One Piece Episode 305 UNCUT REACTION!
Added 2024-08-12 09:43:17 +0000 UTCComments
There isn't much problem to begin with like i explained
Sanji Joestar
2024-08-15 08:06:10 +0000 UTCCarson is totally right, Rob Lucci should've just been named as Hattori (Dove) with his introduction and it would've fixed all the problem tbh.
boredbeck
2024-08-15 04:33:57 +0000 UTCThis whole episode made me cry laughing, oh my god.
Briana Roop
2024-08-14 08:15:45 +0000 UTCi love the jokes cause when i first watched i didn’t even question that shit, it was so crazy just fuck them soldiers
EndlessBoredom
2024-08-14 05:14:16 +0000 UTCYeah, I agree with you. I think they were making fun of it because of its placement but I think they understood the reason it was there and what it was showing.
ChocoBoshi
2024-08-14 00:11:23 +0000 UTCOkay, just to respond to some comments, I agree that the story already showed us the the WG was evil at this point. Oda is simply insisting on that. I'm also not saying that this flashback is perfect and shouldn't be criticized. It is very heavy-handed and unsubtle. But I still think it's worth looking at what it was truly trying to accomplish, even if it didn't do it very well and, in that regard, I thought their interpretation was unsually off despite the fact I agree with them most of the time.
Humanoïde
2024-08-13 21:42:08 +0000 UTCYeah i guess lol Personally I don't see it as a backstory properly speaking Just a flashback showing that aspect of him and per extension the government and its buster call. Really cool eitherway
Sanji Joestar
2024-08-13 11:20:43 +0000 UTC"i had to shorten some things" well if that isn't an explanation for why things are how they are idk what is
Yagi di Hoshi
2024-08-13 10:58:18 +0000 UTC@Yagi Di Hoshi Possible Personally i just think it comes back to the context of the world around the characters Informations don't travel much if not at all as the four blues are separated and the grand line itself is a bigger stretch of islands that are hard to travel to from one another. The Sea train was revolutionary in that sense as it also allowed the government to rally Water7 to their Island of Enies Lobby which then also leads to Impel down or Navy HQ. So the world is separated enough that changing name for an agent only known by the WG is just a detail they don't bother with i guess Fukuro and Jabura were introduced talking about how their information got leaked cuz he can't shut his zipper😂 Their mission was to go undercover and assassinate some rebellion leaders, and with the leak they had to kill 23 more people instead of the 3 they were assigned to. It was reported in the newspapers and Jabra had to explain everything to Spandam. That's also an element indicating how information is easily manipulated as the journal only reported the deaths and their implication was absent. Also shows how careless they can get but ultimately it doesn't matter to them cuz they can just mislead informations and get away with it.
Sanji Joestar
2024-08-13 10:31:45 +0000 UTCmaybe the editors wanted oda to get to wrapping it up
Yagi di Hoshi
2024-08-13 10:00:52 +0000 UTC"You know what, fuck people!" I had a laugh at that
Vaby da Kat
2024-08-13 02:30:58 +0000 UTC@Gino 😂
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 23:57:24 +0000 UTCAlso Chopper mentioned in Water 7 that Carnivorous Zoan are more bloodthirsty than regular zoans, im not sure if Lucci had that fruit back in his backstory, but if not, then it only added to his viciousness...but the Kaku and Kalifa fight was actually bad imo, im actually thankful to find guys like Carson who breaks down things i overlook due to mindlessly watching One Piece because im wanting to create a fanfiction series in YouTube of One Piece would flow IF the inconsistencies and criticisms had been addressed (and some theories that I think are better and fit the story happened)...thats why i love watching and reading people who dissect and criticize One Piece because i believe it could be better than it is.
boredbeck
2024-08-12 23:19:34 +0000 UTCCouldn't have said it better myself
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 23:11:39 +0000 UTCThe name thing is fair questioning yeah But hey the world is vast their main source of information is newspapers that are already manipulated😂so it's an easy answer imo
Sanji Joestar
2024-08-12 22:22:51 +0000 UTCI think that the unsatisfying Occam's Razor answer to this question is that Lucci and the others, being professional agents under deep cover, would have taken different names while undercover, but that Oda just decided to simplify the story for whatever reason. Maybe he thought that five fairly significant characters suddenly all changing their names could have been confusing or hard to keep straight for casual readers or viewers who miss episodes all the time. I mean, there are already tons of characters and it's already hard to remember all of their names -- hence Yoyoyoi and Chapapa.
Isaac Sato
2024-08-12 22:17:30 +0000 UTCThe backstory was not good, I was just saying what Lucci as a character is, since Carson was asking why was he killing the innocent. Lucci is just bloodthirsty and it reflects with his DF ability...being in CP9 gives him the freedom to do what he wants, which is exactly like Luffy, but on a sinister side...i was reminding Carson coz he was confused why Lucci would go out of his way to be captured and didnt kill the pirates beforehand, and waited until he was taken as a hostage only to do a petty thing like killing unarmed hostages....because Lucci just wants to kill....i dont like the backstory as well though.
boredbeck
2024-08-12 22:04:31 +0000 UTCOkay, so Oda had the character seeds planted early. How does this make it good though?
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 21:54:05 +0000 UTCYes I deleted the first comment. Sorry bro
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 20:20:02 +0000 UTCI think the confusion might be coming from the idea that marines or govt agent are the average people when they aren't The only ''common person'' we've seen know about CP9 is Kokoro and it was just rumors to her at the time, and she has ties to Tom and co. who had to deal with the government in the past so even her case is special, and she also works for the Sea train that transport government agents Besides that it's government agents or Marines and them knowing or hearing about it makes sense. For example the two Guards at the Blue Station gossiping about who it could have been were stopped when asking any information and didn't get to see who ''they'' were But they still heard that there was something as the agents were neeeded to move from Water7 to Enies Lobby in some capacity
Sanji Joestar
2024-08-12 16:47:36 +0000 UTCYour most recent comment posted twice for me and then the first one was deleted. It was before and after my 4th comment asking you to bring the topic to discord. It feels like you're just going to keep ignoring my request though so I'm going to stop checking back here. It would have been nice to hash this out more, its frustrating feeling like only half of what I'm saying is getting through to you and having to deal with the delay.
ChocoBoshi
2024-08-12 16:33:09 +0000 UTC?
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 16:27:50 +0000 UTCI'm not sure why you reposted that
ChocoBoshi
2024-08-12 16:23:25 +0000 UTCThe 7 Warlord System isn't the only example you can pull from. From a subconscious level to the watcher / reader it is so painfully obvious how CARTOONISHLY EVIL the world government is depicted, that characters such as Aokiji, with his NUANCE, stand out greatly.
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 16:19:26 +0000 UTCPick another example and bring it to discord
ChocoBoshi
2024-08-12 16:14:50 +0000 UTCThe point of the warlord system was to have pirates deal with other pirates. The goal was to save civilian and Marine lives. That in and of itself is not evil. This implies that these are pirates that the government couldn't stop themselves and so rather than throwing more lives at them they enlist them and focus their piracy into something more productive for the WG. This isn't an inherent evil, when it is introduced we don't know enough to make that call. Corrupt? maybe, but definitively evil? No. Please join the discord, I don't want to keep scrolling down here.
ChocoBoshi
2024-08-12 16:09:19 +0000 UTCOnce again, think to real world examples🤷🏽♂️
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 15:50:01 +0000 UTC@Sanji Joestar, The whole 7 Warlord System in itself should tell you that this system is corrupt. Does allying yourself with seven powerful PIRATES👈🏾 in exchange for pardoning their past felonies (explained in episode 31) not seem fishy to you?
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 15:45:23 +0000 UTCIt just begs the question of how it was kept secret if the undercover guy didn’t change his name, and is known far and wide as one of the most ruthless killers in the world gov’t ranks Also if it’s not that big of a secret who he is, how did iceberg, a guy who is hiding critical information from the goverment and is vigilant about their attempts to steal the blueprints, how likely is it that iceberg wouldn’t have heard the stories of the evil rob lucci? A man who by the way owns one of the most popular ports and who routinely builds warships for the world government, thus dealing with marines most likely on a daily basis Just the more we learn the more silly it is to believe that these tales would have made it everywhere but Water 7
BOLDcast
2024-08-12 15:18:44 +0000 UTC@Matthew Gilroy, If you wanna keep discussing join the Boldcast discord. I'm happy to elaborate more there but it feels like you're not really getting what im saying and I don't really feel like refreshing here forever.
ChocoBoshi
2024-08-12 14:51:11 +0000 UTC1. Yes. As I said. End of LRLL (Aokiji showing up) and Water 7 = "Set up" and Enies Lobby = "Pay off". This whole plot thread is based off a "Set up" and "Pay off". The quality of the set up has been better than the Pay off so far, in my opinion. 2. The effectiveness of the attack, or the strength of a move / character isn't the be all and end all to create stakes. For example in Naruto, the characters had a harder time beating Kaguya than Hidan / Kakuzu, but what was the better "plot thread"? Also, please don't always criticise Toei as a scapegoat for mitigating Oda's faults. It's getting old. Doesn't matter if they prolonged it, the core of the issue is still there. 3. The biggest threat was for Vivi not being able to save her kingdom. Stakes are indeed subjective, but Oda's plot points are not. Objectively, Oda did not introduce plot points that cheapened or changed characters into the BAROQUE WORKS fights. Mr 2 Bon Clay was a gag character with serious moments. Kaku was a serious, bad ass character who got turned into a gag. Carson mentions the detrimental effects of such a change in a previous discussion. 4. This is all subjective, which you just criticised me for. I can say that I care less about these factions than other people due to their actions throughout the saga: Galley La tried to kill the Strawhats due to their gullible response to a mere rumour, the Franky Family stole our money and beat up Usopp both physically and mentally, and the Giants were introduced relatively recently (stark contrast to Vivi who was with us for many episodes before the Alabasta arc)
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 14:44:35 +0000 UTC@Matthew Gilroy There's a big difference between hiding a mistake and triggering actual genocides Until Alabasta the govt hiding who defeated Crocodile just tells us theyre too prideful to admit they were helped by pirates In no way does it tell us that they're evil nor to what extent And Skypiea being separated from the rest of the balance of powers doesn't indicate that the world government is behind the void century By then we just know history is missing The Ohara flashback is the confirmation of hunches and elements dropped here and there like the Poneglyph research being forbidden But even then we dont know why it's forbidden Because if it can resuscitate weapon Even a ''Good'' government would not want ppl to dig that up
Sanji Joestar
2024-08-12 14:18:49 +0000 UTC@Isaac Sato, I agree, its certainly not the first thing that an individual has done under the WG's authority that lets you know they aren't what most people would consider real 'justice". I do think that the events of Robin and Lucci's backstories show the WG to be a much more insidious organization as a whole than previous events have lead us to believe. @Matthew Girloy, Yes, but like you said, we have to use 300+ episodes of context to get to the conclusion you made on the events of Alabasta where we had less than 130 episodes to draw from. I don't disagree that we can look back at previous events with new eyes. I'm saying that at that time we didn't know for sure. It is an interesting topic, whether showing a fake stability is a good or bad act. In a just system it could be a good thing to do because it makes people less likely to panic. Knowing what we know now we can be sure that it was simply to put forth an air of power and control but at the time we couldn't say for certain that that is what they were doing. You should join the discord so that we can talk with less of a delay. its annoying having to refresh and scroll a bunch.
ChocoBoshi
2024-08-12 14:18:24 +0000 UTC@ Isaac Sato, yes I definitely agree with your point more about the idea of the repetition of the evilness of the World Government👍🏽 I see this as a more convincing point than @ChocoBoshi's argument that we didn't know the World Government were evil. I think that's false (as I've argued)
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 14:18:15 +0000 UTCPersonally, while I see where you're coming from, I don't think it's fair to say that Lucci is just a blind follower. He definitely has a rebellious streak. I mean, he trolled his superior officer by not killing Chimney and Gonbei so that Luffy could find him, he killed Nero on the train, and earlier than that he even said (paraphrasing) "I'm in CP9 cause I get to kill people". I also don't think that he was incentivized by the WG to kill the soldiers in his flashback; I think that that was actually him just going rogue. At the end of the day he's a complete lunatic who wants to fight and kill people and he'll do things off the book or deliberately misinterpret the spirit of his orders to do so.
Isaac Sato
2024-08-12 14:18:10 +0000 UTCTo add to the comment above, I could bring real world examples into this. But I'm sure these are pretty obvious already.
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 14:14:14 +0000 UTC@ChocoBoshi I'm using what we know so far across 300+ episodes. I admit we do have to read between the lines a bit here. Oda has been using many real-world allegories / themes in this story. Take Skypeia, for example, and it's dialogue on Colonisation and the oppression of a race. For the Crocodile example, they announced to the world his crimes, yes, but wanted to give Smoker the credit. This is important. It seems like they were trying to maintain a balance of sorts. There was never going to be a way for them to cover up Crocodile's actions once he had been defeated, so why not let the world know? Why not make it seem that Crocodile was a bad egg in a stable system? Almost like a declaration that he had nothing to do with the WG? "We made a mistake from letting him into our system, but we move on" is what I took it as
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 14:12:20 +0000 UTC1 Changing arc doesn't suddenly make the plot thread limited to said arc that's not how the story works Calling it an arc is just a term to identify the progression But there's a reason this is the Water Seven SAGA as plot threads from literally Long Ring Long Land are being carried throughout You can't just arbitrarily cut it and say it stays at Water Seven that's not how story progression works 2 Each move Kaku pulled goofy or not was effective against Zoro Miss Doublefinger literally picked Nami's weapon and gave it back to her while she's making flower bouquet appear The big downside to the Kaku fight is mostly elongation from the anime but overall it's a good to decent fight imo 3 Fair but that's mostly subjective, and subjectivity is not really what you're arguing here when you say Alabasta's stakes were higher Which relates to the rest of the points you raised Yes the stakes are dependant on the Strawhats investment in them And in Alabasta the biggest threat was for the people of Alabasta which we know a few off Here the stakes are literally related to each strawhat and ppl they befriended It's like having multiple factions playing a role in our investment in the same way Vivi did Galley La, Franky Family, The giants and the Buster Call the biggest threat this far
Sanji Joestar
2024-08-12 14:10:53 +0000 UTCLucci's backstory was pretty bad, yes, but I don't think it's because we already knew the WG was evil. We already knew the WG was evil when they showed us Ohara. Was Ohara lacking because it didn't make us suddenly realize that the WG was evil? No, of course not. And we knew that the WG was evil when they blackmailed Robin, and when they tried to kill Iceburg twice, and when they used Franky's ships in a false flag, and when they covered up Alabasta, and we will still know it when they reveal all the pure evil things the WG continues to do in future episodes. Doesn't make any of it any less impactful. Lucci's backstory wasn't great, but it wasn't supposed to make you have a sudden realization. It's just another brick in the wall. It's repetition intended to make you hate and feel extra disgusted with the WG. Oda's deliberately beating us over the head with it so that we're chomping at the bit to see them take an L here. He does it every arc, it's why it's always so cathartic to see Luffy beat the bad guy at the end.
Isaac Sato
2024-08-12 14:06:36 +0000 UTCWell Lucci told Spandam in the begining: he's in CP9 because he is allowed to kill without reprocassions. He's a psycho.
Richie the Lion
2024-08-12 14:00:25 +0000 UTC@Matthew Gilroy, Where is it said that the WG covered up his crimes? As far as we know they didn't know about them until the events of Alabasta. The WG are the ones that let the world know of those crimes when they took him into custody. Yes, they let Smoker take the credit but that isn't inherently evil. I think you're just using what we know about them from future events to retroactively alter information from that time in the show.
ChocoBoshi
2024-08-12 13:57:10 +0000 UTC@Matthew Gilroy You seem to misremember Alabasta The world government didn't disregard Crocodile's actions Because they didn't even know about it. Mr0's identity was unknown even to the Top agents until the reveal of Utopia So they can't be disregarding something they didn't even witness And by the time they knew he was already defeated, cuffed and sent to prison So what are they covering here exactly?
Sanji Joestar
2024-08-12 13:57:08 +0000 UTCLucci said in the beginning of Enies lobby that within the World Government every kill is justified. That’s his only allegiance and purpose in life.
CypressxSG
2024-08-12 13:41:40 +0000 UTC1. Each arc in One Piece has been defined by their location up until this point. When we change location, we change arc. That's why I'm saying "it was the last arc". Also, I'm comparing Water 7 vs Enies Looby because Water 7 is the "set up" and Enies Lobby is the "payoff". In my opinion, the "payoff" isn't living up to the "set up" that was established. The strengths of the "set up" (I.e the fracturing of the crew) do indeed bleed into Enies Lobby, so you are right that they are connected in clear ways. 2. I agree with this point in some ways - the enjoyment of these fights are subjective. However, do you really think that Miss Double Finger's fight is the most egregious? In my opinion, it's Kaku's. We cared about him way more. He was a fan favourite. I think the "nerf" was felt more with him than with Ms Double Finger simply based on the fact that I cared more for his character. 3. Yeah, I mean this is also subjective. I'm indifferent towards the Nami vs Kalifa fight. It's OK to me. Zoro vs Kaku was the one that annoyed me the most. I think the Strawhats vs CP9 fights this arc are 2/4 for me. I really like Chopper and Sanji's moments. 4. Lindsey was talking about the raising of the stakes, and the soldier getting shot was brought up as an example. I'm saying that stakes started sooner and we're done better in previous arcs. You brought up a brilliant point about Vivi and it works to your detriment - I care more about Vivi then I do about Galley La (who tried to murder us because they were gullible and believed rumours), the Franky Family (who stole our money and beat up Usopp), and Sodom /Gomorrah and giants (who are cool I guess). 5. Buster Call. You're right that the stakes have risen now that Buster Call arrived. Problem is is that we're 40 episodes into the arc. You say the Strawhats were getting wrecked, and while we did spend 20 episodes fighting the CP9 agents, there were weaknesses within those episodes that lowered the stakes for me 6. They are indeed alone fighting thousands. I hate to break it to you but in most stories, NUMBERS DON'T MATTER. A number's game doesn't raise stakes. Characters in the arc that you're attached to raise stakes.
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 13:40:43 +0000 UTCI think it may be more that he was cooking, it just wasn't something people would be hungry for at that time.
ChocoBoshi
2024-08-12 13:32:54 +0000 UTCWater Seven and Enies Lobby are one and same story just because we changed locations the situation didn't just stop at Water Seven so i don't even get why you're saying '' it was the last arc'' Next Just because the Mr1 fight was threateningly hype to Zoro's life doesn't suddenly mean the fights there are better than in here Again you can agree to disagree that's up to your preference But in terms of ''nerf'' the Miss Double Finger fight would be the most egregious of them all Nami's fight with Kalifa was not only an actual exchange but atleast a decent fight with a conclusion that fits Nami and how she fights while convincingly opposing Kalifa's ability. And i'm pretty sure it's been said multiple times in the comment sections but Kalifa just defeated one of their ''strongest'' member so her cockiness made perfect sense as she was mostly fearful of the Climatact. I don't know why the soldier that got shot is brought up in terms of Stakes? That's the ennemy side. I explained how the stakes we felt for Alabasta were mostly from Vivi's attachement to her country Alabasta is a fantastic arc but the main focus of the stakes isn't on the people FOR THE STRAWHATS But mostly through and For Vivi(with ofc exceptions like Koza Toto and the royal guards) The 4 guards up and dying doesn't raise stakes if they didn't even alter the situation and just slowed down Crocodile. Here we have an entire group of ppl we cared about, either the Galley La guys or the Franky Family and Sodom Gomorrha and the Giants The buster call arriving after the crew fought is literally Stakes rising as we're already wrecked, Chopper can't even get up and they're alone vs thousands
Sanji Joestar
2024-08-12 13:19:29 +0000 UTCYeah, in the sbs corner he said he rushed it because of pacing, so maybe that was why it felt weird, or maybe he wasn't cooking and his editor stopped him in time.
Gino
2024-08-12 13:19:14 +0000 UTCI'll keep it simple. Firstly, the stakes throughout the CP9 fights were not high. Why is this? It's simple. most of CP9 was nerfed or their character completely changed for a cheap gag. They nerfed Kaku and especially Kalifa by giving them gimmicky devil fruits and not using the Six powers to their full advantage. Their portrayal in Water 7 was far more menacing. They felt like killers. IMPORTANTLY AND OBJECTIVELY this is not something that One Piece always does. Mr 1 was a threat from start to finish. Same with Mr 2 Bon Clay (even though HE HAD GAGS). This is a HUGE problem with this arc IN MY OPINION if I'm being honest. In addition, the threat of the Buster Call has only been felt from episode 300 onwards (ironically after the CP9 agents had been defeated). The problem is, is that we spent 20 episodes fighting these agents with stakes not being as high as they could have (due to reasons previously mentioned) and the threat of Buster Call is only now being felt damn near 40 EPISODES into the damned arc. Finally, you say the guards in Alabasta were random. That's fine if you think that, but so was that soldier that the Vice Admiral shot. MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE FRACTURES IN THE CREW WERE STAKES CREATED IN THE WATER 7 ARC, NOT ENIES LOBBY🤷🏽♂️
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 13:06:31 +0000 UTCDisagree about the Buster Call, The crew was proving their strength to powerful opponents but also fighting against time before the Buster Call starts That alone raises the stakes a whole lot as we literally had one way in (the Rocketman) and had to scramble an escape route with a stolen Navy ship. They're as of right now alone waiting for Luffy, while exhausted from the fight and still have to defend the ship until Luffy arrives meaning fighting hords of Marines and we know one battleship can hold like a thousand people. The threat here is directly aimed at the crew, which we're more invested in than, the citizen of Alabasta as a whole who at the end of the day were mostly higher stakes in terms of Numbers but them dying doesn't affect us directly, it's mostly how it affects Vivi that makes us relate. The 4 Tsumeregi guards were the most randomly added deaths ever because they did literally nothing and didn't exist prior to their introduction and deaths like 2 3 pages after with some miraculous poisonous doping water. Not to mention the already existing fractures within the crew that got transported to Enies Lobby, like Robin Usopp and the Franky situation. The stakes are huge as it involves the world as an ennemy, the buster call as a nuke command and the crew's future with Luffy literally not caring about his body rn. Overall the stakes are high and the conclusion unclear. I dont really get it but I see that your comments basically circle around the idea that you have to explain why Enies Lobby is not better than previous arcs in things that it executes just differently.
Sanji Joestar
2024-08-12 12:54:34 +0000 UTCCarson I know you think this backstory is a bit goofy, and I definitely agree with you on that. However, I noticed you guys defended the backstory, as well as the episode as a whole, by there being "death", which Lindsey said is something One Piece doesn't do often and is good at this point in the arc. I disagree with this remark, based on the fact that these situations have in fact happened in past arcs, not just in flashbacks (One Piece flashbacks are a killing playground💀), but also in REAL TIME. For example, in Alabasta when those guards ate that drug to make them significantly stronger, and Crocodile didn't even engage them in combat, and they essentially sacrificed their lives for nothing. The point here is that previous arcs did in fact have these stakes, and I'm criticising this arc for stakes not being as high as they could be, or raising stakes at a late point in the arc when they should have been raised while we were fighting the CP9 agents. Previous arcs such as Alabasta had these stakes THROUGHOUT THE BAROQUE WORKS FIGHTS, and even gag-based characters such as Mr 2 Bon Clay came across as a real, dangerous threat. I should also mention that Zoro's fight with Mr 1 is another example, as Mr 1 was a threat from start to finish - a STARK CONTRAST to Kaku. Sorry for rambling😂
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 12:42:49 +0000 UTCWe already know the World Government are bad people. The most basic example of this is their approval of the 7 Warlords system through Crocodile, A LITERAL PIRATE ("BAD GUY") for Christ sakes. Does allying yourself with seven powerful PIRATES👈🏾 in exchange for pardoning their past felonies (explained in episode 31) not seem fishy to you? They let him get away with his war crimes without batting an eye. Once again, it's OK to have criticisms of this arc. Lucci's backstory was lacking. Not everything has to be defended
Matthew Gilroy
2024-08-12 12:30:03 +0000 UTCLucci is a special case of messed up man. These World Govt. goons are irredeemable, makes you questions all sorts of people who chose to take that route.
EOussama
2024-08-12 12:21:38 +0000 UTCNot just Lucci thinks weakness is a crime he thinks bieng a weak soldier is a crime he even said it, that justice should not surrender to evil that’s why he killed the soldiers who surrendered
Moddie
2024-08-12 11:43:37 +0000 UTCSbS question on Lucci's sense of Justice Sbs Vol 47 Q: In Chapter 422, it said that Rob Lucci killed 500 hostages and took the captain's head. Why did he have to kill the 500 hostages? - by Wiper is the Coolest!! Oda: I know, why? It's terrible. Why couldn't he just kill the bad guys? However, I had to shorten some things to make the pace move quicker. Lucci is a man who believes that "weakness is a sin". Therefore, if these soldiers were weak enough to be captured and expose the country to danger, they could do the same thing again in the future. So he arrived at the answer that these weak soldiers did not have the right to live, and took action accordingly. It's a hair-raising philosophy.
Sanji Joestar
2024-08-12 11:42:04 +0000 UTC"I'm in CP9 because it gives me license to kill" This is what Rob Lucci said at the start of the Water 7 and Enies Lobby Arc lol
boredbeck
2024-08-12 11:36:03 +0000 UTCI think you kinda missed the point about Lucci. It isn't about showing he is a bad guy, it's about showing how the World Government is a bad institution. Earlier, you might have assumed that Spandam and his father were just bad actors, but having a kid raised by the government murder a bunch of hostages shows that they are actuallly representative of its general shittiness. He even has the symbol of the government on his back, that's pretty on the nose...
Humanoïde
2024-08-12 11:29:29 +0000 UTCLucci is completely amoral and a lawful evil villain. He does not have a personal sense of morality like Aokiji or Smoker. Rather to him, “justice” is whatever the World Government tells him to do. He is like a blind worshipper, his belief being “Dark Justice,” which is eliminating everyone who gets in the way of the WG and enforcing absolute obedience to the will of the WG. Because these hostages failed to protect their country, they are weak and unable to surveil their purpose in his eyes. ANYONE, be it good-natured citizens or scummy pirates, pilfering and causing conflict that becomes a risk or problem for the WG, are all criminals and should be eliminated. It's a very twisted sense of code that he follows, and yeah, he might seem a bit psycotic, but that is who he is. Also, at the age of 13, your mind doesn't think like an adult with pure logic and rational reasoning, so some of what he does is just based on pure instinct, and his screwed-up adolescence shaped the person he is today.
Artemis
2024-08-12 11:27:24 +0000 UTCI know it's mostly for jokes but for the secret identity thing It makes sense that marines would hear about Lucci and be like ''That Rob Lucci?" They know factions like CP9 exist as they were welcomed by men in black(govt. agents) and marines at the beginning of the arc. The secrecy is mostly for the common people of the world. Which then creates rumors
Sanji Joestar
2024-08-12 11:13:02 +0000 UTCYou guys mentioned it way earlier about the Marines and how they were the word Justice on their back and define it how they see it fit(Lucci literally has his burned into his back) Even tho technically they're all under the same government and marine Justice with a big J Lucci's a representation of that idea and that's why he's described as ''Dark Justice'' The end justifies the means He didn't just kill the soldiers Because they're weak, but because they surrendered, leaving the entire country without their force of defense which can be seen from a cold and external point of view as not only failure, but also a stupid thing to do as they ''betrayed'' their country. That's how Lucci sees it and that's why the Buster Call is a bigger representation of that. '' You can't see people on a map '' They erase history, civilizations, and human lives because it's for ''Justice'', as Ohara was framed as plotting to destroy the World. It's a way more broadened conversation when you start to piece the different forms of Justice seen so far.
Sanji Joestar
2024-08-12 11:10:09 +0000 UTCTotally agree that the way Lucci's flashback thing was shown here was a bit goofy. Like you said, it all makes sense but the logistics of how everything went down are just a bit wonky. Funnily enough I think that if more time was spent fleshing out the intricacies of the conflict and Lucci's motivations it may have come across a bit better. But the middle of the arc's climactic battle obviously isn't a great time to get into a pretty unneeded side story like that so it makes sense that it wasn't more detailed. Lucci and CP9's brand is "Dark Justice" which basically means "justice" at any cost. We look at it like "why didn't Lucci just beat the pirates and free the prisoners" when, from Lucci's perspective that was never his goal. He always planned to impose "justice" on both the pirates and the 500 soldier prisoners by executing both groups. This also lines up with the vice admiral that shoots his own crewmember for his hesitation. The logic being that a moment's indecision could end up costing more civilian lives than the amount of marine lives it would cost to achieve the goal of subduing the enemy. "What's the use in saving 1,000 marine lives if, due to Nico Robin escaping, a war is started that costs the lives of several hundred thousand civilians" is his thinking. I'm sure you guys already know this, its just fun elaborating in your comment section.
ChocoBoshi
2024-08-12 11:06:47 +0000 UTCThe navy ships look alike yes but the main differences are sizes the battleships are shown to even be bigger than the whole bridge robin and franky are standing on and the people commanding them are mostly admirals/vice admirals. this is the first time a battleship class one has appeared (other than nico robins flashback and probably when they showed the main navy base) Smoker and previous navy captains only have the standard similar to the merry sized ships. And yeah I agree the flashback of lucci was hilarious and I only really appreciated it on like deep character analysis videos or some shit. But I do know a lot of people like that so beware. Loved the discussion
Edword
2024-08-12 10:41:41 +0000 UTC
