Sacred Symbols+, Episode 293 | Jaffe x Moriarty: The Great GamePass Debate (Video)

A ton of those shows and movies were not exclusive to streaming services? I would argue the shows/movies that have come with the streaming boom have been subpar and lacking in quality.

Denver Walker

"Neverland Ranch" you say, "Touch Arcade" you say, naming is unfortunate depending on your local arcade and ranch experience.

Berg

I feel like no one talks about Chained Echoes. I adore that game.

Ryan Hayman

finally gonna watch this!!!

Pyo

My dream is for Jaffe to work for LSM one day. Fucking legend

Michael Hedrick

Colin, I love the episodes with Jaffe and you, et al discussing the industry and business. Might I suggest a series consisting of you, Jaffe, Hogue, Park and a rotating guest from the industry? I think a format like this, where you guys get into the nitty gritty of the industry would be absolutely fascinating.

Elonchan

I’ll agree 100% with jaffe that games are too big and too long in development. I got no problem playing a 6-8 hour experience like the resident evil games. Why couldn’t they have made the new GoW game as maybe 2 games at 20 hours a piece instead of 40 and instead of a 5 year lead time, you get two with a 2 or 2 and a half year cycle. I’ll also put my 2 cent in for the quality of Xbox games. Microsoft is more worried about coddling studios because they are suppose to be the “nice guys” in the industry. At this point it’s like pistol whipping a blind kid. Sorry but not sorry, the people working for these studios do not have the passion and drive as all the generations previous and the quality of these games shows. I’m glad they’re getting canned. They suck, they’re lazy and then they deflect it by getting those that are actually passionate and talented fired by saying they promote “bro culture”. Fuck the overpaid hacks, I hope their next job is asking customers if they want fries with that.

Michael Thew

Started as a conversation about the business model and pretty much became xbox vs PlayStation for some reason and why Sony locking down exclusives is somehow wholesome, even though the effect on the customers and market is identical to what Microsoft is doing when buying a company outright. Sonys PS Plus implementation is great imo. Some games I wouldn't nesesarily want to buy pop up on PS Plus (eg Watch Dogs Legion this month). Maybe the mistake MS made with game pass is offering first party AAA as day one drops. Maybe old and new models can work together. Maybe the old and new NEED to work together.

Greg Dawson

I have no problem with subscription services, I have a problem with Microsoft being the ones attempting it in games. They're obviously running it as a loss leader when you factor in the opportunity cost of losing a le carte sales, making acquisitions and running their studios. It's a fantastic deal at the moment for consumers, but that's the monopolistic strategy Microsoft always employs. They have done in the past and it appears like it again, prop up a loss leader with their deep corporate coffers to drive a market towards unsustainability, then through attrition remain as the only option in that market. That's why we're stuck with no real operating software choices and they've attempted it with Web browsers, media software, corporate software and so on. They've been in court for Monopolistic tactics more than any other company and they use their money and power to run or legislate their competition out of business. I wish they would leave games or just invest in other publishers, the industry would be better off.

Yalingo

Could not agree with Colin more about raspberry yogurt. The absolute best.

Doug, just Doug

"Then fucking do that, you disappointing fuck" - David Jaffe (2023)

Jonathan Turner

Jaffe goated confirmed

Nicholas Tubens

Jaffe the Onion, has a ring to it

Joe

Tried gamepass when gears 5 came out. Absolutely fantastic day one gamepass game, but I eventually dropped the service. I just wait patienly and buy games on discount. I don't even need to sub to Gold anymore since f2p games don't require it anymore. MS would get way more money from me if I were to subscribe.

What an exotic man

Brian Comstock

Jaffe did great at pushing back on some of Colins narratives here. Good on Colin for having someone on who will actually push back. I still find this opinion that Gamepass is full of shovelware to a provable lie. I've been gaming since the NES and I've owned mostly every console except for some of the Sega consoles. Gamepass has day 1 launched some of my top 10 and top 20 games of my life. Yes, Redfall is fucken garbage and should have been canceled. It's flawed to its core but that doesn't make the next 10 awesome games low quality. - Psychonauts 2 - Hi Fi Rush - Gears 5 - Forza Horizon - Age of Empires - Chained Echoes - Flight Simulator - Pentiment - Grounded - Yakuza: Like a Dragon - Vampire Survivors - Wo long - Outriders - Plague Tale Requiem I can go on and on. Those games launched day 1 into Gamepass. It is a lie that Gamepass is low quality.

bix hutch

Amen, Brother

Ib Saint

I can't believe Jaffe would let his kid play SNAKE. The game literally simulates the player taking part in the fall of man AS THE SERPENT. It's true to life though, as the serpent eventually devours himself in the process. A man who sins against Him, sins against his own soul.

PRETENTIEUX

This was a fantastic listen. Great insight and reasonable points made by both sides. Well done men

Kevin Whiteacre

I hope Jaffe can join the team one day. It's always great having him on.

Levelupbrady

I think the main issue is if gamepass did not exist what does Xbox have to offer. PS+ is not the product holding up Sony it an added feature the AAA games is what brings people to PlayStation. It still amazing to me that a company that had a 64% fail rate at launch (³⁶⁰) is still on the market today not because they strived but because they got bailed out of it. I feel there is no creativity it's the same motto they had before. '' Pay to Win''.

RU46N2 (REY)

Just so you know, the YouTube video says this is episode 292 instead of 293.

Nickster

I have a huge appetite for high-level conversations like this and you both delivered in spades. Thanks very much!

Joe Perez

This was a great episode. I think you both bring out the best discussions out of one another. Jaffe is a wild man but Xbox would do well to get him to consult on managing their studios and gamepass. Or at least ask him to point them to people that can truly make it better

Kenneth Oms

He's right though, when netflix is putting out trash shows it doesn't change the fact that the streaming service as a concept is great, especially for the consumer. Just that they aren't putting great things on the service.

Dick Justice

This was incredible 👏🏿 thanks gentlemen

Avery

Colin doesn’t play these games so he forgets this. Best games on game pass are clearly indies, AA and multiplayer live service games since most people expect them to be free now. But yes the AAA single player games make no sense for a service system but every other game does

Tyee

just over an hour in and i find it annoying jaffe’s argument is almost verging on evangelical boiling down to having faith in the model and saying you can’t attribute the consistent first party offerings being bad to the model but surely you have to as so far all MS has released is lacklustre disappointments and the evidence suggests that isn’t going to change any time soon. however, i do agree with his points about it being great for indie games and AA games. his point about games being able to cut out all the bloat was a great bit of insight and his hypothetical about them releasing smaller interstitial episodes that are a tight 4 hours rather than an overloaded slog would be really nice to see.

Greg Hadden

A little anecdote about that Jim Ryan picture holding a controller: When I was working at the Gamescom exhibition center, I saw Jim Ryan checking out the PS booths multiple times before they were open to the public. That must have been 2016 or 17 when he was still in charge of Europe. And he also went to some of the kiosks to play some of the games. He definitely held the controller like a normal, sane person would, lol. I guess that one picture we all love was simply a promotional one where they wanted to make sure you can see as much of the Dualshock as possible.

Johannes

Great conversation. You guys both made great points and it is not easy to say if its good or bad as I think its still too soon to say or not if the Netflix style subscription model will be good as a whole for the gaming industry or not. My main fear for the subscription model is if you look at companies in other industries like Spotify paying an artist .00001% of a penny for each stream to where an artist has to have a million streams to make a thousand dollars, or even with the reasoning for the recent writers strike in Hollywood now not getting any royalties for streaming, mega streaming companies tend to screw over the artists who make content for their platforms and I'm worried that will one day happen to developers or third party publishers in the games industry too if games exclusively become paid subscription models owned by Sony, Microsoft or even Nintendo. How will creators and developers make any sort of profit on their game if development costs keep going up with each generation? More games will use the free to play model and microtransactions where you have to spend hundreds of dollars to play all the content in a game will reign supreme. It has already happened to a certain extent, but it will be far worse than it is now.

Peter Adams

how i approach sub models is a little different from most others because i'm a physical media guy. so if i see something i like on netflix (like strangers things) i buy the blu-ray box sets. hear something i like on apple music, i'll buy the cds and/or vinyl. same with gamepass. after playing games on gamepass, i've purchased several of them after the fact because they were that good, and i wanted to leave a more tangible financial reward for the devs.

Keith Huntington

JAFFE JAFFE JAFFE !

Nicholas

I love these episodes where you discuss opposing views I'd like to see some other topics in the future. I definitely agree with you that there is no way gamepass is profitable when you factor in the cost of running all the studios, licensing and the major loss in game sales on the platform. The only reason they can get away with it is because of big daddy Microsoft

Walker Simmons

couldnt have timed this better with the abject failure of redfall

iain mcmanus

Love this conversation man. Very good. Colin, one note I’d add is that when taking into equation how a game can be monetized, you have to consider how much MTX account for a games revenue outside of initial purchase. For example, the top games currently on gamepass are FIFA and Madden. A good question would be, does having more players with access and able to consistently spend in game supersede the one time transaction? Hence why everyone is going F2P/GAAS? Even when accounting for 1st party development costs, if your most popular games in the subscription have millions spending on MTX. There’s a path to profitability due to higher player counts and consistent monetization/engagement alongside the recurring subscription revenues. Those types of games can even fund the development of bigger/smaller games. Which are the types of games Xbox has made for years. Forza, Sea of Thieves, Halo, Gears, etc.

Kbr Sports

Oooo yessssss FINALLY

Bobby Woods

Worth the wait. Excellent discussion!

Vonoran

Thanks for doing this guys :-) Great conversation and content!!

Ryan H

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes....

Manny Morales

I said as soon as this conversation happened, I was becoming a first time patreon subscriber!!! Welp here I am!!

The Central Long Islander

Massive gamepass fan. His points about indies are absolutely right. Pentiment was one of the best games I've ever played. Not only do I never buy that game without gamepass it never gets made. Period. Love it

Adam Turley

I was hoping it would be this. Let’s fucking go!!

Shawn

Jaffe has always struck me as the sort of old school, Gen X'er PC gamer I grew up with... He reminds me of late night WoW raids and Tribes 2 disc launchers to the face

Born-Blind

God dammit the man delivers

clos512

LETS GOOOO!!!!!

InsufficientWzrD

Goats

TheWebslinger

The ol shadow drop

Stewy108

Can't wait for this one!

Callum Pearce