Sacred Symbols+, Episode 274 | The Last of Us (HBO) Review Discussion and Spoilercast (Season 1, Episode 8)
Added 2023-03-07 17:00:05 +0000 UTCIn a game full of memorable characters, David ranks near the top. One of The Last of Us' most compelling, unsettling, and nuanced personalities, David, James, and the rest of their struggling band of survivors are central to this, the penultimate episode of the HBO run's first season. Here, we see Ellie and Joel largely separated, while we also finally get the solidified father-daughter relationship we really want. There's much to discuss, so let's not delay: We'll jump right in.
Comments
Cabin Boy
Vanzant
2023-03-16 01:57:57 +0000 UTCGreat episode but am I mistaken, Chris Elliot was mentioned but definitely not in this series…..he was the caretaker with the funky hand “strong arm” in scary movie 2.
Andy
2023-03-15 21:06:44 +0000 UTCI'm soooooooooooooo glad Dagan mentioned the "ignoring the child molester" aspect of David when comparing to Joel. I have been WAITING for the final episode to ask the question (and I will) of how different is what Joel did vs what David tried to do when you take the asshole rapist stuff out of it. The way the show handled the last two episodes (I say this the night after the finale), was the first time I've thought about it in that kind of light. Can't wait for the next podcast so I can see what other people think about this idea especially pertaining to the show itself.
Lou & Rei Loper
2023-03-13 15:51:30 +0000 UTCIt's been a few minutes since I last played the game, but I have played it and researched it quite a ton. One sticking point about the show/commentary on David going from math teacher to psycho is.....did anyone OTHER than David say that he used to be a math teacher? I wouldn't believe a word that man said especially that, the guy on the show gave me more of a former prison con-man kinda vibe. I'm going to play it again in a couple of weeks on PC (finally), but I just wanted to remark on that.
Lou & Rei Loper
2023-03-13 13:25:50 +0000 UTCTelevangelists are con men who line their pockets with the faith of weak minded people. There is more to him that is easily researchable on Google so I don’t have to write an essay here. I can’t research why Colin thinks he’s a swell guy but that’s just his opinion I suppose. Was just puzzled by how a morally sound person like Colin would Osteen.
Nikitas Gagas
2023-03-12 12:54:21 +0000 UTC"Like all evangelists he is not a good human being" " Dude, you can’t just say that and not elaborate."
TreelineMars
2023-03-12 09:50:53 +0000 UTCHe also implied that he’s raped children before being that he used to be a teacher, is clearly a pedophile, and tells Ellie he likes when they struggle. Not to mention he was planning on breeding with a 14 year-old. Yeah, not much grey there.
Nikitas Gagas
2023-03-11 16:08:44 +0000 UTC“I like Joel Osteen”. Dude, you can’t just say that and not elaborate. Like all evangelists he is not a good human being.
Nikitas Gagas
2023-03-11 15:59:18 +0000 UTCThis is the episode I was most looking forward to as it is my favorite part of the game. I was disappointed for numerous reasons: I wasn't buying the actor they went with as David. This version was no way near as charismatic as he was in the game. He definitely gave off creepy pedo vibes but I wasn’t getting manipulative cult leader from him. Was John Hawkes even approached for the role? He would have been perfect. Would have even been cool if Troy Baker actually played the role because he did look better for the part and could have pulled it off. The episode also felt rushed and the payoff fell flat. I actually cried when Joel called Ellie "baby girl" in the game. Felt nothing here. There was just no emotional weight. He just hugs her and they walked off towards a lake. Are they gonna go for a swim? The scene should have just cut to black with her bawling in his arms. Was cool to see Joel go on a rampage but his Wolverine healing factor just made it all seem goofy. Then he just waltzes into cannibal town without even getting attacked and the snow storm didn't feel as intense as it should have been. I blame the director for their lack of subtlety and found Ramsay’s acting wasn’t up to snuff when it had been much stronger in the previous episodes.
Nikitas Gagas
2023-03-11 04:58:58 +0000 UTCOn the subject of when we'll get season two, if it's anything like this season, we'll be waiting awhile. From the wiki, "The Last of Us was filmed throughout Alberta from July 2021 to June 2022." and then 6 months later we get the show. A year for filming part 1 and they haven't even started on season 2 yet. Granted part 2 has fewer locales but I think the show will return in 2025. Maybe late next year at the earliest.
Ben!
2023-03-11 04:25:52 +0000 UTCI don't think there's very much grey when it comes to David. He literally says he found God when the apocalypse started because he has a violent heart and he can now set it free
Luke Trewarne
2023-03-10 08:07:08 +0000 UTCGreat episode again, probably even more sad then the show ending is knowing we won't get any more Sacred Symbols+ LOU episodes. Maybe you guys could still do a complete season 1 review episode?
Nathan Migom
2023-03-09 08:00:47 +0000 UTCCol, I’m surprised you didn’t bring up seeing Nick Scarpino in the episode. 😅
NeO JD
2023-03-08 16:26:55 +0000 UTCIn the game one of the hunters says “don’t shoot her that’s David’s newest toy” confirming Ellie wasn’t going to be his first victim
Captain Bon Clay
2023-03-08 09:05:14 +0000 UTCDid anyone else take from this story that hunting was plentiful, they were actually running down their own society in order to eat them? Ellie shot a dear just outside their camp without effort. So I’m guessing they just stopped going hunting. They had the food - and the food was doing the work.
Marc Cairney
2023-03-08 08:36:10 +0000 UTCI have to comment on this because I feel like your guys’ analysis is close but not hitting what the real issue is on the show in my opinion. I wasn’t on board with the idea that episodes 1-6 were rushed or did not have enough character bonding moments. Good films let the viewer fill in the blanks by establishing motivation and showing changes in time and behavior. The missing action in episode 8 wasn’t the chase through the resort! It’s just a setting. The David and Ellie vs infected action mattered more because it established why David was impressed with/attracted to Ellie. The episode skips the connection that makes David feel frustrated and betrayed when Ellie wont give in to his wishes.
Zander
2023-03-08 04:21:20 +0000 UTCI disagreed with the lack of skill discussion tbh. She rode a horse while firing backwards, used her bite mark to her advantage. Knew when to strike. Knew when to hide. She’s fucking lethal. As for the rifle. As someone who has been doing it for years. Rifle hunting isn’t that hard, but rifles are fucking heavy. She isn’t holding it right bc she can’t for long. James and David also correctly pointed out that there was no way she was moving that deer after killing it lol.
Retlaw
2023-03-08 04:09:48 +0000 UTCPablo Pascal ❤️😂
Gabriel Baker
2023-03-08 01:01:45 +0000 UTCI always thought that in walking dead, it didn't make sense for there to be so many zombies still. Like they're in the deep south,hot summers, for multiple years. Most zombies should have decayed to the point of being immobile. And in this show, they don't decay like that, but they also aren't supposed to live for two decades. Also, they mentioned in earlier episodes how they tend to stick to cities, that's why the animals were in the field. Infected in that part of the country in a cold winter, would probably be frozen stiff anyway.
Angel DeJesus
2023-03-08 00:13:30 +0000 UTCColin calling the cannibal pedophile cult leader a morally grey character is hilarious (I’m teasing) love these discussions!
Retlaw
2023-03-08 00:02:47 +0000 UTCShow runners blew their loads on episode 3 and now it feels like a mad dash to the end
Travis B
2023-03-07 22:03:52 +0000 UTCOn the subject of Ellie’s lack of skill in the show vs the game, I wonder if the foreknowledge of the sequel has encouraged them to reserve that element of her character to show growth next season. That… or it could just be that playing television Ellie in the game would have been demonstrably less fun.
Jeremiah
2023-03-07 21:45:14 +0000 UTCIt's low key oddly unsettling to see Ellie "kill" Joel in the tv show, all things considered. Lol
Josh Gamez
2023-03-07 21:06:12 +0000 UTCReally disappointed how watered down a lot of the characterization and dialogue is in this show. Why does a video game have way more subtly that a premier HBO show? They literally had David say he likes Ellie struggling like we couldn’t infer that he was a creep before that. He might as well have looked into the camera and said “I’m a child molester, by the way”. Also making him into some kind of religious cult figure? How much more on the nose could you get? Super disappointed with the writers lack of faith in the audience’s intelligence. The David in the game is far more realistic imo. Naughty Dog trusted it’s audience enough to be able to infer his true intentions. The show is just so watered down :/
Avery Abrams
2023-03-07 19:28:23 +0000 UTCJoel also walks into a room with the hanging human bodies.
MJ SKA BOI
2023-03-07 18:55:55 +0000 UTCHey guys just a quick friendly correction. There is absolutely evidence in the game that they are cannibals. Joel walked into seeing bodies chopped up and hanging and frozen in the game. The whole tiny little pieces scene is straight from the game. And Elle wakes up to see a butcher chopping up bodies to serve for food. Here’s the scene https://youtu.be/pdvur58HE4U
Shawn
2023-03-07 18:47:59 +0000 UTCSo I’m not super knowledgeable on this but could they have decided no infected in this part of show due to the cold weather? The fungi might not survive the cold in real life and from episode one they say all this could happen as the earth warms so could winters areas be much safer infected wise?
Tyler Floyd
2023-03-07 18:08:57 +0000 UTCSpoilers for the last of us part 2……… I was also just curious what people think about the fact that by the end of this season or (most likely the start of the 2nd season) we would’ve seen the Joel in this version of the story unequivocally kill two peoples fathers. One being Hannah’s dad and the other being Abby’s father. Do you think this will take away the impact of Abby’s fathers death or do you think this will only help to enforce Abby’s reasoning and motive in season 2?
Ethereal Pizza
2023-03-07 18:01:43 +0000 UTCThe cannibalism was definitely in your face in the game. Ellie literally woke up to someone butchering a human body. Joel came across the same hanging bodies in the game as well.
Bogey Zero
2023-03-07 17:22:36 +0000 UTCAs someone who cares more about characters than plot, the show is a masterpiece. I noticed people who care more about plot are getting hung up on stuff like the resort being missing or the infected counters missing. Also, the cannibal aspect, was really in your face in the game as well.
Sean Y
2023-03-07 17:22:35 +0000 UTCYeah if anything it’s more in your face in the game. I just played through this section last night and when Ellie first wakes up in the cage, they are tossing aside human arms and legs I believe, as opposed to just the ear.
Roger
2023-03-07 17:20:33 +0000 UTCI do think having played the game means the show has a high bar to live up to, which is near impossible for a game the quality of TLOU. It's the similar argument you often get with books vs adaptation. I do love the show but there's things it just can't hit which a game can, not to mention the time you spend with them. All I know is I'm watching it with a couple of people who have no knowledge of the game, and they absolutely love it. I guess that would be a common enough occurrence, as this is reaching far beyond the gaming world now.
Deemac
2023-03-07 17:19:19 +0000 UTCThey definitely show they eat people in the game. There's a scene where Joel walks through and sees all of the bodies hung up for processing. Ellie even mentions to David about whether or not he's feeding her human meat. The reason they're not having Ellie kill a bunch of hunters or fight off a horde of infected is because it's entirely unrealistic. I will say, they could've had Ellie and David fight off maybe 2-3 runners or stalkers. Also the final section of the game is crazy short. It's two big action sequences and 3 story sections.
Brannon H
2023-03-07 17:16:36 +0000 UTCHey everyone, curious what all your thoughts are. The last of us show is really great, but is it truly excellent? Every week after an episode airs you only have to go onto any social media platform and are immediately greeted with millions of variations of “Omg that was the best episode ever.” Or “This is hands down the greatest show ever created.” Everyone is obviously entitled to their own opinion, but I really think the last of us tv show is getting a little overblown in its praise. Don’t get me wrong, I think the show is great and acted very well, but I do not think it’s on the pantheon of television excellency. Perhaps this is because I’ve played the game and am just always going to find that form of the story more compelling. But if taken as just a tv show, the last of us still has some fundamental problems in my opinion. A lack of apparent danger concerning the infected, some story pacing issues. But mainly that it feels extremely rushed in every aspect. The story beats feel rushed, the character development feels rushed, even the delivery of certain dialogue feels rushed. It 100% needed to be a 12 episode season at least. Maybe I’m just ranting but what’s everyone else’s opinion? Does this show as it currently stands really deserve to ranked alongside the likes of The Sopranos, The Wire, Mad men or Breaking bad?
Ethereal Pizza
2023-03-07 17:12:12 +0000 UTCLoved the episode and every other one this season, but there’s definitely room for improvement next season!
Cai
2023-03-07 17:10:21 +0000 UTCThis is SUPER long but I think I’ve put my finger on something that’s been bugging me about this show since the beginning. I think the mistake they’ve made is not adapting the gameplay, which is where most of the game’s character development and world building actually happens. They’ve often said on Troy’s podcast something akin to “So this happened through gameplay so we had to do something different here”. This is what I think has fucked with the pacing as they’ve removed long sequences of what would be exploration or action and not replaced it. This is why Colin is feeling like this relationship between Joel and Ellie has not been properly built, because all the little moments that built it in the game have been removed because they’re gameplay. An example in this recent episode is with Ellie meeting David. They said on the pod that Ellie and David built a trusting relationship through gameplay where they saved each other’s lives - but because that was gameplay they had to do something different. Did they? Could they not have had an action scene where this happens beat for beat. It’s not that I need more action as I always found the criticism of the show lacking it to be kinda dumb, but it is impacting the pacing by not having it. This made the reveal that David knew Ellie kinda flat as it was so immediate. Why not have them save each other? If anything that reinforces David’s later point about them being equals. Whilst they’re doing a fantastic job of adapting the game’s story, the refusal to translate gameplay to something that fits TV is holding it back a little.
Cai
2023-03-07 17:05:32 +0000 UTCMe and my gf were blown away by this episode. Incredible we get to experience this. Excited for the pod!!
A Hind D
2023-03-07 17:04:32 +0000 UTCFirst! I loved this episode. Troy Baker was fantastic. Plenty of action in this one, Bella was great, David was creepy, it scratched all the parts for me.
Mateusz Kuklinski
2023-03-07 17:00:59 +0000 UTC
