Episode 361 | Dissecting the Insomniac Leak
Added 2024-01-06 17:00:06 +0000 UTCRight after we went away on our holiday vacation, a major piece of news dropped that rocked the industry in the form of a wide-ranging leak of data from Sony-owned Insomniac Games. Timing stopped us from responding until now, and we're going to do so in great detail today. See, our job on Sacred Symbols isn't to make the news, but rather to report on and react to it. While what befell Insomniac isn't right or good -- and while it certainly isn't legal -- it did, in fact, happen. And our coverage of it shouldn't signal our approval of the situation, anymore than a local newspaper reporter covering a murder. We have to acknowledge reality, and incorporate new knowledge. It's important to note that most of what was in the leak isn't going to be featured in any way on this podcast, and indeed, we don't even know how to interact with the leaked materials directly, nor do we care to learn. Instead, through the likes of Reddit, Imgur, forums, and social media, we collected what we thought was relevant, and left out the rest. The relevant: Insomniac's release schedule, game financials, sales data, PS+ presentations, and other items of acute business interest. The irrelevant: Any details having to do with a game deeper than its mere existence. No plot or character spoilers, no discussions on builds and videos, no artwork analysis, and so on. And it goes without saying that personal details of any kind (which we frankly didn't personally encounter while researching for this podcast to begin with) are complete nonstarters. We hope you find our coverage fair and thoughtful; we'll leave that determination up to you.
Comments
I won’t buy and play the last of us 2, because the game got all the major story beats spoiled for me before I was able to afford the game. At this point. I’m only really playing those games for the story. They don’t do anything mechanically that really speaks to me In a way that seems like it will hook me in the long term for “fun”. The first game isn’t something I ever think to myself. “Oh I want to play that again.” So I don’t see the sequel as a worthy investment of my time unfortunately. Which is actually a little sad, because I did enjoy the first game. Also Chris makes a strong point. I’m a man in my mid 30s now.” Who’s prone to depression. So knowing the story can be so heavy at times. It doesn’t exactly make me jump to experience it. That said, I love some depressing ass content so I’m a fool lol.
KnivesDCCCVIII
2024-01-25 18:15:29 +0000 UTCIs the online branch of Al Qaeda called E-Qaeda? I'll see myself out.
Devon McCarty
2024-01-12 00:17:44 +0000 UTCAlso shoutouts to Dustin for pushing back on the gamepass comparison.
Owen
2024-01-11 23:54:24 +0000 UTCTLOU remastered was also bundled with ps4 so those numbers are inflated
Owen
2024-01-11 23:13:54 +0000 UTCThis is up there with one of my favourite episodes, there was so much covered in here that wasn't reported on by the wider press which made it a super interesting listen. I love a deep dive into the industry goings on and all the numbers such as this. Superb work!
Kurt Lewin
2024-01-11 15:39:33 +0000 UTCCan add another tally to the list of people that avoided TLOU PT.2 because of COVID. Even avoided much of the leaks. But, being stuck in a one bedroom apartment for 2-3 months really killed any desire for a depressing story.
Lovat
2024-01-11 14:16:17 +0000 UTCCrack in time is awesome
Jerry Huerta
2024-01-11 05:07:25 +0000 UTCLove this episode. I decided not to play TLOU 2 from the first preview where they were gutting that girl. I didn't want a sequel to start.
Nathan Densley
2024-01-10 05:06:56 +0000 UTCI understand the idea but there is literally no way anybody didn’t play the last of us 2 because of Covid and it was depressing lmao
Ryan
2024-01-10 03:05:11 +0000 UTCI think Chris point about TLOU P2 dropping at a really depressing time in general is a great point, I personally held off from buying it until I felt the whole weight of the world felt a little more bearable
Zixten Larsson
2024-01-10 00:41:09 +0000 UTCLast of Us two also came out during COVID when games were doing well.
Nathan R
2024-01-09 15:16:53 +0000 UTCLike he seemed kinda checked out?
Connor
2024-01-09 09:22:49 +0000 UTCNo other podcast would do a deep dive to this degree. Thank you Colin for sharing your PlayStation nerdom with us and doing the digging
James Pies
2024-01-09 08:02:34 +0000 UTCI remember that year like it was yesterday. Best Buy had a promo, so I preordered 5 games that year. That November alone was insane. I sometimes roll my eyes when people don’t mention 2011 as one of the best years in video game history. Maybe too many sequels and not enough innovation, but that year was stacked!
Jarett Davis
2024-01-09 06:05:38 +0000 UTCFackin well said here dude. And i loved part 2. You nailed it
SlickMick
2024-01-09 01:26:22 +0000 UTCCrack in time was by far the high point in the series for me. Not entirely sure why but the “game feel” (as chris says) was just spot on. Series hasnt hit that same mark for me since, despite my insane hype for Rift Apart. Who knows, maybe im nuts
SlickMick
2024-01-09 01:24:50 +0000 UTCI’m happy Dustin keeps stepping in to level set some assumptions that can arise in these conversations. Colin has every right to draw to a conclusion however Dustin’s comments keep the conversation more open to interpretation and honestly helps keep topics interesting. Also, kudos to Colin for being receptive to other cast members thoughts.
MrFreundly
2024-01-08 20:14:01 +0000 UTCFor best Ratchet game, it tends to fall into 2 camps. The Crack in time Camp, and the R&C2 and 3 camp. The 2&3 camp have internal conflict over which is better, but agree those are the best.
NinjaDC
2024-01-08 19:08:02 +0000 UTCKinda makes me sad that when Chris asks Colin why Resistance 3 sold poorly and was overlooked in 2011 Colin says he doesn’t know why. Back in the Beyond days he knew why. It was the Year of Dreams for Sony, where they released an insane amount of exclusives in 2011. But that backfired because great games like resistance 3 got overlooked. Uncharted 3, Skyrim, Killzone, Infamous 2, Portal 2, MW3, Crysis 2, Dead Space 2, LA Noir and sooooo many other games just swallowed games like Resistance 3 up and spit them out. In short, the year was too stacked and Resistance was lost in the shuffle.
Robbie Agnew
2024-01-08 18:52:59 +0000 UTCIm gonna give you the two reasons TLOU2 isn’t nearly as popular. At probably a 3-1 sales rate the sequel was objectively a commercial failure compared to the first one. The two reasons are the leak, and the divisive ass story. Part one is universally loved, part 2 is not. It’s that simple. Make the player play as a character who killed an beloved character for 10 hours is insane, plus making her ruin another characters whole life is crazy, although probably relastic. Those are the reasons, TLOU2 just isn’t as good as TLOU1 in the one area these games live and die by, the narrative. Mix that with the leak of the huge death early on and you get a divisive game that people like myself do not recommend to people who loved the first game
Nick Pacheco
2024-01-08 15:30:30 +0000 UTCHate to be that guy, but there's a glaring omission on these inflated sales/franchises and psychical sales... bundles. Games like LOU Remaster, Uncharted 4, and Spiderman (PS4) were heavily bundled when the PS4 was also on meteoric rises (Uncharted 4 bundled when PS4 sold 30M+ that FY). I think LOU 2 sales are pretty inline with the strength of that franchise, albeit the leaks probably did hurt it.. but LOU Remaster is inflated from the bundles more than anything. LOU2 didn't have any bundle benefit, same as LOU (PS3), as the PS5 was less than six months away post launch. I believe the Spiderman (PS4) physical sales are also inflated from the bundles.. as that was when they shipped physical games with the bundles too. Had it have been digital, I think the numbers would've been swung in the digital favor completely. Overall though, excellent analysis boys and s/o to Colin for putting these notes together.
Zachary Abell
2024-01-08 14:48:31 +0000 UTCThe reason the last of us 2 sales number are so much lower than the original and remastered is that the former were in console bundles. I remember TLOU PS3 bundle and I got the TLOU remastered PS4 bundle in 2014
CombatSneeze
2024-01-08 11:19:40 +0000 UTCThis is why I subscribe. Absolutely no one else has content of this quality.
sam croese
2024-01-08 08:45:21 +0000 UTCDamn Chris really went all out on this one…. Sheesh
Misko 1023
2024-01-08 03:46:15 +0000 UTCIve played every single R&C game. Its my fav series. For me the most fun R&C is Deadlocked. A Crack In Time has an amazing story.
Romeo
2024-01-08 02:31:35 +0000 UTCIm gonna disagree on this, but also this discussion is highly subjective. As some one who grew up on these I considered the originals to be leaps and bounds greater than any release on ps3 and metacritic supports that with 90’s for the og trilogy and an 87 for a crack in time. But again it could just be that these were some of my first favorite games and when crack in time came out I was teenager who cared about mature games.
Dustin
2024-01-08 02:30:40 +0000 UTCIt really fucking sucks that Resistance is dead. I loved those games
Zeke the Plumber
2024-01-08 02:22:06 +0000 UTCYup, I haven't played it yet and I wish Chris hadn't spoiled that. :(
Evenor Castillo
2024-01-08 01:53:44 +0000 UTCI know most listeners of this podcast would have finished SM2 already, but imo it’s a spoiler that you play as *redacted*. Wish Chris would have checked himself here even if it is predictable
Henry Morgan
2024-01-08 00:29:05 +0000 UTCyeah I appreciate the analysis, but it does come off as half-baked. The data is sketchy as well. As of dates, and time adjusted comparisons would be more fruitful instead of comparing the unit sales of a game in year 7 to a game in year 2.
Sean Y
2024-01-07 23:02:04 +0000 UTCReally great show, good to hear the news finally from this leak. Love what you guys do at LSM. Keep it up!
Nolan Fitzpatrick
2024-01-07 21:53:35 +0000 UTCI agree, but TLOU remastered definitely includes bundles
My most hated race is the 400m dash
2024-01-07 18:17:55 +0000 UTCYes
My most hated race is the 400m dash
2024-01-07 18:12:29 +0000 UTCIs Colin trying to trick me into defending TLOU2? Many of the TLOU Remastered “Sales” are from the PS4 bundle. That was THE bundle early on in the PS4’s life. If Colin had looked at the revenue in these leaked docs, it would be obvious. TLOU II outgrossed remastered despite selling 8 million fewer units. I still think the leaks hurt TLOUII, and I have my own issues with the game, but you have to look at revenue, not just units sold.
My most hated race is the 400m dash
2024-01-07 18:11:43 +0000 UTCI agree that decision was likely costly, but I have an alternative view that I never see discussed. I've platinumed TLOU2 and finished grounded mode. The feel of the game mechanics is legitimately off-putting and it's by design. Most games make sure you feel gamified violence is justified, and impact is largely downplayed for the sake of fun. TLOU2's main mechanic is violence and it's legitimately disgusting. The screaming, gurgling, grief stricken murder is not fun to play, not fun to watch, and not fun to think about. If that's your fundamental game engagement, I don't think it should be surprising that people generally won't want to participate. Not all game violence is the same, and TLOU2 proves this in my opinion
James McGivern
2024-01-07 17:25:40 +0000 UTCI'm not saying anything others don't know, and I am a TLOU2 fan, but it was their creative choice to kill off a character that ultimately killed PT2 sales here.
TL
2024-01-07 13:25:54 +0000 UTCI love that the first Spider-Man Dustin can think of for a skin is “Crackhead Spider-Man”. 😅
NeO JD
2024-01-07 09:13:14 +0000 UTCLearned this the hard way by not buying Ultimate Alliance when it was up on PS4.
NeO JD
2024-01-07 09:09:57 +0000 UTCDepends on if you’re a Marvel fan. I’m buying all of those. 😅
NeO JD
2024-01-07 09:09:03 +0000 UTCI think he said it’s the multiplayer one not multiplayer only one.
Have you considered considering considerations considerately considerate
2024-01-07 07:10:42 +0000 UTCI commented this under the youtube video
Connor
2024-01-07 02:30:55 +0000 UTCOne thing these analyses often understate (SS unfortunately no exception) is that they don't emphasize the timescale. If a game like TLOU1 is 20M+ copies sold, it did not reach that amount in Year 1,2,3 or even 4.
Sean Y
2024-01-07 00:52:30 +0000 UTCReally sucks that Insomniac is now a Marvel only game studio. Waste of talent
Yiorgos
2024-01-07 00:36:26 +0000 UTCJust a little correction: God of War Ascension isn’t just a multiplayer game it has a full story it just was in that period of tacked-on multiplayer. Not a bad game at all just kind of more of the same and hard to replicate the feeling of 3.
Noah Friscopp
2024-01-06 23:28:08 +0000 UTCI cheered when Colin finally mentioned FGO, lol. It's insane how much money that game made (still makes). I hesitate to say this because nothing is ever a sure thing, but if they made a Genshin or HSR clone with those Fate characters, it would absolutely do gangbusters. Type Moon owns the IP though, so it would be a big outlay to secure either TM itself, or the licence then make such a big game. That's how you succeed though if you want a Genshin-like success, channel insane fandom and make a good game.
Joseph
2024-01-06 22:01:16 +0000 UTCI think Spiderman Online could be biiiig, but I don't think the game engine is ready for it yet. The world needs to be more of a sandbox, more interactable. It can't just be a backdrop for you to swing in. And you need villains. If the tools are there, I can see people RPing their own superhero movies, making their own cutscenes with an advanced photo editor, creating their own heroes (whether spider based, wolverine based, or even other xmen). You just need to beef up villainous characters, let players base them on the villains from the games (or heroes, that can act villanous). And they need to be able to interact with the world - stealing cars, robbing banks, blowing up buildings etc etc. It could absolutely work, but I'd probably wait for PS6.
Joseph
2024-01-06 21:04:19 +0000 UTCTLOU1 sold more because it is genuinely better than TLOU2. Even without the hate campaign, it wouldn't have surpassed its superior predecessor. TLOU1 had a better story, much better pacing, the narrative didn't get in the way of the progression systems as much (e.g. switching characters and losing backpacks), and also importantly it had a multiplayer suite that kept people engaged with the game. Hopefully part 3 considers what part 1 did better than part 2. Part 2 is still good for the combat though.
MetroidIsBetterIn2D
2024-01-06 21:00:40 +0000 UTCColin misread those budgets. Those were revenue, not budgets. https://imgur.com/gallery/5vAx0Mg
ByWatterson
2024-01-06 20:31:38 +0000 UTCRegarding the last of us remastered sales, didn’t it come with a holiday bundle that came with a digital copy of the last of us and a disc version of GTA 5. Wouldn’t that inflate numbers to a degree? Are those counted?
Pretendo
2024-01-06 20:06:32 +0000 UTCIn regards to the last of us 2 sales could it have been that the story doesn’t live up to the first in peoples eyes or that the sequence of events and story message just don’t deliver the way they need to? And doesn’t talking about changing the order of events for season 2 of the show demonstrate 2s events were poorly planned and executed?
CUMSoftware
2024-01-06 19:57:58 +0000 UTCThis is some of your greatest work, guys. This is exactly why I’m happy to pay to be here and have been happy for years. Worth every penny I’ve ever spent.
Jonathan Gould
2024-01-06 18:31:33 +0000 UTCJust want to back up that A Crack In Time is widely considered the best, with 2 and 3 also having sizable amounts of people considering those games the best. Size Matters is also generally considered one of the worst, if not the worst, especially since it originally came out on PSP and then was later ported to PS2 (in 2008, mind you).
Jamal
2024-01-06 18:20:28 +0000 UTCIt's already longer than 2 hours
Tyran Batten
2024-01-06 17:54:06 +0000 UTCMarvel/Disney absolutely pulls their games from sale after the licensing deals are done. Better get physical once they re-print with patches.
Eugene
2024-01-06 17:50:18 +0000 UTCjust in time, hell yea
Kurai
2024-01-06 17:06:39 +0000 UTCThought it would be longer tbh
ShinyRyuji
2024-01-06 17:04:40 +0000 UTC
