Sacred Symbols+, Episode 314 | Sacred Symbols x Defining Duke: The Great ABK/Microsoft Blowout
Added 2023-07-19 03:06:13 +0000 UTCWelcome to another rousing rendition of Sacred Symbols x Defining Duke, our recurring Sacred Symbols+ subseries that we bring to you each month. This week, the five co-hosts of Sacred and Duke join for a lengthy episode about a topic most of you are clamoring to hear us cover: Microsoft's near-complete acquisition of Activision. Now, anything can happen -- as of the time we recorded, Microsoft and Activision were negotiating an extension to their deal after nearly running out the clock -- but we've recorded this assuming everything goes through. And to keep an incessant focus on Xbox off of the mainline run of Sacred Symbols, we figured we'd dump all of our thoughts here instead. There's not much more to say. Enjoy the show.
(Like Episode #313, we're posting this earlier than it would otherwise go live in our normal schedule, because we feel like you'd really wanna hear it now-ish. Thus, this is Saturday, July 22nd's episode of Sacred+. There will not be another episode of Sacred+ published until Wednesday, July 26th [barring some major news].)
Comments
Yeaaaa go buy Sega too… go buy everything lol.
Evan Cooper
2023-07-28 02:26:27 +0000 UTCOk still listening to the cast….the contradictions are insane. Lol. Oh we can’t have these horrible day 1 games….anddddd now you just said they haven’t but then said they have lol. Sheeesh
Evan Cooper
2023-07-28 02:16:21 +0000 UTCGod Matty too now….ugh you guys are soooooooo insane that this is not a bad thing. Lol. Appreciate the opinions though. The floor is higher for game pass for companies to make no long term money lol. Oof. It’s gonna be so much worse. I dunno how you don’t see Netflix and what is happening there to see everything is trash and like 5 shows actually work and everyone else fails cuz they get paid to be on a terrible service and just die lol. Good luck folks!
Evan Cooper
2023-07-28 00:54:05 +0000 UTCCog….you have to be joking about this argument….they literally just bought the #1 console shooter and now Sony needs to find a way to get one? Halo is trash no one plays it now lol….so they should make Halo Ifinite?? What are we even talking about
Evan Cooper
2023-07-28 00:16:07 +0000 UTCHow does anyone see this as a positive I just don’t know. Btw I have both a series x and ps5…. It’s a horrible addition
Evan Cooper
2023-07-27 23:34:20 +0000 UTCMicrosoft literally didn’t fix the servers until now… lol it’s not a positive…they just ignored the issues until now
Evan Cooper
2023-07-27 23:32:47 +0000 UTCCog is just a great dude to listen to. Love it. Great work gents
Homz
2023-07-27 07:52:36 +0000 UTCGod I love the flavor Cog and Matty add to this
Steve Korber
2023-07-24 23:10:06 +0000 UTCThe key factor you're missing in the equation is the money Microsoft spends to put 3rd party games on gamepass. As they already have 20+ first party studios (Activison pending) they are already operating at a loss with your original calculation but it becomes amplified even more when you factor in 3rd party payouts. If you reduce the average cost to 100mil it indicates profit only without factoring the aforementioned payouts. Gamepass is a loss leader at it's current form, no doubt about it
Seany Mac
2023-07-24 00:11:06 +0000 UTCDustin naturally sides there just as Matty and Cog side more on things. Chris is just a wild card, he’s not bowing to anyone, just being himself.
TL
2023-07-22 23:23:46 +0000 UTCSure okay. $2.9B funds 8 1st party games each year and provides $500M-$750M to pay for other content. Math is not complex.
Raymond Stuart
2023-07-21 01:51:33 +0000 UTCYou're assuming they pay $0 for all the 3rd party games on the service.
Ealia Staroverov
2023-07-20 21:14:40 +0000 UTCI honestly find the whole size of Starfield curfuffle overblown, there will be just as much authored content as their other games but instead of walking to a cave or building for a quest you will fly your ship to a planet for a little while and then leave. Bet the actual playtime will be pretty similar.
Noah Friscopp
2023-07-20 17:05:54 +0000 UTCMaaaan I miss psx.
lazer_josh
2023-07-20 15:51:28 +0000 UTCAgreed. Chris seems to just be there for the paycheck 😂
Edwin Garcia
2023-07-20 13:54:17 +0000 UTCSimple math on GamePass. CADE (Brazil regulator) reported in Oct-22 that Xbox's revenue from GamePass was $2.9B per year. With 25M subscribers, the average subscriber pays $9.66 per month. If all of Xbox's games cost $250M to make, they can fully fund 11-12 AAA games from GamePass revenues alone. And they do still sell games on Xbox, Windows, and Steam. Absolutely, they are giving up opportunity costs because they release 1st party Day 1. I don't understand why people keep saying GamePass is a loss leader and that Xbox has to take money from other parts of the company. Yes when they acquire studios, they use Microsoft money but that is the equivalent of Microsoft investing in their gaming business.
Raymond Stuart
2023-07-20 13:14:02 +0000 UTCGreat episode! Few thoughts: Re: Sony not putting their leadership/employees in the social limelight anymore, I think it has to do with the balance of power that businesses understand now about when you employ/cultivate "personalities" Colin should know this well; IGN lost more than a "few employees" when y'all started Kinda Funny, they lost important elements of what made them stand out. As a business, its a future weakness if you have to account for these people/personalities leaving your circle and needing to be replaced. I think that's why they've been so milquetoast in who's speaking about playstation since the turnover from the Layden period. Re: some of the worst case scenarios, I do agree with Colin that Microsoft is using their cash and fucking with the current balance by continually buying things up so they can chase content and the long term effects are worrisome at best, collapse of the gaming market at worst. I do however agree with some of the thoughts from Matty and Cog, along with Jaffey, in so far as if Microsoft sucks at maintaining a place where people feel like they are able to create, then they'll find another path. And none of this matters since creatives will "find a way" to create and we'll just be in a different environment/gaming paradigm. I worry about all this consolidation because you are buying the business, not the talent. I'd be interested to see what would happen if Sony poaches an entire group to actively build a new cod competitor with folks from Activision who don't want to deal with Microsoft and they lack of leadership/production capabilities. Planning on the time that Microsoft will eventually foreclose Sony. Regardless, interesting times ahead. Glad we have some sort of finality to at least now start working towards how to ameliorate and deal with this, from all the different sides.
Joe Galati
2023-07-20 06:31:36 +0000 UTCSony doesn’t need to make acquisitions, but MS is basically playing a different game than them now. They’re not in the “console war” anymore. They’ve moved beyond that, which is good. But Sony also can’t rest on their laurels. They need to innovate, and make sure the art of games is at the center of everything.
Brandon Garvin
2023-07-20 05:53:42 +0000 UTCSilly man he is not
Benjamin Stilwell
2023-07-20 05:08:34 +0000 UTCGreat episode, wish COG could stay longer.
Ib Saint
2023-07-20 02:45:43 +0000 UTCI have to say I like Colin and Cog's dynamic here. Sure they're PS and Xbox, but I don't think that matters all that much. The difference is deeper in that Colin is representing a type of economic analyst for the industry and Cog is equally strong in representing the consumer side of things. Makes for a good conversation regardless of which perspective you end up siding with more.
Ealia Staroverov
2023-07-20 00:17:26 +0000 UTCI’m not saying Chris and Dustin are some kind of yes men, but the different way Matt and Cog are willing to directly check Colin is exciting. It made for an interesting and varied dialogue throughout the episode. And I loved the points Chris and Dustin made along the way, as well. Just a great episode all around.
Zackery Parkerson
2023-07-19 23:18:32 +0000 UTCI'm blaming fans for not buying and completing games, they cry on twitter when a game isn't going to gamepass. I blame Xbox for being dog shit with their production pipeline of games.
Otacon_Ocelot
2023-07-19 22:22:53 +0000 UTCColin really took the scenic route to explain that point. JEEEZ.
ᴮᵁᴺˢ
2023-07-19 22:07:30 +0000 UTCThat is the fault of the products and policies of Microsoft at the time, it's laughable you are blaming fans and not the business for products not selling.
Joshua
2023-07-19 21:32:18 +0000 UTCI'd like to lightly push back on the completion tracking. I'm a guy who has downloaded tons of games on gamepass / steam like (pentiment / HI Fi Rush/ Sniper Elite 5) and just because I haven't completed them that doesn't mean I don't plan to. I simply have so many playthrough of different games I'm in the middle of. I'm halfway through HiFi Rush and plan to finish it but Colins stats lump me in as "people who didn't want to finish it".
Joshua
2023-07-19 21:29:52 +0000 UTCLmfao you are literally saying Pentiment and interesting in same sentence wtf. Collin is right, how many bs Xbox games sell millions copies for $70? NONE
Otacon_Ocelot
2023-07-19 18:53:25 +0000 UTCColin simping for big budget $70 / 40hr games as the end all be all and should be protected at all costs is painful. Games like Hi-Fi Rush and Pentiment are single handedly more interesting to someone like me than anything Sony 1st party has released in the last 4 years.
Liz Folley
2023-07-19 18:21:20 +0000 UTCPhil we want Starcraft back in some form. Revive ghost !!!!
william planas
2023-07-19 18:13:05 +0000 UTCSure, but if my goal is to run 10 miles and I only make it 4.5 miles then I have utterly failed at what I was trying to achieve. If you only run .5 miles I can point at you and say Ha! I ran 4 more miles then you, but we both failed. Just makes me petty for boasting about failing less.
Zach
2023-07-19 17:46:51 +0000 UTC45% is higher than 6% just sayin
Otacon_Ocelot
2023-07-19 17:00:55 +0000 UTCGamers don't finish their games. That isn't unique to people who play on Xbox. Look at the percentage of trophy unlocks completing The Last of Us Remastered on PS4 on normal difficulty. It's 45%. Over half of people who played a heavy story intensive game bailed on it before getting to a resolution.
Zach
2023-07-19 16:58:47 +0000 UTCYes I do
Jack Sibert
2023-07-19 16:54:39 +0000 UTCWould love Sony to go snag Ubisoft but it won’t happen
Matthew Jones
2023-07-19 16:41:42 +0000 UTClmao I love the INSTANTANEOUS pushback against Colin bashing Prototype hahaha
Guns vs Kittens
2023-07-19 16:28:47 +0000 UTCI could be wrong, but I think this is more of a horizontal merger then a vertical one. XBOX produces/publishes games. Activision/Blizzard produces/publishes games. A vertical one would be if Microsoft bought AMD or NVIDIA and started controlling the chip making process going into the consoles.
Zach
2023-07-19 16:11:00 +0000 UTCChris never misses when it’s duke x sacred. Every Time I’m just like “yes Chris!!” Preach. Haha great episode guys as always
Johnny Lamotte
2023-07-19 15:56:50 +0000 UTCXbox stopped showing numbers of all their sales at the end of the 360 gen (the last good one) ever since then sales have slumped even more. Hell listen to this episode, Xbox gamers don't even finish their game not even counting gamepass games.
Otacon_Ocelot
2023-07-19 15:38:02 +0000 UTCI don't have a dog in this fight. Couldn't care less, but to assume the only reason Gamepass exists is, because people don't buy Xbox games is WILD. One of the reasons? Sure, maybe. The ONLY reason? Nah, man.
Zach
2023-07-19 15:35:23 +0000 UTCI agree with Cogs argument here. We would be lucky if xbox was able to catapult to #1 spot bc of ABK purchase/ game pass. Sony at #1 is boring and getting DRY. If Sony gets dethroned, we know how they'll respond; They'll get scrappy and they'll do their damndest to take back the spot!
Drewbuntu
2023-07-19 15:34:07 +0000 UTCI understand you guys did this because it's topical but man we don't get these episodes often and kinda bummed it's more of "gestures wildly" THIS.
Michael Welter
2023-07-19 14:57:57 +0000 UTCWhat are you talking about? He literally said Xbox is in third place in the episode. And I'm mostly an Xbox gamer and buy the majority of my games. Resident Evil 4, Jedi Survivor, Destiny 2 Lightfall just to name a few this year. Am I gonna buy Starfield outright? No because even Colin says you'd be fucking stupid not to take advantage of GamePass.
Michael Welter
2023-07-19 14:56:22 +0000 UTCThis guy talking to me ab immaturity with that ridiculous profile pic 😂 take a lap
Alex
2023-07-19 14:07:35 +0000 UTCThinking in these terms just shows the immaturity of your mindset.
The Rose Experience
2023-07-19 13:59:28 +0000 UTCYou can find one offs here and there but in the modern Xbox landscape with mass Gamespass adoption, games simply don’t sell well at all comparatively and that’s just a fact.
The Rose Experience
2023-07-19 13:58:15 +0000 UTCIf they don't and didn't buy games then why would literally any publisher put games on it? Titanfall 1 sold more as an exclusive then 2 did when it was released everywhere. Forza Horizon 5 sold over a million copys before it even launched and that game was in gamepass. People are just buying consoles and waiting for somebody to give them a game? Lol
bix hutch
2023-07-19 13:50:39 +0000 UTC"There's good deal for this price "and that's why nowadays nobody takes any pride in craft and everything is cheaply made but "good enough value for the price " in china . anyway love you ,cog :D.
Daniel Urban
2023-07-19 13:41:37 +0000 UTCXbox guys like cog won't admit that Xbox has been very last place for decade +. The ONLY REASON gamepass is a thing is because Xbox gamers didn't and don't buy fucking games. They bought the rights to Halo and Gears, they didn't create their big games either.
Otacon_Ocelot
2023-07-19 12:23:52 +0000 UTCAs Count Dooku once said, "I've been looking forward to this"
Mr someone
2023-07-19 08:43:33 +0000 UTCThis is it... the season finale we've been waiting for!
Kasual7
2023-07-19 06:29:37 +0000 UTCSame
Cloyd Brown
2023-07-19 06:09:43 +0000 UTCDo you believe an equivalent vertical merger would’ve been approved 80 years ago? Just curious
RoughSlpr
2023-07-19 05:00:10 +0000 UTCAlso I LOVE the format you went with for questions and responses. Gave us the fucking awesome Colin content and ability to respond to multiple people and still everyone got all the thoughts out. Fucking excellent episode would really want more of these.
A Hind D
2023-07-19 04:59:23 +0000 UTCI work overnights, thank you LSM 💙
James Pies
2023-07-19 04:34:41 +0000 UTC"Well you've gotta start somewhere". Thats the most asinine argument for initiating litigation in ANY case , whether it be a civil, criminal, commercial context. Where you should actually start is with cases that have foundation. MS purchasing ABK was never, ever an exemplar for monopolistic practices. If they were purchasing another console manufacturer or major cloud service provider, then maybe there would be substance. Activision is among many, many other major video game publishers. Hence, NOT a monopoly. Furthermore, comparing historic FTC lawsuits and allotments is also a bit asinine. Each administration has its own proclivities and characteristics. This current FTC can't really be compared to historic FTCs and there lack of or abundance of suits.
Jack Sibert
2023-07-19 04:33:55 +0000 UTCI'll save this banger for tomorrow 👍
mattyboy316
2023-07-19 03:43:48 +0000 UTCOkay whatever you say 😂😂👍👍
mattyboy316
2023-07-19 03:43:14 +0000 UTCXbox W, PlayStation L - expect to see that a lot moving forward
Alex
2023-07-19 03:24:29 +0000 UTCWoah, 2 early episodes!
StewDog
2023-07-19 03:21:29 +0000 UTCperfect for the pillow talk. -Dustin
Dustin Furman
2023-07-19 03:20:55 +0000 UTCYou naughty naughty you releasing an episode late at night you teasing me boy.
Asique Alam
2023-07-19 03:19:18 +0000 UTCOhhh I have been looking forward to this! Going to be a great way to end the evening. Thanks for the extra early upload!
PsychCoffee
2023-07-19 03:15:19 +0000 UTCLet’s go!!! All the GOATS
A Hind D
2023-07-19 03:14:40 +0000 UTC
