Feedback Request - Magic Card Design!
Added 2023-12-07 05:09:47 +0000 UTCHey guys!
In the past Illustration Support Packs, I've included illustrated images for magic items and gear and, occasionally, some write ups for what I thought that item could/would do.
Someone asked, if I would be releasing anything at the higher tier level, and so I started talking with one of your fellow Patrons who does card design work, and I'm working on a design for magic cards to release as part of the Illustration Support Packs, in addition to the basic images.
SO -- this is the basic design so far. I will mention the elements/decisions we have so far, some ideas and then would love to hear your thoughts and ideas on what you like and any suggestions you might have!
Structure Design Decisions (Front Side):
1. We wanted the front of the card to be pretty clean, so most of the real estate is dedicated to the image itself.
2. The bottom of the card has the item name, its type (wondrous, weapon, armor, potion), and its rarity (Common, Uncommon, Rare, etc...).
3. The top of the card has a symbol for what kind of magic item it is (rod, staff, wand, weapon, armor, etc...), then two fields -- one that denotes if it needs attunement or not, and another that denotes if it's a cursed item or, perhaps, has some other quality we may want to place in that field.
Structure Design Decisions (Back Side):
1. We wanted the back side to have plenty of room for descriptive text and mechanics.
2. We are going to add the illustrator's name at the bottom of the text field (where it narrows) to give the artists their credit.
3. Logo at the bottom.
Some Ideas:
I was thinking that we'd want to include a location for the item (one hand, two hands, shoulders, back, torso, waist, feet, hands, etc...), so that people who play games where they use rules from supplements like Darker Dungeons would have specifics on where items were located for tracking.
Questions:
What do you think of the design?
What additional elements or information, if any, would you like to see?
Would this be useful for your game, either as a handout or just visually something interesting to have/use as a reference?
Let me know in the comments below!
Comments
The name should be at the top, this way when looking through a deck, you can fan them out and look at the top for the name. With something like this there should be 2 versions, one for the DM and one I can hand to the player after they "know" what it is and it does. I would not want the word cursed to show in the player version, they should not know it is cursed. I love to be able to hand stuff like this to a player. It takes the let me look this up out of the equation, here is the item and what you know. Speaking of different version, depending on the item. I would want a card that is rather plan and just describes the item, then another with more detail. Here is what you found, this is what it looks like and here is a description of it. No magic information on it. Later I can hand out an upgraded card with the magic properties. With this in mind I would want some other cards like this that are for non-magic items. Here is the sword, or what ever it is. I could even see using the glider example, here are theses backpack wing looking things. No they do not detect as magic, that is if someone has detect magic. In short I love the look and the idea.
Bob Schrempp
2023-12-10 15:25:43 +0000 UTCAppreciate the lengthy and well-thought reply. I will definitely take those points into consideration and see how we might be able to easily integrate those into the design.
Jeff Todd
2023-12-08 16:42:25 +0000 UTCAdding the glider was just part of the sample, and it wouldn't be needed as additional text. The description (if not the image) will tell the viewer what the item actually is, and it wasn't the intent to create a bunch of subset types off Wondrous Item.
Jeff Todd
2023-12-08 16:39:45 +0000 UTCThese could be digital or physical, though, yes, the physical version would ultimately be more useful as a handout, etc... We will probably included the wear location simply as a meta data point, so that the corresponding spreadsheet to which all the items will feed could be filtered in that way (i.e. show me all one-handed weapons or shoulder items, etc...) We'd also decided to add item weight and item sample value on the back (instead of simply mirroring the front).
Jeff Todd
2023-12-08 16:38:09 +0000 UTCThis is less about card layout, and more about text layout and Information Design of that layout. Let's talk Properties, as coming form somebody who has written and refactored over 1000 5E magic items. For example: Retributive Strike of Necrosis. While wielding this sword, when... Once this property has been used, it can't be used again until you complete a short rest. With the 2024 rules, WotC has moved HEAVILY into tagging properties for spells, even more so than in the past. It remains to be seen if they are doing the same with magic items, but the information I have is that they are. We'll know in a few months. Properties make glancing at and looking up a item description MUCH faster, just like they do spells. The symbology doesn't always cover everything, such as special attunement requirements, or unusual features that tend to arise in Very Rare and Legendary items. Yeah, when you read it the firs time, you read it. But subsequently, months later, a player (or DM) just wants to jump to the part about the health recovery from necrotic damage of a property that can only be triggered by a reaction. In other words...it doesn't come up often. If that is buried in a sea of text, and not labeled by a property, it is much harder (and slower) to lookup. Similarly, just as we have optional Curse property blocks for items which have curses, there should be optional Attunement property blocks for items that have special attunement rules (and absent from the vast majority that do not have any such special rules). For example: Attunement. You must spend a short rest upon a glacier in order to attune to this magic sword. Again, it's about quick look-up. Let's say 5 months down the road a PC dies, Instead of that sentences being buried in the first paragraph somewhere as 1 of 4 sentences, it jumps out at you. Now, the DOWNSIDE Of all of this is it the physical text layout increases in size. It is less compact, for sure. But, there is real substantive value3 of having Properites for everything the item does. After all, having information at your fingertips for quick lookup is WHY we have iconography for spells and why the community has "made up" their own for magic items. Ensuring everything that a magic item does lies under a Property is a natural extension of that, and I dare say, even more useful come game time. The Standard Properties (all are of course optional): Attunement. Charges. Spells. Sentience. Personality. Destruction. Curse. Legend Lore. I've also adopted other short-hand, such as if a property is charged, you'll see: Swift Strike (1 charge). Strike Empowerment (1-3 charges). All properties are BOLD and Italicized. The jump out at you, and it makes scanning the item / card much, much faster. For example, the player may remember they can add variable d6 strike bonus damage, and remember that they expend 1 charges per d6, but may not remember HOW MANY charges they can expend (and the limits may differ depending on the property used). Well, putting the number of charges in () after the property name allows that to be looked up much more quickly. They don't even have to read the property description. Obviously all of this is non-standard, but again after authoring over 1000 items, and play testing them over dozens of players, the feedback has overwhelmingly been that a longer form that is more organized is FAR more useful than a compact form which you have to browse / read every time to get the information out of it. Which is exactly why you have seen for Feats and Spells for 2024 rules, you've seen the designers embrace the use of properties, and IMO they should do the same for magic items. They already were for certain things obviously, but the natural extension here is to ensure EVERYHING an item can do falls under a named properties, so that it has a name, and can be quickly looked up. Again, less useful for Common / Uncommon and even some Rare things which may only do 1 or 2 things. But for Very Rare and Legendary items where you can end up with items that can do 4-5 things, some of which are non-standard, having these is a huge boon. And, as with all good Information Design; consistency is key. Even if 80% of items don't *need* this, having it there at all times trains the mind and makes it glean information more quickly and accurately.
Ryan Rogers
2023-12-08 15:07:30 +0000 UTCThis is perhaps just a personal preference, so it it as you will, but I'd recommend against subcategorizing or subtyping Wondrous Item with a (subcategory), for example: Wondrous Item (glider) Is it a Glider? Or is it a Backpack? The point is, if you don't commit, you don't get it wrong. :-) There's a reason why this is only typically done for Weapons and Armors since they have fixed subtypes. A magical weapon IS exactly one of a Glaive, Shortsword, Dagger, Net, etc. A magical armor IS a Studded, Chain Shirt, Splint, Plate, etc. I don't see the benefit that comes with making up new subcategories, especially since they'll drift over time. After all, Wondrous Item *is* already the catch-all category when a magic item is not one of: Weapon, Armor, Staff, Wand, Rod, Ring, Potion, etc.
Ryan Rogers
2023-12-08 15:02:13 +0000 UTCI assume these are intended to be physical cards (wouldn't make much sense for a digital handout IMO). I'd also assume they are for players - so, when they find something and subsequently identify it, they get the card as a reference. I don't think you'd need the location as, for most items, that'd be fairly obvious. However, I do think you need to add the item's weight (for encumbrance purposes) and, perhaps, a size? I'm thinking of the situation that you'd have to be of Medium size to wear/carry something.
Steve Cansdale
2023-12-07 21:52:59 +0000 UTCFor sure I think it's a great start, and like I said I love everything you do. I know I also said there's a lot of space concerns in terms of text but depending on exactly what these are for I think it could be cool to add at least one complication or hook. Like the leather is from supple young pterodactyl so any dinosaur kin will take immediate notice of its scent. Or: the Craftsman who made this used it as collateral on a loan and there is a very unhappy bookie looking to repo it.
James P
2023-12-07 06:16:46 +0000 UTCThanks, James! I'll definitely consider all of that, as we continue to refine the design. I'm sure there will be several iterations and an evolving process, so I'm 100% sure the first one will be different from the 20th. =)
Jeff Todd
2023-12-07 06:11:57 +0000 UTCI think it's a great idea but if you know it's a feedback. I think the the name of the items you get the top of the card and then the tags like wondrous etc should be at the bottom. Are these cars for the DM or the player. If they're for the player I think putting wondrous and uncommon in smaller font are okay, but that information might actually be useful to the DM to not give away super powerful items by accident so I think it should get equal billing with attunement in terms of size. If these cards are for the players should you be calling out cursed item is that a secret? If these are going to be physical cards someone's going to hold I think the text side needs a lot more editing because it's pretty small. And I do also find the font in the boxes where it says attunement to be hard to read on my phone. Maybe it would be easier as a physical card but I think definitely consider font readability. Also you might want to think about optimizing the use of real estate based on the picture. For example in this one there is a lot of empty space. If you did like a backpack with the wings happen for old you can zoom in a lot see the item bigger and better and have less blank space. For all those comments I think they look nice and a great idea. Love to see you always making different things.
James P
2023-12-07 05:59:18 +0000 UTC
