Early update for September 11, 2023
Added 2023-09-10 03:55:00 +0000 UTCi didn't kill my wife
Comments
Well, he is Jewish.
Alexandra Falk
2023-09-11 02:35:12 +0000 UTCJoe: "Whether you forgive me or not I'll still feel bad about it."
Beck(y) Chonigman
2023-09-10 16:35:47 +0000 UTCBetween Dorothy, Beth, Sarah, and Sal, Joyce clearly likes domineering women, much like how she likes tall men with hearts of gold.
Andrea Andrew
2023-09-10 15:30:11 +0000 UTCI don’t think her response of ‘gotta break them up’ is ‘right’ but it is her looking for the way to protect Joyce from the danger she is perceived to be in. On the other side, I’ve felt that Joyce has her rose-tinted glasses back on for Joe. She’s really been going on a ‘ahem’ leap of faith that he’s truly changed. We as readers can see the conflict in Joe since winter break. Joyce has had a couple weeks at best of ‘New Joe’ and it’s been equally filled with ‘Joyce’s sexual awakening’ and admitting physical attraction to someone. Not a spiritual desire to find a future husband in accordance with Gods plan for women/marriage, but just admitting (severe) physical attraction. And, in Joyce-fashion, she’s been running for the deep end. I’m not saying she’s wrong about Joe, but she’s changed very quickly towards him in a month or so in comic time.
Preventer Wind
2023-09-10 12:17:38 +0000 UTCOne thing to keep in mind is that for us, this story has gone on for something like 10 years. For them it’s something like 5-6 months, and they don’t know everything we know. Nobody else knows the interactions between Danny and Joe where Joe has shown his conflict/confusion. Sarah doesn’t know about how Joe was Joyce’s emotional support through all of the parent bs and divorce. And yes, people have been forcing (sometimes helpful) opinions on Joyce, but she’s also undergone very radical change in just 6 months, and that hasn’t begun to truly settle out in a persons psyche. I can easily see people perceiving Joyce as on unstable mental ground and wanting to protect her. Has Sarah acted fairly towards Joe? No. Has she acted in line with her character? Yes. Is she justified in taking a sudden shock to seeing a formerly emotionally blind objectifier of women in a room alone with someone she has become very protective of (and who has needed that protection strongly before?). For Sarah to go from “Here’s a guy who was only on my radar as a penis going after any woman he could” to needing to see him, without any sight of his development, into someone who not only won’t hurt Joyce but might help her isn’t radical. And this was just dumped on her. No preparation, no explanation, just “Wham: Manwhore in the room!”
Preventer Wind
2023-09-10 12:08:06 +0000 UTCThe only way Sarah can do it is to seduce Joyce. She already said Sarah is cute and pretty, and she's all apologetic...
Amós Batista
2023-09-10 10:35:38 +0000 UTCI like the complexity of the situation! -On the one hand, IF Joe was the monster he is made out to be (we the audience have additional insight on this), then maybe Sarah would be well justified. -Joyce has grown a lot, but people can still remember when she showed up super naive and probably needed more protecting and help than she does now. -On the other hand, Sarah is kind of a sourpuss and a grinch when it comes to trusting in loving relationships. She has her reasons based on her past experiences. But is it really fair for her to hold her yardstick of “it always ends in tears” to everyone around her? -Sarah was made out to be way more of a monster than she really was trying to survive her roommate’s drug addiction, but Raidah’s crew blames Sarah rather than the roommate probably because it’s easier. Could Sarah have compelled the dean to expel her roommate for personal convenience? Of course not. My point here is that although they’re not exactly same situations, since Sarah knows what it’s like to be unfairly/excessively crucified for something in the court of public opinion, maybe she’d realize that maybe Joe’s reputation as a sex fiend exceeds his actual badness also. -I can’t think of anything Joe has done that rates as a Genuinely Evil on my radar. I can think of quite a few ways he’s showed little pieces of kindness or compassion.
Shane Wegner
2023-09-10 09:46:13 +0000 UTCunrelated to this strip but i love your icon!
Sam G
2023-09-10 07:30:52 +0000 UTCSarah indeed means well. However, like Dorothy she is not prepared for Joyce making decisions that don't align with her perceptions of her. She can't believe Joe would want to be better because Joe himself said he had no intention of ever trying. So, naturally, she thinks that Joe is long-conning his way into Joyce's pants and for Joyce's sake she will try to break them up.
The Toad Sage
2023-09-10 07:18:00 +0000 UTChot take: i love all three of these characters and understand that they are coming from a well intentioned and good hearted place. anyway they all 3 should kiss
Toby (she-they)
2023-09-10 05:58:17 +0000 UTCSarah does not feel unstated trust
Bagge
2023-09-10 05:58:10 +0000 UTC"May God grant me the strength to help where I can, the inability to accept situations my help wasn't requested, and the unwillingness to discern the difference!" -Sarah's prayer (riffing off a similar Calvin and Hobbes prayer) (Which I think was maybe based of St. Francis of Assisi)
Shane Wegner
2023-09-10 04:55:53 +0000 UTC@Jayne: Let's also not forget that just over one week ago - in comic time - Joe was ready and willing to try to exorcise his feelings for Joyce by fucking a Joyce-substitute. If Liz hadn't withdrawn consent (and, whatever Joe's numerous prior faults, violating consent definitely has never been one of them), he absolutely would have gone through with it, and none of the Joe/Joyce interactions leading up to this would even have happened.
Harold
2023-09-10 04:55:22 +0000 UTCThe comments section: Sarah is going to do an evil Machiavellian scheme and ruin Joyce and Joe! No! Quelle horreure! Sarah, actually: Liz! I need you to come back to IU and seduce Joe! Or Joyce! Or actually, Joe AND Joyce! And then stick with Joyce and convert her to respectable lesbianism—Dorothy why are you crying in the background? Dorothy stop CRYING I am TRYING to break up Joyce and Joe! Get your sobbing out of here! Go drink water!
Sajuuk-Khar
2023-09-10 04:50:22 +0000 UTCPeople are being super harsh on Sarah, and yeah, from an omniscient perspective she's probably being unfair to Joe and rude to Joyce. But I do also feel like it'd probably take me awhile to become comfortable around a guy who, until recently - 100% genuinely and truly - was a misogynist piece of shit who only valued women as things to have sex with. Who literally had a hit list that reduced every woman on campus to a number of how fuckable he thought they were. How could you *not* be thinking of that number every time you saw him from then on? As BBCC said above, one of the most memorable interactions Sarah had with Joe was his musing that he could *make Joyce better by having sex with her*, a statement that was so vile it's stuck with me for the 10-odd years its been since I read it last, and one that's not ameliorated at all by the fact that he was almost certainly didn't really care about helping Joyce in any way and was just trying to justify his desire to fuck her. And remember - Joyce went on to be almost sexually assaulted by another man who only saw her as something to put his dick in. Joe is not that guy (Ryan?), but he wasn't as far apart as some people would like to pretend. Has Joe made genuine, difficult, ongoing efforts to change and be a better person that he was before? Absolutely. Does everyone have perfect awareness of that? Of course not. Do women *owe* Joe forgiveness for the shit he pulled, do they have to allow him into their lives uncritically, do the need to never ever bring up how he thought and acted just scant months (weeks!) ago? Joyce's feelings are important, but so is everyone else's. Dorothy got this same kind of criticism, too- that she was disregarding Joyce's autonomy rather than being genuinely uncomfortable around Joe and with the idea that her friend was interacting with him. The problem here is not just that Joyce has seen Joe's growth and is willing to give him another chance. The problem is that Joe being an important part of her life means that he's now much more present in the lives of a lot of other people who are close to Joyce, and they are put in the uncomfortable position of a) having to put up with someone they might otherwise wish to never interact with (and should be under no obligation to) and b) are concerned that Joyce might put herself in a position to be hurt and used by a man who has *admitted* to using and hurting women. Is he better now? Probably, but you can't (well, shouldn't) blame people for not taking that instantly on faith.
Jayne Lindgren
2023-09-10 04:42:57 +0000 UTCY’all it’s not like Sarah is actually any good at relationship kung-fu
Sajuuk-Khar
2023-09-10 04:37:40 +0000 UTC
