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Straw Hat Episode 438+439

YAAAAAAAAAAS

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Yea it icky but when you really think about that scenario: dude was trying to kill Ivan so in most situations that dude would have just been killed back in self defense so there's really no rules for the wicked. My problem actually lies in the writing for the situation itself. Where did that guy even come from? Was he just there bidding his time for who knows how long and conveniently decided to attack now? That whole scene could have been written better and have portrayed Ivan in better light as well..

Rokkettdog

I 100% agree, the forced transition scene made me feel really icky for the first time in one piece. Thankfully it's been the only time, consent is important!

Jorden Powell

Cool so they are out of prison now and he is stuck in there how does he get changed back by the only person in the world who can. Or better question let's take a giant leap in logic and say he got out, how does he find Ivankov. Ivankov is a revolutionary and their locations are obviously hidden so how does he find him to ask. Also Ivankov is plenty petty just in this arc alone he was willing to do nothing to help Luffy until he heard who his dad was, which sounds like treating someone differently based on lineage A.K.A why the Celestial Dragons can do whatever they want. He's also judgemental, forces things on people and doesn't listen to others points of view telling them they're wrong whether they are or aren't.

Gamer Kane

A. Ivonkaov isn't petty and probably would turn him back. B. That isn't the same becuase this is as easily reversable as changing clothes for Ivonkov. Also it was likely done for the guy to expirience what being unhappy with your own body/gender is like for people like his father.

Joel Sasmad

He didn't change the father into a woman, otherwise the son would be complaining about him coming home as a woman, not as a "queer". It is shocking and uncomfortable at first but I do think the purpose is to show that Ivonkav genuinely doesn't think of gender the same way since he can change it back an forth so easily. For him while this might be crossing certain lines(I do NOT agree with the take that forced gender reassignment is better than death) it is easily reversible and does come off as the perfect punishment for the assassin: to expirience for a time being unhappy with your own body/gender the same way his father once did.

Joel Sasmad

A. Would Ivankov turn him back because he seems pretty convinced he's right and no one should question him. B. If someone tries to kill me do I then have the right to knock them out and start mutilating their body until they wake up then leave them in whatever state they're in. No I do not because one horrific action does not condone another.

Gamer Kane

Thing is first, context. The victim here was someone who came to assassinate Ivan. Why should he respect the guy or his rights? Second, this is a magic transformation that is easily reversable. If the guy comes back and apologises for what he did Ivan can just turn him back. Lastly we immediately see in the episode how there is so much more to Ivankov the miracle worker. Boiling him down to "gay conversion man" misses so much.

Joel Sasmad

It pretty much is the design of Dr. Frankenfurter....

FlaschenJoe11

Weird comment, just say you like Iva. Why start with "I don't like gay people"

Peach

It's okay...Newkama Land is just like Sniper Island. It's in our heart!!! And we can find it together. Newkama no shima de~~~

jahschwa

this comment is weird asf. Read how contradictory your words are LOL

Atlas Creation

The most average twitter response lmao, 'don't have an actual logical counter-argument, so just throw imagined insults in hope it sticks', have a good one.

Lewd Angel

You have completely missed the point, laughably so. But nice that you are willing to admit your transphobic, at least now everyone knows for sure.

Okoga

happy pri-demon-th

Yagi di Hoshi

also HAPPY PRI DEMON TH

Yagi di Hoshi

Someone must've eaten the gum gum fruit with all this stretching you're doin to reach these points lmao. Hate to tell you this, but being injured by devil fruit powers or otherwise does not, in fact, take bodily autonomy away. Forcibly changing someone physically and mentally though (which btw, with the newest binge we got has now happened TWICE and the second time is even more creepy and messed up) 100% does. Not to mention i never said certain other DF powers weren't equally or more messed up, however with Iva now leaving the prison, theres is 0% chance of them being turned back if they decided to ask. If choosing to die over having your life and mentality very likely forever changed in that way makes one 'transphobic', then i am THE most transphobic mf out there lol. So yea, i think my hypocrisy statement is very much validated by these responses, yall have such an obvious bias and it shows, because when a character we like does something questionable during an IRL time that is very related to his character aspects, then yall are more than willing to ignore those questionable things.

Lewd Angel

@Lewd Angel Becoming another gender is worse than being killed, have not had to hear that kind of transphobia for a good long while. I also like that somehow being killed or messed up using all sorts of other devil fruit powers (Lots of which change your body) or anything like that is somehow not losing your bodily autonomy but change your gender? Nope THAT is crossing the line. Me thinks the only hypocrite here is you.

Okoga

tru. those are mainly unnamed animals tbf

Yagi di Hoshi

Yea, I wasn't arguing against that, I was just saying that there have been plenty of other animals that have personality that have been killed, and usually eaten.

Okoga

I don't really care about Pride Month or the LGBT+ community(they can live how they want) but I do like Ivankov. I care about the individual characters. One Piece is a story full of quirky characters that you fall in love with so it's easy to accept them for who they are in this story. Reality is a lot more difficult

Reise M.Lukas

Damn I wish there was a "get poked and instantly turn into a woman" option IRL.

Liesmith

LET ME SER THE NEW EPISODES!!!😭

ZsleepyZ

If you were born male, but identify female, you're trans. That's it.

Anzac-A1

Exactly. It's the whole walking a mile in someone else's shoes.

Anzac-A1

The guy was angry an Ivankov doing something to his Father...that his Father ASKED Ivankov to do. Ivankov just made him walk in his Father's shoes. He'd definitely turn him back if the guy asked.

Anzac-A1

For some reason, the post for Eps 440 + 441 disappeared. Wonder why.

Anzac-A1

Yeah, I had a feeling that you would love these episodes. I got so excited.

Alexander Saldivar

something that makes One Piece so great is it is as deep as you want it to be if you want fun goofy pirates or you want to delve deep into morals, law, identity or whatever else you can think of it's all there but be warned there is no bottom so dig down at your own risk.... - dramatically laughs ominously- (forgets to breath and starts coughing)

Rhiley Jones

I don't think you know what the word "hypocritical" means. Sure there are fates worse then death but gender change is a lot better than say having Law swapping your body parts around and mounting your head on a barrel. He probably shouldn't have tried to kill Ivankov in the first place. Your opinion is that the transition is a fate worse than death despite it being reversible. I don't agree.

YukoValis

Oh no, Ivankov's power... IT TURNS THE FU%£ING FROGS GEY!

Rat#394

I wouldn’t even call it appropriate tbh. Ivankov could have just knocked him out.

Lukundra

@Lewd Angel yes, sorry, of course he didn't die from his illness, I don't know why I said that. I meant to say that he got sick due to getting an incurable disease, not due to his "lifestyle". I'm caught up with the manga and I'm not sure what are you hinting at with "there was a reason he got sick". I don't remember anything about that, nor do I see any mention of that on the wiki, just what Rayleigh already said: he got an incurable disease and that was it. It's fine to think Luffy will emulate Roger by turning himself in, but I don't believe that is necessarily contingent on him getting his life span shortened. Maybe he will also get a disease or maybe there will be other reasons, but not for something generic as "lifespan". I think it's pretty clear that however the story will resolve itself, it has to do that in the current one piece "year". Luffy will have to find the one piece at his current age, that's why any talks about "losing years of life" have no impact on me and don't mean anything. The main issue is that gear 2 has to be the main factor, though, for what you said to happen, because so far wasn't Iva's treatment the only time that losing years of life was explicitly mentioned? And that is only 10 years. All other times were just generic warnings about doing something dangerous.

leviathan_13

For one thing i was trying not to allude to anything in the future to avoid spoilers, there was a reason Roger got sick as he did, for another i wasn't saying G2 would be the only reason Luffy would die early, but just like Rogers illness it will be a contributing factor. Roger didn't die from his sickness either, he allowed himself to get captured and executed because he wanted his death to have meaning, he wanted to "never die", instead of just passing in a bed. I have little doubt that what with everything thats happened to Luffy, everything that is happening right now, and everything that will happen both in the things Alicia will see before she catches up and beyond, he will eventually come to a point where his life has dwindled so much he will allow himself to be captured and executed, and start a new pirate era himself. It won't be before he becomes pirate king, but i don't see this man living past his 30ies

Lewd Angel

Alicia, You getting all the genders wrong throughout this episode just seems appropriate :P Also, Yeah, no. Transitioning someone against their will is not a good look. I will say though, the way the scene plays out, you could argue it helps establish Ivan as one of the many rough and ruthless pirates out there. Because to be honest, our Straw Hat crew is definitely odd in their lack of any of that ^^' So yeah, transitioning an enemy trying to kill you is ROUGH. But appropriate.

DaniDeFig

Luffys VA needed to pay the bills with that last scream

Amiss

HAPPY PRIDE MONTH FROM IVANKOV AND ALSO FROM ME, ALICIA.

Cristina Domenech

I am pretty sure Ivan is a direct reference, design-wise. It's too much of a coincidence.

DocteurNS

@Lewd Angel Roger didn't die "due the way he lived his life", though. He died for a fatal illness, so the parallelism doesn't work there. If Oda wants to make the story a full circle, then Luffy will get executed and that's it. All those "X years" lost won't have anything to do with his death and Luffy is still in his 20s. So far, it has "just" lost, like, 10 years to Iva's treatment. It will be hard to convince us that gear 2 has somehow eaten away all of his remaining lifespan, especially with how much control he has over it now and no more visible side effects, like at Enies Lobby. Even if Luffy will die, I don't think gear 2 will have anything to do with it.

leviathan_13

For me, this is a case where the additions in the anime, cultural differences between the West and Japan, and translation choices create a misleading image. Ivankov, for instance, never uses the word "gay." He uses "Okama," which refers more to crossdressers—men who wear women's clothes. While most Okama are indeed gay, this isn't always the case. What was translated as "gay hell" is a pun combining "Okama" and "Makai" (Okamakai), referring to the prison circumstances and the freedom being an Okama represents. The official English translation of the manga played it safe, translating it as "Queen Hell." Ivankov transcends the term Okama with the pun "Newkama," which also suggests "Newcomer," indicating a broader meaning. The key phrase here is "Man, Woman, or both – be whatever you want to be." Ivankov offers prisoners the opportunity for a gender change (which even many straight people might use out of curiosity), but this doesn't imply any attempt to change their sexual orientation. For Ivankov, gender is so fluid that Inazuma wears it like clothing. If the guy that attacked him came back and asked to be a man again he would change her/him in an instant.

F. Carasind

Two completely different scenarios lmao, and im sorry but the amount of people trying to excuse this about Iva is pretty hypocritical. I would 100% take death over having my bodily autonomy taken away, not even an argument to be had there. "He could've killed him tho" is a terrible ass excuss, yknow what else he could've done? NOT forced a total physical and mental change upon him and just knocked his ass out, like p much everyone else in the show does. Trying to excuse Ivas actions by the fact that he can change people back and forth at will is pretty messed up, and it doesn't change that what he did was messed up to begin with.

Lewd Angel

Considering Odas favorite writing aspect is foreshadowing, having Roger die an early death by getting sick due to the way he lived his life, having Luffy follow in his footsteps and then continually throughout the entire series explicity state that 'X thing will decrease your life' 'You'l lose X years in exhange for this' 'Keep this up and you'll die' (all things directly stated to Luffy and not just because of Gear 2). I think its more than clear and valid to say Oda is definitely setting Luffy up for a similar death to Roger.

Lewd Angel

Thanx for mentioning 100 gfs in your latest Stream. Hopefully by December, you can experience the joy that is Rentaro!

Ray_Ra_Ray

Personally Ivan always reminds me of 'The Rocky horror picture show'.

Calldero

They're really not any better then everyone else though. Their all pretty equal as allies and friends.

Kobalt Reaver

I disagree, I don't think you are looking at the full picture here. The guy was an enemy out to kill Ivankov. If they did the same to say whitebeard and was killed would you call that whitebeards L? Ivankov could have easily killed him but instead opened his eyes to what his father now mother must have felt. Being trapped in the wrong body. She might realize this isn't so bad, but she also might want to change back. I have no doubt if they asked Ivankov to reverse it they would.

YukoValis

Ivan did force that guy to transform but he was an enemy. Ivan could have probably killed him instead but decided to open his mind a little. If she comes back saying it wasn't for her then I have no doubt Ivan would change her back.

YukoValis

"I lost my princely status!" boo hoo. No kings no gods no masters. Forcing someone to change sex being bad aside, Ivankov and everything around Ivankov is why I can't stay sour at One Piece for Sanji sometimes coming off as transphobic (don't @ me, he can come off as transphobic even if the characters he's reacting to aren't "technically trans"). On the whole, the LGBTQIA+ characters in One Piece are some of the best friends the Strawhats can have, and that's pretty rad.

Lexi

i dont know why but the subtitles for this get ivankov's nickname incorrect, its supposed to be iva.

Draconic

28:09 From what I read in another translation, what happened was that the father became a transvestite, not that he only discovered that he was gay.

Pau Santos

I honestly never realized the impact of that scene as a cishet guy until I saw another creator who was nonbinary react to it and get upset by it. I do think they eventually came to enjoy the character, but I certainly see why that would be upsetting or even traumatizing to people. Originally I was just like "Huh, what a weird and shocking use of their power." I'm going to hope that's what Oda was going for, considering he's definitely been more supportive of queer individuals Also minor anime-only spoilers: . . . . . and we don't really see any other CANON scenes like that, though I think the anime has one more with a different outcome.

TheRoguelock

Also... *SPOILERS* . . . . . . . . . it's not even that bad later on. Luffy uses it so casually

TheRoguelock

This. I see so many "Luffy is gonna die like Roger at the end of One Piece" takes, and so many of them pointed to Gear 2. It's an anime power up. It has an intrinsic drawback: it exhausts him, can potentially leave him vulnerable if he uses it too much, etc. But it's not like "welp, Luffy used Gear 2 again, subtract another month off his life"

TheRoguelock

I wouldn't take that thing about gear 2 "eating away Luffy's life" too literally. It comes from Lucci's first impression of the technique, which Luffy was not yet used to, so by no means it's an unbreakable law. I would consider it as dangerous as smoking, for example. Bad lifestyle, that indeed might shorten your life span, but it's not like you lose a fixed amount with each use.

leviathan_13

Saddens me that they replaced Iva's previous VA (and even had the new guy rerecord his previous dialogue) No hate to the current VA but his old one was just so much better at this role....

Simulacrae

I've heard of HRT, but this is Ridiculous! Wakka wakka

Pat Boku

The dude did try to kill him just for helping his father transition. So he did kind of have some punishment coming. And I believe Oda clarified that the hormones Iva used on him would wear off in a few days.

Seraphem

have you read the cover stories?

Yagi di Hoshi

Love the wolf bits, reminds me of the wolves in PriConne

Cvillain626

Animals get killed all the time.

Okoga

It's magic, real world logic really doesn't apply. Gender changing for him is like flipping a light switch, trying to compare it to something like gender reassignment surgery just doesn't work. Also Ivan didn't change the father's gender, the guy just came back as an okama, two different things.

Okoga

You realize that forcing a change and forcing them to keep the change are two different things right? If they came back and asked to be changed back Ivan would absolutely change them back. It's magic, stop trying to apply real world logic here.

Okoga

ALSO - hmm, an "Emporio" who "owns a hidden-away room within a prison" with at least one gender-queer character. *coughanussycough* does this sound familiar? Also also, Ms. Friday & Mr. 13 (the animals that sanji incapacitated) ain't deadge. remember, it's one piece & that's the infamous no-killing-allowed alabasta saga other than the mooks that croco dried.

Yagi di Hoshi

HEE HAWW

Yagi di Hoshi

To be fair, if that person came back to Ivan and asked him to change them back into a man, Ivan would, no questions asked.

Okoga

imagine me, spring break late March 2010 when 438 /439 first aired, even with the most open-minded family 17 y/o me still had trouble coming out to them or literally anybody else - only to be met by such an amazing episode, only for me to go back & experience Skypiea/Water 7/Enies Lobby for the first time (my friend had to convince me to catch up at the time, he only got me enough to watch the current episodes) & have my life just utterly ***king changed in a heartbeat from then on. would NOT have this any other way. thank you sofa-king much, oda/toei.

Yagi di Hoshi

Invankov uses the hormones to disorient his opponents, when he can.

UltramanUltimo

early-mid 2009 in the manga

Yagi di Hoshi

Do we know if the change is actually permanent? We hear about the guy's dad turning into a woman but are we sure it's not like a resident in Kamabakka?

Jimmy H Lam

Lol you are most certainly right but that's because the Nazi angle is also a part of the Cabaret tie in~ which has a setting in Berlin during the rise of fascism

Shykiba

Oh and let's not forget that the guards are in either devil costumes or Nazi uniforms. So yeah, Impel Down is a Concentration Camp. Which also makes sense when you know the World Government. Oda did and SBS clearing up that the patches are an overlapping I and D. But we know what is implied on those armbands.

Jimmy H Lam

FYI: The Impel Down arc (or the Queer arc at that point) first aired in japan October 2009

Chamoun101

I would say even Luffy punching idiots is worse than getting sexchanged in combat...

Silver Blade

Being able to control a bodies hormones is a scary power. But Ivankov understands the importance and is all about hope. You got to love that about them.

YukoValis

ivankow looks like a sweet transvestite. do you think he'd enjoy a trip to transsexual transilvania? i'm sure he'd get along great with dr frank-n-furter. but yeah, as much as i like ivankov, and as others pointed out, him forcefully changing that one dude's gender, clearly against his will, is a very iffy move to pull. pretty sure it wasn't meant as such, but it paints ivankov in a very negative light.

JHow

27:56 - lotta people like to ignore it so i'll not point it out but gotta admit, oda really is goated for bringing up such a hot topic in the open. Glad through the next 100 episodes he shows the darker side.

Easy Mode - A.I

Better than killing them though, especially when you know you can reverse it later. Consider what's at stake if this guy goes to the prison guards - given the alternative ways of dealing with the situation, this one seems pretty merciful to me. I'm more bothered by how it relates to real-world issues, but honestly, I think One Piece has the right spirit, just needs a bit of help with "preferred terminology" and such.

Squirrel

Can’t wait until you start binging this again lol.

Joshua Wadcock

HEEHAW!! Alicia gets an invite to the epic pride party hosted by the queen of New Kama Land!

Sam Marsh

I love Ivan as a character but maaaaan, the irony of this part showing up during pride month, and Ivan forcing someone to change genders after doing it to the dudes father destroyed his family and forced him into piracy? Biggest L move a character could make during the worst time possible lol And lets not pretend you don't use real world morality during like 99% of the rest of the show, Ivan don't get a pass cuz hes queer and its pride, he did a fucked up thing end of story. Bro is lucky he has some awesome moments coming up, otherwise i don't think he'd be remembered fondly

Lewd Angel

HEEEEEEE-HAAAAAAWWWW!!!!!! and yeah forcing someone to undergo body modification is kinda fucked up, but also what better punishment for someone who is transphobic and want to kill them than to transition them? that dude deserved it imo. and if he really wanted he could just ask for forgiveness and ask to be changed back, Invankov isn't petty like that

nick

See, as a straight guy I can't really identify with Iva's talk about being queer and all that, but I still love Iva as a character because he's funny and his talk about miracles at the end there was awesome! And he's a Rocky horror picture show reference! So fun. Also he allows for fanfic about gender-bender fun, lol.

Serith

I mean it is possible that they knew something the other person didn't or that they wanted to make someone who thought so little of others to feel the pain that person felt.

Speed1247

We really need binge rn, for the end of this arc... Like, don't do that to yourself and us 😭😭

TTJek

His ability isn't turn someone into their true self it's fill them with hormones untill their body changes. It's called a hormone shot not gender reverse.

Gamer Kane

Forcing people to be someone they're not and trying to gaslight them into thinking it's true feels like those gay conversion camps in reverse with added body modification. I've never liked Ivankov their like anti Bon Clay to me one is kind, accepting secure with who they are and accept others for who they are, go above and beyond and the other is Ivankov.

Gamer Kane

About Damn TIME we got to this point!! YEE-HAW!! Zane I say That, PROUDLY as a Texas Son!

Chris White

I will say this the move isn't done to often and as a head cannon I don't think a person can just be transformed but have some thought about it that being said Iva has a pretty great backstory and some really cool moments

John

I really want to like Ivankov, but forcing someone to live in a body of a gender they don't want is probably gonna take me a while to come around to the character. I hope he/she/they has a lot of good moments in the future.

Runiic

Fun hunter x hunter fact, the only female ant is the queen so not only are you reacting to the queerest one-piece arc during pride month you're also reacting to the queerest hxh arc as well. And the cat ant who killed kite uses any and all pronouns.

mustofolys

Get a trial version of being a woman and see if you like it, if not, come back to Ivan and talk it out

Snellard

In an non Crunchroll translation it described as each cell breaking down and repairing for the healing so that's why it hurts so much.

Icy

So we are at the point I can say it~ This arc has a lot of references but the BIG 4 are~ Cabaret, Rocky Horror Picture Show, Dante's Inferno. And just General Hell!~ Also fun Fact Alicia~ Inazuma was a hint at Ivankiv's power because off screen Inazuma has Ivankov change their gender constantly~ Also both Ivankov and Inazuma are gender fluid and throughout use all pronouns. (Though most of time go by they/he or what their body's currently are at that moment).

Shykiba

Wolves are natural burrowers, as they make dens to live in the wild.

Vincent

Someone pointed out to me that level 5.5 might be a reference to the the Stonewall inn in NY and I like to think Oda is so keyed in that it's a possibility. It's a Safe space Gay bar, and it's where queer liberation in the US truly began.

Jimmy H Lam

Yayyy more one pieceee

Accel

HEEEEEEHAAAWWW

British Ninja

I have waited for this! GUYS GET IN HERE!

Jasmin Jakobsen

What's a Queer's favorite Eeveelution? LESBEON! 😂

Chamoun101

Ivankov is voiced by the JP actor for the character Iva is based on

Icy

They boxed themselves in......but they forgot to realize that the wolves could still get in from underneath lmao! Also Ivan!!!! Heeeeeeeehaw!!!

BewearKing64

ONE PIECE JUST DROPPED! 🔥🔥

Hassan Ali


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