Invincible Episode 3x2
Added 2025-02-07 14:20:47 +0000 UTCweewooo
Comments
Ali. You are just in the wrong here. Sorry, not sorry.
Rogal Dorn
2025-11-06 09:54:20 +0000 UTCThis bugs me a lot more, than it should, because I'm fully on Cecils side. Does Mark think, every prisoner just sits on their ass and waits out their sentence? That Prison time is some form of punishment? Every activity they do is meant as an exercise to rehabilitate, which just means translated to be able to fit in society again, thus LEAVING prison eventually. These super prisoners got super attention and got EXTREMELY rehabilitated, so you can't be mad, when it works. And it's not even Marks place to decides who can save lives and who doesn't. Cecil only sent them in, because Mark can't always save everyone everywhere, obviously, but which innocent people need to die because Cecil shouldn't be allowed to use every help he can get, no matter whose? What if some of the other superheroes died if he hadn't sent them? I understand refusing help from people you don't like, Mark is well within his rights to not collaborate with them, but he can't stop them from helping those who actually need it.
Rueduciel
2025-08-04 19:03:07 +0000 UTCMark made the first strike. Yes, Mark was emotional and how Cecil was using Singlair didn't sit right with Mark's morals but Mark broke into the pentagon to confront Cecil in a threatening manner, similar to how Omni-man acted. Cecil is not super human so of course he would feel threatening. We know Mark's character and that he's still a teen mentally but Cecil also thought he knew Omni-man before the disaster. Yes, Cecil when too far afterwards but Mark started the confrontation and after what Nolan did and with Cecil's character, there's no rational way Cecil would have tried to simply talk it out after Mark destroyed the corpse bots. He tried that with Omni-man and almost died for it. Once bitten...
Rokkettdog
2025-05-19 19:20:11 +0000 UTCYeah, Cecil really screwed the pooch here. It's fine having contingency plans, but this was never a scenario that would have called for him to actually use it here. He has a bit of a point of Mark being arrogant and a hypocrite but Cecil is worse than Mark at both.
Brantley Fleming
2025-03-22 07:37:47 +0000 UTCSanity is subjective. That's the point that Mark fails to see. There is no right and wrong viewpoint, only subjective values. You can't blame Cecil for the fact that Mark is easily manipulated into violence. With the kind of power Mark possessed, his mind must be just as solid. If it is not, he IS a threat.
xxDrain
2025-03-17 16:32:27 +0000 UTCAgreed. As I said, understandably bad tactical decision, but great writing.
Bologna Amputation
2025-02-10 16:59:53 +0000 UTCTrue, if he simply told him about Sinclair earlier, he would not have flipped out like this, but then again he doesn't know that. We as viewers do because we see a lot more of Mark than Cecil does.
David Bodor
2025-02-10 16:11:12 +0000 UTCOh, no, I agree, Cecil was very much right to be afraid of Mark, I just mean that he could have avoided that whole thing by preemptively ingratiating Mark to him and his plans earlier than the dead-last-minute!
Bologna Amputation
2025-02-10 16:06:56 +0000 UTC@Bologna I get that Mark's a kid, but he's also the strongest person on Earth. Cecil was rightfully scared of him. He says as much and Mark just does not understand why a regular guy like Cecil would be scared of someone with the same powerset as Omni-man, the guy that slaughtered thousands including the strongest superhero team on Earth.
David Bodor
2025-02-10 06:44:05 +0000 UTCWell, scale does matter. The number of people you kill is relevant to your sentence. We'd have different sentences for a guy that killed someone on accident and a literal mass murderer terrorist that killed thousands. That said, if Omni-man could be contained, he should get the same treatement, but the thing is, can he be contained? Humanity doesn't have a prison that can hold Omni-man. Cecil can easily guarantee Darkwing and Sinclair won't escape. Especially Sinclair, who has no powers and is in all likelihood locked inside a GDA lab.
David Bodor
2025-02-10 06:42:54 +0000 UTCi get cecils point but at the same time, were dealing with super powered people here not normal average people, we both know cecil wouldnt give omni man the chance for rehabilitation at all, so he should keep that same standard with the scientists guy aswell as darkwin 2 both who murdererd innocent people just like omni man maybe not on as big of a scale like a city, but the scientist guy was litterally targeting Freshman College kids and willian was the only one to come out and servive it there was a bunhc of wanted posters on that board in season 1. as for darkwing 2 his entire motive for killing people was just wrong, his favorite super hero dies and his immediate response is to go on a murder spree thats not somthing someone of a sane mind does
taco-man
2025-02-10 05:50:28 +0000 UTCMark's a kid, and Cecil knows he's emotional and opinionated. He really should have told Mark on his own terms, not immediately after life-or-death event.
Bologna Amputation
2025-02-10 01:02:04 +0000 UTCThat's why I said it should have come before, David. Mark finding out about this should have been from Cecil's own lips before shit hit the fan.
Bologna Amputation
2025-02-10 01:00:19 +0000 UTCOn a side-note the way he commands Rudy to get the transmitter out of his head after the fight is freaking scary, it feels like he's slipping. He's not asking, he's not saying please, he's like bitch get it out, that's an order, and Mark's not the ordering around type of guy usually. He's legit losing it in that entire chain of events. He got so pissed at seeing the reanimen, it did not feel like he had any self control through the entire segment. I get Cecil can be abrasive, but he was calm the entire time, he asked multiple time to just sit down and talk, Mark wasn't even willing to hear him out.
David Bodor
2025-02-09 03:54:30 +0000 UTCI agree but letting them basically get what they want without punishment is also bad. Not going to argue about dark wing cause I agree about him, but Sinclair can't just get to keep doing his thing without proper punishment.
Speed1247
2025-02-09 02:50:05 +0000 UTCYeah to me using Darkwing is no different than letting prisoners be firefighters during wildfires. There's an emergency, you need people to help, prisoners ARE people. Same for Sinclair really, there's an impending viltrumite invasion, why the F would you lock up a scientist who can produce weapons to fight off an alien invasion? It's not like he's free to go about on the streets, he's still in a secure facility? Why the F does Mark care if Sinclair is in a tiny prison cell or locked in a lab? Prison is not meant to be punishment, it's meant to be for the safety of the public first and for rehabilitation second. Prisoners don't have to suffer, that's not the point and should never be the point of prison. I can't really get behind Mark on this one. He's coming from an emotional place given it's his friend who was attacked, and he cannot see clearly because of it.
David Bodor
2025-02-09 02:42:31 +0000 UTCPunishment for the sake of punishment is imo just morally wrong. Locking people up should be for the safety of the public, not because you want people to suffer. As much as Sinclair is a piece of crap, as long as he's under surveillance and cannot just escape, he should be allowed to continue his work to help defend Earth against a future viltrumite assault. Same goes for Darkwing tbh, he should be allowed the chance to make up for what he did, as long as he isn't allowed to escape, it's not a bad thing for him to join in for emergencies. Mark is just flat out in the wrong on this one.
David Bodor
2025-02-09 02:37:10 +0000 UTCMark wasn't giving him a calm sitdown though. He barged in fists first.
David Bodor
2025-02-09 02:34:24 +0000 UTCAre we supposed to take Invincible's side in the Cecil fight? Cuz I believe in rehabilitative justice, I don't think bad guys should stay behind bars just to suffer as punishment. Sinclair is a piece of crap and he should definitely be under supervision in a secure facility, but so what if he has a job? That's a good thing. As long as he can't escape, who cares if he continues to work? As for Darkwing, it's a bit more questionable, but hey, if he wants to help he might as well be allowed on missions, so long as he is watched and can't just run off, he might as well do something useful for the world to try and make up for his past crimes. I kinda liken it to prisoners helping firefighters when wildfires strike. In an emergency you need people to help and if some people want to help to make up for their past misdeeds then why not let them? I dunno, it IS messed up that Cecil put a transmitter inside Mark (though not unexpected), but I don't think Invincible was in the right at all, I get him being mad about the reanimen & Darkwing, but he can't just bust into a secure building and threaten people to get his way, that's supervillain behavior. If he doesn't like it, he can calmly tell Cecil he quits.
David Bodor
2025-02-09 02:32:31 +0000 UTCFun fact, Bulletproof and his costume were the originally planned superhero name and costume for Mark. (so the comic likely would have been called 'Bulletproof' instead of 'Invincible')
wiski
2025-02-09 00:50:39 +0000 UTCI really feel like Mark doesn't realize the effect he has on people when he confronts them angrily. There's a reason Superman never EVER gets angry at regular, non-powered people. Mark is a walking nuke. He is stronger than all other weapons on earth combined. He could kill Cecil in a second. If he loses his cool for just a milisecond. Slaps Cecil too hard, even shouts too loudly, Cecil could be dead in an isntant. So yeah, Cecil kept escalating. But imo he reacted that way because he was absolutely TERRIFIED.
Tim The Grim
2025-02-09 00:37:38 +0000 UTChmmm that's an incredible amount of "donated corpses" right here Cecil
Matthias
2025-02-08 22:06:51 +0000 UTCYes After being with him for 20 years mate, he built that trust with him while trying to figure what he was really here for. But Cecil is still a human he still ages and gets old, he messed up in trusting someome hes known for so long and he admitts to it and is trying to do better. He knows how Mark is and he also knows Mark met up with his dad agian if Mark were to go full Nolan he wpuld have to be ready for it.
Az256
2025-02-08 21:59:03 +0000 UTCexcept we see in cecil past that he knew nolan was lying about protecting the poeple so cecil gave is trust to someone who was lying, he messed up.
Matthias
2025-02-08 21:50:27 +0000 UTCThe "previously on" thing feels like something you like or dislike depending on preference. The fact that every previously on telegraphs what to expect to see is honestly fun to me.
Aubrey Bryn
2025-02-08 08:14:54 +0000 UTCMark because he kept threatening Cecil, and Cecil because he kept heightening his defensive measures pre-emptively.
Ellerian
2025-02-08 06:42:07 +0000 UTCThe thing is both Mark and Cecil were escalating the situation, it wasn't just Cecil
Pell D. indestructible
2025-02-08 05:28:21 +0000 UTCI've watched all 3 episodes and I just realized that darkwing looks possessed
UndeadNovaKing 0
2025-02-08 05:14:53 +0000 UTCThe whole trust is the wrong angle you forget that he trusted Nolan and he killed so many people. The reason Cecil acted the way he did is exactly how he said, he is afraid. If Mark were to go rouge they all would be fucked so he trusts him but not fully if anything were to happen to mark to change his mind Cecil would be defenseless with 'trust'. Last season showed us how almost every variation of Mark joined Nolan hes pretty right to be afraid.
Az256
2025-02-08 00:34:11 +0000 UTCI don't think Mark is ready to forgive Nolan yet, He's incredibly conflicted on it. He only fought with him on Thraxa out of necessity, and hasn't talked to him since. He's nicer about him with Oliver, but then, bad mouthing him to Oliver might be a bad idea with how young he is.
NexFalx19
2025-02-07 23:06:57 +0000 UTCThe Doc wasn't part of the program. He just broke out of prison.
rando
2025-02-07 22:23:24 +0000 UTCRehabilitation is right but also there needs to be consequences for people's actions and some people are beyond redemption. I do love the part where Cecil is shouting at Mark and saying all those things cause half of them seem to be digs at himself he is projecting his personal feelings onto Mark there even if he can't accept them himself.
Speed1247
2025-02-07 22:18:48 +0000 UTCI think Cecil is 100% and Mark is being an emotional hypocrite, seeing how he expect people to forgive Nolan. But Cecil totally fucked up his handling of the situation here.
rando
2025-02-07 21:37:04 +0000 UTCMark broke into the pentagon, Started screaming at him, followed him when he left the room, and threw the first punch. Yeah, Cecil could have defused the situation better, but he was all defensive moves until Mark attacked.
Duo Blackrose
2025-02-07 21:19:00 +0000 UTCCecil was pretty justified in this episode. The same way Superman gives Batman kryptonite just incase. Cecil has to have some way to defend himself against superheroes because we have seen what happens when he didn’t.
Noahthehoneyboy
2025-02-07 20:41:44 +0000 UTCThat is how the world works all the time. Giving people the benefit of the doubt is great, but that's not really an option when you wont get a second chance if your wrong.
Rinnzu Rosendale
2025-02-07 20:34:16 +0000 UTCIt’s also not how the world works. Cecil has gotten to used to doing evil things for good reasons. Sometimes it’s unavoidable but for him it’s now his go to. No matter how much he or anyone else tries to claim mark is a threat mark has never done anything to deserve the treatment Cecil puts him through. He constantly uses his dad to try and manipulate him, he claims he’s a danger whenever he thinks for himself even though the only times mark has disobeyed orders it was because he wanted to save people and Cecil was telling him not to save them. And he put essentially a bomb in his head not because mark had actually done anything but simply so he would be able to control mark. Cecil does evil things not only when he has no choice but also just whenever it suits his desires. He’s passed the point where what he does is in any way justifiable. And his comfort with doing evil lead to him losing almost all of his greatest assets in the fight to protect earth. Because he is so comfortable using evil his actions have now left the earth much less safe then if he’d just treated mark and his other people right
Mortis
2025-02-07 20:26:45 +0000 UTCThey are not slaves, just soldiers. He does what he needs to do and knows people will have personal feelings about it, so its better they dont know cause then they will just get in the way and put people in danger. Cecil has a job to do. Personal feelings and relationship things like trust are luxuries he cannot afford. Its understandable that people will think like Mark, dont get me wrong. But its a short sighted and selfish viewpoint. Putting personal feelings before the lives of billions is kinda a sad hill to die on.
Rinnzu Rosendale
2025-02-07 20:12:23 +0000 UTCCecil wasn't wrong about the idea of reformation, but my god did he blow it tactically. He knows enough about Mark to know that he's an idealist, he could have sat Mark down, let him in on the thoughts and reasoning behind the rehabilitation in a non-tense situation. With some conversation, he could have not only had his rehabbed criminals, but could have had Mark not only on-board, but advocating for it. In the end, Cecil's inability to trust and unwillingness to put words to an obvious power imbalance cost him that. A bad decision, but great writing.
Bologna Amputation
2025-02-07 19:55:06 +0000 UTC@Rinnzu Rosendale Having power and making a threat are not the same thing no matter how much the fear and desire for control of people like Cecil says it is. Cecil lost his strongest assets because he had to have slave master control over the people he needs.
Mortis
2025-02-07 19:54:27 +0000 UTCThat is what that means. Mark needs to learn that he doesn't have the luxury of being a normal person. he is perpetually brandishing a weapon so when he gets mad and approaches people in anger, it is understandably taken as a threat.
Rinnzu Rosendale
2025-02-07 19:42:51 +0000 UTCI fully agree with your points, with one teensy caveat; to say the heroes have no precautions or fallbacks against Cecil doesn't feel quite right, cuz that's basically what their powers are. If you put him in a room with any of them, they'd be able to kill him pretty easy; "the fact that you can crush my skull, rip me in half, or blow me up IS your fallback, something I don't have, so I gotta come up with something to even the field." Cecil's basically like Batman; he knows he doesn't have the physical power to throw around that any of his peers do and he knows if his "allies" decided to flip one day he wouldn't be able to stop them, so he's gotta compensate with all the precautionary stuff. Still, I also see how it would piss you off to find out your boss/coworker had been working out secret ways to bitch you out... >.>
Jacob Harmon
2025-02-07 19:41:08 +0000 UTCNo Cecil escalated. Mark was not threatening Cecil. Just because he’s stronger doesn’t mean his every action is automatically a threat. Cecil started the violence by sticking the reanimen on him
Mortis
2025-02-07 19:38:02 +0000 UTCHe absolutely did escalate, and he blew his Trump card against Mark and lost it over a minor disagreement that went south. He just lost his greatest asset doing that.
NexFalx19
2025-02-07 19:34:18 +0000 UTCSo far with season 3 I’m glad we get more insight into Cecil with how and why he does the things he does. Does that make him less of a shitter? Nah but it makes his writing really good
AyatoMisubi
2025-02-07 19:16:29 +0000 UTCI love the interaction between Mark and Rick in this episode. Mark is wondering if he should have just killed the guy to end it, and the person MOST AFFECTED by what this person had done tells him "The world doesn't need more people like that, it needs more people like you." Fucking beautiful man
Cyric Sherburne
2025-02-07 18:58:17 +0000 UTCCecil didn't escalate anything. He leveled the playing field with the very few tools he had to do so. You cant negotiate from a position of weakness. Cecil doesn't manipulate people to get what he wants. He is genuine with people all the time even at detriment to his reputation and feelings.. He manipulates people to get what he Needs to do his job. Having a "trust system" is great for relationships. But when that trust system is gambling the lives of the entire planet then not having countermeasures is just irresponsible. He had a "Trust System" with Omni Man. They dod have precautions against Cecil. That's why they wont let him near Oliver. Cecil doesnt just make sense. He is objectively in the right. The entire point of the conflict is that Mark is only seeing it from the perspective of personal relationships and trust. Cecil is seeing it from the perspective of a world of normal people and individuals who could level it by accident. Which is the reality.
Rinnzu Rosendale
2025-02-07 17:58:01 +0000 UTC50:15 That squeal was cute.
Xenocrona
2025-02-07 17:25:48 +0000 UTC"When it suits him or his wants" is when it is literally saving millions of lives and Cecil knows that. Trying to be pragmatic to the point of not being able to work with less emotional people can loop right back around to hurting your interests as it does here with Cecil losing his most valuable asset and half the guardians. Heck I'd argue the actually pragmatic one is Rudy, who despite not entirely agreeing with Invincible's reasons, goes along with him anyways because he knows that he can get him in his pocket this way. Cecil is too fearful and controlling to truly be "pragmatic".
Joel Sasmad
2025-02-07 16:47:39 +0000 UTCI mean Mark already did break that trust back in S2 when he fucked off to an alien planet for months on end. Mark has shown in the past he is willing to break agreements when it suits him or his wants, no one else can have that luxury with him due to the gap in strength between him and everyone else. Mark has a history of doing things his way and creating needless risks on principle, something that can cost more lives, and to someone like Cecil, a pragmatist at heart, that makes him unreliable at best, and dangerous at worst.
Riku1186
2025-02-07 16:38:36 +0000 UTCI am on Cecil's side in regards to reforming and using criminals for good, and I think Mark was only reacting so strongly becusse he was involved personally. The way he handled things with Mark here though is horrible and lost him not only his greatest asset, but half of the Guardians. Ignoring the fact that Cecil could have talked things out or teleported away when Mark was refusing to leave instead of using the reanimen, ingnoring the fact that Mark has never given him a reason to treat him like this, ignoring how messed up the chip in Mark's brain is, when Mark was trying to leave Cecil here chases him down and makes things worse. And honestly this is good writing. Cecil handled the situation badly but Mark threw the first punch and we can argue back and forth over who was right or wrong in regards to the overall situation. The fact that both are right and wrong in their own ways is the whole point.
Joel Sasmad
2025-02-07 16:29:29 +0000 UTCMark threw a tantrum, but Cecil has known Mark for years at this point, he knows that Mark is a hotheaded kid, but would never purposely hurt anyone and I was even broken up over accidentally killing vile villains like the maulers and Angstrom. Cecil knows that Mark would never purposely hurt him here. He could have just talked him down or teleported away while Mark cooled his head. Instead he made things worse with the reanimen then chased Mark down when Mark was leaving him alone to torture the kid in front of the Guardians. Making him lose not only his most valuable asset, but also half the Guardian.
Joel Sasmad
2025-02-07 16:28:49 +0000 UTCSorry but I have to fully disagree Mark was in the wrong, I'm on Cecil's side his motivation is what I understand more. I understand wanting to control as much as possible as it makes the world less scarry, I do the same thing.
Icy
2025-02-07 16:05:03 +0000 UTCTo play devil's advocate trust between Cecil and Mark never felt possible. Cause lets imagine they had a more trusting relationship and Mark broke that trust, then Cecil gets screwed cause what's he gonna do. If Cecil breaks that trust then the events of this episode plays. So either way Cecil loses, why not choose the scenario where you might have a chance. Basically trust between those who are not equal is favorable to the one who is superior cause they have less to lose.
CDMellow
2025-02-07 14:54:37 +0000 UTC
