4x21
Added 2023-03-18 08:15:50 +0000 UTCSuper late but as promised:)
Comments
Jac, Eren is the hero.
Leo
2024-10-17 18:14:27 +0000 UTCjacksons claim is because Zeke thinks he is doing it for eldia. but its irrational. even if he thinks that's why he is doing it.
Niffol
2024-10-04 22:57:14 +0000 UTCNo, not ‘fax’. Sweet Jesus, some peoples narrative comprehension is zero.
Jac
2024-09-28 14:07:00 +0000 UTC‘Eren is the hero’… I see you missed the entire point of the show. People like you deeply concern me.
Jac
2024-09-28 14:06:24 +0000 UTCThat’s not even remotely the same idea lmao
Jac
2024-09-28 14:05:36 +0000 UTC"Relativism is the view that there is no absolute moral truth." "What counts as right or wrong is relative to the individual or culture.” "There is no such thing as truth in this world. That is our reality. Anyone can become a God or a Devil. All it takes is for someone to claim that to be the truth." - Kruger
Meave
2024-09-15 09:28:35 +0000 UTCEren Kruger-His world view developed as a spy. At first he want nothing but to crush Marley . But life time of terrible deeds tripped away at his fanaticism . No longer believe founder Ymir is the goddess as Eldien claimed nor he buy into marly propaganda that she’s a pawn of a devil. In fact , Kruger’s tenure as a spy effected him so greatly. He came to deny concept of objective truth. Claimed that every thing is matter of personal options.
Meave
2024-09-15 09:28:13 +0000 UTCAlso very late, but yeah Zeke absolutely is fighting for Eldians. He believes that the value of life as an eldian is negative, and therefore never being born is better. Using that logic, not having your potential children is the best thing you can do for them. He also believes that once the world learns that the eldians will end with the people alive today, they won't persecute them nearly as much for their lifetimes since the fear on that front is almost entirely gone.
Huxley Bennett
2024-08-26 15:58:22 +0000 UTC9 petals :)
Ray
2024-06-29 17:11:05 +0000 UTCEven Hitler had allies is a crazy bar
Kevin Harrington
2024-06-18 01:44:53 +0000 UTCAfter having watched this show multiple times, my conclusion is this; I think the euthanasia plan was probably the right way to go about it, however, I can see why Eren wouldn’t want to do that. It wouldn’t be an easy choice, but the euthanasia plan would be the most humane. It’s a terrible spot to be put in, to have to choose between the two, because the only real other option is just lay down and die. No one would want to be in that position.
Dakota
2024-03-25 05:21:43 +0000 UTCMonths late, but this was my understanding. From Zeke’s point of view, being born an Eldian is a curse. He felt that him being born and all the things that happened to him just because he was an Eldian was unjust. Likewise with all the other persecuted Eldians, because they are essentially just kept as cattle to ensure the power of the titans are always passed down to whomever wants their power. So in his belief, ending their race through sterilization would finally stop the perpetual suffering and persecution of Eldians for the rest of time.
yoink
2024-01-15 11:58:37 +0000 UTCThat's my point, he's causing them to go extinct. That's not fighting for eldia, that's the complete opposite.
smiv
2023-11-20 20:39:54 +0000 UTCZeke said it in the anime, he wants to sterilise the eldians so that they go extinct, removing the threat of titans from the world after around 100 years. He also says that he’s saving eldians from being born into this world because all they do is suffer. So in a sense he is fighting for eldia and the world.
Kpop Tart
2023-11-20 17:56:20 +0000 UTCAlso we need anime based on how Brig goes back in time and kills his dad in 1971 and see what happens.
Sasha
2023-10-31 16:50:14 +0000 UTCCarter going strong with Eren, just like me.
Sasha
2023-10-31 16:36:51 +0000 UTCidk what jackson was thinking saying that zeke was fighting for eldia. He's literally wiping out the entire race, that's not trying to end the persecution. It's ending eldia.
smiv
2023-08-11 03:23:44 +0000 UTCThere's no way to justify Eren's actions but do we still love him as a character and hope for the best for him? Yes because...good storytelling If the world wasn't the way it was, would Eren do this? OF COURSE NOT. He would be travelling the world and being free but because this world sucks, Eren became the monster that the whole world said he was.
Helily
2023-04-19 00:04:04 +0000 UTCAbout the conversation at the end- think about it, the morals behind Eren's rumbling are comparable to the U.S. during WWII when they used nuclear bombs against Japan. In order to prevent more loss of soldiers on both sides, they opted to take the initiative and kill innocent kids and people in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Obviously, Eren's rumbling is on a much more massive scale, but it is a similar idea.
Matthew Cava
2023-04-10 04:42:42 +0000 UTC3. Zeke mentioned in previous episode. Everytime somebody calls for the power of titans she is the one who builds it. So every single time a shifter transformed, that lighting and titan forming in seconds, was actually an eternity of ymir bucket by bucket building the bodies every single time. Everytime a new pure titan was created, same story. So how much millenia has she being just walking, making titans, with her hands. Just because she doesn't have a will of her own. Because she was a slave. Untill Eren, for the first time in eternity, treated her like a human.. this one I think Jack pointed out, that Eren got the full power of ymir because, as they said, she chose to give it to him. For the first time ever, she chose somebody and that it hardcore
Martin Eliecer Mitre Thomas
2023-04-07 11:25:09 +0000 UTC2. Notice that when Ymir after dying fell on Paths it was just a light. When her 3 daughters ate her the light got split on 3 branches and as the subjects of ymir kept reproducing the three started getting more and more branches becoming the masive tree of light we have being seeing. which is that connection of all subjects of ymir.
Martin Eliecer Mitre Thomas
2023-04-07 11:20:04 +0000 UTC1. Eren changed his speech to "Subjects of Ymir" rather than Eldians. Now we know they are not exactly the same thing. Eldia was the empire, while subjects of ymir are direct descendants of ymir. Eldia tribe existed before Ymir. There are eldians that are not subjects of ymir. Therefore those eldians cannot be transformed in titans, and those eldians cannot be affected by the founder. Those are the noble families we saw early season 3 that said "you cannot alter our memories". Because they are not connected to the coordinate.
Martin Eliecer Mitre Thomas
2023-04-07 11:17:27 +0000 UTC3 things I have not seen being mention in the comments or the video and I want to share.. (check replies)
Martin Eliecer Mitre Thomas
2023-04-07 11:13:01 +0000 UTCScrew “humanity.” Why should Eldians (especially the ones on Paradis) have to go extinct just to save a world that wants them all dead?
locomojoboy
2023-04-03 06:19:05 +0000 UTCFAX!!!
locomojoboy
2023-04-03 06:15:02 +0000 UTCOne reason why Eren had to do the rumbling is to save Historia. If he only destroyed a portion of the military, Historia and her children would be forced to wield the power of the beast titan so they can maintain the threat.
Jason Pham
2023-03-29 18:32:21 +0000 UTCWhat people don’t want to talk about enough is that Marley kept their hatred for Eldia but then did exactly what was done to them…to others. Eldians on Paradise Island were ignorant and innocent but were made into the monsters that they are…the hatred of the world made Eren who he is. Someone who has had enough of the hatred and slavery. He’s freeing those he cares about…and sacrificing his own freedom in the process. It was the only way to guarantee freedom for those he loved without making them have to fight an endless war.
Chase Blevins
2023-03-28 20:02:26 +0000 UTCcan't wait for death note
hatemylife2003
2023-03-28 03:05:09 +0000 UTCLet’s all just remember that if the world was telling you that your family and all the ones you held dear to you had to die, you’d be doing the same god damn thing. Eren is the one in the right, he is the hero, he’s making absolutely sure that the ones he loves and his people will never face oppression again. Yes, the eldians committed atrocities for 2000 years, but when the eldians finally realized what they did was wrong, and made peace, EVEN when they didn’t have to, the marleyans were the ones who continued the genocide, and the concentration camps, and the indoctrination. Eldia may have killed billions of people, but they were never corrupting people, you knew their intentions. Eren is the hero, and the world is his enemy.
Samuel Horwitz
2023-03-27 23:54:35 +0000 UTCeren is doing nothing wrong, he’s merely fulfilling the promise the king made
Samuel Horwitz
2023-03-27 23:49:40 +0000 UTCThis whole journey you guys have taken to finally watch aot, and a journey it is, has been incredible & by far my favourite. I’ve seen all your reaction videos eagerly waiting for this moment. This video. Let me say the wait was worth it. For that thank you. To see others feel the deep emotional impact of Ymir finally standing up to her oppressors. It is the most powerful scene I’ve ever watched. Thank you again. It really means the world to me, especially coming from you guys. Glad it’s still fun to watch aot fans bring in more victims to be scarred with us 🙃 btw I would LOVE to see you guys react to One Punch Man! ☺️
Dakota Croft
2023-03-26 22:35:08 +0000 UTCEren really nailed the masterclass on introducing himself: 1. Greeting - "Hear me, Subjects of Ymir." 2. Name - "My name is Eren Jeager." 3. Relevant Personal Link - "I'm addressing my fellow Subjects of Ymir, speaking to you directly through the power of the Founder." 4. Manage Expectations - "The Titans of the Walls will continue their march until every trace of life beyond our shores is trampled flat, and the people of Paradis are all that remains of humanity."
Guy
2023-03-26 00:56:57 +0000 UTCCARTER YOU CAN TOTALLY JUSTIFY IT, JEAGERIST FOR LIFE 💯💯💯 also just for scale, some youtubers did the calculations based on the size of the walls, and came up with a conclusion that there are approx 573,084 colossals that he's gonna trample the world with.
Someone Someone
2023-03-25 01:41:47 +0000 UTCRemember, the other part of the Euthanization plan was to do a small version of the rumbling so that the would would not touch the remaining Eldians while they slowly go extinct. (It's also the reason they didn't execute the plan while they were in Marley. They planned to meet in Shiganshina)
Eugene Conner
2023-03-24 18:51:56 +0000 UTCYeah, they were slaves to the Eldian Empire and now they're slaves to Marley.
seamus4ever
2023-03-24 01:38:59 +0000 UTC5 guys arguing about the logic of time travel is really entertaining lol
Theresa
2023-03-24 00:42:51 +0000 UTCthe past exists because the future exists, it was this simple sentence that made me better understand the history of timelines
Audreyldo
2023-03-23 09:21:42 +0000 UTCZeke fights to achieve his dream with mr xaver
Audreyldo
2023-03-23 08:47:03 +0000 UTCThis did it for me. This comment makes this whole time travel thing very clear. I fully agree with it, I was thinking the same thing, glad you see it that way, too.
A M
2023-03-23 06:32:16 +0000 UTCI guess I didn’t remember that part. For sure thats fair👍🏽
Emily
2023-03-23 03:44:13 +0000 UTCSo i went to watch it, but it clearly says ENDING MANGA SPOILERS at the beginning of the video, so idk wym by anime only can watch it. I just not gonna risk it until the final part comes out.
Mamox
2023-03-23 03:04:20 +0000 UTCPlease tell me there's a reaction to this episode name and Episode 1x1 name
jordan winters
2023-03-23 01:38:07 +0000 UTCthe answer to your question will be solved once the very last part of the series finale comes out. Promise.
mk9beatz
2023-03-22 23:50:09 +0000 UTCCarter looking for ways to justify Eren being the villain of the story from the very beginning. From second 1 of episode 1.
Tomislav Pijanec
2023-03-22 19:21:08 +0000 UTCIf Eren killed every human outside paradise and only let Subjects of Ymir (including those in Liberio) live, he could erase their memories and then make it so Subjects of Ymir can't turn into titans anymore. Then everyone would forget all this ever happened, and there wouldn't be more conflict over titans in the future. At least that's how I see it.
seamus4ever
2023-03-22 17:34:05 +0000 UTCThe only person Zeke cares about is Eren I think.
seamus4ever
2023-03-22 17:26:58 +0000 UTCYou should look at the titles for Season 1 Ep 1, and this Season 4 Ep 21
Tyler
2023-03-22 13:25:20 +0000 UTCThis is a utilitarian question more than anything. The way the show's communicated it, the entire world wants to commit genocide against the Eldians. Although wiping out the global alliance will buy them time, it will also sew seeds of hatred in the next generation which will allow another alliance to rise up and attack Eldia again. If that happens, there is no guarantee that they will be able to weild the power of the founder due to the king's curse. Even if so, history will continue to repeat itself as hatred continues on for thousands of years (like what happened when Ymir first gained power of the titans). What Eren wants to do is end the cycle of war and hatred forever by restarting the human race. I don't know if there is any other way to do so but fate is sealed since the founding is in Eren's hands. I understand that he wants to protect his people but I do wish that displaying the rumbling would be enough to put an end to things. But judging how humans react to attacks such as Paradis' invasion, I doubt things will ever end. All in all, the world is simply too cruel to stop their ways unless something tragic occurs on a mass level. Eren is basically the consequence of such a world when you think about it
Vicpres
2023-03-22 13:14:07 +0000 UTCThis episode has the best commentary. From the discussions of real world politics and world peace to arguing about how time travel works. I love y'all. I'm here for the split between Yaegerists and non here. Even though there's no true right side it's great to hear both sides. The banter between Canon and Carter after the episode ended literally made me chuckle. And I loved the discussion of the grandfather paradox. But no I'm not smarter so I can't explain it better sorry lmao
Wulfheart
2023-03-22 03:36:25 +0000 UTCyea i also thought of that, it would be in a sense like light yagami going into confinement to prove he isn't kira, still idk how they'd prove it. either way their fear isn't going away just because they presumably can't no more. ur right lol
Samael
2023-03-21 18:28:40 +0000 UTCwhat reason would marley or the rest of the world be inclined to believe them? and if they do believe them and prove it there goes the only means of defending themselves bc none of the 9 would be able to transform
Wilson Nguyen
2023-03-21 18:00:14 +0000 UTCI just thought of something now.. Why make eldians to stop bearing children when you can just ask to make eldians unable to turn into titans... Bruhhh
Samael
2023-03-21 14:18:27 +0000 UTCI love how Cannon goes “what if some other race came an wiped us out??” His inflection was so funny! 😂😂
manderlee
2023-03-21 04:34:26 +0000 UTCBasically, his past self saw his dad's past memories of the memories that his future self sent back to his dad.
Gestrid
2023-03-20 18:19:17 +0000 UTCActually, the Back to the Future approach would still lead to Brigg not existing (see: BTTF1). BUT, if he just changed something about his parents' relationship in the past (ex. making his parents rich), Brigg would still exist. The difference would be that his parents would be rich. He'd return to the present without any new memories but would still be a part of the current timeline (see: BTTF2 and 3).
Gestrid
2023-03-20 18:16:52 +0000 UTCTHIS is spot on! i always feel like subjects of ymir is a victim of eldian's kingdom greed
adam
2023-03-20 14:16:14 +0000 UTCforgot to watch now I have to catch up to hundreds of comments cool lol
A_Daddy Daichi
2023-03-20 05:23:32 +0000 UTCSomething you guys might have missed... Eren sees Ymir's memories in the first half of this episode (sort of like when Reiner touched Galliard a couple episodes ago). It's relieved that the Eldian Empire was around long before the age of the titans. When Eren addresses everyone using the power of the coordinate there's a subtle distinction. He does not call them Eldians anymore, he calls his people "Subjects of Ymir"
Erich R
2023-03-20 04:36:18 +0000 UTCYes you can ! It doesn’t spoil the end just more about Eren’s character development.
Emily
2023-03-20 03:57:32 +0000 UTCI've been meaning to watch it but can you watch it without seeing the very last part yet to come? i wasnt sure if it brought up the manga ending in and it would spoil
Mamox
2023-03-20 03:55:59 +0000 UTCI recommend you watching the youtube video "This video will change how you see Eren"
Emily
2023-03-20 02:43:45 +0000 UTCTo be clear, I totally understand how Eren got to where he is, and I even sympathize. He did feel backed into a corner, and he is a devil of the rest of the world's making. But I can't understand how his full Rumbling could be even remotely justified as self-defense.
Sarah
2023-03-20 02:23:36 +0000 UTCTo those stating, "But if Eren doesn't use the full rumbling, what's to stop the world from doign x, y, and z in retaliation," you're absolutely right, there's nothing definitive to stop them (although there are several decent strategies Paradis could use that have already been mentioned). But I don't think you should base your moral decisions in the NOW on a conjecture about the evil that some else could do (or even is likely to do) in the FUTURE. Saying that it's justified self-defense to rumble the entire world because if you don't, the likely outcome is that the world will wipe you out with advanced tech in the next few decades, is like saying it's ok to kill someone as a child because you have very good cause to believe they're going to grow up into a serial killer. Or, to use an already oft used example, to kill Hitler as a baby. I just can't see how one can justify that. Other people's choices are their own and we can't control them. All we can do is what we know to be right, right now.
Sarah
2023-03-20 02:21:16 +0000 UTCLove that Cannon so incisively noted that Zeke is really fighting for no one and nothing. I think he's spot on. Zeke is a nihilist and it shows over and over in his choices that he does not value individual lives. I think it makes him even more of a juxtaposition to Levi than Eren, even. Levi has never cared much about the "big picture" (always left that to Erwin) or the political machinations of it all. He only ever wanted to protect the individual people under his command/care. Whereas Zeke couldn't care less about all the individual people's he's slaughtered in the name of "saving the world." (For example, just think back to how in Shiganshina he called all the Scouts "pathetic" for dying for a cause that they cared about. Boy that *burns me up.*) You could also argue that Armin and Zeke are foils for similar reasons, or even Zeke and Reiner too.
Sarah
2023-03-20 01:42:10 +0000 UTCI love how isayama is such a dork that he based the ancient creature on a real prehistoric organism, the hallucigenia.
lafatte24
2023-03-20 01:15:24 +0000 UTCi love that haha!!! it blew my mind when i saw it. just knowing isayama had this whole story planned out from chapter / episode 1….🤯🤯 insane!!!
jordan solomon
2023-03-19 21:54:58 +0000 UTCYes🥺
Studio Geck
2023-03-19 21:50:33 +0000 UTCYes it’s actually one of the only things I knew about the show before we started it was those two titles haha
Studio Geck
2023-03-19 21:49:29 +0000 UTCnot sure if it's been pointed out to you guys yet but remember the first episodes title? "To You, 2000 years in the future" take that into consideration when looking at the title of this episode, 80 episodes after the first one came out, "From You, 2000 years ago"
jordan solomon
2023-03-19 20:36:53 +0000 UTCEren is a true leader who did what he had to. To save his people.
Arun Randhawa
2023-03-19 17:20:52 +0000 UTCyeah they said 22 and 23 are coming today!
bloartle
2023-03-19 17:10:17 +0000 UTCanymore eps coming this week ?:)
woah
2023-03-19 16:31:32 +0000 UTCSo pumped for today’s uploads🥹🫶🏼
Abby Rodriguez
2023-03-19 15:57:29 +0000 UTC@ Darren Pangan - No shade or anything, bc I know this is the dominant narrative about Jews and WWII, but this is a pretty big misconception about what the situation was like. Very few people were fighting for the Jews during that war. The US turned away Jewish refugee boats, and scapegoated American Jews saying they dragged the US into the war (even though Roosevelt just wanted to help the Allies). The British post-war were also pretty terrible to Jewish refugee boats, etc., and lots of antisemitism has continued around the world since the war. So the analogy definitely works - antisemitism has been a worldwide problem for thousands of years, and there are a lot of similarities between Subjects of Ymir and Jewish experiences, stereotypes, and folklore
Julia Perez
2023-03-19 15:26:29 +0000 UTChi can reply to me
Mark Tabiano
2023-03-19 15:01:28 +0000 UTCOne last note on the topic of Eren, Aot's creator Isayama had said that Eren "...is a character that reflects the worst parts of him, and this is a story about getting rid of the worst parts of him." I haven't read the manga and have no idea how this story is going to end, but I'm curious to see how this line from Isayama may or may not play out.
James
2023-03-19 14:26:03 +0000 UTCNo upload today?
JEYEPJI TV
2023-03-19 14:06:10 +0000 UTCRoyal blood means descendants of King Fritz. The "power" of royal blood is only because Ymir views that as her master and is a slave to that will
Jag_227
2023-03-19 11:51:56 +0000 UTCGenghis Kahn lived 800 years ago and about a third of the world is a descendant of his. Imagine if he had titans to conquer even more lands too
__JMN
2023-03-19 08:32:41 +0000 UTCYou’re right that genocide isn’t the solution. That’s why isayama portrayed the ending the way he did. I don’t want to spoil too much in case the reactors see this but, that’s the whole point. I don’t think isayama provided us with any solid solutions. Eren’s plan is indiscriminate genocide. It’s wrong. But same with zeke. They’re both equally horrifying in my eyes for different reasons. Eren chose a violent method to wipe out life outside paradis. Zeke wanted to euthanize all eldians. The thing is, once you reach a point of killing many people, it doesn’t matter if it’s 1000, 1,000,000 or a 1,000,000,000. It doesn’t matter at that point. It becomes just a number. Both Yeager brothers came up with unviable solutions. The thing with zeke is that he genuinely believes he’s morally right and his path is salvation for everyone. He doesn’t value life or find meaning in it. It’s why I can’t stand him. Eren, acknowledges how f’ed up his plan. The thing with all the civilians is, they still contributed to the occurrence of the rumbling. It’s the whole concept of the banality of evil where even “normal” people can still contribute to the most evil acts by being compliant, etc. it doesn’t matter that they held less power vs the government. Many of the people, because they selfishly wanted to survive, didn’t mind hating on a whole island of people, blaming them, killing others to earn a better status/life, etc etc. Doing all that, directly or indirectly contributes to bringing about the evil rumbling. Almost everyone is guilty. That doesn’t mean they deserved to be trampled to death, but they all were just as responsible. The only people who are truly innocent are the young children. So I almost find it ironic that the one person eren apologizes and confessed to is a child. Armin’s plan would’ve been even more disastrous for paradis then eren’s plan because a small scale rumbling would have instilled enough fear in ppl that they would try to eradicate all people on paradis within a decade. Their hatred for eldians also would’ve grown. Armin’s plan only involved wiping out the allied global force. That doesn’t mean other nations don’t have research facilities safely hidden somewhere else that they could use to advance themselves. Even if there economies took a huge hit, that would be even more motivation to develop themselves quickly and wage war on the island. That plan would’ve also led to a genocide but spread out across time. The thing is, if you’re choosing between two options and choosing the one that causes less death I still think that’s just as messed up. So just because you’re part of the smaller group you should die instead? No that’s just morally so wrong. All I think is that isayama is showing that no violent option or a show of force is gonna ever lead to peace. Peace will only happen when both parties agree to end the violence together. This story is a good example of the flaws of our own society and what they may lead us to in the future. It’s more so like a cautionary tale. So, I guess there’s no point deciding who’s right or wrong because no one in this story is right. Eren isn’t a character I hate. He’s a character I pity. He’s doing exactly what Reiner did, but at a larger scale. He hates himself, but he would rather kill the humanity within him then leave his family’s future hanging in the air. In a kill or be killed situation, I can understand the choice he made. It’s definitely wrong, but I can understand it.
Keneizha Rubanarayana
2023-03-19 08:22:12 +0000 UTCI still don’t understand that tho how can hundreds of thousands of not millions be related to someone who was born 2000 years ago - and won’t everyone have royal blood then?
Prince Diamond
2023-03-19 08:13:28 +0000 UTCEren is bae.
Derora
2023-03-19 08:06:54 +0000 UTCEpisode 24 is underrated
Mason Braden
2023-03-19 07:57:24 +0000 UTCThe last good episode is the last 1 and when floch gets shot
Lag Sold
2023-03-19 07:48:14 +0000 UTCALSO, back when Eren and Zeke first made contact and there was that weird memory sequence, there’s an easter egg of a modern nerd looking Armin and a goth Mikasa. They’re from a spoof Isayama made of the main story, and there are some really interesting theories about it and why they showed up.
Starriyu
2023-03-19 07:46:18 +0000 UTCAre you guys aware of the massive foreshadowing from the very beginning with the name of the first episode??? Also Eren be like: “there can’t be racism, if there’s only. One. Race.
Starriyu
2023-03-19 07:36:32 +0000 UTCWe have LOVED reading all your comments and discussions and can’t wait to dive deeper into it in our season review! Hopefully we can talk live with some of you!
Studio Geck
2023-03-19 07:09:22 +0000 UTCHey everyone! Sorry no posts today. Tomorrow we will finish up next weeks uploads with episodes 22&23, and then when we film the new Last of us episode it will be uploaded that night. Still not sure when that is. Be looking for the uploads tomorrow afternoon!
Studio Geck
2023-03-19 07:07:49 +0000 UTCthis brother duo has me weak😩😩
YourGirl
2023-03-19 06:28:30 +0000 UTCif mckay isn’t your profile pic then what are you doing?😤😮💨🥱
YourGirl
2023-03-19 06:13:04 +0000 UTCMy understanding is Eldians can turn into titans because they are connected to the Coordinate by being blood descendants of Ymir. Ymir creates and sends the power of the titans through the paths to those that are related to her. That's what the tree represents imo (notice it grew more branches as time passed) - like a family tree.
Jag_227
2023-03-19 05:50:28 +0000 UTCbtw aot is on a fixed timeline so basically whatever happened in the future is destined to happen and cannot be changed
Brayden
2023-03-19 05:37:29 +0000 UTCand i stan with him
Brayden
2023-03-19 05:31:54 +0000 UTCIs this it for the weekend? :(
Game Time
2023-03-19 05:28:10 +0000 UTCIt’s been 5 hours and my tendies are untouched, cold and dry 😵💫
Kim555
2023-03-19 05:27:27 +0000 UTCive been waiting for ep 20 and 21 for a long time lmao. yall reaction were great. cant wait for ep 28
Brayden
2023-03-19 05:22:26 +0000 UTCI am sorry but I don’t even understand WHY Eren is doing it. The more I think about it, the less sense it makes to me.
Shiro
2023-03-19 05:19:40 +0000 UTCWe're getting older Second, by second, by second 🎵🤘🏼
Melizé
2023-03-19 05:18:42 +0000 UTCI am sorry, but your point is moot about the hatred. In spite of the hatred, we see Willy Tyber has built a considerable relationship with the rest of the world and is advocating for his race. The world fears Paradis because of the rumbling, and Eren proved them right. There are several possibilities and risks that can be taken, but some people want a certain solution, and death is indeed a final solution. But I have pointed out in my previous comment, rumbling genocide solves none of the Paradians problems- they will persist in a much smaller world of Paradis. The problem are the subjects of Ymir who can turn to titans, not the rest of the world. The rest of the world hates/fears them because of their ability to transform into mindless titans. Merely killing everyone else provides no solution, and it is morally and ethically wrong on so many levels, I cannot even… The reason I loved this show was that in the beginning, humanity was fighting monsters who were overwhelming them in shape and size. The indiscriminate slaughter of the people made us root and cheer for the Scouts and Eren. Even when the enemies were humans like Kenny, we still supported our side because they were fighting for the truth. And to see Eren now indiscriminately slaughter other people and the unfairness of it all, I cannot ever in my life justify this. Not to mention, the environmental impact of billions of lives - people, trees and animals included- imagine the stench, decomposition process and loss of life and biodiversity. This is unconscionable, and only acts of nature are allowed to take a toll such as this. A mere human slaughtering billions to save 10 people… assuming they will be saved given the root problem has not gone away. People can still transform and play power politics. Remember Eldia already had internal infighting before Fritz took leave. So the problems, hatred, politics, etc. is not going away through rumbling. Floch was already killing dissidents.
Shiro
2023-03-19 05:14:56 +0000 UTCEven if you kill Eren, they will still remain, though in mindless form.
Shiro
2023-03-19 04:55:55 +0000 UTCAlso, something that no one has discussed so far (or maybe they have) is how will you stop the colossals and the rumbling? Clearly, we need Eren to be in charge of them, and once Eren finishes his 13 year term, who’s to say they just don’t roam about and come and stomp Paradis out? Is Armin personally going to wrestle each of the million colossals in his titan form for the rest of his life? Now Paradis does not have any walls to protect them from these wandering titans, so essentially they are trapped in their world once again, only this time there are colossals outside and I don’t know whether the Survey Corps will be up to exterminate them like the previous corps. You will need a Founding titan to control them…it’s back to square one.
Shiro
2023-03-19 04:54:58 +0000 UTC😂
YourGuy
2023-03-19 04:49:08 +0000 UTCIt's a time paradox but it works out if you consider a series of events that "could" have happened to lead to the current situation and then Eren using the Attack Titan's future memory viewing to influence the past to cause things to alter to his ideal circumstances. So for everything to logically work out, the original timeline of events without Eren's influence would lead to Grisha at some point stealing the coordinate (but perhaps not in the way that we saw or at the time that we saw) and a vial of titan serum so that he could then pass it on to Eren, giving Eren the power to eventual influence Grisha into executing certain events differently based on the memories of Grisha that he accessed. What we see is then the paradoxical outcome of the timeline shifted to suite Eren's objectives. And specifically to your guy's discussion I interpret the killing your dad paradox like a loop in a straight line, where if time is normally a straight line, through time travel you have taken a loop to wrap back onto a former part of time, so if you kill your father a new you will not be born but the current you will still exist. You have altered what events willnow occur and your father will not be able to father you but you cannot delete events that you experienced. The moment that you time travel you have already taken matter and duplicated it in the past, essentially making matter from nothing so your existence there is now a fresh incarnation to that world, and therefor not tied to your previous world. You have disconnnected from your former existence so I don't see the death of your father making you disappear, as you are a "foreigner" to that world in the first place. You killed your father, yet that person was not "your" father.
Nick K
2023-03-19 04:06:14 +0000 UTCCannon is so based 😭 as mentioned before, I was not expecting him to be anti-rumbling!
Gael
2023-03-19 04:05:38 +0000 UTCLook at me now I won't hide anymore, even if it hurts Going insane to stay sane Raise your hands for the past me Now, set me free
Jian
2023-03-19 03:42:01 +0000 UTCWell, Eren is fighting for the *new* Eldian empire AKA Paradis. He could care less about the Eldians facing persecution around the world
Gael
2023-03-19 03:39:49 +0000 UTCI see, I just thought it was easier than castrating them or committing genocide. I think Marley got support from other nations because of Willy Tybur and the fear he placed in them. But taking the ability to turn into titans out of the equation, I think maybe the other nations would turn against Marley instead, not sure. Ugh so complicated haha so hard to find a good solution to it.
Melizé
2023-03-19 03:27:59 +0000 UTCPlan for world peace: use the threat of colossal titans to force all Eldians to be sent as refugees to Paradis island, consolidate the power of the nine into the founder (minus Zeke as he needs to remain alive as a separate titan with royal blood), use the remaining time of the founder to advance Eldia to that of a modern nation so that it could resist invasion, use the founder's power to alter all Eldian's so that they are severed from Ymir therefor losing the ability to turn into pure titans or inherit the power of the nine, then Zeke and Eren would be the last children of Ymir left plus the living colossal titans which should be sealed away into new walls and killed with the founders power once the walls are sealed, Zeke would die soon as he already had less than a year left leaving only Eren as the sole titan power wielder and child of Ymir. When Eren dies so too would the last true Eldian and titan powers would die with him. The world would not know that Eldians no longer exist only humans who live on Paradis once they try to use titan serum that fails or run blood tests and continually get results back they can't make sense of. Ideally by that point Eldia would be able to somewhat stand on it's own feet in the world stage and begin to make economic alliances to further their position on the world stage. Even after the King self exiled to Paradis the Marleyans used titan powers to spread war across the world preventing anyone from moving on from their terror. Once titans no longer exist in the world people can begin to move on, at least bit by bit in a way that was impossible before with Marley's warmongering. This all assuming the founder has the ability to sever Eldians from Ymir, but I don't see why not when if she can euthanize them make them resistant to a plague.
Nick K
2023-03-19 03:26:12 +0000 UTCwould stay awake for mckay any day😌
YourGirl
2023-03-19 03:19:20 +0000 UTC34:06-34:13 best 7 seconds of my life😩🤧🥰
YourGirl
2023-03-19 03:18:23 +0000 UTCThe founder probably can’t do that, but even if he/she could I doubt the hate would just suddenly end. It’s borne of 2000 years of injustice and then propaganda, and that can’t be washed away for a lot of people.
ssj4rit
2023-03-19 03:10:03 +0000 UTCAssuming they post the whole next week's episodes early to patreons, we should expect more today. Does anyone remember what time zone they are in? If it's pacific time there's still time for another batch.
David Herrera
2023-03-19 03:05:46 +0000 UTCI have a silly question, I'm not sure if this has already been answered but what makes Eldians turn into titans? And I'm not asking about the spinal fluid but what exactly is so especial about Eldians that they have the ability to turn into titans? Is it in their blood? Can the founding titan somehow change their DNA so they can't transform anymore? Seems like a very easy solution so I am assuming there must be a very good answer to it?
Melizé
2023-03-19 03:00:07 +0000 UTCEdit to my other comment: if you don't preheat you will probably end up with cold tendies at a certain point. If you shove them in without preheating you will wait longer. Cut the biggest tendie open at the center if you are not sure and check its temperature. Source: tendie expert
Z Rhoads
2023-03-19 02:01:36 +0000 UTCI will for sure reheat. I've been sucking on them cold to tease the flavor since 2 hours ago and I'm still doing that waiting for any drop. They're soaking wet from my saliva
Kim555
2023-03-19 01:59:17 +0000 UTCEat the tendies don't let them get cold. Otherwise wait and reheat in preheated oven at 275-300 F for 20 mins or so when the episode drops.
Z Rhoads
2023-03-19 01:56:41 +0000 UTCShould we expect episodes tonight?
Lambert Lasnier
2023-03-19 01:43:55 +0000 UTCDefinitely team Jeagerist on this. I believe in his cause 100%. I'm also team Cpt Levi, as in killing Zeke.
Colton Leadbetter
2023-03-19 01:38:11 +0000 UTCOh I’m dying but I’m holding on to my tendies
Kim555
2023-03-19 01:21:19 +0000 UTCi hope so but it’s not looking likely 💀 enjoy your tenders
Xeons
2023-03-19 01:16:46 +0000 UTCFor all the people who did not catch on to it here is a little detail check the title of episode 1 and episode 80 https://twitter.com/aotdaiiy/status/1487899655572701187?s=46&t=Z0jzu1wVarnZxIf0ZVL9xw
Otis Sado
2023-03-19 01:09:54 +0000 UTCFirst, I'm not justifying anything. Genocide is wrong. Small scale rumbling is wrong. You can't compare real life scenarios to fantasy. Are the us citizens or japanese capable of turning into man eating or other kinds of supernatural titans? This shows racism isn't the same as real life's. It's based on the fear of the supernatural. They view eldians as literal monsters, devils. And hell, they CAN turn into monsters, they have valid reasons for viewing them as such. It wouldn't be the same as what happened in WWII because the context is far more different, the circumstances extremely different, and you are thinking along the lines of real life, analising from that perspective. I'm not saying it's completely irrational that with a lof of work the world's view on eldian could slightly shift, but realistically I find it hard to believe anyone who viewed eldians as monsters would ever change that view after seeing a small scale rumbling; thousand of titans 50m tall burning and crushing people alive. Imo taking into consideration the shows themes, the racism, the hate, the fear and supernatural aspect, after a small scale rumbling the most likely scenario is whenever they could they would try to eradicate the eldians.
Jan Lepp
2023-03-19 01:08:04 +0000 UTCMy stomach is gurgling HELP
Kim555
2023-03-19 01:01:44 +0000 UTCIf Eren only kills the alliance and not the other people then the other countries will hold a grudge. There is no way that the other countries will forgive him, so Eren has to kill them all. And there is no way that Eren can’t kill the alliance because the alliance will always come for the Eldians. If they just used the Rulbling for defence then they would have to pass down the founding Titan and have historia pump out babies and no one wants that. Also there is no guarantee that the future founding titans won’t just do the same thing Eren is doing
Speedwagon
2023-03-19 00:50:17 +0000 UTCExactly. Real life, with real life circumstances. Taking into consideration this shows context and circumstances I have my doubts (and lots of them) about AoT world coming around their super intense fear and hatred of eldians. And in the scenario I was talking about (a small scale rumbling), do you really think a person that saw literal titans 50m tall crushing and burning thousands of people alive would change their view on the people that made it happen (add to that said people after doing that said 'hey let's have peace or we are going to do that again)? Nukes are horrifying, but imo there is also an aspect of terror in the supernatural aspect of thousands of giants crushing poeple that makes it more frightening (and thus, more difficult to forget and forgive). You have to think that it's not racism because of skin color or any other reason our real world has had; eldians are a race with supernatural powers that can turn into man eating and other kinds of terrifying titans. That is a key aspect into my view of not thinking the world would turn around their view on eldians in 50 years (and even more difficult with the small scale rumbling scenario). It's not the same racism as in real life.
Jan Lepp
2023-03-19 00:49:29 +0000 UTCI completely agree with you. I’m on aot twitter and have seen some truly atrocious things. But despite having issues with the dialogue and pacing, I’ve seen a lot of people choose to engage in a positive matter instead of wasting time nitpicking every insignificant thing just to find things to be mad about. Makes me feel a little bit better about this fandom
Rae
2023-03-19 00:43:35 +0000 UTCYou're not exactly right about one thing. You have no way of knowing the world will not change how Eldians are viewed. There is no possible way to know that 100% for certain.
metalgearbear
2023-03-19 00:29:51 +0000 UTCI got chicken tinders but idk if I should eat them or wait until something drops. Is there anything dropping within an hour 😭?
Kim555
2023-03-19 00:27:49 +0000 UTC@Mitchelle, very good point. Japan vs. US in WW2 is nearly very alike to Marley vs Paradis.
metalgearbear
2023-03-19 00:23:07 +0000 UTCFor sure. When I say Naruto is my favourite anime, I definitely mean sans filler. And I also mean including Shippuden but not including Boruto lmao.
Thuy aka EroSennin
2023-03-19 00:22:39 +0000 UTCLove Naruto too, the only thing I hate about it is the filler episodes…
Lux Omnia Vincit
2023-03-19 00:21:19 +0000 UTC@Coco, wow there's no need to be rude and call someone a name.
metalgearbear
2023-03-19 00:21:06 +0000 UTC@nomorepartiezz you are my wordsmith, everything you say is what I'm thinking put into the best possible wording lol
metalgearbear
2023-03-19 00:09:01 +0000 UTC@nomorepartiezz very well said. There is no justification to either side wanting to wipe out the other or for Paradis to be going forward with genocide to the world. I've seen some comments about how civil war could break out within Paradis but that that "could be solved with conversation." What is that copium?? Civil war can be solved through conversation but nothing else can? Path to peace (or as close to peace) is certainly more difficult, takes time, and has risks. But that's what makes us better humans, able to understand each other, and avoid repeating the mistakes of the past. It means we won't be giving into wonton destruction anytime a group gets slighted. It's not okay that people hate Eldians, but it will benefit everyone to remove that discrimination as much as possible.
metalgearbear
2023-03-19 00:04:58 +0000 UTCYes, i find the "eren did nothing wrong" take bizarre too because he absoluetely did many things wrong lmao, in that sense I agree with you, that's a very immature and unintelligent way to view things. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Eren's actions are objectively bad, it just depends on whether you can agree with his reasoning behind it i suppose. Or just find a way to legitimize it at least. I just found that many people on amazing platforms like twitter like to praise Isayama, never even considering he might have made mistakes, that's why I added that bit. But also there is the other side, who like to bash him and call him names, which is the other end of the spectrum I cannot agree with
anna
2023-03-19 00:03:28 +0000 UTCI was speaking in general terms and not directing what I said to any one person in particular. My apologies. The person before said “Don't go blaming the reader for…” but I believe it’s completely valid to blame the viewers which is why I said what I said. I should’ve been more clear. But from being in this fandom and seeing some truly bewildering takes such as “Eren did nothing wrong” and some viewers expressing disturbing nationalistic sentiments, I think my statement isn’t entirely untrue. And that’s not to say Isayama is a perfect writer because he absolutely isn’t. He definitely could’ve fleshed things out more but because he wanted to end the series on a specific number, the last arc was indeed rushed.
Rae
2023-03-18 23:53:34 +0000 UTC@nomorerepartiezz yesss!! I especially love those themes in the 2003 version of the anime. It's so thought provoking throughout the entire show and really puts so many characters in spots of making hard choices about themselves or the world around them.
metalgearbear
2023-03-18 23:51:47 +0000 UTCInitially no but considering that damn near EVERYONE on Marley was excited that all the countries were uniting together to attack paradise and wanted everyone on the El island to die as you saw during there festival and the meeting they attended when they visited Marley so they would’ve decided the same thing as well if they had the power to make the choice so that one point is still relevant
Philbo
2023-03-18 23:50:03 +0000 UTC"If you realistically think 30-40-50 years can change the amount of hatred and fear people has on a race that can transform into titans and kill them you have way more faith on humanity than I do." It's happened before in real life. You will never eradicate racism, but you can lessen it substantially over time. It's more difficult and takes longer and has risks, of course. In your scenario above you're not even giving it a chance or trying to think more critically about it as an option. Your "lack" of faith in humanity does not mean everyone shares that or thinks it is correct. Gabi has already show her ability to come around. So has Falco, even the Warriors. And as the upcoming episodes will show, more people can be influenced to change their beliefs. It is completely an option, but people are more excited about killing innocent billions of people (who may not even share the same hatred for Eldians).
metalgearbear
2023-03-18 23:49:08 +0000 UTCAnd this is possible, but nobody apparently wants to entertain it because they think the situation is "black/white". It's not black/white, it's extremely nuanced but it's so much easier and less thinking involved for someone to say "genocide is wrong but Eren is still right." Like what? Have some more cognitive dissonance. As the upcoming episodes will show, path to peace is possible. I don't get why a lot of people want to act like it's not an option. It is an option it's just more difficult and there's a reason that it is.
metalgearbear
2023-03-18 23:43:28 +0000 UTCIf you are interested in time travel, go watch Steins Gate :)
Neltran
2023-03-18 23:38:32 +0000 UTCI see your point. I guess it comes down to interpretation. On the one hand, “saving the world” could just mean ensuring the full Rumbling never happens. In that regard, it makes sense since Zeke’s plan literally takes away the ability for the wall titans to ever be used by anyone (atleast from his perspective). Or for titans to ever cause a problem and almost decimate and enslave the world as they supposedly for thousands of years. They are “saving the world” from one threat, and leaving the world to its own devices. Even then, I’m not sure he’s suggesting his plan will suddenly make all of humanity live in la la land together. Obviously other nations will fight and all, it’s dumb to think there can ever be world peace tbh with all the greed and anger and hate in their world (and even our world). But at that point I’m pretty sure Zeke just cares about ending Eldian suffering, and once that’s done, well, he won’t be alive to care anymore about the world. Also sorry if I came across as abrasive, I say “bruh” a lot lol
ssj4rit
2023-03-18 23:34:48 +0000 UTCLove the discussion of the time travel paradox that has literally been debated since time travel was first contemplated lol
OG Phat1
2023-03-18 23:33:37 +0000 UTCEnding the cycle of hatred against Eldians, not in the entire world. That's my understanding of that line. It would save the world from titans, but he cannot save humans from themselves. If they want to kill each other anyway, it's not withing their control anymore, they have riffles, go ahead. But what Zeke thought he could actually do is to solve the Titan issue and stop Eldians from suffering.
anna
2023-03-18 23:30:58 +0000 UTCAs he should! We stand by our man 🤣
tskjn
2023-03-18 23:27:44 +0000 UTCThey were ineffective against them because an entire army of colossals arrived, not because they cannot take them down. It did show cannons hitting a few Titans, but taking down a couple dozen didn't do much because literally thousands came swimming. If they had only used the titans from around Shiganshina, they would have done a significant damage before getting eventually taken down. They couldn't have taken out the ENTIRE military. Even if they did, it would have given them like what, 10 years tops. Hardly enough. I just think that there are many faults here in the story and to me it felt rushed. It's indeed not realistic that there were no other options. But if the author did not present ANY then you cannot do much about it, it lacked development. Isayama's brilliand and an excellent storyteller, yes, but even he could have made mistakes writing this part. The pressure gotta be huge, considering AOT's popularity. BUT this entire discussion about whether Eren was right or wrong does prove the story's point and there probably cannot be an agreement. But please don't start dropping insults like "lacking intellectual maturity" because I don't think anyone accused you of not being in possession of that so you should try not doing that either:)
anna
2023-03-18 23:26:17 +0000 UTCHe mostly wants to end the Eldians suffering though
Nrock23
2023-03-18 23:23:02 +0000 UTCYou definitely are right about the partial rumbling and it decimating the tech that has been created. But I still believe Zeke was trying to save the world and not just end Eldians suffering. I definitely remember scenes of Zeke saying that the euthanasia plan would not only “save eldians” but would also “save the world”
Jordanxo
2023-03-18 23:13:06 +0000 UTCMy issue is that readers/viewers judge Eren's actions based on what seems moral TO THEM instead of taking into consideration the entire context of the story. Of course you are not supporting genocide, that's not what this story is trying to tell you, it's horrible and disgusting and Eren knows that and if he succeeds he probably won't be able to live with himself (i read the ending btw). BUT the way this part of the story was built up is indeed black-and-white, as "us-or-them" situation. The author did not provide any other option than the 3 which were presented. You have to disconnect the morality of Eren's actions from this world and see through the eyes of Eldiand. Let's be for real, if you were a random Eldian on Paradis constantly being afraid of getting eaten alive or bombed, you would be GLAD to have Eren rumbling away at Marley lmao. It doesn't take one to become a fascist to understand Eren and even justify it (which is not the right word because I don't mean Eren's actions are something to support or agree with, but english is not my first language so i don't know how to properly express what i want to say). There is no justification to real life war either from a moral standpoint, but here we are doing it all the time. The point is not to conclude that what Eren does is "bad" because that's not what this story was trying to present. Genocide is bad, yes, thank you. No, it's about an entire century of hate concentrated in one person, showing what years and decades of discrimination and constant conflict can possibly bring.
anna
2023-03-18 23:10:50 +0000 UTCI don’t know if anyone has said this yet, but the whole discussion of going back into time and killing your father(or grandfather) is called The Grandfather Paradox! (Thank you Umbrella Academy) Its defined this way: “ a paradox created by time travel in which a person travels back in time and changes something in their own past or the past of their own timeline, after which the resulting timeline is altered such that the future point from which the time travel began does not exist or is unrecognizable. “ The Bootstrap Paradox is more at play here though right? Wiktionary defines it this way: “A time travel paradox in which the consequences of an event in the future travel back in time and cause an event in the past or present, which in turn is among the causes of the first event, forming a causal loop in which each event is caused by the other.” Cannon and Carter are pointing out that Grisha couldn’t have killed the Reiss family and taken the Founding Titan if Zeke hadn’t brought Eren into his memories. In turn, Eren could not have traveled in Zekes memories if Grisha hadn’t taken the Founding Titan. Thus, a causal loop is created. The future affects the past which creates the future. The snake jazz episode of Rick and Morty offer a lot of examples of this too! Watching and listening to all of you debate and discuss the morality issues that are beginning to arise (and that split this fan base HARD sometimes ) is such a joy to watch! All of you are so so wholesome and seeing your passionate discussions gets me so pumped up and warms my heart at the same time :)
Kaysie Kaufman
2023-03-18 23:10:20 +0000 UTCBruh if they used a partial rumbling to cripple the worlds’ militaries it doesn’t matter if they might make better tech, they’d still have to take decades to recover and get back to a point where they can make the tech again. Also Zeke didn’t care about world peace, he just wanted Eldian suffering to end. He couldn’t give a shit what the world does after they’re gone, they can kill each other for all he cares.
ssj4rit
2023-03-18 23:08:02 +0000 UTC@Veeti S Of course Marley wouldn’t just sit around and do nothing but an entire global fleet was completely ineffective against the colossals in Dawn of Humanity so I highly doubt they could be stopped. I still think Armin’s plan to take out Marley and other military forces would’ve been a better choice than leveling the whole world. And it’s not Isayama’s fault his viewers lack emotional and intellectual maturity.
Rae
2023-03-18 23:06:08 +0000 UTCi do believe in the scenes of Zeke and Yelena explaining their plan at some point one of them say “this will end the cycle of hatred” or something along those lines. Eren also in the end of season 4 when trying to convince Ymir to let go, he said that he’d “end it” which i had and kinda still do assume that is referring also to the cycle of hate. But I do totally get what you are saying, there is really no winning for anyone in this situation and that is the beauty of this story.
Jordanxo
2023-03-18 23:06:07 +0000 UTCI don't think world peace was their goal, they just wanted to free Eldia and save the world from being trampled or eaten alive. Eren wanted his people to be able to live beyond the island, and Zeke wanted them to go out peacfully by not causing anyone harm. Because he considered not being born a salvation (
anna
2023-03-18 23:01:59 +0000 UTC@Jan this is why i say use the partial rumbling and then take advantage of that time to work with the azumabito to catch up or even surpass modern technology. the azumabito have already shown themselves to be the most cooperative and helpful country to paradis, and are the main ones helping them modernize. of course this is because they want Paradis’ resources but thats why you offer some resources to them in exchange for an alliance and the promise of working together to develop.
nomorepartiezz
2023-03-18 22:58:51 +0000 UTCthis is why i wanted you guys to watch FMA Brotherhood after this lol 😅 it almost feels like a mixture of Season 4 of AOT and Avatar the Last Airbender. The power system and story deals with a lot of philosophical questions such as religion vs science. The alchemy system is based on the law of equivalent exchange and one of the core themes/questions is “what could equal the value of a human soul?”
nomorepartiezz
2023-03-18 22:55:42 +0000 UTCthe world only declared war on paradis because willy tybur used Eren as a scary bogeyman who was coming to wipe out the entire world. and he literally played into that for his own selfish goals.
nomorepartiezz
2023-03-18 22:51:39 +0000 UTCfacts. i refuse to believe there isnt a middle ground between “obliterate 99% of the planet” and “do nothing while Marley massacres you.” EREN himself feels like he has no options for HIS own goal- which is to secure peace of mind that his friends will be safe before he dies and to achieve his childhood vision of freedom which is there being a blank slate beyond the walls. That does not mean there weren’t other options overall. Idk why people say that
nomorepartiezz
2023-03-18 22:48:55 +0000 UTCits more interesting with differing opinions
nomorepartiezz
2023-03-18 22:44:19 +0000 UTCas he should
Jack McKee
2023-03-18 22:41:22 +0000 UTCi just find it so crazy that Zeke and Eren both think their plans could “end the cycle of hate” like they have any control of it. Zekes plan is dumb because if the Eldians can’t have children and slowly die out, then yea, titan problem solved. But with the military advancements the show portrays, and how it’s growing so rapidly that Titans are starting to even become weak in comparison to the weapons humanity creates, i think it’s foolish for Zeke to think that killing all the titan shifters is going to just magically make world peace happen (especially cause Marley literally were already fighting with another nation that wasn’t Eldia for more land/power)
Jordanxo
2023-03-18 22:33:11 +0000 UTCI can understand saying that there are inherent alternatives that weren't necessarily directly presented, but I feel like there wasn't even that much established to even widen the potential of that. Also as far as the decisions between The Rumbling and Euthanization for Eren and Zeke. I feel like if you consider that the potential of the world attacking Paradis being high in the result of Zeke's plan then couldn't you see it as an "us or them" scenario?
abc213
2023-03-18 22:30:35 +0000 UTCWithout spoiling anything, by the end of the show you'll see why a small scale rumbling doesn't work. Eren only had one option
Flare
2023-03-18 22:23:58 +0000 UTCthere wasn't very much nuance established towards the conflict in my opinion, why would you say otherwise? Genuinely asking haha. I love AOT but that's always been one my gripes with the plot.
abc213
2023-03-18 22:19:34 +0000 UTC🐐 🐐 🐐 🐐 🐐
abc213
2023-03-18 22:16:09 +0000 UTCIt would be awesome if studio gek had a discord server. Patreon really sucks for keeping the conversation going
__JMN
2023-03-18 22:12:42 +0000 UTCThank you 😊 I will keep commenting more!
__JMN
2023-03-18 22:10:56 +0000 UTCThanks mate!
__JMN
2023-03-18 22:10:35 +0000 UTCAre we getting more episodes today or tomorrow?? What are looking at for this Saturday & Sunday
aotant
2023-03-18 22:06:50 +0000 UTCBRIGG! I love you explaining but also kind of pitching Naruto too and I SEE YOU FELLOW NARUTO FANBOY.
Thuy aka EroSennin
2023-03-18 22:06:17 +0000 UTCThis is the correct (imo) take. Eren is doing to the world exactly what the world was doing to Paradis on a devastating scale. A huge part of the argument for Paradis island is that they had no way of knowing their ancestors' sins because they had their memory erased. This logic applies exactly the same way to the children that Eren is genociding. Were they not also born into that world? He even says that there are good people on the other side. Understanding Eren's motivations? Absolutely. Condoning mass extinction? Absolutely not. To bring up the WWII comparison again. Was N*zi Germany wrong for the Holocaust? Absolutely, 1000%. Would that justify nuking every last German regardless of if they didn't agree with N*zism? Of course not.
Driscollis
2023-03-18 22:05:17 +0000 UTCInnocent civilians and children weren't behind those decisions to attack the island or the walls. Your point is irrelevant.
Berndelta
2023-03-18 22:02:37 +0000 UTCit's not even about what's more ethical or justifiable anymore at that point. I love AOT but it seems like it sort of lazily tries to paint the picture of there being no alternative for the racial conflict happening in the story and so that's the basis for the events that happen without establishing that much nuance. It seems like the point to me is that Paradis would have potentially been wiped out eventually the exact same way had eren not started the rumbling. He only has like a few more years to live, what was he supposed to do in that context aside from just let them almost definitely get murdered? I'm really not saying it isn't f'd up but I'm just saying it can be viewed from a "them vs us" standpoint imo, because the threat of the world for them would have been imminent.
abc213
2023-03-18 22:01:28 +0000 UTCIt's one thing to understand the reasoning behind Eren's actions, but there is NO justification for them. Not with genocide killing all of those innocent civilians. It's easy to say "the entire world is against Paradis and wants them dead" but there's no conglomerate that just decides this. "The world" is millions or billions of individual people who don't have any say in what their leadership does. They just want to live their lives but they'll be brutally murdered over something they had no part in. We can understand WHY Eren is doing these things but I can never support him.
Berndelta
2023-03-18 21:59:27 +0000 UTCZeke's plan wouldn't have even guaranteed their safety anyway. Objectively all it is is self punishment there's not even a guarantee that the eldians wouldn't be persecuted against regardless and even that the rest of the world would have stopped their plan to commit genocide against Paradis Island
abc213
2023-03-18 21:48:21 +0000 UTC"He could've just wiped out the military" yeah right lmao as if Marley would just kick up their feet and do nothing as a bunch of colossal titans approach. Hange alone took out multiple colossal titans, a partial rumbling would not succeed. Don't go blaming the reader for Isayama literally failing to depict the story he wanted to. You can come up with all kinds of reasoning for why anything other than the full rumbling was the correct choice but those reasons are absolutely not present in the narrative.
Veeti S
2023-03-18 21:47:44 +0000 UTCIt was through her heart not her nape
Beanssss
2023-03-18 21:32:21 +0000 UTCI think cannon is the only one that gets it yet everyone confuse him more 😂😂😂 Yes technically grisha stealing the power (because eren influenced him) happened BECAUSE Zeke let eren visit their memories 😅 which is what we saw recently and thats why eren told him i was able to do this because you let me travel in my dad’s memory 👏🏻🔥
Fatema alrowaiei
2023-03-18 21:18:43 +0000 UTCI'm with Carter completely. Love Eren, gotta stick with my boy. The latter half of the season gives Eren so much more humanity than all the seasons prior.
Sweetcheeks
2023-03-18 21:12:11 +0000 UTCIm with you…As if ppl forgot how many innocent ppl died in Paradis , how many scouts died in those 157 expeditions how many (titans/humans) were killed because of this….. And come on as if someone wouldnt do everything in their power to protect their own family 🙂the problem in this show its isnt just marley … its actually the entire world which sucks 🌝
Fatema alrowaiei
2023-03-18 21:06:36 +0000 UTCI love you carter 😍 Yess it either kill or be killed the only problem in this world (AOT) is that the entire WORLD is the enemy to paradis its not just marley 🌝
Fatema alrowaiei
2023-03-18 20:54:11 +0000 UTCI don't see how you can compare Eren and Zeke's plan. Zeke's plan is letting a race slowly die by removing their ability to reproduce; Eren's plan is to violently murder billions of people. It's not AT ALL on the same scale of fucked up.
Pascale Paquin
2023-03-18 20:50:11 +0000 UTCYeah. Imo Eren literally "lost it" and is in no position to have made a rational decision any longer, thus resorting to these extreme measures. We even see him being FOR the small scale rumbling at first, but as time went on and he kept seeing the memories of the future not changing he just went with them and discarded any hope for a better way.
long ass username
2023-03-18 20:48:30 +0000 UTCWere in my comment have I justified genocide? I have stated that genocide is just plain wrong, in a milion scale or on a bilion scale. The amount of lives, dreams and hopes both options end is impossible to comprehend. It's horrible. I just said that people make it like there are other easy solutions that don't involve violence... and they are not realistic to me. Zeke's plan is less horrifying, I agree, but it is still wrong. Now we are quantifying the amount of 'wrongness' but wrong is still wrong.
Jan Lepp
2023-03-18 20:44:38 +0000 UTCThere is no justifying genocide. Are u being fr rn? It’s one thing to understand Erens position and thought process, which is justified based on what he and his people went through. That still doesn’t make it any less horrible. Zekes plan is literally the better way to go no matter how we look at it. All those eldians didn’t deserve to die, but literally wiping out the ENTIRE world is better HOW exactly?
long ass username
2023-03-18 20:39:52 +0000 UTCcannon made a good point saying he could just show them the rumbling and the other nations wouldnt attack. but after 100 years they could wipe Paradis if other nations advance their technology or somehow get hold of the founding titan power so its no right way to go about this plan. the nations will only agree not to attack because they are inferior but once they feel superior again they will attack Paradis. when marley told the warriors to see what was happening in Paradis they believed Paradis had the founding power with royal blood but wanted to see how the king would react. even though the king told marley not to attack Paradis ages ago or he'd release the rumbling, marley attacked because they believed they had the upper hand since they started to advance.
Lag Sold
2023-03-18 20:37:47 +0000 UTCOh no Carter is a "Eren does nothing wrong" believer 💀😂
long ass username
2023-03-18 20:37:41 +0000 UTCThings Eren forsure saw when he kissed Historia's hand - The Rumbling in Marely - Going into Grisha's Memories with Zeke and convincing his father to kill - Sasha's Death (That's why he asked Connie what her final words were)
Jawrool
2023-03-18 20:35:11 +0000 UTCIt's been reported that Isayama had said that Eren represents the worst part of himself, and I don't think it was ever intended to have Eren as some of kind hero in this story.
James
2023-03-18 20:29:03 +0000 UTC@Studio Gek Except I did call some of the opinions wrong. God's laws decide what is right and wrong. We don't get to change it based on our "lived experience" or moral relativism as the current world claims. Evil is evil and good is good.
Mitchell Clark
2023-03-18 20:28:51 +0000 UTC@Jan Lepp So to compare it to the real world, and based on your assertions, why didn't we (being the USA) just nuke the entirety of Japan and Germany during WWll? Was there a way to know they'd surrender after the 2 nukes? Why take the risk? And yet guess what happened? We did retaliate against Japan, in a strong manner but not by decimating the entire island nation, and now they've become one of the greatest allies of the US. I disagree strongly with you. As I stated, the story has already implied that the founder has the ability to remove the titan power. Meaning, if the imminent threat is extinguished (the military alliance) then there a chance to end the conflict and end people's reasons for fearing Eldians by removing titan powers altogether. I will never justify the mass slaughter of innocents. It is wrong, and I will freely state that those who seek to justify it are also wrong, even if this is a work of fiction. And by the way, I'm not justifying Marley either. They were also wrong. Evil is evil. But what I'm getting at is that if you destroy the military alliance that was poised to attack the island, you are getting rid of the immediate threat AND keeping the rest of the walls as some form of defense for a while. Clearly the nation's involved would struggle to understand this, I mean look at our real world history, and yet there are ways to stabilize things if people are willing to change. In our own world, do you think things are much different? Do you think wars will ever truly end? Does that justify any nation in going scorched-earth and just leveling the entire planet in order to "stop war"? No.
Mitchell Clark
2023-03-18 20:27:28 +0000 UTCJapan declared war on the United States with the attack on Pearl Harbor, and were allies with the Nazis. Imagine Japan being Marley in this case where they felt threatened by the US, and decided to defend themselves. Now, imagine the US having colossal titans (atomic bombs), and decided to apply just enough force to end the war and saved a projected 2 million lives on all sides. My point isn't that the whole world hated the US, it's that the US responded with composure and without extreme hatred for the Japanese people. Eren has changed a lot, and he is not in his right state of mind (is this coming from who has dated a girl with schizoaffectice disorder who went off her meds). If you ever study history or literature, then you'll know that hatred can blind someone's judgment, can alienate you from others, and sink you into a deep hole that is difficult to escape from.
James
2023-03-18 20:24:27 +0000 UTCnot saying anything but just watch the end credits when you watch episode 23
Arun Randhawa
2023-03-18 20:18:06 +0000 UTCnah im with you on this as well. Eren did the only thing he could do to save his people and his friends. They tried peace talks and it didn't work, Eren did nothing wrong.
Arun Randhawa
2023-03-18 20:15:14 +0000 UTCYeah, when Eren kisses Historia's hand he witnesses the entire event. It's pretty much the point in the story where Eren learns the Attack Titan's true power
Alex Ramirez
2023-03-18 20:15:00 +0000 UTCBut how do you end the cycle of hate? If Eldians dominate the world, they are going to fight each other which has already happened in the Great Titan War.
James
2023-03-18 20:14:08 +0000 UTCI'm rooting for Team Hange (or Team Armin) where we can all coexist in this world and end this cycle of hate.
James
2023-03-18 20:12:54 +0000 UTCIt’s like Erwin said imo. Humanity won’t stop fighting until only 1 person remains lol
ssj4rit
2023-03-18 19:58:13 +0000 UTCI really think a lot of you here are not really taking into consideration the context this fantasy takes place in. A lof you say Armin's plan (small scale rumbling) is the solution. So, you really think people around the world, who hate the eldians and now know and some have witnessed the horror and terror of what a small proportion of the rumbling is (so up the fear and horror tenfold) when they have the chance (meaning the tech, only a few decades later they will have access to nukes taking into consideration AoT takes places more or less in WWI) they won't just eradicate them? Why not? What is stopping them? Eldians could unleash hell on Earth on any given time. And these people hate and fear them (with reason, a.k.a small scale rumbling). If you realistically think 30-40-50 years can change the amount of hatred and fear people has on a race that can transform into titans and kill them you have way more faith on humanity than I do. For me this story talks about human nature and conflict and masterfully sets up a circumstance that leads up to genocide on one end or the other. To wrong or wrong. No right. Just choosing, and what reasoning drives you to choose one or the other.
Jan Lepp
2023-03-18 19:57:45 +0000 UTCThe classic sociology question. At what point does the value of a human life change. There is no correct answer
Studio Geck
2023-03-18 19:54:42 +0000 UTC😂
Studio Geck
2023-03-18 19:52:22 +0000 UTCJan asking the good questions here, and i truly dont think there is an answer
Studio Geck
2023-03-18 19:52:00 +0000 UTCWow that is insane
Studio Geck
2023-03-18 19:50:05 +0000 UTCThis is why i love this show, so many differing opinions and you cant really call any of them "wrong"
Studio Geck
2023-03-18 19:49:49 +0000 UTCI love reading your comments, they always fascinate me 😊
Janey
2023-03-18 19:44:31 +0000 UTCWhat is stopping the rest of the world from destroying Paradis with modern tech a few decades after? Specially a place that holds the power to unleash an apocalypse, and people you hate and fear with a passion?
Jan Lepp
2023-03-18 19:44:23 +0000 UTCParadis was already backed into a corner. Regardless of the raid on Liberio, Marley was planning on going back to Paradis and taking the Founding. Literally the first episodes of Season 4 people.
Jan Lepp
2023-03-18 19:37:43 +0000 UTCHAHA yo this was a wild dream I love it
Studio Geck
2023-03-18 19:26:38 +0000 UTCIt's not that simple. Thing is, here it's either kill or be killed. What Eren is doing isn't justifiable, but to eradicate a whole race out of fear and hatred is jusy as wrong. None of it is justifiable, it's just tragic and sad. And you aren't taking into consideration the context they are in. If Eren did that, destroyed the military and went home (which would be horrifying) what do you think would happen then? They would sign a peace treaty and everybody would go home an be happy? No more eldian persecution and fear? Do you remember what is stated just at the beggining of Season 4? Technology has caught up to the Titan's power. Do you honestly think that 30 or 40 years later when they have the technology they wouldn't just nuke Paradis? Why wouldn't they? Eldians would still be monsters in their eyes, even more than before after watching the small scale rumbling on the military you are proposing. They would have now the upper hand, Eldia's Rumbling would not be a threat anymore and they would end a potential world apocalypse (and all that fueled by extreme hate). A small scale rumbling only postpones eldians genocide. I have yet to see someone give a credible and well thought solution to this problem taking into consideration the context our characters are in when Paradis finds out about the rest of the world (the flashbacks of Season 4, some months after Eren kisses Historia's hand).
Jan Lepp
2023-03-18 19:22:15 +0000 UTCYep. Also Steins;Gate is such a masterpiece.
Z Rhoads
2023-03-18 19:14:24 +0000 UTCAdd Muv-Luv too which Isayama said that it inspired him to write AoT. I started watching it lately, it's a good anime. But the greatest anime that shows multi-verse is Higurashi: When they cry. I'm obsessed with this anime. You should definitely watch it. If by the theory you mean AnR then you don't have to understand it. Delusional people made that up and their theories get bombed by Isayama& Mappa constantly.
T. Law
2023-03-18 19:10:44 +0000 UTC@anna The story does show instances of that black-and-white mentality, but it has also shown countless times how that way of thinking is wrong and destructive whether it be Marley toward the Eldians or the jaegerists toward the world. I think it's unambiguous in showing the horrors of prejudice, dehumanization, the "us vs them" mentality, etc. Even though he had not-so-great options, he still had options that were better than omniciding the world but that's just my opinion. We'll just agree to disagree.
Rae
2023-03-18 19:09:01 +0000 UTCYeah I don’t understand why some people think time can be changed or there are branching timelines like Steins Gate in AoT. It’s a single timeline, the ink is dry. Eren tries to change things but it was always meant to be that way
ssj4rit
2023-03-18 19:06:42 +0000 UTCI feel like she honestly just lost the will to live and gave up
johnny
2023-03-18 19:03:06 +0000 UTCDon’t know if anyone has said this yet but when grisha hugs zeke he says “aishiteru” which means I love you in Japanese. It is incredibly uncommon for them to use this phrase and usually say “daisuki” which is similar but more along the lines of I’m very fond of you/ I like you a lot. From what I understand aishiteru isn’t even used between parents and children or spouses very frequently. Really shows the impact of the moment.
Harrison Jay
2023-03-18 18:56:33 +0000 UTCThe key to understanding Ymir's character is to understand Historia's character. Historia's childhood, her relationship with Ymir, her relationship with her father, etc. They are very similar people
Jag_227
2023-03-18 18:50:17 +0000 UTCOh damn good point. I was going right to bed and for sure did not think through it enough. Hope we get an answer to this one day w the manga or smth but who knows. It’s funny that this is only maybe a plot hole but there are viable explanations that would cover it. What a great story.
meta angel
2023-03-18 18:48:41 +0000 UTCStill team Eren. Like honestly the main reason hes doing what hes doing is bc he knows he only has less than 4 years to make sure Paradis is safe before he passes on, he says hes not willing to leave their future to fate. And Eren is in a really rare situation where he has the founder and someone with royal blood who is a titan and willing to work with him. So he has to act now, He also doesn't wanna do the 50 year rumbling plan bc that would mean sacrificing Historia and hes not gonna allow that and he wont know if they'll be safe or not bc he'll be long dead.
Brandon
2023-03-18 18:47:26 +0000 UTCIn the beginning i’m pretty sure you were both right since zeke’s idea of liberation is to never have been born which also frees the rest of the world from titans
Bhen
2023-03-18 18:47:09 +0000 UTCThe back and forth between Cannon and Carter post-episode was so funny 😂
Jag_227
2023-03-18 18:34:58 +0000 UTCThe power of the titans requires the will to transform. So, whenever, one of Ymir's descendants has the will to transform, Ymir obeys and slaves away to build them a body. She had to build the millions of titans for the walls herself. Imagine that.
Jag_227
2023-03-18 18:25:59 +0000 UTCYour post ep discussion was great! The fact that y’all could even articulate words and have a thoughtful discussion was way more than I was capable of after this ep lol
Golden Mama
2023-03-18 18:22:48 +0000 UTCYmir killed by a spear to the nape
Jag_227
2023-03-18 18:21:53 +0000 UTC@bloosmoke or if it’s multi-verse there are now two different parallel timelines 🤯
Golden Mama
2023-03-18 18:20:24 +0000 UTCthe eldians on paradise island have always been living like that tho, they thought they were the only race because their memories were wiped out. if all of the eldians agreed with eren and didn’t stop him from destroying all of mankind beyond the walls, they wouldn’t have to worry about being attacked by anyone else ever again
Jayden m
2023-03-18 18:20:19 +0000 UTCJack is so quiet but whenever he speaks I always agree with his takes
Golden Mama
2023-03-18 18:19:13 +0000 UTCYes and also multi-verse like the Cell saga in dbz. Multi-verse theory breaks my brain, I’m not smart enough lol
Golden Mama
2023-03-18 18:18:10 +0000 UTCThe time travel discussion about brig killing his dad has me 💀
Golden Mama
2023-03-18 18:16:00 +0000 UTCYour dad watching this is like: :o
jblakk
2023-03-18 18:13:22 +0000 UTCit’s probably already been said, but the only way to get rid of the 9 is the euthanization plan because if eldians can reproduce the 9 will always continue. we know that if one of the 9 is killed without their power being tranferred through being eaten by another titan, that power will be born to a random eldian child. so there is no way to get rid of the 9 without preventing eldians as a whole from reproducing.
cassie bees
2023-03-18 18:12:32 +0000 UTCI enjoyed the thoughtful discussion and theories, I appreciate how y’all get hype for the action parts and also talk about the bigger themes
Golden Mama
2023-03-18 18:04:57 +0000 UTCI agree. Aramin had a good solution. Just show them how powerful Paradise is by using a sample of the rumbling so other countries will respect you. Also not everyone is an enemy outside the walls we got Hiziru and people like the volunteers that are clearly with paradise.
HMK
2023-03-18 17:54:48 +0000 UTCWorld Peace is a fabrication of mutual assured destruction between world powers.
Tim Moore
2023-03-18 17:52:28 +0000 UTCWhat's clear to me is that there are no good options. I think Eren simply went with the option that he could secure with his own two hands in the limited time that he has left to live. To Eren's mind, any other solution would only be temporary...and once he dies he would no longer be around to fix things.
Lee Brooks
2023-03-18 17:49:46 +0000 UTCIm not implying that all wars will stop forever, but right now we have no ability to settle this peacefully. If the rest of the world didnt want to kill all eldians then there wouldn't be a conversation here. Im not arguing that eldians survival is the lesser of two evils but i understand that eldians practice self defence instead of submitting to being killed.
sesaka
2023-03-18 17:42:20 +0000 UTCYmir choice death she has been used like a weapon for him all she wanted some love in return because she loved him and he never.
Luma
2023-03-18 17:40:32 +0000 UTCSymbolism that I love: 1. When Ymir's fellow slaves sell her out to the Eldian King (for letting the pig escape) there are 13 outstretched arms pointing at her which represents the 13 years of the "Curse of Ymir". 2. When Ymir is running for her life (after the a king says that she's "free" ) she falls down; while on the ground, she sees a 9-petal flower splattered with blood 🩸right next to her. One petal for each one of the 9 titans. I believe the blood stands for the blood sacrifice that must be made every time one of the 9 titan shifters transform.
Lee Brooks
2023-03-18 17:33:25 +0000 UTCI don't think Eren was ever fighting for world peace or ending the cycle of hatred. The way I see it, he wanted to earn the right for him and his people to be free and be able to explore the world instead of living behind walls. I don't think he cares whether a civil war erupts on the island following the rumbling because hatred and conflict is part of human nature and he probably knows he cannot do anything about it. Whatever other options they had still restricted his freedom, something which he couldn't have accepted. He wanted to bury the civilization that made them the devils. The show started with the entirety of humanity beyond the walls being extinct, might as well go a full circle...
anna
2023-03-18 17:29:10 +0000 UTCbut you gotta think though, thats how theyve been living there entire lives and when humanity was discovered outside the walls, come to find out that everyone hates them lol so honestly yes they would
Philbo
2023-03-18 17:26:00 +0000 UTCIt might seem like a rigid, binary way but it's kind of what the story boiled down to. I don't know if you are a manga reader or not so I don't want to go into details (especially for the sake of the guys, no need to spoil anything), but the hate in their would has escalated into a point where there were no other options. Eren decided to do something horrible, but something Marley planned to do to Eldia anyway with the warriors. The reason why it seems binary is because the world itself sees the Eldians in a black-and-white manner. We clearly saw how whatever options they had were either faulty (the 50-year-plan) or morally wrong. Eren took the latter one because he waited for 4 years for anyone to come up with something, anything. He even waited for Willy Tybur to officially declare war on Paradis before he did anything. But yes, there could have been other opportunities that weren't introduced in the story. There could have been slightly better worldbuilding, like other nations interested in Eldia being on their side to take down Marley (especially those that were conquered by them, like Onyankopon's homeland). But the story needed and epic climax of events
anna
2023-03-18 17:20:13 +0000 UTCThe time travel discussion at the end is so ... *chef's kiss*
jul ☽
2023-03-18 16:41:32 +0000 UTCI find it so bizarre that some people view this incredibly volatile situation in such a binary, rigid way. It’s not as simple as saying “either the Rumbling happens or Paradis gets destroyed”. Only a Sith deals in absolutes (sorry I couldn’t help myself). It’s much more nuanced and complex than that and, with all due respect, to think otherwise does a disservice to Isayama’s brilliant writing. Also, saying that Eren had zero options or choices is not entirely accurate imo; it’s more like he didn’t have any options he agreed with. He could’ve just wiped out the military which would’ve given ample time for them to regroup and figure out other solutions. He did not have to go this far. According to Hayashi the director, Isayama said, "I want the people who are watching the anime to feel 'elated' by putting themselves in Eren's shoes, and then when they see the rumbling scene, I want them to regret that excitement that they just felt when they see how horrific it is." He put waaay too much faith in his viewers imo.
Rae
2023-03-18 16:39:35 +0000 UTCI agree with Carter, I knew this show was not going to be a typical heroic shonen story. There really is no "hero" in this show, both sides have a ton of blood on their hands. Yes, what Eren is doing is awful, but given all the knowledge that he has about the history of the world, he knows the world will never change how Eldians are viewed. He believes his people have a right to live freely and is trying to protect them from being genocided. It's not a matter of who is morally right or wrong, it's about fighting for survival ("kill or be killed") in a "cruel world". No matter what happens, there will be no perfect outcome.
Caroline B.
2023-03-18 16:37:01 +0000 UTCImo, AOT's story isn't about how characters make decisions, it's about the consequences of those decisions. Eren was neither wrong nor right in killing all the people on earth. He simply had no other choice. The problem here is that the decision is only a solution to the short-term "Eldian Freedom" problem, not a solution to the root of the biggest problem. Will Eldian people really live freely, and peacefully in a world with nothing left but them, with the curse on their backs still here?
K Gia
2023-03-18 16:36:04 +0000 UTCThe world brought genocide to the table first when they declared war on paradis and decided to wipe out an entire race/island of people based on the actions of those 100s of years earlier and blaming it on innocent Eldians. Erens just doing it better 🤷♀️ it's absolutely not right but it is justified. It was either let blind hatred and racism eradicate eren and his people or kill them first. Erens alllwwwaaayyysss been about that I wasn't shocked at all when he started the rumbling. But war is war, no one is "right" or "good" like Armin says.
Lew
2023-03-18 16:25:27 +0000 UTCI think your analogy doesn't fit in this case because when Willy Tybur declared war on Paradis, it wasn't just Marley, it was all the other nations, if I'm not mistaken. So in AoT, generally speaking, the whole world hates the Eldians which wasn't the case for the Jewish people in WW2 because they still had allies and other nations fighting for them. But still, what Eren is doing is wrong because a nation isn't just one person's mind. There are other people within it who are innocent who maybe don't even hate the Eldians and they will be killed by Eren too.
Darren Pangan
2023-03-18 16:23:33 +0000 UTCI just find it odd that some people view this incredibly volatile situation in such a binary way. No one thinks he’s crazy for wanting his home and loved ones to survive. It’s the way in which he’s going about it is what people are rightfully criticizing him for. He could’ve just wiped out the military which would’ve given ample time for them to regroup and figure out other solutions. He didn't have to go this far.
Rae
2023-03-18 16:10:53 +0000 UTCPlease rank episodes or seasons in parts
Meave
2023-03-18 16:07:26 +0000 UTCTeam genocide let's go. Don't be a bitch, if you choose genocide don't go surprised Pikachu when I genocide back.
Coco XLarge
2023-03-18 15:53:00 +0000 UTCOne cool thing about the aspect of time "manipulation" in this show is the deterministic aspect of it. It looks like there's really no room to alter the past/future, that there is only one fixed timeline. You just to go through the motions that are predetermined already. It implies that there is no "free will". I've wondered if at some level Eren noticed this, that despite his ability to see memories of the future, he still acts in the way he is predetermined to act. It kind of makes him a slave to time, with no "free will" of his own. That would be enough to make anyone resent the nature of the world and reality itself, from a certain perspective.
Z Rhoads
2023-03-18 15:51:13 +0000 UTCSome useful information, the 9 titans in AOT represent the nine traits that make up a person: Founding Titan & Colossal Titan: Symbol of mind and body Beast & Female Titan: Symbols for male and female Cart & Jaw Titan: Symbol of endurance and versatility Attack Titan & Armor Titan: Symbol of human aspirations, fight and protect War Hammer Titan: Symbol of what humans can create (Spear, bow, staff,...) Going back to Ymir's past, her hometown was destroyed by Eldian soldiers when she was a child. She lived as a slave and was deprived of her voice. She was even betrayed by her own people when she was accused of losing the pigs. King Fritz had told Ymir: "You are free", but King Fritz's freedom for her was that she would become an animal for them to hunt. Those things are too cruel for a child. So even if she had the Titan's power in her hands, she could not stand against the king. She was no longer able to fight for her freedom. In other words, Ymir - "Founding Titan", the brain that has lost the will to fight - "Attack Titan". That's why Attack Titan doesn't serve any king like Grisha said. It fights to return to the Founding Titan as Eren said: "You brought me here, after 2000 years..." Ymir finally found the right to decide for herself and the rumbling is the choice of both Ymir and Eren
K Gia
2023-03-18 15:50:25 +0000 UTCI wish I could tell why his plan actually would work but that would be a spoiler
Reaper
2023-03-18 15:46:46 +0000 UTC^ yea. “its either destroy the entire planet or your entire race gets wiped out” is what eren SAYS but its straight up not true. paradis is backed into a corner right now specifically because eren and zeke orchestrated the raid on liberio lol.
nomorepartiezz
2023-03-18 15:44:12 +0000 UTCI fucking love your guys' discussions. I only have one friend who engages on that kind of level with this show. It does have hype moments, thank you Levi, but it's got some really interesting ideas about morality. Would you let your family of 5 die to save 100 people, 100,000, 10 million? Is there a point at which the scale tips for you? Do you really value the life of your close circle over the rest of humanity? From my removed point of view I can safely say I don't. It is objectively, morally, EVIL to let billions die just to save your loved ones. But would I do it? Would I really kill billions to save my best friend or my mom? What about yourself? Would you really not kill yourself to save billions? Erwen did, he gave up on his dreams and died so that others could live. But Erwen is a saint, and I am not a saint.
Bob
2023-03-18 15:42:36 +0000 UTCWaking up and seeing episode 21 uploaded is the best way to start my weekend. Thank you for all you do! ❤
Melizé
2023-03-18 15:40:11 +0000 UTCthis 100%
nomorepartiezz
2023-03-18 15:33:11 +0000 UTCSomething my sister noticed when we watched the show together is that just like how when the holder of the Founding Titan is taken over by King Fritz and his vow, their eyes turn purple, so too it seemed like Erin was being taken over by the Attack Titan whenever his eyes went green. What she couldn't know yet was that while the Founding was a slave to the past King Fritz, the Attack was a slave to the future Erin.
Darth Demetrius
2023-03-18 15:27:20 +0000 UTCi guess i may be the only one here that side's with eren lol. i mean i agree that mass genocide is fucking awful, but considering they literally were stuck with 2 shitty decisions (1) being Zeke's plan to just have the eldian race to die off in 50 to 100yrs, which i hated from the get go because that is such a temporary plan cause who knows if the world would stop trying to attack them at point. Also, im not gonna go with a plan to kill off my ENTIRE race of people because the world hates us. then (2) Eren's plan which is horrific but will work because the hate the world has for Eldians would be extinguished alongside with them lol. its fucked up cause eren literally gave them what 2 to 3 chances before the rumbling even happened to see if they would change there mind for the better. like no one is really wrong in this situation, you just need to decided which you believe is the better choice. Also, they whole "but a bunch of innocents would die" arguement is kinda redundant because both the intial attack on the walls, and even now, SOOOOO many innocent people died for literally no reason. like the Paradise were literally minding there own business while marley was consistantly sending titans over to kill them then have the nerve to destroy the walls that were "protecting" them as well. then ALL of the countries want to band together to come kill us lol nah im coo, humanity outside the walls can get these titan feet the arguement "they would start fighting amongst each other and possibly have a civil war" well that is a possibility, that is a issue that can be solved with actual conversation as with this situation it cant. its way beyond the point of just talking it out. id much rather fight amongst each other and understand why we are fighting than get attacked consistanly from other countries that we never knew existed up until now for something that happened 2000yrs ago. im not sure if any of this makes sense, but if you agree with zeke's plan then thats great. neither choice is better than the other lol it honestly just depends on how you view it
Philbo
2023-03-18 15:26:11 +0000 UTCI know somebody said it already, but I remember seeing the title of this episode for the first time and being absolutely MIND BLOWN. They have had this planned since the very first episode- To You, in 2000 years. Eren’s dream under the tree is so cool to go back and look at.
Bryce
2023-03-18 15:22:24 +0000 UTCTo You, 2000 Years Later - S1E1 title "I bore witness to the manifestation of humanity's rage." - Mikasa, S1E7 on seeing Erin's titan for the first time From You, 2000 Years Ago- S4E21 title Erin is the embodiment of Ymir's rage. She waited 2000 years for Erin to come save her.
Darth Demetrius
2023-03-18 15:20:24 +0000 UTCthe thing is that Eren's plan won't save Eldia. They will end up fighting for the titan powers like they did during the titan war. And i'm sure Eren knows that and is fine with that as long as he could guaranteed a peaceful life for his friends. A small scale rumbling would've accomplished the same goal but he did it full scale because that is what he always wanted to do since he realized that the world outside the walls wasn't what he longer for. I'm pretty sure that "saving the eldians" is more of an excuse to try to cope and justify his actions.
Gianluca Angeli
2023-03-18 15:17:25 +0000 UTCIMO Ymir still listens to the King despite having all the power because 1. Like you guys said she’s mentally broken down and only knows how to be a slave 2. She wanted desperately to find love and have a family. She stares longingly at the couple getting married and then here she gets her own family, in a twisted way. Then when she dies she continues to provide for her family (the Royal Blood).
ssj4rit
2023-03-18 15:15:27 +0000 UTCfreida bad asf
Lag Sold
2023-03-18 14:57:24 +0000 UTCEren is basically just initiating the cycle of violence and kicking it into overdrive
Santiago
2023-03-18 14:51:16 +0000 UTCI’m totally with cannon on this one. Eren’s decision makes sense on the surface but him sacrificing the world along with soooo many eldians and innocent people, who had nothing to do with their government’e actions, makes his solution more twisted and ridiculous than Zeke’s plan. I think Isayama did this intentionally of both Yeager brothers having such extreme and very black n white plans. Zeke and Eren being two sides of the same coin. Also I like how in the original Marley propaganda, Ymir makes a deal with the “devil of all earth” to gain the Titan powers and in the paths we see eren offer a deal to Ymir so he can basically become the devil that destroys all of humanity.
Santiago
2023-03-18 14:48:35 +0000 UTCHe definitely is a slave to memory, and I think that’s the point. Eren proclaims himself to be the most free, and says he wants to escape the cycle of hate, but instead he is a slave who is perpetuating the cycle.
keyton bush
2023-03-18 14:47:42 +0000 UTCAnd Cannon is right, killing everyone else is not going to solve their problems. For one, even if the world hates them, Paradis is in a very strategically superior position given their wall titans. I do not think the world has any weapons to counter millions of these colossals. So, Paradis is safe for now. Zeke's 50 year solution was the most reasonable solution (if you disregard his Euthanasia plan). They could have used the 50 years to engage with the rest of the world in a more productive way, strengthening their ties - things and people change over time. Heck, many characters have changed their ideas so far, so there is some hope. Also, remember, Eldia was the first one to use its own people as titans to expand its powers. Marley is merely repeating Eldia's model, so eradiacting the world is not going to get rid of hate or violence through titans. The hate will merely be transferred to the Paradians who will then joist for power within themselves, and repeat the cycle, only now everyone is a subject of Ymir. The rumbling is aesthetically awe-inspiring, and visually, it is the most amazing thing I think in any form of media. But as much as I can rack my brains, I cannot find a single justification for such violence. Which problem exactly is being solved through this? And what makes one think that the solution isn't far worse than the problem itself? Or the secondary and tertiary consequences it will lead to?
Shiro
2023-03-18 14:44:00 +0000 UTCSame. I can never agree with someone who believes omnicide is a viable solution because at that point it’s no longer self-defense. Some people say “oh if you’re against the rumbling then you’re ok with Paradis getting wiped out”. This is such an inane way of thinking. I personally would’ve supported it if it was actually used for self-defense i.e. if it was used against military.
Rae
2023-03-18 14:43:23 +0000 UTC(1) Ok, how is Eren's world rumbling going to save Ymir? If anything, Zeke's plan is more in line with freeing Ymir. If there are no subjects of Ymir, she will be free as no one can command her to make titans. How is killing non-eldians/non-subjects of Ymir going to set her free? These are actually her victims, they have no control over her/cannot command her to make titans, or anything else. (2) One possible solution is - get rid of the Fritz royal family. They are the only ones who can control mindless titans. If they are no more, there would be no merit in creating mindless titans as they will just eat everyone indiscriminately. Also, the world has already developed weapons against them so even if someone evil tries to turn a poor subject of Ymir into a mindless titan, it will not work in their favor as the titan will be out of control and will also be taken down. I wonder if there is no royal blood to access Ymir's path world, she can be free, right? Why then pass the power of the 9 shifter titans to random Eldians? Even if they are passed down, these poor unfortunate 9 children are going to live up to 13 years. (3) The future memories is underwhelming to me, to be honest. Eren saw when he was 15 years old that his 19-year-old version will commit world genocide. Since in this universe, the future is set in stone and cannot be altered, this means that 19 year old Eren will still do the rumbling just because his 15 year old self saw his 19 year old self do it. Isn't he a slave to his memory then?
Shiro
2023-03-18 14:32:55 +0000 UTCCannon was right about the fact that their bro trip into their dad’s memories is the reason why Grisha ended up killing the family, because Eren influenced him. The only reason why he KNEW Zeke was there (before “seeing” him) was because he saw that in Eren’s memoeies that they went into Grisha’s! It’s a whole mind trip.
Melissa Huynh
2023-03-18 14:28:02 +0000 UTCThere is a video out there doing the math how many years Ymir spent building all those colossals in the wall. I think it was something like 19+ millions years.
Antonie Kluczniak
2023-03-18 14:18:50 +0000 UTCCompletely unrelated but you're so pretty wtf
Mia Malvik
2023-03-18 14:16:32 +0000 UTCI'm definitely more with Cannon in terms of what's right and wrong here. I'll be honest it's kinda concerning to me the number of AoT fans I've seen justify Eren's actions (and by extension genocide). I get this is a work of fiction, but there actually is such a thing as right and wrong. Truth isn't relative. I'm reminded of something repeated in scripture being that eventually people will call evil good and good evil. Taking lives is a very serious thing. I'm not fully against it, I actually think the death penalty should be used in some court cases, self-defense, or defense of country if truly needed. But it's not something that should ever be done lightly, and taking out innocent civilians is certainly not the move if it can be avoided. I believe Armin was right, if Eren took out the military alliance, they could've bought themselves time to attempt to negotiate with the remaining world leaders. Whether that would work out in the end is a bridge you cross when you get there, and if it did work, as has been implied in this story, the founder has the ability to remove the power of the titans. I just can't find a way to justify Eren killing all those innocent people.
Mitchell Clark
2023-03-18 14:13:02 +0000 UTCYes!!👏👏 Thank you for pointing it out!! I was going to comment this but you explained it better than I could!!
Gee.Ali
2023-03-18 14:01:17 +0000 UTCFInally. I have been waiting for you guys to get to this exact episode since you uploaded the first episode
Hennessy Jed
2023-03-18 13:39:58 +0000 UTCEren isn't a slave to fate ,he wanted everything to happen this way , it just wasn't revealed,he agreed with the future that he saw he is only a slave to his twisted freedom
Gu
2023-03-18 13:29:18 +0000 UTCTo be fair, Eren just pulled the ultimate Uno Reverse card. The entire world was going to wipe out all Eldians, and in return Eren will wipe out all the other races.
Hippopi
2023-03-18 13:26:57 +0000 UTCThis episode was INSANE - I honestly feel like it’s Eren’s best and worst moral decision all wrapped up into one: only Eren could’ve looked at Ymir and seen a person who deserved to choose, but also only Eren could decide that wiping out everyone on the planet was a viable solution to this problem. So conflicting, bc I loved him so much for that moment, but genocide is just waay too far
Julia Perez
2023-03-18 13:17:31 +0000 UTCand sure thats the only option for EREN. thats why I view him as selfish. he could’ve bought time using the partial rumbling and then pass the founder on to a successor and entrust them to find a solution. but he didnt. hes too angry and mentally broken and obsessed with freedom. he is a very tragic and beautifully written character but i don’t support much of anything he does in season 4.
nomorepartiezz
2023-03-18 12:48:20 +0000 UTCyea at the end of the day its hard to apply real world logic to a story where an entire race of people are basically biological weapons lol. but im still gonna try Also the story shows us that the Volunteers and the Azumabito have been working to integrate Paradis back into the modern world including beginning to share technology with them. Heres a solution: use the partial rumbling to put a halt to the current military operation being put together in Marley. this will buy at least a few decades of time (like Armin, Zeke, and fifty other characters have been saying this entire time). then make a deal with the Azumabito saying we’ll give you some of our precious resources if you ally with us. then work together to technologically advance together. use that time to study the founder and the paths and find a way of getting through to Ymir and ending the titan problem without castrating your entire race. there you go, now Eldia can defend themselves without relying on Titans. of course theres lots of assumptions in that, of course thered still be fighting and conflict. but i refuse to believe there isnt a middle ground between causing the extinction of the human race and just sitting back and letting Marley annihilate you.
nomorepartiezz
2023-03-18 12:43:58 +0000 UTCBro how are you so good. Another beautiful theory of this episode and cleanly explained!
Henarivan Andhika
2023-03-18 12:43:13 +0000 UTCZeke is fighting for Eldians too, but in a very nihilistic way. Yes it is a peaceful end to the conflict but that doesn't mean it is moral to sterilise a race of people so that they go extinct. Continuing your family line is part of life and restricting that from a race of people is morally evil. Of course wiping out the rest of the planet is even worse but that's why the writing is so fantastic! There is no easy answer, as with real life.
__JMN
2023-03-18 12:40:51 +0000 UTCYeah i like meta angel's theory too and thought about it until i remember that theres not a single clue from the anime that non subject of ymir can turns into a titan or even connect to the path. So yeah based on how ymir can deliberately choose who she serve/gives power to, its about her perception of who's royal, and probably she just knows :D
Henarivan Andhika
2023-03-18 12:37:03 +0000 UTCI think everyone understands that the Rumbling is immoral, but it is what Eren feels is necessary to ensure his friends and homeland is safe forever. The difference between AOT and the real life events it is inspired by is that Eldian's are genuinely a race with a biological trait that makes them extremely dangerous. Even if they used the founder to make Eldians normal humans, it would leave them totally defenceless and the world had no interest of ever forgiving the "island devils", they would just roll up and take it's natural resources and kill them. Eren's prime goal is to protect Paradis, and the only way to guarantee that long term is to wipe out everyone else. That is extremely dark but that is why Eren is so broken by what he feels he has to do to protect Paradis.
__JMN
2023-03-18 12:36:08 +0000 UTCyes not literally the entire world was against jews. they’ve been persecuted and faced racism for millenia though. still happens currently. it probably feels like “the entire world” has always hated them at times. same with the Eldians. its easy to say that but we have barely seen anything. Everything we’ve seen is from the perspective of Marley, their greatest enemy. There was another middle eastern soldier who was racist. But its like yall forget that there are also people like Onyonkapon and the Azumabito (hell even Yelena, yes she’s a crazy Zeke dickrider but in her mind shes “helping” Eldians) who are sympathetic towards the Eldian’s plight. Sure its not a lot, and the Azumabito ultimately wanted resources, but its something. You cant just dismiss it “every single person on the planet hates us.” If the Azumabito only want you for your resources? thats fine, then you work out a deal with them to ally with you. thats how politics and diplomacy works. in the beginning of Willy Tyburs speech he was building empathy towards Eldians. He praised the peaceful Eldians and you literally see politicians in the crowd from other countries saying “wait if they’ve been peaceful this entire time why do we hate them so much?” The only reason the entire world ended up joining together to invade Paradis is because Willy painted Eren as a violent evil overthrower who was a threat to the entire world. And Eren only proved him right. That shows that there is a precedent for the world to be more understanding and accepting of Eldians when the titans are not a direct threat. So take advantage of that?? Send diplomats to other countries? Explain your situation and how you had your memories wiped for a hundred years and are only just now realizing the state of the world? Use that newly bought time to study the founding titan, Ymir, and come to an understanding on how to end the Titan curse. Use that time to continue working with the Azumabito so your military and technology is up to speed and you dont need Titans to defend yourselves anymore. Eren still had time. If the world only hates you because they think you’re a threat then prove that you arent a threat. I understand everything wouldn’t be happy sunshine and rainbows but anything is better than deciding to wipe the human race off the face of the planet. Paradis needed a leader like Armin. Someone who understands how to talk things out and prefers to reach mutually agreed upon solutions. Unfortunately they only had a military government and a mentally broken, freedom obsessed Eren, who didnt know how to do anything except fight.
nomorepartiezz
2023-03-18 12:34:41 +0000 UTCthis season is just straight peak
Toff
2023-03-18 12:30:47 +0000 UTCThere is no time travel in AOT, just "time viewing" which is actually something Einstein believed would be possible! In the case of AOT, it is through shared memories which we see throughout the series but the Attack titan has the unique ability to see the memories of it's future inheritors. Combine the Attack titan foresight with the Founding titan ability to access the paths where all things happen in an instant, and you have the scenario where Grisha can see Eren's future memories of him and Zeke watching Grisha's memories. Grisha seeing those future memories as he was living through those scenrios effectively means that Eren and Zeke can interact with Grisha from the future. Eren didn't change anything, it ALWAYS happened this way, we had just never seen Grisha's true perspective of these events until now. The irony being that Eren is a slave to fate.
__JMN
2023-03-18 12:30:43 +0000 UTCunderrated comment @Mhate, AOT, Bleach and One Piece are my top 3
__JMN
2023-03-18 12:25:14 +0000 UTCI think @meta angel theory is the best one, that other elite families within the empire (like the Tyburs) ate the spines of Maria Rose and Sina, splitting the titans into 9 and creating subjects of Ymir that aren't blood descendants of Fritz or Ymir, but inheriting the power of the titans through the canibalism. Then as technology evolved and syringes were invented that became ingesting spinal fluid. However the gap in that theory is that if it were the case, injecting any human with zeke's spinal fluid would make them capable of turning into a titan. So I don't think there is an absolutely concrete explanation for it. It is likely just whoever Ymir perceives as Royal, which is why Eren could essentially just convince her to listen to him instead. There was nothing physically stopping her, just her own submissiveness and slave mentality
__JMN
2023-03-18 12:24:01 +0000 UTCThis analogy is not really correct, not the whole world was against Jews, in this case everybody is against Eldians and everybody wants the power for themselves so they would never stop to try and get said power. Therefore it's them against the world.
H2KKI2
2023-03-18 12:20:26 +0000 UTCconfict always comes back up. nothing is ever solved 100% peacefully. thats how humanity works. that doesn’t give any one person the excuse to wipe out 99% of the human race. it doesn’t work like that. if we decided to cause the apocalypse and end of humanity every single time a group of people was abused or oppressed or genocided then we wouldn’t have survived past the stone age.
nomorepartiezz
2023-03-18 12:19:50 +0000 UTCI thought it might be who she perceives as Royal but in that case Zeke doesn't really qualify as he is part of a watered down branch family in the continent. Although his mother's name was Dina Fritz so maybe that is enough?
__JMN
2023-03-18 12:18:05 +0000 UTCHard agree
Mia Malvik
2023-03-18 12:07:47 +0000 UTCOMG this is literally the best plot hole that someone ever found imo! If royal blood is decided by the first king's blood, then EVERYONE is technically a royal blood. Theres no way around it. But as we can see, the power that royal blood get/can access is given by ymir, ymir is choosing whose she's obeying to inside the "Path". Thats why he can choose to give her power to eren in the end. My take is royal blood power is not related by blood in technical, but a person which ymir perceives as "people that she needs to serve", and she's so broken mentally she cant even fight it.
Henarivan Andhika
2023-03-18 12:06:43 +0000 UTCYeah, it's weird that people are trying to justify genocides. I had a great-great uncle who served in WW2 in the Japanese army, and I'm glad Japan surrendered after the two atomic bombs were dropped, and also, I don't believe that the US continuing to drop atomic bombs in that war until every single Japanese person is wiped off from the face of the planet would have been the morally right thing to do.
James
2023-03-18 12:00:40 +0000 UTCyou guys talked about one of the most famous paradox at the end. you cant go back in time and kill your dad (or grandfather) before you were conceived because you would have never existed to do so. its crazy but my favorite is the bootstrap paradox, or Ontological paradox, simply called an info loop, say you go back in time to teach Einstein the theory of relativity, just for him to explain it to the world, but you knew it because of him. This can also apply to objects and people, for instance, if your grandfather gave you a necklace, and you eventually give it to him in the past, what is the origin of the necklace.
Zechree
2023-03-18 11:57:16 +0000 UTCWhat Zeke is doing is basically a better version of what king Fritz wanted. He said that he wont fight back when someone comes to kill these Eldians in the walls. Zeke wants to eliminate all the Eldians (be it inside the walls, be it in Marley, or any other Interment zone around the world), if all the Eldians are gone the Titans will fade away with them (coz there will be no one to inherit the titans).
Aakash Shivhare
2023-03-18 11:56:46 +0000 UTCThe score in this season is superrr good. Gives me lord of the rings vibes
Megan Kirby
2023-03-18 11:50:05 +0000 UTCrespect cannon for sticking to his guns. what Eren is doing with the Rumbling is like if a Jewish person who survived the holocaust suddenly decided to nuke the entire planet. Why would hundreds of millions of innocent people and children in say, Africa, China, Canada, etc. deserve to die? I feel like people dont grasp how evil the Rumbling is because we only really see Paradis and Marley and mere hints at the existence of an entire planet outside of that.
nomorepartiezz
2023-03-18 11:28:25 +0000 UTCI think i remember zeke doesnt want world peace, he wants to free eldians and its descendants from the pain and sufferings just by being born with a cursed blood, living in oppresion and fear of what the world gonna do to eldians. I respect zeke for that cause he lived that, he knows how it feels to suffer as eldians. Its like a parent's feeling to not want have a child in this cruel world.
Henarivan Andhika
2023-03-18 11:26:03 +0000 UTCyes Marley would have always tried to destroy Paradis anyways. they needed their resources and founding titan. but Willy Tybur gave a speech painting Eren out to be some evil and violent overthrower of a peaceful government (remember that this was heavily pushed for and planned by Zeke). and he only proved them right by annihilating the festival and basically forcing Paradis to come rescue him. when Willy is giving his speech theres literally people in the crowd saying “wait why is Paradis considered the enemy if they’ve been peaceful this entire time?” Eren and Zeke purposefully lit a match and pissed off the entire world. We shouldn’t forget that before the Willy Tybur event most of the world also hated Marley and was waiting to overthrow them. The only reason they ended up teaming together with Marley is because they were convinced by Willy that scary evil Eren was coming to destroy the whole world and then Eren decided to play right into that. It did not have to happen this way
nomorepartiezz
2023-03-18 11:24:54 +0000 UTCEpisode 1: to you, in 2000 years. Episode 80: From you, 2000 years ago.
Megan Kirby
2023-03-18 11:22:09 +0000 UTCmarley only declared war on them because zeke and eren orchestrated the whole Willy Tybur event. there were other options. zeke and armin and most of the other characters were fans of a “partial rumbling” that would only destroy marley or the world’s militaries and buy them time. Eren literally admits in the beginning of the part 3 special episode that Zekes plan would end suffering. he also literally is sobbing over to Ramzi over what he’s going to do but says its because he was disappointed in the outside world and wants to reset it to his child-like vision of what freedom was. if you look at the Azumabito and volunteers like Onyonkapon, clearly there are people from the outside world who have sympathy towards Paradis. they could’ve taken advantage of that and tried to use diplomacy and honesty to explain their situation from their perspective but the government didnt do shit. they did one recon mission to Marley (their biggest enemy of course they’re going to be hostile) and Eren decides he’s seen enough. he is doing it for twisted and selfish reasons.
nomorepartiezz
2023-03-18 11:15:51 +0000 UTCCarter
Nextrackter
2023-03-18 11:10:17 +0000 UTCBRIG knows the vibes!!! Natuto next FTW!!!
Goat-ruto
2023-03-18 11:03:14 +0000 UTCalso you also got it wrong when you said MArley just wants power, that was what they wanted previously but after Willy Tybur made Magath the leader of Marleys military, it was made clear that Magath was going to set things in a way so that Eldians and MArleyans could live in better harmony with each other. He also said in episode 17 that they need to eat the foudnign titan in order to end 2000 years of world hatred and to save the world.
Sean Carroll
2023-03-18 11:01:40 +0000 UTCJackson was actually the only one right at the start. praphrasing from his backstory in ep 15 "If Eldians were never born, then the whole world wouldnt have to fear us for being titans and whats more if we werent born then we wouldnt have to suffer either. Therefore Zeke is fighting for Both Eldians and the world to free everyone, its a messed up way of doing it but in his mind it was the only way to stop the worlds suffering.
Sean Carroll
2023-03-18 10:58:49 +0000 UTC72nd
Jakob Bæk Hansen
2023-03-18 10:45:25 +0000 UTCNever change Cannon. Even with everyone arguing against him still holding true to what's right. Carter also impressed me with his understanding of Determinant Timelines. Eren was always going to do this, but that doesn't meant these two choices were the only ones. Personally, I disagree with Eren, Floch, and Zeke 🤷
DeeHasApples
2023-03-18 10:40:53 +0000 UTCOh, don't remind me of Steins gate. I never hated an anime in my entire life this much. Except for Akame ga kill. I hate these two animes.
T. Law
2023-03-18 10:38:14 +0000 UTC1. Fixed timeline 2. Dynamic timeline 3. Multiverse i.e. alternative timelines (my fav) e.g. Stein’s gate
rosa_gris
2023-03-18 10:36:01 +0000 UTCThe way timeline and time works in AOT is all linear and set. So what Eren did with Grisha was already set, the moment they went to the memories, it became a bootstrap paradox. So the point you are talking about if they havent gone to the memories would there be separate timelines, if that happened then it is implied Grisha doesn't carry on with the attack (The same day he gave Eren both titans), meaning Eren wont get the attack/founding titan so if that doesnt happen etc. Time is all linear and set is the point. The past eren kissing historia saw memories of himself manipulating Grisha and killing everyone and fragments of the rumbling and what it has done hence why he was so fucked up. Shit is crazy af
JDang
2023-03-18 10:35:54 +0000 UTCAnd I respect him for it 😂 I actually agree with him here, that Zeke is doing it for the world AND Eldians. Zeke has this warped belief that ending the existence of Eldians is a blessing. Hence he feels little to no remorse in killing them. He cares about Eldians in his own unique way 🤷♀️
rosa_gris
2023-03-18 10:32:22 +0000 UTCWatching you guys trying to figure out time-travel was so entertaining. Would love to see your reactions to other time-travel media. Carter casually siding with Eren/Floch/“psycho” and Cannon turning to him in disbelief will always be funny to me.
rosa_gris
2023-03-18 10:22:52 +0000 UTCRegarding your final discussion, there are 2 different ways of dealing with time travel: 1. Aot & Dark approach: The past CANNOT change. Brig can't kill his dad lol because he wouldn't exist. Every action you do will lead to the present events. 2. Back to the Future approach: you can change the past. Brig can kill his father and he will get to a different reality in the present where his future self doesn't exist but his self that traveled in time still exists and won't vanish. I don't know if you get what I wanted to say.
T. Law
2023-03-18 10:22:07 +0000 UTCJack always having that point that no-one else agrees with lol
Elias Austin
2023-03-18 10:18:46 +0000 UTCThere were originally only 3 branches on the tree in the coordinate because at the time Maria, Rose & Sina were the only Subjects of Ymir. Despite rewatching AOT a few times, I didn’t notice that until watching this reaction.
Jay
2023-03-18 10:18:41 +0000 UTCBit of a fun fact but the titans and their origin is inspired by norse mythology, the first norse giant was actually called ymir so that's the biggest connection. And in this episode there's more possible connections, like the tree Ymir hides in is Yggdrasil (paths tree also) which is the world tree in norse mythology, and it's split into /nine/ realms. The water she falls into is likely the substance called Eitr, which is described as the origin of all living things in norse mythology, and that's what Grisha described she encountered too. "The source of all living matter". Then the centipede looking thing could be Nidhogg which is a serpent like creature that feeds off the roots of Yggdrasil. The substance Eitr is also a poison created by the Nidhogg so the connection there is pretty strong. There's also a lot of parallels between different gods and characters, like Eren and Odin. So basically the fact that Isayama was inspired by Norse mythology is an obvious fact, but it's up for speculation where there's actual connections. So fun though!
Mia Malvik
2023-03-18 10:17:24 +0000 UTC30:10 Yelena: Zeke! Mikasa: Eren! 😂😂.
T. Law
2023-03-18 09:59:36 +0000 UTCUnfortunately.
T. Law
2023-03-18 09:58:25 +0000 UTCCarters spot on dude. It's literally either they do the rumbling or paradis gets wiped out. Keep in mind, Marley is the one who declared war first even knowing that paradis has the rumbling. Erens just choosing for his family live rather than the people who have been prosecuting them his whole life. Of course the innocent casualties sucks but this isn't a perfect world where you can just decide the good guys live and the bad guys die. It's straight up just either eren does the rumbling or all of his friends and family are dead. Of course he'd sacrifice the world for his friends and family, I find it odd that people act like he's crazy for just wanting his home to survive
Flare
2023-03-18 09:53:05 +0000 UTCThis is my theory. Descendants of Ymir are just subjects of Ymir. Fmir is a slave, so King Fritz had a legal wife of course, and their children are the royal family line. But they didn't have titan power at that point, so had to marry subject of Ymir and their descendants is royal blood line of subjects of Ymir.
三上
2023-03-18 09:52:18 +0000 UTCit depends on which time travel thing you're doing. AOT's yea. If its like Looper, brig would just disappear; if it's like Terminator, brig now lives in a changed future.
bloosmoke
2023-03-18 09:47:49 +0000 UTCisayama, kubo and oda are the goats of foreshadowing <3
sahme
2023-03-18 09:47:30 +0000 UTCrip brig's dad lol
bloosmoke
2023-03-18 09:45:40 +0000 UTCThe way i view it there's only two choices, everyone on Paradis dies or everyone outside Paradis dies, there is no possibility for middle ground since it would only delay this question from coming up again. Also technology is rapidly progressing so the only window of time for paradis to protect itself is right at this moment.
sesaka
2023-03-18 09:43:31 +0000 UTCI totally understand her mindset, and I'd just like to clarify that this comment wasn't meant to be a negative/slight against Ymir, but more so to Fritz for being a turd.
Kaelah
2023-03-18 09:43:02 +0000 UTCyup! they say that in the show I think in the finale of season 3 or the one before in the prison when eren is talking about inheriting his dad’s memories and the curse of ymir (13 years curse)
sahme
2023-03-18 09:42:37 +0000 UTCdark was perfect until how it was resolved imo
Marc Davey
2023-03-18 09:41:18 +0000 UTCthe human mind isn’t perfect, grooming and stockholm syndrome exist, as a victim of such things I fully understand why that happened for Ymir but I see why some people wouldn’t understand it
sahme
2023-03-18 09:41:03 +0000 UTCMy guess is that the child that got the founding titan or the oldest child was considered royal blood. But its the same with like in Europe everyone is tied by blood with royalty going back far enough, just theres the specific line from the eldest children that get considered
sesaka
2023-03-18 09:39:49 +0000 UTCif brig went back in time and killed his father it would turn out that he was actually never his biological father
Marc Davey
2023-03-18 09:39:00 +0000 UTCCheck out the title of the first episode of the series compared to this one, the author really had the idea down when he started writing it
McLovin
2023-03-18 09:38:52 +0000 UTCDifference is you gotta have the spine animal in you to be titan eldian, the only ones with that are "subjects of ymir"/ymirs descendants
sesaka
2023-03-18 09:37:40 +0000 UTC"Father ... Grisha" 😂 I like how he switched back to Grisha ❤️.
T. Law
2023-03-18 09:36:05 +0000 UTC@aweosmepossum Eldians has just become what they call the subjects/descendants of ymir. The tribe "Eldia" 2000 years ago did not have the trait to turn into titans and Ymir didn't either, ymir turned because she encountered the thing in the tree, and from then on all her children, the subjects of ymir, inherited the trait to turn into titans
kiiturii
2023-03-18 09:30:07 +0000 UTCIt messes with my brain that the entire story of AOT was basically started because a girl loved a man who didn't give a shit about her.
Kaelah
2023-03-18 09:29:00 +0000 UTCIf you can't fully understand what happened then maybe you should watch 'Dark' in case you haven't watched it yet. It's a loss if someone hasn't watched that show yet.
T. Law
2023-03-18 09:28:25 +0000 UTCI would like to point out that Season 2 End credits featured a King with 3 children eating something bloody with a skeleton on the table. Season 2 premiered in April 2017. In the Manga version, "From You, 2,000 Years Ago" was released October 2019. This means all of us (including Manga readers) were spoiled 2 years ahead in broad daylight and nobody figured it out. This is why I am for everyone watching the opening and end credits for AOT. It's really hard to tell which are spoilers or which are just there as a filler like the running animals along with the Beast titan in one outro. And when you realize it's been in front of your face all along, it hits you like a brick. If you look at the S2 outro comments on youtube you'd see comments from 3+ years ago saying how mind blown they were. Hints of events in "Declaration Of War" was also featured in Season 2 ending and we didn't get that in the Manga until December 2017. Isayama cooked extremely well.
kev
2023-03-18 09:25:43 +0000 UTCThere’s a few theories about that. The one that clicks the best for me is that the original 9 titans were given to other high-class families within Eldia. The founding titan likely stayed in the Fritz line. If other Eldian families ate the spines of Ymir’s children to because the 9 they could be connected to the coordinate without having royal blood. Not confirmed though.
meta angel
2023-03-18 09:25:31 +0000 UTCyeah I've thought of this too, not really sure where the royal blood comes from because technically everyone who's a descendant of ymir is also a descendant of the king, unless ymir also had children with other people which seems unlikely but might be possible if the king got too old and became infertile after 3 children or something
kiiturii
2023-03-18 09:25:14 +0000 UTCOfc Zeke is not fighting for anyone in particular except Xavier. Unlike Eren, he doesn't have strong and meaningful relationships. My boy is lonely 😔💔.
T. Law
2023-03-18 09:19:03 +0000 UTCThe way AOT gets around the time travel stuff is amazing. Because it’s all memories. No one physically time travels. AOT operates under the predetermined time travel method. It’s the same thing that is in Harry Potter. If something happened in the past due to time travel, then that already occurred. It can’t be changed. And since time exists at any point in the coordinate, that means that the future has already occurred there and the past, so memories of the future can be seen by those in the past. Hence the attack titans ability.
BZD
2023-03-18 09:08:50 +0000 UTCI can't remember the name of the youtuber, but he was saying how one of the children was probably made the "heir" and so her descendants are the Kings while her sisters are not. And then they just made Ymir think they were her masters and that's why she doesn't recognise the other two sisters descendants as "royal blood". Does that make sense? It's not solid but it makes at least a little bit of sense.
Kaelah
2023-03-18 09:05:45 +0000 UTCWho’s writing this again?
Arimpact
2023-03-18 09:04:44 +0000 UTCAll 3 of Ymir's children, Maria, Rosae and Sina are King Fritz daughters right?So all of Ymir's descendants can turn into Titans and also have royal blood.
__JMN
2023-03-18 09:04:02 +0000 UTCShe's wasn't the first eldian, eldians already existed before her. That's why the king in the flashback referred to his tribe as "Eldia."
aweosmepossum
2023-03-18 09:03:16 +0000 UTC"Royal blood" means Fritz (Reiss) family in this case. Family tree is important.
三上
2023-03-18 08:54:20 +0000 UTCBut my point is that if all of the people that can turn into titans are Ymir's descendants and all of Ymir's children are with the king then all of Ymir's descendants have royal blood
__JMN
2023-03-18 08:39:56 +0000 UTCthey’re all eldians so they are able to turn into titans. Ymir was a eldian.
JJ
2023-03-18 08:37:43 +0000 UTCAlso not sure if this ever gets tied up properly in the manga but one plot hole I thought of is that if Ymir had 3 children with king Fritz then that means every descendant of Ymir has royal blood. So I don't really get how the royal blood thing works unless it's so level of purity or something like that?
__JMN
2023-03-18 08:34:09 +0000 UTCi just looked it up and there alot alott of videos explaining this ep so u shld be good
TheRealBilaal
2023-03-18 08:33:50 +0000 UTCAlso I think if a titan shifter dies, their power gets assigned to the next random Eldian child born after the shifters death
AcidicCerberus
2023-03-18 08:33:18 +0000 UTCI also love the thinking about that to Gabi this was pretty much instant. She shot eren and then by the time she fell the the ground the walls were crumbling and the biggest Titan we have ever seen manifested right in front of her. So insane
__JMN
2023-03-18 08:31:32 +0000 UTCI went to bed before all of these were uploaded because I wanted my sleeping pattern to not be ruined, but... Lol. I had a dream Carter was sitting on the couch alone, with a cake on the table with one candle in it. A voice was narrating, 'Carter's idiot friends watched the rest without him. Carter is trying to come to terms with this betrayal.'😂 He was wearing black like he was mourning, & his expression looked like [SPOILER FOR RICK & MORTY] Morty's from the end of episode 6😂 the narrators voice also sounded like the beginning of Elden Ring, or the chicken nugger video on YouTube. Dreams are weird, man.
Lorelei
2023-03-18 08:30:52 +0000 UTCSo in theory, the founder could get rid of the titans and just have Eldians live normally, but Marley still see them as devils and want their resources, and would inevitably invade the island, and without any titan powers to protect them, Marley would wipe the floor with them as they are far more advanced with their technology, and even if they kept the power of the titans, as they mention, the technology is advancing to the point where it will soon overpower titans and titanshifters, so the Eldians would still be wiped out brutally either way, thats why Zeke wants to euthanise them and show a small amount of the rumblings power, so the rest of the world would leave the island alone until they eventually died out peacefully
AcidicCerberus
2023-03-18 08:30:29 +0000 UTCThe whole first of this episode is just incredible dialogue and ost. Eren talking about seeing his future and then learning Ymir's story with the king's dialogue. Then it just flips when the rumbling starts and we see Ymir's rage for the first time, footsteps of doom ost and Eren finally destroying those walls. Ending with that absolutely chilling speech, total masterpiece.
__JMN
2023-03-18 08:30:18 +0000 UTCNever thought the story would go this direction,.but it makes so much sense why things ended up this way
Jag_227
2023-03-18 08:26:33 +0000 UTCi lit just finished the last ep, perfect timing. bouta finish this before i go for jiu jitsu
TheRealBilaal
2023-03-18 08:22:53 +0000 UTCAt 4:21 in the morning? *Bob Belcher voice* Fine, I'll watch it, but I'm gonna complain the whole time
kev
2023-03-18 08:21:44 +0000 UTCHahaha the grind never stops
Studio Geck
2023-03-18 08:21:14 +0000 UTCSo great!
Studio Geck
2023-03-18 08:21:03 +0000 UTCPlease tell us if you really get that 100dlls donation. I say nah, but if you do I would like to pay "F"
David Herrera
2023-03-18 08:20:49 +0000 UTCHaha once again, I didnt really have all my thoughts all collected very well because these string of episodes had me in a BLENDER, but now I have what I would consider a very interesting theory I cant wait to share in our season review! But for now, enjoy the chaotic post commentary 😂
Studio Geck
2023-03-18 08:20:40 +0000 UTCI just woke up this is perfect 🥲
Mia Malvik
2023-03-18 08:20:27 +0000 UTCNot my 1 braincell left not remembering there are other timezones and wondering why you guys are up at 4:17 AM before remembering “oh, timezones are a thing” 😂💀
Tkdmegs
2023-03-18 08:18:26 +0000 UTCI know y''all caught up to the show in the present but I'm looking forward seeing the two of you lose your shit completely in the next few episodes
C2-H5-OH
2023-03-18 08:17:32 +0000 UTCLiterally was about to sleep right after watch episode 20 reaction but sleep can wait now
YourGuy
2023-03-18 08:17:29 +0000 UTCit aint late if you dont sleep.
T T T
2023-03-18 08:17:25 +0000 UTCAh it’s 1:16am and I have work at 9. Can’t wait to watch this after work! One of my favorite episodes!
A_Daddy Daichi
2023-03-18 08:17:16 +0000 UTCI JUST FINISHED EPISODE 20 REACTION WHAT SICK TIMING
flamehead x27
2023-03-18 08:16:58 +0000 UTCACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: THE RUMBLING
Driscollis
2023-03-18 08:16:52 +0000 UTCStudio Gekko how are you
Thicc Thanos
2023-03-18 08:16:45 +0000 UTCThis is cinema.
JDang
2023-03-18 08:16:40 +0000 UTCHow are you guys so fast
YourGuy
2023-03-18 08:16:39 +0000 UTCForuth
YourGuy
2023-03-18 08:16:25 +0000 UTCFritz
David Herrera
2023-03-18 08:16:19 +0000 UTCyo
kobehoneylyn
2023-03-18 08:16:16 +0000 UTC
