Sacred Symbols+, Episode 276 | The Last of Us (HBO) Review Discussion and Spoilercast (Season 1, Episode 9)

It's a decent enough show, but Ellie's and Joel's relationship isn't nearly as fleshed out as in the game, and this should've been the core of the show. We got only like 2 scenes with the pun book. 3rd and 7th episode feel out of place in a 9ep run. They feel like side-stories that have almost no bearing on the plot, that would be better suited for a spin-off. Lack of Clickers makes it feel like they don't really need a cure, either. And what's with all the pristine, brand new-looking clothes that everyone's wearing? Aside from Joel's shirt, the clothes people are wearing 30years into the apocalypse, look better than what I see on the street everyday. No patches, no holes, no wear and tear. Even David's people looked dressed too good for their circumstances. Also that's not how gasoline works - you can't just sip it straight from a broken car and expect it to reset it's lifespan, as Joel has put it. Diesel can last up to a year, and gasoline up to 6 months. Without the means to refine oil there shouldn't be any viable fuel left at this point. The whole hospital battle felt out of place, too - in the game Joel was sneaking around heavily armed and armored guys, mostly avoiding combat, to get to Ellie - here he killed literally everyone without breaking a sweat. That's not how you build stakes, or tension, in a show. It's stuff like this, along with poor compositing at times, that takes you out of the show. Overall it's ok, but it wasn't a page-turner that I was expecting.

MISZCZOGRZMOT

Not really, cause the whole premise of the show is the fungal apocalypse. Without it anywhere in sight the premise of Ellie's cure seems pointless, and also the setting feels wasted.

MISZCZOGRZMOT

With a run time that's just shy over 30 minutes when you cut out the credits, I felt a big sense of haste in moving us along the story. Joel's outing from the hospital felt like a quickly drawn montage. Compared to the dimly lit conclusion of the game, with that haunting hospital alarm as soldiers continue to chase him with Ellie in his arms, I felt this episode's defining moments were rushed.

Surge!

The way I took this was that the mother super loaded antibodies to the baby when she was bitten. So the baby got a massive dose of antibodies but no infection. It’s actually brilliant. What a great wrap up.

Greg Hommel

If I was Joel, and I had spent nearly a whole year travelling with someone that I was tasked to protect, going through the depths of depravity in a world left to its own vices, while avoiding a plague of sorts, all while building a relation with someone that makes you feel human again and opens you up to loving...I wouldn't be in such a rush to loose it. Certainly not for the world. It is unfortunate that he robbed her of that choice, thats what makes him a bad friend.

Jakob Podstawek

Personally, I think Joel is a hero. He saves the earth from potential destruction, onset by human greed and hunger for power. He also balances the equation between humans and nature by cementing a predator thats higher in the food chain to us. Ironically, one that is derived from earth itself. All the greenies should be designing a memorial in his name 😉. At the end of the day, its all perspective and life experience. Personally, I don't see him as being a "bad guy" for making choices that helped him and the ones that are closest to him. Tess and Tommy included. Does it hurt other people in the process, sure does. But everyone has a selfish side and when push cones to shove, you will do what ever is in the best interest of your own personal values. If thats to consider the human race, then your actions will skew towards decisions that best fulfills the needs of society, if its for personal gain or emotional attachment, then your actions will be geared towards your own wants.

Jakob Podstawek

Love Colin but I think his discourse on how tv can impact the viewers mental health was a bit, Iunno. I had a friend whose father committed suicide and if a tv show discussed the topic, or even showed an attempt, it would just ruin her mood for hours. There are just so many examples of things like that. When my mom had a cancer diagnosis (she’s doing well now and totally cancer free) the mere mention of it in a movie or show just hurt me so much. Anyways, great podcast as usual.

The show hammered home the fact that the infected are no longer the principal threat, at least not for someone like Joel It wouldn't make much sense for Joel to care more about a cure than he does about Ellie Also, I would have serious questions and doubts about this cure. How would it be distributed? How would it be protected? It would be hard not to be cynical

Ian Everett Trout

Its funny, Colin and I don't agree on much that often, whether its politics or gaming opinions.......but when it comes to TLOU ending or TLOU2 in general, Colin you are MY GUY and when he's right he's right!

Josh Tarpley

To answer Colin’s question, yes. In the walking dead, the group encounters several functioning towns. It sounds like he’s describing the town Alexandria which they find in season 5 episode 11 (which is my favorite season of post apocalyptic drama on television ever) but after Alexandria the world of the walking dead expands tenfold. Encountering groups of all types. Dangerous, kind, barely functional, evil. All using the apocalypse to their advantage in different ways. Some work together, some are at war. Most notably, the commonwealth in the final season of the show has a population of about 50,000 people with concerts, theaters and everything they had before. Just thought I’d point this out since it was brought up. Sorry for the overload of information. Enjoyed the show! Keep it coming!

Xavier Gomez

Colin, you say that in the second season, they need to slow down what happens in the game, and they can't possibly go right into it. That's precisely my issue with the second game. It went into it way too fast. I agree with you. The right thing to do is to slow it down, which is what I wish they did in the game as well.

Jeff Caseres

Prefer it so much.

Noah Friscopp

Chernobyl season 2 would just be STALKER and I’m so down.

Noah Friscopp

Joel’s one of the real ones

Cody Mahoney

Podcast of the year will be the Knockback on Last Of Us Part 2 once Dagan plays it. Loved his predictions. I just finished it for the first time it’s a mastah-piece.

Zander

Have to say these spoilercasts have been great. The weekly drop of episodes was such a good thing. The old school part of me is like ‘why aren’t all shows like this’ lol

Aswad Charles

To me, the idea of "lived experience" stems from a false presumption that too many people lack empathy, so it's a way to shrug off criticism of some people's actions. That isn't to say that lots of people who use it intend it that way, quite the contrary, since Dustin used it in the exactly opposite fashion. Joel's choice makes sense, in context, even though it wasn't the right one. The term is hated, for good reason. Used "properly", it's intended to remove agency from people, to justify poor choices. I loved Part I because of the father daughter story, and the rays of hope within, and disliked Part II because of it's abject, relentless bleakness, for what that's worth. It was good for what it was, but not for me. I wonder if future seasons of the show may do it better.

Max Stahl

Did Ellie get a Wesley Snipes Blade origin story?

Jared A.

I was on board with Joel’s choice back then and even more so 10 years later. I have daughters now and my perspective is that Joel’s decision is the only decision. Why would he care about humanity 20 years after it ended? Humanity took his daughter away from him. Ellie was what mattered not the world. The world was over by that point. I’ll tell you now as a father given that choice, I’d do exactly what Joel did. No one matters more than my kid. No one.

Messenger

Colin, I'm convinced the Rodgers/Jets deal is going to be like the Xbox/Activision deal. It's just going to annoyingly drag out forever lol.

Josh Gamez

I wasnt a dad when I played the game for the first time. I thought Joel was a Villain and unjustified in his decision. As a father when watching the show, i still find Joel to be the Villain, but I can justify his actions in my own mind now. Not sure I would do the same thing he did.... but Im not sure I wouldnt either.

Joe B

vaginas, Colin, a baby comes from a woman’s vagina.

Mackenzie

Colin, in terms of why there’s 9 episodes, I think 10 was originally the plan. In the first podcast they said 1&2 were both combined into the pilot. Not sure how early that decision was made but it sounded like it was after early audience feedback.

Cai

“Lola Bunny is a no, the giraffe is a maybe.” Lmao Hear me out Col: Drop Defining Duke Ultimate, switch it with an anime podcast featuring Matty, Cog, Dustin, Micah, and Dagan. 🤷🏻‍♂️

NeO JD

Neil stated that it was just a happy coincidence but it’s not intended that way.

NeO JD

When I saw the farmhouse my mind automatically jumped to the farmhouse that is in The Last of Us 2. Wonder if they'll use that same farmhouse or if there is significance with that farmhouse.

Paul Knickerbocker

Talking about if you would sacrifice your kid, or would you sacrifice your parent, I'm surprised none of you asked would you sacrifice your parent? How about your brother/sister?

Angel DeJesus

The complaint about there not being enough infected, feels like when people complained we didnt get all the answers about the idland in LOST.

Simon

Ellie definitely had no clue that her life was in danger in order to find the cure. She is constantly mention what the plans are afterwards. Also she straight up tried to cure sam with her blood and next episode asks Joel why it didn’t work and he said it probably requires a little more than that. Instead what Ellie is most likely experiencing is complex ptsd, and routinely disassociating due to not being able to cope with the extreme stress of winter. Her conversation with Joel isn’t to appease him so he doesn’t chicken out, it’s to reassure him that “hey I’ve been through a lot, I want to get there so we can move on to our next chapter and I can feel unburdened by my survivors guilt”

Dustin Johnson

Great coverage of the show guys, to go along with a fantastic season all in all imo. Always love the conversation that goes with a prestige tv show week to week. I think the theory of the 9 episodes is a little conspiratorial though (sorry Colin!). HBO are following this up with the final season of Succession (which I personally can't wait for too) so I'd say subscriptions will be strong anyway. HBO seems to have done a great job for a long stretch now of having a big show ready to take over when another big show comes to the end of a season.

Deemac

Haven't actually seen that braided girl so I'll have to go back and see what it looked like, but for what it's worth Druckmann has said that wasn't Abby

Deemac

Dude, I agree and have a big problem with that. Joel and Ellie go from Kansas City to Wyoming, then to Colorado, and finally to Utah and don't encounter another infected, at least on camera. I feel like that's unacceptable and makes the potential cure seem unimportant.

Matthew Cooper

I liked some things but at the end of the day it feels like a gateway for people to play the game. My biggest gripe was the lack of infected. After Sam and Henry died in the show—Joel and Ellie never see another infected. The only infected in the show after episode 5 was in episode 7, which was a flashback to when Ellie got bit by one with Riley and episode 9, which was another flashback with Ellie’s mom.

Vonoran

If humanity had not arrived, all the plants would have suffocated in about 2 million years - lack of CO2 in atmosphere. Something to think about.

TreelineMars

Can’t we say tho that humanity is so far gone that it’s not even worth saving at this point.

Ren Quin

Gotta talk about how cold Joel is with the rifle. That mf don't miss. Also, would Colin or Micah give up Rush to save the human race? Figure it would be the right comparison.

Francis

Interesting take on Tony Soprano “getting better” as the show went on, especially since he (slight sopranos spoiler) fully embraces the darkness by the end of the show. Don Draper definitely got better as Mad Men went on, definitely due for a rewatch.

Stephen Forgione

The only thing I could allow is saying maybe she was talking about what happens after like she is in denial and want to do light talk like we will do this and that. In the game I remember vividly that when Marlene tell you off I was like I am going to get that girl out, I (Joel) promise her I was going to teach her how to play guitar and all. To me the Fireflies brought it on themselves by not allowing Joel to consult Ellie and ask her if she wanted to go on with it.

RD_21

It's easier this way. =)

Colin Moriarty

The best of both worlds.

Colin Moriarty

I legitimately thought that the giraffe was really well done CGI. But the compositing makes the look of the scene make a ton of sense. And I thought they actually captured how Salt Lake City looks really well.

Noah Friscopp

Morality isn't natural. Social Darwinism is morality naturalized and it's anathema. Also, utilitarianism is a relatively recent invention and I'm surprised to hear you're such an adamant adherent of it. There are numerous philosophical problems with it.

Jake Z

There is a theory that Abby does make a cameo. Theres a girl with abbys braid that runs from Joel when he goes on the shooting spree in the hospital but you never see her face. Also, there were originally 10 episodes but Craig Maizin said (i think in the TLOU podcast) that they felt it worked better pacing wise to cut the first 2 eps together. I think the first ep originally ended with Joel burning the little boys body at the camp when the big reveal happens and he pulls down his mask.

XnXblkout

LMFAO, what an opening...wow Colin, wow. 😂🤣😂 (Freddy Krueger is a bitch!)

Lou & Rei Loper

I hope so, that would be fantastic and my body is ready!

Lou & Rei Loper

I've been waiting for this podcast episode so I could finally ask the question that the show itself put in my head by how it all flowed in the last two episodes. Ignoring the very obviously fucked up rape stuff about David...did he and Joel basically do the same thing? Without us allowing any sympathetic reasoning for "why" who did what...how different is what Joel does to what David wanted to do? To take a girl from the people she was 'supposed to be with', so that she could fulfill a role in your life that only she could seemingly fill, kill whoever gets in the way and lie to her in order to get it done. David is a fucking scum of the EARTH person, but the way the show paints Joel especially in the very last episode...gave me the vibe of someone kidnapping/acquiring/whatever a person you refuse to let go of, no matter what it cost them. The way Joel talked to Ellie and just kept comparing her to his daughter over and over again like she was the new replacement was very interesting. Just curious what others think about this when we do not allow ourselves to be colored by any emotions involved (difficult I know). (p.s. I do not think the game had the same vibe as the show did about this)

Lou & Rei Loper

Please tell me you guys will do a TLOU II Dagen spoilercast when he plays the game 😂

Austin Clemence

I haven't listened to this episode just yet, but do you mean from the finale, or when they showed Dina a few episodes ago?

Lou & Rei Loper

Did no one else notice the tease of Dina?

Tyler

Anyone find it weird that they took out the blood splatter whenever Joel shoots Marlene? I loved that section but still found it a bit odd they didn't do include it. I 100% agree with Dustin as far as Joel's decision is concerned. "Colin is right" about using the 2nd season to expand the world. It makes more sense for the show in my opinion. Thanks for doing these episode recaps!

Brannon H

Joel was 100% correct. The morally wrong decision would have been to walk out and allow it to happen.

Brandon V

Good luck to the Jets if they get Rodgers. Biggest narcissist in sports and his lack of a "Decision" just shows how big his ego is. Jets trying to sign all his old teammates just to make him happy.

Joe B

The ladder/giraffe part was straight from the game. It's a brilliant bit of game design. The whole dropping the ladder down routine becomes so repetitive throughout the game that it's jarring when Ellie doesn't respond, just like the show. Then when it's interrupted as she sees the giraffe, you have to scramble to get the ladder yourself and chase her to find out what she's seen. The silhouette was also in the game

PapercutClitSlitter

I really wish they would have had a portion of the episode dedicated to the underground tunnel right before they get to the hospital. That part of the game is intense and has always stood out to me. But damn that first 10 minutes of the episode was absolutely tragic.

Michael Mashpotato

Completely agree. I was also thinking this feels really rushed while watching it. It's like a 20 minute time span in which they are caught by the firefiles, Joel learns their plan for Ellie, and Joel is driving away with Ellie. Kept thinking there has to be more than this. Felt very underwhelming. Also there was no suspense in Joel fighting through the Fireflies. He just Ramboed through all of them.

Zach

I never Interpreted that Ellie knew she would be sacrificed. She talked multiple times about what her and Joel would do after the Fireflies made a cure and got back to Jackson. Also I've always been curious how the Fireflies would spread the vaccine I think they would definitely keep it for themselves and that wouldn't suddenly heal society there would still be raiders, cults, fedra etc out there looking to take it for themselves and the infected could still tear you apart

Walker Simmons

HOW they got captured by the fireflies was such a wasted opportunity that I was actually shocked. In the episode they just toss a flashbang at them and it’s done. In the game (although a bit game-y) Joel is caught in the bus that’s filling with water. Ellie, even though she can’t swim, jumps onto the bus to help him and gets swept away. Joel swims to her motionless body and drags her onshore. She’s not breathing so he starts to give her chest compressions/CPR and even though the Fireflies tell him to put his hands up and have guns aimed at him, he’s so desperate and is refusing to give up on her until he gets smacked with a gun butt. That is one of THE most powerful moments in the game and they opt for a flashbang. This is one of the reasons this episode felt totally rushed. It felt so rushed that by the time they got to the iconic ending, “Promise me…” “I promise.” “..Okay.” It didn’t feel like a very satisfying ending, the way that it did in the game.

John

Colin I really think you should try getting a fade on the sides of your hair. And just slightly longer on the top. I think it would look great on you.

Bogey

How I feel and have felt about TLOU is final, and stems from my intimate experience with the game. I must say, however, that seeing it in live action has given me great reassurance that it is absolutely a masterpiece. It also shows the unique quality that interactive entertainment has to offer. The story was crafted and unfolded in a unique way that only a game could offer, and it adapted to the small screen in such a way that despite 50% of the content being missing, it still resonated in a powerful and emotional manner. Bravo to every last person that played even the smallest role in its conception.

Greg Hommel

Second!

Mateusz Kuklinski

Back to two SS+ episodes a week now 😃 And these will be waiting for me once I finally watch the show.

RD_21