"The Tholian Web" Full Reaction! - Star Trek: TOS Season 3

"🎶Tranya?" Stop, I'm dead😆

Preaching to the Horse's Mouth

What seems to be the issue?

bunnytails

Trish

Ohh I see!

bunnytails

Due to the era it wss all text based - no graphics at all. First psper printouts, later screenshots. I think I have some manuals around somewhere...

John DiGiantomasso

Oh, that game sounds amazing! Any surviving photographs of it?

bunnytails

Oh no! Glad you got your power back! 5 days without power!? I would be so restless. But I suppose I would be taking a few walks and catching up on reading/cleaning. A forced vacation... I probably actually need one of those since I won't take one voluntarily.

bunnytails

I always liked this one. And amazingly, this was a "low budget" episode. If you think about it, all existing Entetprise set (or the Enterprise sets pretending to be the Defiant.) No planet scenes, no alien costumes (just space suits), no guest stars - just the regular crew plus a handful of generic extras. They did a lot here with just "the regular stuff." As a side note, back in my younger days in the 1970s and 80s as a starting software developer (before it was common - we're talking years before the IBM PC or any "personal computers" at all!) I got involved with my buddies working on and playing a real time, 3D, multi-player Star Trek game that we all built. My ship (when I played as a Fed) was the USS Defiant. So this episode holds a special place for me.

John DiGiantomasso

A good episode, but the floating Kirk was bad effects even back in the day. I always had a hard time getting past that and appreciated your laughing. The Tholian web was good adder to the story in that it gave a more Sci-Fi injection of the web-like force field, which was great concept for the day even though it lacked clarity in the plot. All-in-all it is not a very re-watchable episode; although I re-watch anyway. It's great to have power back so I can finally watch this! Just got power back late yesterday (day 5). Having air-conditioning while the roof was being replaced the second half of the day was a blessing. Looking forward to the next installment.

Mark Gosine

Sulu and Chekov are besties!

bunnytails

McCoy’s spacesuit is, I believe, the only surviving suit prop. It was auctioned off with a ton of Trek props a few years ago. I can only think of a few Space Madness episodes in TOS, I suspect this one was just to add a layer of urgency and to also explain the death of Defiant’s crew. I loved how you noticed Sulu cradling Chekov’s head after his collapse! “Uhura”, according to “Is There in Truth No Beauty”, means “freedom”. Once again, love watching Trek with you!

Trilogian

I understand. Thanks for replying. :)

SuicuneSol

Thanks, Will :)

bunnytails

Nice :)

bunnytails

I was not comparing the whole episode to The Naked Time, as they are vastly different episodes. Merely that many episodes use the same trope of "crew are acting out of character due to some external force." It's especially apparent/tiresome with Chekov being made to be overly aggressive in two episodes that are nearly back to back (this one and "Day of the Dove". I think we all have our thing that makes us go "here we go again". For me, it's this particular trope. For Alex of The Target Audience it seems to be "crew vs God-like beings" which is something that I personally enjoy and haven't grown tired of yet.

bunnytails

I was searching about after watching the episode, and in a comment somewhere I saw a good explanation for Spock and Bones saying they did not see the episode. This person said it was because they thought the message was perfect the way it was and didn't need any further changes that Kirk might feel the need to make if they had said anything.

bunnytails

Thanks again :)

bunnytails

Agreed, the Spock and Bones scene was great :)

bunnytails

McCoy seems inconsistent because he's a stand-in for the Western anti-Vietnam War movement, with its bitter denunciations of the generals as throwing lives away for the sake of medals and power. McCoy says they'll pin a medal on you and give you command of the Enterprise, (if he does what McCoy wants, which is supposed to persuade Spock, a Vulcan, (a stand-in for Robert McNamara) who are completely non-ambitious except as a reward for scientific achievements.) I guess he's saying that Spock is going to destroy the enterprise trying to rescue Kirk to make it look good on his resume but if Kirk is there how does Spock get command of the enterprise... Spock probably raised an eyebrow when video Kirk suggested that Spock trust McCoy. The Tholian Web has little to do with the actual web. There's hardly any discussion about how it works or what is the likely outcome. The effects of the space collapse on the Enterprise power and crew also goes by with no analysis or suspense. Great tranya callback! But again, no drama or suspense in the madness subplot. Maybe they will revisit the Tholians in a future series that you will definitely not have someone spoil it for you. Nichelle Nicols has such beautiful smooth skin that it's amazing whenever she wears something more revealing, like the hospital gown in sickbay, showing her lovely shoulders. Less entrancing is the dress she has on in her quarters, that looks like a muumuu. Thank you.

William Terry

can’t argue with that. It’s a bittersweet season

Skyman's Follies

next re-re-mastered version 😉

Skyman's Follies

heh heh... Do you know what the name "Urhura" means??? In Swahili it means... "Peace."

Carlos Stevens

I think this is probably one of the best and most significant episodes of The Original Series. But I wish they had done more with the Tholians; a fascinating race. FYI, the Tholians are a crystal based life form; something they didn't get into in this episode. Their crystalline form is why they have no trouble existing in the area of space that drives humans mad.

Carlos Stevens

S3 is definitely better than I remember it, but the roughness remains apparent.

Lee

It's too bad the remastered version couldn't fix the original presentation of 'ghost Kirk.'

Lee

agreed, Lee: Coon's magic touch is missing from the S3 episodes. I still think most of these episodes have been pretty good so far, despite his absence.

Skyman's Follies

Yeah, agreed. Would love to have seen it presented in a different way. Maybe a locked down optical effect instead Kirk shaking all over the place. But, here I am 2nd guessing the masters again...

Skyman's Follies

Filmed some years later, I'm sure Kirk's inter phase appearances would have been more eerily presented.

Mark Chrisco

I've been waiting all year for you to react to this episode. It's arguably one of my favorite episodes in the series. Regarding Kirk and Spock in this episode, they DO swap roles a bit in this episode, but in this case I consider it good writing. Usually Spock is the logical one who would make the choice to benefit the many over the one. And McCoy is the emotional one who wouldn't abandon their friend. But Spock obviously DOES care for Kirk but would rather cloak his arguments with logic than admit his own humanity. McCoy--who recognizes that Spock is not acting logically--must present the logical stance that Spock is rejecting because McCoy is dealing with the direct consequences of it. I really don't know why reactors burst into laughter whenever they see ghost Kirk flailing about. Was it really that funny? Heck, you even made me laugh without understanding why. LOL I guess I'm a little disappointed you compared it to The Naked Time because there's so much more going on in the episode. They had some really nice space suits, we had a ghost ship, we saw Spock and McCoy struggling to fathom Kirk's death, and we saw Uhura in her own room all dressed up. I also like the Tholians as antagonists. I just like the way they were introduced.

SuicuneSol

At the risk of appearing to bash on Season 3 more than I already have (albeit obliquely), the writing is simply not as consistent here as in previous seasons. There are several S3 episodes we've already covered that are good but would have been far better with a deft hand polishing the scripts (cough*GeneCoon*cough), and it's fair to expect those polishes would have increased consistency. Having said all that, I think it's fair to point out that McCoy is a contrarian when it comes to Spock being in command. We saw this for the first time in "The Galileo Seven" when McCoy sides with Boma, etc. in pushing back against Spock's orders. It is a consistent source of drama, although it doesn't paint McCoy in the best light if he's only opposing Spock as some general rule and not for a rational reason. As for the Tholians' lack of necessity, I can't argue for their presence in the episode. The only things they contribute are an opponent that complicates Kirk's rescue and the title of the episode itself. I'm sure NBC was happy to see some action in the form of the truncated phaser battle and perhaps even the SFX involved in the spinning of the Tholian web, but from a story perspective they were in no way required. Furthermore, their threat is dismissed far too easily considering all the tension they created. "Using ship's power" to escape an inescapable web is as much a deus ex machina as we've seen in the entire series to date. My theory regarding Spock and McCoy gaslighting Kirk about not having seen his final orders is that it was an attempt at a light comedy ending of the sort popularized by Gene Coon. It also allowed them to cooperate in a way they rarely do, and at Kirk's expense. Other than that, I can't explain it.

Lee

Gregory, until you wrote that, I had never questioned why Spock and McCoy lied to Kirk at the end. That is a GREAT question. Maybe they wanted to make it seem as though they had never given up on saving Kirk, so they didn't want to admit they watched his "after-death-tape". But, yeah, good call out.

Skyman's Follies

First of all, this must have been the episode you watched before Godfather 2. :) Love that dress! I've always really enjoyed this episode and glad you did also. It's one of the best episodes from Season 3, complete with drama, a tense situation, and all kinds of the Star Trek tropes that we have known and loved for years. I thought you brought up some good points I really hadn't thought about before. First, I agree with you about the Tholians. They added the additional pressure to the situation, but -- at least as far as I am aware -- they had nothing to do with the loss of the Defiant. I think they were just here to add on to the pressures the Enterprise was having -- create the tension between Spock and his 'we need to stay to get the Captain' and McCoy 'we will be trapped and dead if we don't get out of here now'. All it served was to increase that pressure. Did it help? Sure, but it wasn't needed in the grand scheme of things. That said, the Tholians are an interesting race, that -- much like the Gorn -- are sadly not seen much in later shows, and you have to look at the books and the games to really know more about them and as a race. Going back to McCoy, I understand what are you saying about how he seemed to be contradicting himself here, but I'd argue it's less about the writers and more about McCoy himself. As Spock loves to point out, he's a VERY 'human' human, that is, he's very irrational and can change his mind from episode to episode as it strikes him. He strikes me as the kind of person who would look at a problem one way one week and then another way a week later. That's just how he is. You may be interested to know there is a follow up/sequel to this episode, but it will be a LONG time before you see it, as it didn't happen until the show Enterprise. Regarding the overall plot device about a sickness/something affecting the crew -- I DO agree with you, but you just have to get used to it, as without spoiling anything I can say it's used a LOT in later shows. :) Yes, this episode is one of several that has some real strange/weird Kirk acting and doing strange things -- you've already seen the next episode, so I can say it happens a lot in that episode also, LOL. A book I picked up at a Star Trek con a number of years ago (the same one I saw James Doohan at) about how Star Trek has influenced and effected modern society brought up the point that Kirk's taped message to Spock and McCoy about his final wishes is perhaps the first time the idea of a 'video will' is seen -- someone recording their last will in video format as opposed to paper, which is now accepted by law and has been used by a lot of people, even seen in some famous court cases. But speaking about that, I admit the thing that confused me the most about this episode was I never got WHY Spock and McCoy decided to lie to Kirk about not seeing that final wishes message. I think it helped both of them -- why lie to the Captain about it? As a final thought, Wikipeda for this episode mentioned "that political scientists have compared the metaphor of the entrapment in this episode with the deep challenges politicians and administrators feel when confronted with competing factions and lobby groups." It's a interesting idea I admit I hadn't thought of before.

Greg Polander

Good episode - Kirk is trapped in a black hole - one heck of a web though - Spock was kind of cold hearted but showed kindness in the end. Thanks again for the reaction - lots of kindness to ya 💞 me gotta rake a few thousand leaves

dave zink

Pretty cool episode. Certainly not bad, if, yes, a bit redundant with another shipload of crew going mad. But, lots of good character moments. Most of it directed again by Ralph Senensky who was ultimately replaced on the production. But the work he did do was superb. Definitely the one episode with the least amount of Kirk and relying heavily on the rest of the cast. Great FX work (though some of Kirk's phasing in and out is clunky and, as you say Bunny, he looked like he was trying to eat something a couple times there). But the highlight is that scene with Spock and Bones in Kirk's cabin. It's the heart of the episode and maybe one of their best scenes of the series together.

Skyman's Follies