FIRST TIME WATCHING: LOK S3E6&7!!

I was thinking the same thing at the Metal Bending scene. She struggles ALOT, Im not sure what the hang up is in her bending. Like look at the spirit training from last season. She was ok at it, but its not like she was taming spirits left and right. I actually like what a competent bender she is because she struggles in so many other places. And she doesnt even naturally destroy everyone she goes against in a bending fight anyway. I like Nat, dont get me wrong. But maybe shell finally change her tune in Season 4 since we know how bad that gets...

John

@Sean "By contrast, Aang's personal journey and development/training almost always organically unfold alongside the story, and the two believably influence each other." Well that's just not true in the slightest. Aang's journey progressed for the exact reasons you claim Korra's progressed. For the plot.

Michael Rockenfelder

Okay, I found the video. But there are tons of excellent analysis on LOK on YouTube by the likes of Hello Future Me, Just Write, Thomas Vicarro and Sage's Rain, to name a few. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W100HRfa9Y4

Robert Bonfante

My interpretation of LOK is that we catch up with Korra's story where she is much further along in her development than Aang. That was a deliberate choice by the creators, Koneitzko and DiMartino. So much of the training that Aang had to go through happened off screen for Korra. Korra also had teachers throughout her childhood. Aang didn't. Maybe Korra did struggle with her training -- she certainly struggled with airbending. Korra's story begins where, in terms of training, around the point Aang was at when he met the Combustion bender. That's when her story begins. She had already mastered 3 of the elements. She was having trouble with the final element. There was no Fire Nation to push the story along to this point. No one destroyed her tribe the way Aang's air nomads were killed off. She wasn't frozen in a ball of ice for 100 years. Korra benefited from a much more normal upbringing and the show made that obvious, at least for me. So let's talk about Mary Sue, because you (Sean) brought her up. A Mary Sue is a vague argument frequently brought up by incels to discredit a female character that people don't like for whatever reason. I mean, that's really when the term pops up. You don't really see professional critics use that term. It's not an expression brought up in other circles unless people have to defend a character from being called a Mary Sue. LOK makes very clear that the protagonist should be an accomplished bender right out of the gate. Her development comes from within. It is that struggle which invalidates any "Mary Sue" argument. LOK came about when leading female characters weren't common in American animation. Nickelodeon felt that they were taking a big risk with Legend of Korra because they weren't sure if boys would be excited about a show with a female protagonist. LOK came out around the Gamergate era. Sooooo... For the record, you never hear anyone call Superman a Gary Stu even though as a character he is incredibly OP. No one wonders how Luke Skywalker went from getting his ass kicked by Vader handily in the Empire Strikes Back to winning a one-sided battle with his dad in Return of the Jedi without even one clip of his training (apparently he was training while best pal Han was a frozen popsicle trophy to a slug). The Mary Sue argument is such a lazy argument that it's hard to take seriously anyone that utters it. One could just as easily mention that a protagonist (either male or female) is so overpowered that there is no tension, which is a very valid criticism and isn't at all a toxic take. But that's certainly doesn't happen here. Korra isn't overpowered, even though she had three elements mastered. She had difficulty with all of her opponents. So the Mary Sue argument is invalid. There was an excellent video on YouTube (my apologies, I forget which one it was and I don't strongly feel the need to link it) that talks about the creators goals for Korra. They very deliberately wanted Korra to be, in many ways, the opposite of Aang. They didn't want to tell the same story all over again with a different character. They wanted to avoid another Hero's Journey, which is very common in the fantasy genre. They set out to make something new and different, and they new they might alienate some of their original fans. But, judging from the many different reactors I've seen react to this show -- I would have to say they succeeded in making a great show that strove to be different and to break new ground. Natalie herself gives a very positive review of this show by the end of season 3.

Robert Bonfante

Well quite literally all of these points you've made are easily debunked by an understanding of Korras character, and good writing. You can not like a character or show and that's fine, but Korra is very far from a Mary Sue. Thinking otherwise shows a big misunderstanding of her character. This video debunks and proves that far better than I could explain in words. Highly recommend you give it a watch. https://youtu.be/s7P9qTdVnMY?si=ildXrZDUdCAcIzAV

Lorenzo Baxter

I 100% get where Nat is coming from with this, and she's right alongside a lot of the Avatar fandom in her feelings. No, Korra's issues aren't physical, but rather mental and emotional. But that doesn't differentiate her from most other protagonists of any other fictional universe out there. Watching a character like the Avatar struggle with something they *should* be able to do, that they're *supposed* to be able to do is compelling storytelling, and tailored specifically to the bending universe. Aang struggled with earth bending because it was diametrically opposed to air bending. We were given an in-universe explanation for that which made total sense. By virtue of that explanation, Korra should have had a stumbling block at fire bending, but the very first episode opens with her being declared - albeit reluctantly - a full-trained fire bender by the White Lotus. So if the main character, right out of the gate, defies an established principle of difficulty, it hints at the fact that she's being set up - intentionally or otherwise - as a Mary Sue. And that's not compelling or relatable storytelling. And I'm not saying Korra fits all the criteria of a Mary Sue, but when it comes to her training and development as an Avatar, she's checking a lot of boxes. Aang took time to learn earth bending because it was stylistically and philosophically opposite to the way he was raised (and even that journey was a bit of a letdown because it was resolved in a single day by a high-stakes moment that was framed much more comedically than dramatically). He took a decent amount of time learning water bending because he was learning from someone who wasn't a teacher, who didn't have a teacher herself, and who was basically learning right alongside him. He struggled with fire bending because he was afraid of its destructive capabilities and his own ability to wield it safely. All of these things are either relatable or believable explanations (whether explicitly stated or not). By contrast, we see Korra bending all three of the four elements as a literal toddler in first scene of the show. The only times Korra really struggles with bending are when either the plot demands it - not because it's an organically developed journey of character growth - or when she gets in her own way, which both wears thin REALLY fast and isn't all that compelling to watch. If they wanted LOK to be another 'coming of age' story for another young Avatar, that would have been fine. But it's never really executed that way; they basically gloss over 90% of it, and within the first half of the first season, no less. Korra could have faced every single threat in LOK as a grown woman and fully realized Avatar, and it would have been just as compelling - hell, even more so because any struggles she faced could have naturally derived from the unfolding of events. Instead, she quite often only struggles when the plot demands she struggles. And then she stops struggling when the stakes demand she succeed. In short, Korra's personal journey and development are usually artificially influenced by the plot, and it takes away from the few moments that aren't while nudging her toward Mary Sue territory. By contrast, Aang's personal journey and development/training almost always organically unfold alongside the story, and the two believably influence each other. And to be fair, this isn't inherently the fault of Korra as a character or her writers; most of the blame can be traced to the well-known issues with and bullshit from the studio. But it still doesn't change the fact that it ultimately makes Korra a weaker protagonist.

Sean Irvin

I mean, it definitely isn't a filler, but Natalie as a first time viewer would not get the significance of this episode. The importance of the Original Airbenders isn't made obvious until the end of the season. So, to Natalie, they are leaving the plotline involving Zaheer, thus the feeling of a filler episode. I never said this episode was a filler episode. I only said it was filler-ish. But I let the other shoe drop in the sentence immediately afterwards about the important groundwork -- the lessons of a young Air Nation learning to work as a team. As for Tenzin, I don't really have an answer to your analysis. That is spot-on. And in light of that, I will grant you that regress wasn't the best word. A more accurate argument is that Tenzin for much of the season takes two steps forward and one step back in his efforts to rebuild the Air Nation. In my previous comment, I'm trying to see this season the way Natalie is seeing it. So I think her issues with this particular episode stems from it going away from the main plotline and she sees Tenzin's difficulty as a plot device to enable that. For me personally, I've never had a problem with this episode. Time with Tenzin and fam is time well spent, and it can't always be 24/7 Zaheer time, because all of that intensity would be exhausting. I am always good with time spent on character development.

Robert Bonfante

Original Airbenders could not be farther from a filler. It's quite literally a part of the primary plot point of the season so far, which is rebuilding the Air Nation. And how does Tenzin regress? Tenzin never needed to learn to "relax" or anything like that. Thats part of its character. His actual development came in season 2, where Nat kinda glossed over in favor of finding Jinora. Him not needing to be a reflection of his father, cause for a while, that's what he was trying to be. He's not trying to be that at all. He's now trying to rebuild an entire nation. Teaching adults who aren't related to you, and a lot of them at that, is very different from what Tenzin knows. So he hasn't really regressed at all. Making misguided mistakes, like going overboard with Bumis advice is exactly something Tenzin would do. When is one other time in the show before this He's done something like this? He literally hasn't.

Lorenzo Baxter

The creators of ATLA were very much trying to tell a very different story in LOK than in the original series. Part of that was to make Korra almost the complete opposite of Aang. So they made her a bending prodigy. Except for airbending. And meditation, and the Spirit World stuff. But her getting metalbending so quickly just feels natural to the character they created. I would have been surprised if Korra would have struggled with it.

Robert Bonfante

TBF, Zaheer's wanting to assassinate the President was only uttered in one blink and you miss line of dialogue.

Robert Bonfante

I do agree with Natalie a little bit with the Original Airbenders episode. For this storyline to work, Tenzin does have to regress a little and it can be frustrating to watch. Personally I enjoyed the episode, but I do find it filler-ish. But there is some important groundwork being laid here that will pay off big-time at the climax of this season. The creators of ATLA wanted Korra to be, in many ways, the opposite of Aang. They understood the risk involved but they wanted to tell a different story than the original. So Korra began her series already having three elements mastered. She is hot-headed, impulsive, and bold. It took her forever to learn how to meditate, something Aang took to naturally. All of the challenges for Korra are in her character development. How does she go from being an impulsive teenager to being a true leader? A lot of reviewers and reactors point to this season where Korra truly becomes that leader. And I agree.

Robert Bonfante

I'm not sure why you'd want Korra to struggle with bending of all things. It should be abundantly clear by now Korras issues are not physical, nor should they be. She's literally the avatar. Aang learned and became proficient in Earth and Fire in under a year. At the same time, mastered Water bending in a few months. And, he literally was a master Airbender at 12 years old. Like come on 😅 Korras greatest strengths is that she's incredibly physically inclined. From a writing and character standpoint, it wouldn't make any sense at all to see her struggle with metal bending. Plus, it's not like she magically mastered it. She simply knows how to do it now. She still has a ways to go before we can throw around the term of "master" so it's really not that big a deal.

Lorenzo Baxter

these tops are slaying miss natalie, just thought i'd let you know

Ariana Mitchell

I wasn't referring to the first msg more the snide comment ' you sound like a fun person ' which depending how one takes it can be seen as an attack on ones character and personality, hope that kinda explains but at the end of the day I merely posted to wish nat a wonderful week nothing more so it perplexes me why anyone feels the need to comment on it in the first place but it is what it is . Now the matter is closed

Ian

@Danishprince I know right haha. People like him aren't worth wondering about, he's just sad and lonely

Ian

I'm very curious to where you see the attack though? All he did was mention that he's loving this weeks content and didn't in any way say that you're wrong for not enjoying it or anything similar..

Danishprince

The poacher said that the queen ate her fathers pet bear. That was Bosco. The pet bear of the earth king from Avatar:the last airbender. RIP Bosco

Tijmen ter Beek

xD I don't want to stop watching!! xD Very happy that I'll be able to continue tomorrow! :) Really enjoying this season with you.

Logan Kerlee

Season 4 is the really big season for character development - especially for Korra her growth from end of S3 to S4 is insane.

Oliver Cotchin

So on ur schedule it says ur going to watch Halloween. Make sure it's the 1 from 1978....also keep in mind it's 1 of John Carpenter's 1st films so the budget wasn't very high. **Even tho it's a "slasher", it actually set the standards for "slashers" + Carpenter was actually making more of a suspense/horror like Alfred Hitchcock's "Psycho" (it even has "Psycho" star Janet Leigh's daughter Jamie Lee Curtis as the star).

Trevor S Bright

ya she's naturally a waterbender but has an earthbender personality and is really good with earth and fire because of it.

rayman

she just got it out of nowhere tho. Also they redconned it to be like what you are talking about. It being more about personality than about element as was established in atla

DarquanJr

Damn!

Ian

Oh... they'll get there...

Robert Bonfante

I agree but I also think that Su DID try and Lin was the one who blocked herself off from her family to the point where Su didnt even get the opportunity to talk to her. It makes sense to me that after years of being rejected the opportunity to say sorry, at this point Su has trouble saying it because she tried for so long and it fell on deaf ears everytime

Mathies

reminder that Korra DID struggle a lot with air, for a whole season, because it was opposite her personality. She is very similar to Toph personality wise, she's actually much more like an earth bender than a waterbender to me. So I think it makes sense that metal or earth is not something she had a hard time with.

Mathies

We were in this same sort of situation when she watched The Mummy and she pranked us that it would be the Tom Cruise atrocity

Ben Wheeler

I think she just doesn't want characters to feel like they learn a lesson throughout the episode and then an episode or two later it seems like they still make the mistake or something similar. It's like how there are a lot of moments where S2 Korra felt like character regression and it was hard to watch her do stuff she should know not to do.

Dayvon Rose

Lin has nothing to apologize for. Su was the one who committed a crime. Su disfigured her sister. Su never apologized. She’s like the addict that wants all their bad behavior to be water under the bridge without doing the work to earn back trust. Lin was the victim. It’s easy to be gracious and forgiving when you’re the one in the wrong.

K

Korra not struggling with bending im fine with cause I don't want it to be a repeat of the last show learning all the elements and having a ahrd time heck Anag only had a hard time with earth he got Fire and Water down pretty easy he jsut stopped fire bending cause he hurt katara that was it lol everything came easy for him too don't forget

Narutoanime16

I thought she was born armless and figured out how to use her bending advantageously, kind of like Toph.

K

Dude you know nothing about me so leave me the hell alone I'm allowed an opinion just because you don't like it doesn't give you the right to attack me , clearly you're upset because I didn't start an argument with you which it seems is what you were hoping for so back the heck off

Ian

It's definitely implied that Sakka cut off the water benders arms in zahir's group right?

Eric Wallace

love these two episodes, can’t wait for the rest of the season

TokyoLopez

Natalie, can you please watch Barbie?

Alvin Everett

I mean, your sister permanently disfigures you and never really apologizes for it? And my mom sweeps it under the rug? Yeah I wouldn't be terribly happy either. It feels like your break really hurt your understanding this one. Korra asked Suyin point blank last episode what happened and **she lied about it,** she isn't blameless at all in this and still denies her role in it, that's not gracious at all. Pretending you didn't permanently scar someone isn't good? I also REALLY don't get your confusion about the aftermath. She confronted decades of pent up trauma and felt better about things afterwards, that's literally the point of therapy. Surprised no comment about Zaheer wanting to assassinate the United Republic President either.

Geoffrey of Monmouth

What a great week! Now I just hope it's the original Halloween :D

Danishprince

She doesn't so anime due to a bigger risk of issues regarding copyright from Japanese studios :)

Danishprince

The comment about character growth seems like nitpicking. You want these characters to be perfect?

Evan

hey Nat, would you consider watching fullmetal alchemist: brotherhood after korra? it has great story and character building.

Craig D

I don't really get the feeling that anyone is going back on their character development

Francesca White

I mean why would lin need to apologize tbh, she never wanted to be there in the first place everyone forced her to be there when she made it clear she did not lmao.

Jayshawn Robinson

2 episodes a day!? Holy shit you’re the best Nat

Alex

We have the same name but that might be all we have in common, I'm loving the lineup this week! OG Halloween set up so much of what Horror/Slasher films are today.

Ian

Have you not noticed that Ming Hua doesn't have arms?

Evan

Ian

Happy Monday Nat. Hope you had an awesome weekend. Looking forward to more Korra and Sherlock, and kicking off Natmares on Friday 😊 Some interesting developments in today's episodes, but everything still feels a little too light-hearted at the moment for the seriousness of the situation. Hope things start to ramp up and get more dramatic and complicated soon.

Darryl Low