Sacred Symbols, Episode 261 | Imagine Accepting the Truth (Video)

You couldn't be more spot on with FFXVI Colin and thank you for educating folks on all this nonsense about it not being "Final Fantasy" and insanity about the story being bad. The game is amazing, but yes it is unfortunate the performance wasn't better (though it is nowhere near unplayable), hopefully there can be further improvements yet to resolve this.

Josh Jelen

I've taken so much shit over the years for loving Final Fantasy 8.... Understanding and mastering that junction system set me on a path to programming and managing IT systems and technology Integration I swear.

Born-Blind

Honestly this was a tough listen, Colin just kept going on and on about the same points and rarely passed it along, and when he did it was almost exclusively to Dustin. Felt really strange. There really should have been more of a discussion from various angles. I dont usually provide criticism but felt like I needed to say something. Wish this was a more nuanced discussion.

RFK Rodgers 2024

Hey gents. The topic on game length is really interesting to me. I think back to when I was a young lad gaming in the 90's and early 2000's and wishing that games were actually longer. I realize now a few things have changed this sentiment. One is the fact that being an adult with a full time job and family makes it increasingly difficult to dedicate as much time to gaming. The other is that there are just so many more "great" games out there waiting to be played than ever before. It seems to be a blessing and a curse. Having many options is wonderful and my young self would be living in constant awe. The side-effect of this is that given that time is finite I'm losing out on being able to play many of the greats that are out there. When I start a game I play it to completion (even if it becomes laborious). I do think that once in a blue, an epic game with wonderful storytelling and RPG mechanics deserves all it needs to be fully fleshed out, but again, I can't agree more that game-length needs to be tightened up more. A solid 9-12 hour experience wins all day in my book. Anyway that's my take. Be well!

I've never put pressure on him to play isometric top down RPG's given the numerous times he's mentioned people doing so... But he would certainly appreciate the writing at least. It's unbelieveably good... And I play literally almost every game, every genre.... on all consoles.... I've never encountered this much incredible dialogue in a game. It must be that their pulling a lot of it from high quality source material

Born-Blind

Colin would love this game if he gave it a chance, but he never will sadly

Brady Goeskel

XVI is a Final Fantasy for sure. Although I miss the turn-based or pseudo turned-based (FFX conditional TB in particular), a new Final Fantasy entry should be vastly different from the previous version - that is what makes Final Fantasy great in my opinion. Outside of combat this game feels more like an extension of Final Fantasy XI and XIV if anything, which is fine by me.

Ryan Hayman

Colins rant on ff haters was legendary

Pyo

I've been playing Baldurs Gate 3 in Alpha for years... Larian Studios appears to have the best writers in the industry. Even the side missions and interactions are top tier.... though much of the source material from DnD probably helps. The game almost feels like a love letter to old school DnD fans. While the studio that made the original Baldurs Gate no longer exists, Larian Studios has made it well known that they're massive fans of the original and plan to feed that energy into the development of this game. I have some seriously fond memories of being 8 or 9 and stumbling through that world as best I could. In many ways these were the games that introduced me to reading fiction and fantasy books at a young age. Don't sleep on this game if you're a fan of DnD! P.s. it's waaaaaaaay more accessible than Divinity Original Sin 2 Dustin

Born-Blind

By the time Final Fantasy XX comes out, it'll be a multiplayer only, world war II first person shooter and people will still praise it and rationalize why it's still 100% a FF game...

Mario Diosdado

i'm playing FF16 on easy mode apparently, cause i have the ring equipped that automatically executes combos at random, so all i have to do is tap l1 repeatedly and my character goes through a laundry list of balls awesome combos. lol

Keith Huntington

I said deep crafting or item/weapon economies. I’m also 20 hours in and there are no elemental resistances in the game. This is confirmed by Skillup, who finished the game.

Brady Goeskel

I sent this DM wise but wanted to add it here. Change, not tradition defines Final Fantasy: https://lordsofgaming.net/2023/05/opinion-change-not-tradition-defines-final-fantasy/

The Rose Experience

A lot of this just simply isn’t true. Many didn’t have deep crafting and XVI has resistances and weaknesses in its combat. Every Final Fantasy has evolved and changed, it’s the least traditional mainstay RPG series we have and that’s ALWAYS been the case. From gameplay, to visuals and setting, to sound and presentation, Final Fantasy has always pushed the boundaries of what it, and the genre could be.

The Rose Experience

I wrote this a long time ago but recently adapted it to include FFXVI. Maybe it’ll help. https://lordsofgaming.net/2023/05/opinion-change-not-tradition-defines-final-fantasy/

The Rose Experience

Need to get a SSxDD on the FTC revelations.

OTTAPPS

I think an episode on WHAT Final Fantasy is as a series and an IP would be fascinating. As someone who has never played a FF game, I hear "Anyone who thinks this is not a Final Fantasy Game is uneducated" followed by "No Final Fantasy game has been fundamentally the same and changes drastically with each entry" I left that portion of the episode thinking "So is what the hell IS Final Fantasy?". Combat, characters, story, mechanics, focus, and gameplay changes every time? How is it that anyone gets invested in these? Would love to hear from some FF fans! Or maybe I need go watch a mini doc on YouTube.

Liz Folley

FF XVI is a great DMC game but a disappointing and watered down Final Fantasy game. There's no RPG elements whatsoever, no party members that you can edit weapons/equipment, etc., no strategy or depth to the combat whatsoever, it's way too easy (only died once on an Eikon battle in action mode, have played 22 hours and at main quest 19) and is simply a button mashing QTE fest. If you love DMC, you'll love FF XVI but if not, then it's unlikely that you will. Still a great game but FF wise, Remake/Rebirth was/will be superior and should be the way that FF games are, party members, real time combat with turn based thrown in but still fast paced and combat that has depth and strategy to it. Basically, FF XVI is more style and flash than substance. It's a spectacle.

peter42O

FF16 has been great so far but the eikon fights are boring. They are amazing looking but the actual gameplay of them has been pretty bad its just hit square until the next cutscene.

Christopher Roman

I like ff16 but wholly agree with you. FF16 is just isn't a FF in all the aspects you listed and many more. Two things can be true at once. FF16 is a great game and and horrid final fantasy.

robert j driscoll

Ugh, trying not to pull my hair out while listening to Colin go on his blistering tirade about people “not knowing what a final fantasy is”. FFXVI’s criticism is not from what it changes/adds but what it has left behind. EVERY mainline FF game had party-based combat. EVERY mainline FF game has had elemental combat resistances/weakness. EVERY mainline FF game has had deep crafting, weapon or item economies. FFXVI is a disappointment not because of what it does, but rather because of what it leaves behind while still holding a mainline Roman numeral.

Brady Goeskel

Microsoft won’t do that because they’ll have to pay at least twice what Sony does to offset PlayStation’s install base. That’d make it even harder for Microsoft to make money on the deal. Instead, MS chooses to acquire sought-after IP, and the talent behind it, so it can make money on the deal(s) faster.

Fenixrisingxl21

I've never disagreed more with a statement than you saying you don't think Sony doesn't have a watch list like Microsoft. Of course they do. Of course why wouldn't they?

Tyler Bello

Great points said well!

Dude I literally started laughing out loud at colins face and reaction when he asked why Microsoft would want Level 5. All this information just makes them look clumsy.

Dylan Michael

That one’s easy. According to Microsoft CFO(?) Amy Hood’s letter to the court, Xbox hasn’t been funded anywhere near as well as MS’ other divisions, which is something she says they’re looking to ramp up. Towards the beginning of the XBO/PS4 cycle, one of the MS higher ups at the time slashed the XBO budget, so at a time when they had a rough launch and needed to reinvest to get good, consistent content out the door, the higher ups went the other way. Might help explain why MS didn’t at least pursue a Sunset Overdrive sequel, or really any other second or third-party partnerships after the first year or so (aside from ROTR, correct me if I’m wrong). If the first major wave of acquisitions didn’t start until 2018, that pretty much gave Sony a wide berth for four years (maybe five?) to get their partnerships and production pipeline rolling practically uncontested. That’s a lot of ground MS/Xbox has to make up, and it knows Sony isn’t slowing down when it comes to producing and signing exclusives. It’s not like MS can call a ‘time out’ that Sony will respect, so now the fastest track MS has to catch up is to buy developers, publishers, and content its fans and potential consumers want to play, while also disrupting the market even further by pumping that content (along with good indie titles) into Game Pass.

Fenixrisingxl21

Why couldn’t they offer to pay for Starfield as a timed-exclusive, too? They obviously have the money. “Oh, Sony pays for 2 or 3 console exclusives a year? Well, I guess we gotta buy the largest publisher on the planet then. Nothing else we can do.” Lmao

Jimmy G

Being a shit product doesn’t make it an underdog. Especially when they are the exact reason for their own failures. When I think of an underdog I think of someone or something that has fought through every disadvantage life has thrown at them and ended up on top. What disadvantage does Xbox have that they didn’t cause themselves?

Colton McKinney

Why did you guys just gloss over the fact that PlayStation tried to make Starfield a timed exclusive? That was a major factor as to why Xbox felt the need to buy Bethesda, especially after they had already made Deathloop and Ghostwire timed exclusives. I don’t know what PlayStation or anybody else would expect a trillion dollar company like Microsoft to do when you’re constantly doing predatory actions like that, eventually you have to expect that the trillion dollar company is going to retaliate and that’s exactly what Xbox has been doing.

Keenan

You must be a lot farther along than I thought you might be in FF16, my friend just jokingly called the game “Final Ball Z” literally a couple days ago. Cannot wait for the overall LSM discussion on the game.

DDTJOESTAR

In the real world. The one where Xbox has been losing for a decade.

George

In what world is a product owned by one of the richest companies in the world an underdog? Clearly only in your world.

Colton McKinney

This take is deranged. Chris made it explicitly clear that the company Microsoft are not the underdog, but the product Xbox is. He is objectively correct in this assessment. I'm sorry that the profound autism you are clearly afflicted with prevented you from deducing this.

George

I’m surprised everyone like FF16. I’m 20 hours in and it’s hold up, cut scene, hold up, fight and spam my powers for easy win, hold up….. also finding the story really kinda boring. I expected Dustin to key into some of this, idk it’s not working for me.

I like listening to sacred symbols....... (sure there's still a hot take somewhere in that statement.)

Surge!

Being shit at your job doesn’t make you an underdog.

Colton McKinney

Your last two sentences clearly states exactly why they’re the underdog right now. How much money they have has nothing to do with it. Regardless of money or past pedigree a NY Yankees or Boston RedSox team can still be considered the underdogs for any given season.

Vanzant

It's kind of like talking to wall at this point when it comes to Colin and Gamepass because even with how good the David Jaffe episode was discussing it. Many points Jaffe could have made were missed. To compare Embracer group's line of acquisitions to Microsoft's is comical. Especially if you read the unredacted document. There's strategy behind each acquisition and the full list you saw was just studios they had that were available that was then filtered down to a smaller Final M&A list that consisted of Thunderful, Supergiant Games, Niantic, Playrix, Zynga, Bungie, IO Interactive and Scopely. I don't disagree with some of Colin's talking points but when you are misinformed your whole case is less compelling. The one reason why I think it's poor sport to cherrypick statements from other publishers and especially Sony who vehemently opposes the Gamepass model. Is because none of them internalize the benefits of bringing their game to a subscription day one outside of Sony which is something they prefer not to do. Activision does not gain the subscribers boost Gamepass receives from their games coming day one. MSFT does. So yeah why would Activision want to pass up initial sales volume for subscription? When the benefits are internalized the incentives change which is why Matt Booty noted in his email the only other competitor with enough content to compete right now is literally Sony. However, Sony just chooses to not go down that road. When you also think through the funnel that only games like the Last of Us are priority to be made and can't be supported by that type of revenue model, sure. However, I think it glaringly ignores the VAST array of business models in video games. Fifa 23 and Minecraft are the top played games in Gamepass right now with in game monetization that can fund the development of other games. As well as their own upkeep. Having more players with access to those games in a subscription where you internalize the benefits is much different from a publisher who doesn't own it. This came out in the UK documents. This is a retort for Colin but also for anyone who maybe isn't getting the method to how Gamepass can work and how it can support your Last of Us and Horizon's. The more subscribers it gets the more of those games it can fund.

Kbr Sports

Chris saying Xbox is an underdog is laughable but I’d expect nothing else from him. The company spending $70 billion dollars is definitely NOT an underdog.

Colton McKinney

Right bro. Corporation dickriding is so cringe. Literal npc drone barcode forehead shit

Yalingo

I am 7-8 hours into FFXVI so far and I am loving it. The music, the story, the combat, and the world building are all amazing. I am playing on the quality mode and the locked 30fps feels fluid enough.

Tefo

Final Fantasy XVI side quests get much better later on. This game is insane, GOTY so far.

Benjamin Nadeau

I loved Cyberpunk day one on xbox one.

Damon Pond

The irony of you calling for a wambulence while whining lol

MomsLikeMe

Xbox was not founded properly until 2018. That's all I'll say

Edwin Garcia

Damn.the most Colin was right episode ever 🤣 I dunno how you do it but very spot on about the whole tasteless thing you nailed it.

Lucas180

I think this is the most hostilility I've seen in the comment section. I think Microsoft has done a great job of convincing everyone that they are the underdog story. It's wild to see so many people rooting for Xbox to buy up all these publishers. I wonder where the line will be crossed with consumers. Will perception change against them if they buy up Sega, Capcom, Ubisoft, or Take Two? How many publishers will it take for people to turn on them?

Paul Knickerbocker

In regards about subject matter in games, I wonder when the first game about 9/11 will happen. For example, Pearl Harbor was December 7, 1941. Medal of Honor Pacific Assault came out in 2004 where the first level you play as a sailor on the USS Arizona. 63 years apart, we're a couple generations away from Humans who are able to explore that subject in a more focused way I think.

it's funny to me to read so many butthurt comments about Colin for the simple fact that he's been spot on on most fronts about Microsofts completely arbitrary consolidation plans and the overall distaste of publishers towards the day and date subscription model. He's been calling a spade a spade and people gave him a lot of shit for it and still do lol

ToiletDrummer

And yet there wouldn't be a "streaming wars" since according to Matt Booty himself, no company except Sony would be able to keep up with Game Pass.

ToiletDrummer

as a huge Xbox fan and user I really appreciate the educated content across the team..

Andy

You for real dude! You should hear Cog and matty talk smack about PlayStation sometimes. Lmao

Zack Fair

I felt like someone needed to call a wambulence for you guys during this entire episode. This is the first episode I had to shut off because of the nonstop negative energy and bitching, really hope next week is better. Felt like I was watching the PlayStation version of Fox News.

Pretendo

What a episode guys! This is why I give my money to you without thought. You guys continue to kill it. This is by far the biggest and best gaming podcast show out there and with the most value.

Zack Fair

Just listened to the corrections part - I happened to be in that very Five Guys in Barcelona about 6 months ago. It was nice, but then I haven't been to one in America so I can't give you guys a comparison there

Deemac

Imagine the insults a blessing ...

Vitaly

HBO still makes very high quality content that goes into a streaming service day and date 🤷‍♂️

Alex Roberts

Oh I see. My apologies I was referring to console but I appreciate the heads up because I didn't know they did that on pc.

Kevin Padua

They do release their games day and date on PC, just not console. I *think* Ubisoft does, as well. No idea why they’re not bringing those services to console, as I’m sure there are enough people willing to subscribe for day and date access to their libraries.

Fenixrisingxl21

No, there's very little defense of Game Pass profitability in the industry wide convo. It's definitely a strange fixation.

Liz Folley

On console? If so my fault and I will retract my statement

Kevin Padua

Streaming content is garbage, what are you two smoking? "Straight to netflix" is not a phrase that echoes quality. Streaming has created quantity over quality. And gamepass will do the same. Kind of already does with all the mid indies on there.

Stinkling

bingo

Joaquin Branche

For me (as Dustin would say), the Red Dead news is the best gaming news of the year. It has me curious though; since the entire map was recreated for Red Dead 2, including most of Mexico, and there are RDR2 versions of John and some of the other characters, would it be possible for this game to be a remaster using the updated RAGE engine? I know nothing of game development, so I don't know how feasible this theory is. The South Korean rating notes body damage and excessive bloodstains, which were included in the RDR2 rating, but not in the original 2010 RDR1 rating. As a massive Red Dead fan, here's hoping this is a true remaster.

Sean Hatfield

GamePass is value destructive for certain corporations, not consumers... Do you think the cable biz and movie distributors loved the idea of Netflix? By Colin's theory, we should be getting worse and worse content than before, but the truth is the streaming wars have created better and more content for much less money.

Sealegs

All is fair in love and war. Xbox is getting aggressive after finally being properly funded by big Daddy Microsoft. Telling them that they can only compete on our terms just isn't going to fly really.

Gar Kelleher

EA does put their games on their sub service day 1. Its just the higher tier.

rdj

I loved the discussion you guys had, and I truly believe cheering for one corporation over another is weird… BUT… “I don’t want a new Call of Duty deal. I just want to block your merger” is some of the most cold blooded gangster shit I’ve ever heard 😂

Jeffrey Willingham

I had to stop listening because it's killing my holiday weekend vibes. Toxicity appears to have been birthed at the intersection of vehemence and self righteousness. Have a good weekend! Don't blow any fingers off!

alexander atprime

the big 5 the number 5 chris was forgetting was redfall i think

iain mcmanus

because sony is buying away their third party titles. And its not economically smart to just pay triple to keep it on your system.

Brett the Illustrator

Do you think they will fix the Nuclear Disarmament mission that still plagues the game till this day. And will we finally get that last chapter that was rumoured but we never received? If they remake metal gear v?

RU46N2 (REY)

Is there really so many people defending game pass profitability? I feel like a large chunk of this episode was Colin passionately arguing against that belief. Maybe I don't pay enough attention

TreyDogg

Well, maybe present some counterpoints then. I don't necessarily agree with everything that was said but Colin has said that stuff since it first started. And from the looks of it, quite a bit of what he got a lot of shit for was true.

Johannes

Starfield: sticky, long, big

Michael Miller

The teams they have not managed have been their in house studios so yes they can't organically manage their own studios. But the studios they have bought that they have been hands off on have all for the most part done a good job barring redfall. We are talking Obsidian, Inexile, Playground games, Rare, Bethesda is looking good with starfield and more

Halofan117 Halofan

Haven't listened to this episode yet I don't want them to go away personally, I want them to make good games instead of gulping up massive existing IP and compete traditionally. They have tons of IP, tons of studios, why can't they just do something with them that can compete commercially and critically? Why should we trust them with MORE studios and IP if they can't take care of what they already have. Sony and Nintendo have both been through rough patches in the last few decades. They innovated on the actual product that we're all here for(Games), Mircosoft is seemingly attempting to bypass that step totally.

RoughSlpr

I just don’t want Xbox buying up quality IP’s because they can’t manage the teams. I loved Xbox in the past, halo, Gears and Kotor were all system buyers for me. But in the crusade to be the good guy to everyone I think they’ve given their devs to much rope and they use the time unwisely. No hate meant, just is sad to see them turn into this

Michael Thew

Colin, genuine question. Do YOU think the industry would be better If Xbox just went away and we were left with just Playstation and Nintendo? Your rhetoric leads me to believe that's the case. You believe that there's not a single reason to be an Xbox fan (other than being American). You said that in so many words in THIS episode. If the answer is yes, please make an episode on why you think so. That would be fascinating. If the answer is no, what the fuck are you rambling on about in regards to their capitalist business decisions? As if there's a right and "wrong" way to make a company work in this space. It's super cringe.

Liz Folley

I had Moviepass and Sinemia and I'd go to the movies like 3-5 times a week after classes before picking up my little bro from work.

Daniel Cumba

have i ever seen people shill for a corporation? yea here.. u can mask it under this guise of "accountability" for PS because it gives you a level of credibility, but the underlying truth is that you are what you rally against. woefully ignorant to the topics you speak of with cherry picked points to back up your forehead vein popping rants..

Joaquin Branche

I wonder how many games Xbox lose because of the series s.

Michael Thew

" Man, I was deep dicking some bitches last night" - Colin Moriarty (2023)

Jonathan Turner

You didn’t read what I said. In my opinion, that specific topic should have been the title or a specific timestamp. I never said you guys didn’t cover it. You can disagree, but don’t misrepresent what I said.

Bryant

I accept the unquestionable truth

Dm the show. He will reply there

Guns vs Kittens

Five Guys is also in Dublin and it does great tasting burgers.

Niall G

The FTC segment is impossible to timestamp sine we jumped all over the place with it. The timestamps that are there are individual questions we answered on the show. So please listen to the episode before asking about what is or isn't on it. :) -Dustin

Dustin Furman

That’s what I thought too

Skull King

It’s weird that there’s no timestamp for the Sony “redactions” and that they aren’t the title of the show. Isn’t Colin fascinated with game budgets?

Bryant

Colin usually posts a thread for questions a couple of days or so before the show releases. It’s deleted by Friday so make sure to get your questions in early!

Cyprus Davis

This week has felt especially long waiting for this one. Praise!

Tristen Wilbers

Not sure where the best place for questions is, but was wondering if Colin has ever listened to the Designer Notes podcast? It's a great podcast with game devs on it that I think provides some interesting insight into the game dev process

Colin’s reaction of “god..” when the slides made an appearance

LETS GO!

Jonathan Turner