Dr. Who Series 3 - Utopia
Added 2022-05-28 14:00:05 +0000 UTCAgain, WOW ...I thought that this show couldn´t get any better, after the "Blink" episode, but it raised the stakes again. Here is the first part of a tense finale, that will hopefully end in a good way for our heroes :)
Comments
Ah, sorry. Hope I wasn't rude to your moderator! Doctor Who and Torchwood aired in different seasons basically. You had Torchwood series 1, Doctor Who series 3, Torchwood series 2, Doctor Who series 4, and so on. The scene is very frantic so I don't blame you for missing it. The Doctor does come across quite mean and deranged to Martha in the end of this episode, but I think it's because he's really frightened. I have watched this series especially many times, so I find it easy to be objective, knowing what's coming. The Doctor was definitely not treating her right. She's an awesome companion so it makes sense to be protective :)
Matt Lives
2022-06-05 14:24:42 +0000 UTCThank you for your tipp about the watchorder. I didn´t know anything about it. But it´s not my mods fault. He told me from the very start that he had never seen Torchwood, and that he can´t help me with that one. I should have asked my Patreon people I guess. Well, but now that I do know, I will try and adjust my watchorder :) Oh thank you for the explanation why the doctor was afraid when Martha told him about the watch. I didn´t connect the whole story. But now it makes sense, thank you :) You do have a very objective view on the doctor treating Martha bad in this scene. I guess I´m a little more emotional in my judgement. But I understand your viewpoint and you are right. It´s just the fact that this wasn´t the first time he treated Martha that way. ANd I guess I´m very protective over her :D Oh that´s what you told me on Discord before. Thank you for the tipp again :)
Nicologik
2022-06-05 09:07:46 +0000 UTCYes, there's absolutely a watch order. I'm surprised your moderator didn't tell you, I would have thought they would have seen Torchwood and/or The Sarah Jane Adventures. You're supposed to watch Torchwood series 1 in its entirety before this episode, and everything hence makes sense. This episode happens almost immediately after the end of the last episode of Torchwood series 1. Usually you're supposed to watch a series of Torchwood before the finale story of the series of Doctor Who. They don't always crossover like this, but they take place in the same universe so changes to the world in Doctor Who will affect Torchwood, for example. The Doctor is frightened when Martha tells him about the watch. The Doctor thought all of the time lords were dead (by his own hand, as we find out in Dalek in series 1), so even if the time lord that came back wasn't bad like the Master, they would probably want to hurt the Doctor. Yes, he's treating Martha quite badly there, but of course he wasn't going to act rationally at that point. I think it's not fair to expect the Doctor to be calm and to immediately run to Chan Tho and Professor Yana. He'd basically just found out that one of his own kind was still alive, and he probably had the feeling that it was a bad one like the Master. Both Derek Jacobi (Yana/the Master) and John Simm (The Master) are fantastic actors. John Simm is probably most famous here in the UK for his role as 'Sam Tyler' in the TV show 'Life on Mars'. That's another great show (as is its sequel, Ashes to Ashes).
Matt Lives
2022-06-03 13:53:48 +0000 UTCOhhh thank you for giving me some kind of timeline for Torchwood. I guess I´m gonna go and watch some more Torchwood episode, and try to watch all of season one, before going into series 4 of Doctor Who. And maybe watch 2 episodes of Torchwood and one of Doctor Who series 4. That way I´ll finish Torwood season 2 earlier than Dr. Who series 4. :) Thanks for letting me know :) That jokershot was great. i don´t know, if I put too much thought into it, but I really enjoyed watching David in that scene. :) And yes, Martha is not treated good by the doctor. I don´t really know what the reason for that is, but I don´t like it. :/
Nicologik
2022-05-31 16:53:08 +0000 UTCIt´s alright. :) Don´t worry. I understand that the Who universe is very complicated and not everything will go smooth all the time. :) Wow back on the school reunion episde? Wow, that was soooo long ago.... Thanks for saving me from that spoiler :)
Nicologik
2022-05-31 16:45:54 +0000 UTCHaha yes there really is a lot to cover. it was a very interesting episode :D Yes I really liked mister Jacobi, as an actor. He was so cute, until he turned evil of course :D But thank you for the info about him, and I love that he and David played Hamlet together. :) Ohhhh I knew that I had seen this face before. i mean John´s. Thank you for telling me he played in the Hobbit, too. I couldn´t think of a movie I had seen him in before, but I knew that I know him :D Hahaha the arm thing :D :D This will not be the only time, I will have my problems with this arm. :D I was trying to be smart, but failed miserably :D :D Hmm, I might have read to much into the scene. That´s so funny with the reactions. Sometimes you do react too much, and sometimes you do not react strong enough. :D But you may be right with the Jack-scene.
Nicologik
2022-05-31 16:43:58 +0000 UTCOh, is it? Am I supposed to watch more or less Torchwood to keep up? Oh I love Moriarty, and I really got those vibes from the master. Thanks for saying that, because I was trying to think about the character that he was reminding me of, but I didn´t really succeed, and it bugged me a little. But now I know :D I really liked the actor, But I didn´t know he is famous in the UK. :)
Nicologik
2022-05-31 16:34:33 +0000 UTCps I wonder if the "joker" shots of David Tennant weren't just thought of during the filming because the red lighting produced such a sinister effect and the director couldn't resist using it. It may never have been intended in the script. Just a thought. I have no more insight about it than anyone else. I have always taken the thoughtless shouting at Martha as a sign of his desperate attempts not to allow himself to hope he isn't the last Time Lord. He does treat her badly though although she comes through for him again and again.
Stephen Males
2022-05-29 13:47:35 +0000 UTCYeah, your Torchwood viewing is a little out of sync - but it doesn't matter too much. The return of The Master (a venerable Classic Who villain) was a huge moment for old-school fans. The character was created, way back, to be a 'Professor Moriarty' figure; and went through several transformations in the Classic series. His re-introduction here,although undeniably effective, could perhaps have been handled better for new viewers,who would mostly have been thinking "who the hell is the Master..?!" Nonetheless,Derek Jacobi (one of Britain's greatest actors) gives a wonderful performance. I only wish his version had stuck around longer :( As a point of trivia - when he opens his fob watch we briefly hear two previous versions of The Master on the soundtrack.
Ian Smith
2022-05-28 23:16:59 +0000 UTCWow. A lot to cover. Sir Derek Jacobi (Professor Yana) is a famous and award winning British actor. He has starred on stage with the Royal Shakespeare Company and has been in big movies and TV shows. One of my favourites is the BBC "I, Claudius" from 1976. [I'm hoping someone will react to that someday.] Both Jacobi and David Tennant have played Hamlet - I have the videos. But what a performance here - going from lovable Professor to evil Master and you believe both. Jacobi said "One of my ambitions since the '60s has been to take part in a Doctor Who." John Bell (Creet, the small boy working in the Silo) was the winner of a competition to appear in a Doctor Who episode. He later went on to be in Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" films. Although Chantho had been working with Professor Yana for years, she wasn't a companion who knew what the watch was. Nicologik Reacts (talking about the hand in a Torchwood episode): "Is that something that reminds him of the torturing he did back then?" Andrew (to himself): "Um, no, no. That's not it. No." Jack said he used it as a Doctor detector, and he needed a Doctor detector to find the Doctor again. That was why he was so concerned about it in "Day One". I see the Doctor as almost afraid of Jack as a "fixed point in time and space". He hugs Jack and chats to him but he is very concerned that he exists as a "fixed point" and what it means for the universe. I think the "Joker" screen-shot is when the Doctor is smiling as Jack talks about the humans still surviving in this remote outpost. You may be reading too much into that shot. And in that last 15 minutes everything is happening at once. The Doctor needs to get the rocket launched quickly but Martha learns about the watch as rushes down to tell him. I see panic as to what it could mean and frustration with the lack of time when the Doctor yells at Martha, desperate to know what Yana had said - what Time Lord is it? I also rate the episode higher than IMDB.
Andrew Vignaux
2022-05-28 22:28:18 +0000 UTCIn hindsight it was a mistake for me to ask you to let me know when you'd seen Episode 10. But I think when I originally asked you to let me know, you hadn't seen the first episode of "Torchwood" yet, and I didn't know what you might then watch (and in what order). Of course once you *had* watched Episode 10 it was impossible for me to say anything, because that would've made it obvious that Captain Jack was going to appear in Episode 11. The first comment I had to remove that mentioned the existence of the Master was all the way back on your "School Reunion" episode!
Andrew Gwilliam
2022-05-28 21:49:50 +0000 UTCThis episode of Doctor Who was first broadcast in June 2007. The first series of Torchwood was shown from October 2006 to January 2007. So we would have watched all of it before this episode of Who was broadcast. Series 2 of Torchwood was from Jan to April 2008 and the next series of Who was from April to July 2008 so again you could watch the whole of Torchwood S2 before Who S4. I don't think you absolutely have to but there is a Torchwood spoiler in something that is said in the Who S4 finale so you might want to save those two episodes until you have finished TorchW S2. I hope that makes sense. Probably best to consult your mods as my memory isn't perfect.
Stephen Males
2022-05-28 17:07:23 +0000 UTC
