Movie Mindset 03 - Smoking That Shit That Made The Pictures Small: Wilder Classics
Added 2023-05-10 11:00:04 +0000 UTCHesse and Will review two essential classics from director Billy Wilder: 1944’s Double Indemnity and 1950’s Sunset Blvd. Two films narrated by their dead protagonists from beyond the grave, each exploring Wilder’s cynical and dark views of the American character, and our obsessions with fame, success, murder & rapidly quipping while wearing a smart hat.
Comments
Gritting my teeth that you guys didn't mention the Apartment in the epilogue
Cameron Van Berkum
2025-06-23 16:49:18 +0000 UTCcan’t believe you missed “smoking that shit that made billy wilder”
nadia
2024-04-21 23:07:46 +0000 UTCHilarious how the worse thing in the world for a young guy in the 50s is having to fuck a rich milf :/
M.R. Alchemist
2023-06-04 20:42:35 +0000 UTCJust wait till you start listening to Seeking Derangements. It will make you life Fun.
Adam Geddes
2023-06-04 10:59:18 +0000 UTCYes! I fucking love Christine! I thought I was the only one!
Brad Plumb
2023-06-02 08:25:15 +0000 UTCGoddamn, before movie mindset I don't think I heard any chapo eps with this lady on, if there are any. But she is funny as fuck and her and Will and great chemistry. Will describing the lighting as "everything is caressed by darkness" is a beautiful turn of phrase. Also she really really knows her shit. She even seems to have more knowledge on the subject than Will. That's no knock on him just a huge huge compliment to her.
Eamon Short
2023-06-01 13:57:34 +0000 UTCI saw Barbara Stanwyck in Night Nurse, a pre-code production, and my life has never been the same. Both movies discussed are incredible, as was the discussion!
Arielle Curtin
2023-05-18 15:18:28 +0000 UTCHoly shit these are now two of my favourite films ever, they don’t make ‘em like this anymore folks!
Seymour Butz
2023-05-15 22:16:20 +0000 UTCI just watched Double Indemnity, I don’t think I’d have enjoyed it half as much without listening to this first for all the subtext. My favorite line is after Neff declines to become an auditor Keyes says ‘I thought you were smarter than the rest of them, it turns out you’re just a little taller.’
I am become reply guy
2023-05-15 16:49:30 +0000 UTCOn Joe Gillis being a horrible guy: Yeah, but just like everyone else in Sunset Boulevard he’s a product of the Hollywood machine. Made cruel by his desperation for fame and success and the complete apathy of Hollywood toward those aspirations he can only see people as a means to an end. Joe has become a housewife to Norma Desmond, trapped by his financial situation he becomes dependent on her. You can see his eventual murder in the same light as a jealous husband who kills his wife before she can leave him.
Adam Foster
2023-05-14 09:21:20 +0000 UTCYes, bring back trains!!!
Jennifer Reft
2023-05-14 06:21:51 +0000 UTCIt would be cool if you announced the films for the coming week in the notes, so people have a chance to watch before they listen.
snafujesus
2023-05-14 01:23:13 +0000 UTCAnother great ep this combo has perfect chemistry
L
2023-05-13 20:23:03 +0000 UTCJohn Dahl also did Rounders, giving it some noir vibes which is one of the reasons it’s great
J.P. McD.
2023-05-13 19:35:16 +0000 UTCprobably hack to point out but double indemnity feels pretty 1:1 with crime and punishment
danny
2023-05-13 14:54:17 +0000 UTCOinking. Hooting, oinking and hollering rn
etienne
2023-05-13 01:57:00 +0000 UTCNo there is more coming, Chris and Will both basically confirmed more than the schedule thread
Claire Casey
2023-05-13 01:47:08 +0000 UTCIf you haven't all 4 Will appearances and both Hesse appearances on Sleazoids are free eps from them and they obviously slap
Claire Casey
2023-05-13 01:45:11 +0000 UTCIt's so funny will mentioning just seeing Witness for the Prosecution because that's literally the movie I saw on Sunday for the first time ever, not joking.
Jake Law
2023-05-12 18:17:13 +0000 UTCGreat episode. I watched Sunset Boulevard last night for the first time and loved it.
Jesse Spacco
2023-05-12 16:04:09 +0000 UTCwow only 2 more MM eps? limited edish slop, I'm already squealing for more
etienne
2023-05-12 12:43:48 +0000 UTCAlso, there's a straight line from the Apartment to Wong Kar-Wai
Christopher Price
2023-05-12 07:59:17 +0000 UTCThere were 2+ generations of bored middle-class housewives with money, time and little recourse for divorce. Those women must've conjured some classic murder plots with the odd insurance salesman.
Christopher Price
2023-05-12 07:58:16 +0000 UTCI was at this cocktail bar in Hanoi last week and Sunset Blvd was on the tv. I wasn’t familiar with it, but got curious and googled Joe Gillis after seeing the credits.
MKatieUltra
2023-05-12 04:27:39 +0000 UTCGuys this is great! More movie mindset really enjoying
Ben Zaretsky
2023-05-12 01:43:47 +0000 UTCWhat if I like Israel and Vore
Claire Casey
2023-05-12 01:26:13 +0000 UTCTotally missed that! Love to see it! Couldn’t agree more with you re: Akira Kurosawa too.
Ryan
2023-05-12 00:35:20 +0000 UTCSwanson on set remarked that she sympathized with Norma but didn’t understand why she was unhappy if she was rich and healthy had like this live in servant
John Leavitt
2023-05-11 23:22:38 +0000 UTCI’m sure it’s already planned out, but I’m hoping for a network and rollerball episode.
Neil Evans
2023-05-11 22:51:07 +0000 UTCUp ahead in the comments Chris and Will both basically confirmed there is a Kurosawa ep coming. To be clear, the one you're talking about, not like, Ikuru, Seven Samurai etc Kurosawa although honestly I'd enjoy hearing Will and Hesse spit on both of them
Claire Casey
2023-05-11 22:38:39 +0000 UTCGOATed reference
Matt Boi
2023-05-11 21:23:34 +0000 UTCMax is a cuck???
Matt Boi
2023-05-11 21:21:49 +0000 UTCThe Sunset Blvd analysis is stellar
Ty
2023-05-11 19:29:06 +0000 UTCglad it's appreciated. some day when i'm insanely bored I have to go back and tag every movie/history ep and like, all of this is sus and other major sub-series.
Chapo Trap House
2023-05-11 17:56:51 +0000 UTCPulse is my pick for KK’s greatest film…
Rohmer Simpson
2023-05-11 17:48:43 +0000 UTCNope you read that correctly - dancer it is!
Peter Sullivan
2023-05-11 17:36:33 +0000 UTCso happy that chris cleaned up the ep tags so it's not like, Israel and Vore with the header from Blowback S2 at the top of the page
etienne
2023-05-11 16:27:44 +0000 UTCAlso Freddy set up a decent wine operation that’s still going.
Steve D
2023-05-11 15:42:44 +0000 UTCSuch a good episode!! Love Wilder. Ace in the hole and The Apartment are my favorites.
Hampus Bystrom
2023-05-11 14:52:33 +0000 UTCLoving this series, two of my favorite movies ever! If I may recommend a double feature: Cure (1997) and Pulse (2001) directed by Kiyoshi Kurosawa. Pulse, specifically, looks at young adults and a world modeled by the internet in a really unique, and terrifying way, and I think links with lots of themes talked about regarding a sort of 'crisis of loneliness' in recent Chapo episodes. Very ahead of its time in talking about the internet, would love to hear both your thoughts on it. Cheers!
Ryan
2023-05-11 14:48:43 +0000 UTC💯
Dan Hunter
2023-05-11 14:02:51 +0000 UTC-“I’m just a common whore.” -“yeah buddy, ain’t it great?”
EaZy E
2023-05-11 14:02:03 +0000 UTCWilder trying to use human dignity as a plot driver. Americans born after 1983: what is this bullshit??
Dan Hunter
2023-05-11 13:40:32 +0000 UTCYou can tell this movie was made before the invention of MILFs because it treats having a rich sugar mommy like a bad thing
laserwilliams
2023-05-11 13:33:45 +0000 UTCSunset Blvd or "all I gotta do is flatter and dick this queen and I get to live in a mansion???" Staring: everyone you know.
Dan Hunter
2023-05-11 13:04:13 +0000 UTC“I’m a writer—but hey, no one’s perfect“ (Billy Wilder) 🤗
Scot Forsythe
2023-05-11 12:38:04 +0000 UTCCan’t wait for their review of Heat (1995)
Peter Sullivan
2023-05-11 11:17:11 +0000 UTC(Mumbling while taking a drink) arguably the musical is wildly homophobic but Glen Close was amazing in it and we deserve a filmed version before she dies
John Leavitt
2023-05-11 07:02:25 +0000 UTCOKAY HEAR ME OUT…. Sunset Boulevard… the musical (just trust me) https://open.spotify.com/track/46KN4mFj7sfL8Oyep4cLnk?si=km571pb_S_eLHYb6wI6PEQ
Taylor McFarland
2023-05-11 06:55:59 +0000 UTCShe might have confused her with Margo Channing from ALL ABOUT EVE who was 100% a more heterosexual, less cocaine addled version of Tallulah Bankhead - fun fact the writer of ALL ABOUT EVE wrote it in part due to his jealous of his brother being involved in SUNSRT BLVD.
John Leavitt
2023-05-11 06:54:42 +0000 UTCWikipedia says he was a taxi dancer but I think there was a goof up.
Tony Millionaire
2023-05-11 06:11:19 +0000 UTCEvery old time radio show would mention Tallulah Bankhead constantly because the name is funny. I hope Felix learns about her
J.P. McD.
2023-05-11 05:47:08 +0000 UTCVictorian ass name my guy. At least I earned my PhD 😘
Seth Morton
2023-05-11 03:33:14 +0000 UTCGrad school essay ass post
Arthur G. Pym
2023-05-11 03:30:50 +0000 UTCBy Matt do you mean Will?
Peter Sullivan
2023-05-11 02:48:06 +0000 UTCSomeone's probably already pointes this out, but a huge moment is S3 of Twin Peaks is cooper turning on a TV and seeing Sunset Blvd, the line "get Gordon Cole" is what starts to snap him back to reality
Katana King
2023-05-11 01:14:54 +0000 UTCI've been to that spot behind the Hollywood Bowl. Saw Beck when he was on tour for Midnight Vultures. Take your special guy or girl to see a show from the woods up there. Highly recommended.
Gulb
2023-05-11 00:49:42 +0000 UTCI get that you had to kinda put a clearance sale tag on Fred MacMurray as an actor, versus William Holden - hell, one of them starred in 400 episodes of MY THREE SONS and the other was Oscar-nominated for NETWORK - but the two movies he made opposite Stanwyck - one before INDEMNITY, one after - are high masterpieces: REMEMBER THE NIGHT, a perfect Preston Sturges script directed by the underrated Mitchell Leisen, and Douglas Sirk's THERE'S ALWAYS TOMORROW. Seek them out if you can.
Rohmer Simpson
2023-05-11 00:15:39 +0000 UTCit's a right banger
Rohmer Simpson
2023-05-11 00:07:12 +0000 UTCBankhead, who was famously a sex-liker (or infamously, to the scolds of the day), once described herself as "Pure as the driven slush".
Rohmer Simpson
2023-05-11 00:05:53 +0000 UTCCan't wait for Will and Hesse's Marvel episode! Dr. Strange 2 is similar to Double Indemnity.
Logan
2023-05-11 00:03:19 +0000 UTCIn 3rd grade, I went to school with Tallulah Bankhead's grand-daughter, or grand-neice. I didn't know who Tallulah Bankhead was, my Mom said they based Norma Desmond on her. I knew Nora Desmond, of course, from the Carol Burnett skit. Finally watched the real movie just now. My mom was wrong about the character being based on her, but it was the 70s, nobody could check on a thing like that
Erin Kristina
2023-05-10 23:36:03 +0000 UTCAmerica's Most Blounted
Saying Monty Python Quotes In Lieu of Conversation
2023-05-10 23:18:38 +0000 UTC2002 was such a miserable year in how it solidified our War of Terror, and nothing summarized its monopolization of news for me like Billy Wilder’s death scrolling as text across the bottom of the screen during endless footage of 9/11 and Afghanistan.
Scott Grabel
2023-05-10 22:41:10 +0000 UTCI love listening to Will talk and I really love listening to Will talk about movies. This was the best Movie Mindset yet, btw.
Tommy
2023-05-10 21:40:05 +0000 UTCWith Hesse's reference of french film I hope we get a couple of entries from our froggy friends. Melville, Goddard, Alain Delon, Army of Shadows, Hiroshima Mon Amor, Jules et Jim -- I know Will is a diehard Le Cirque Rouge enjoyer.
Seth Morton
2023-05-10 21:08:35 +0000 UTCThe hosts are spot on regarding Double Indeminity's existential emptiness. Another note to their reading; the wax cylinder becomes the new confessional. Both prefiguring the age of posting, but more importantly the inversion of the confessions of the flesh. Whereas the act of confession once brought out the inner truth as a means of assuring access to heaven, this confessional consigns one's fate to the past and merely improves the statistical accuracy of the actuarial table. Hell on earth indeed.
Seth Morton
2023-05-10 21:02:01 +0000 UTCTwo of my favorite movies of all time. This is the episode I was looking forward to the most.
Axel Herrera
2023-05-10 21:00:58 +0000 UTCThat was very much a post.
Harry Russ
2023-05-10 20:59:55 +0000 UTCstill happy to be a patreon supporter and you guys should keep putting out whatever you want. but these movie ones are a basically a different podcast, one that i would not be into. just passing along as supporter feedback. but also, i wasn't into the hell on earth ones either. so basically just saying, i (and probably lots of other patreons) are here for just for main channel content, i.e. contemporaneous commentary, interviews, etc.
james
2023-05-10 20:44:33 +0000 UTC*Alternate timeline where talkies were never made* Norma driving the longest car ever seen through Hollywood. "What the fuck y'all know about this?" *Starts playing sing sing sing so hard it causes movie star 9/11*
Asher Christl
2023-05-10 19:54:36 +0000 UTCYou two absolutely must watch SHE HATE ME for Movie Mindset. There is not a more on-brand movie from the mid-2000s for this podcast. It’s a Spike joint that features lesbians having straight sex, animated sperm, birth sequences, Watergate, Private healthcare companies, AIDS, and baffling attempts at humor. Love it or hate it, there’s not a more perfect film for this podcast to discuss.
William Evans
2023-05-10 19:18:38 +0000 UTCReminds me of Ricardo Montalbán's "Five Stages of an Actor's Career" Who is Ricardo Montalbán? Get me Ricardo Montalbán. Get me a Ricardo Montalbán type. Get me a young Ricardo Montalbán. Who is Ricardo Montalbán? (Without looking it up, I'd wager this is an old showbiz chestnut that RM branded as his own - and why not?)
Rohmer Simpson
2023-05-10 19:06:27 +0000 UTCIf you want more background on Sunset Blvd I HIGHLY recommend the printed production dairy by the producer. It’s amazing how many bad choices got reversed and how much tinkering was done on set and on the fly - it was originally a much meaner story, a lot of lines were Ab Libbed, and Charles Isherwood himself did an uncredited rewrite of the ending which had a Psycho style “ah she went nuts cause of the movies!” Stinger (my favorite bit is that in the first script Norma is described as a Gloria Swanson type and they basically exhausted every other older actress in town before getting to her)
John Leavitt
2023-05-10 18:42:10 +0000 UTCShe had one of the first talk shows on TV!
John Leavitt
2023-05-10 18:37:16 +0000 UTCi love this episode!
Adam
2023-05-10 18:26:57 +0000 UTCalso watch people on sunday from 1930 by wilder, zinneman, siodmak and ulmer 🙏
Alexander Fuchs
2023-05-10 18:22:53 +0000 UTCAll of Wilder’s 1970s films are very good, but AVANTI! is as great as anything else he made.
Rohmer Simpson
2023-05-10 17:47:51 +0000 UTCThese have all been exceptional so far!!! Would love the idea of a Olivier Assayas double-feature built around Demonlover and Irma Vep - both have this incredible Y2K-era energy of the 20th century world dying and the interconnected (and malevolent) 21st century world being born.
steven bassett
2023-05-10 16:49:50 +0000 UTCDYK that there is also an insurance agent named Mr. Neff in Twin Peaks? It's in the first season when Ben Horne and Josie Packard betray Catherine Martell (Piper Laurie) and Neff comes to collect signatures for the life insurance policy Ben and Josie took out on her after they decided to off her in the mill fire. He's equally sleazy, asking Catherine if there's "anything at all" he can do for her in a scene crackling with double meanings after they've uncovered a plot on her life. No way Lynch hasn't seen Double Indemnity a dozen times when he's writing that scene.
Bryan Williams
2023-05-10 16:47:55 +0000 UTCWill Wilder was a taxi dancer a taxi dancer not a taxi driver get your head out of your ass long time fan thnx
Don Tickles
2023-05-10 16:45:58 +0000 UTCHesse and Will look how I pictured Matt and Felix
kenton
2023-05-10 16:27:05 +0000 UTCMost of us only know Gloria Swanson from SUNSET BLVD, so it's easy to conclude that she was basically Norma. But if you catch up with latter-day appearances by Swanson on TV (talk shows and I think 60 Minutes did a puff piece where she shows off her Manhattan apartment, MTV Cribs style), it's incredibly apparent that, in real life, she was just a really cool chick, and that any resemblance to Norma Desmond is largely circumstantial. Incidentally, if you want your mind blown, go on YouTube and search "Gloria Swanson Brooke Shields" and watch them (and Barbara Eden) serve up Cole Porter's "What Do You Think About Men?" Trust me on this.
Rohmer Simpson
2023-05-10 16:24:16 +0000 UTCFavorite episode so far, i think yall are really hitting your stride on this one
Morgan
2023-05-10 16:11:40 +0000 UTCYou *may* be in luck
Will Menaker
2023-05-10 15:55:41 +0000 UTCDumb movies tho please
kenton
2023-05-10 15:53:48 +0000 UTCLol never heard anyone else mention 1,2,3
William
2023-05-10 15:31:05 +0000 UTCthose John Dahl movies are '93 and '94 btw
Rohmer Simpson
2023-05-10 15:08:04 +0000 UTCSeconding this so hard I broke my laptop
Rohmer Simpson
2023-05-10 15:05:14 +0000 UTCIIRC we don't see Neff die onscreen, and there's an implication that Keyes - sorrowfully but in line with the Code's crime-doesn't-pay expectations - will make sure his buddy lives long enough to get the chair (or I think it would have been the gas chamber in California, at the time). You could make the case that it's ambiguous, and that the "crime doesn't pay" point is made, so long as it's clear that Neff dies, either from his wounds or at the behest of the state.... but it would be very unusual, even in this unusual movie, for our takeaway to be that the bullet wound kills him but we don't see him actually expire.
Rohmer Simpson
2023-05-10 15:04:37 +0000 UTCWhat? Phyllis shoots him and he dies with Keyes
Nick Muscatiello
2023-05-10 14:43:08 +0000 UTCHe dies in murder-suicide in the book though, right? I pretty sure the studio intervened to rewrite that. Is it valid to read it that way? I dunno but that's how I always told myself it ended.
Ed
2023-05-10 14:36:33 +0000 UTCgod damn, god damn
Adam Skorupskas
2023-05-10 14:34:00 +0000 UTCIf you want to talk about Wilder’s harsh view of American culture you can’t leave Ace in the Hole with Kirk Douglas out of that conversation
Zach H.
2023-05-10 14:13:44 +0000 UTCAlso Film is Dorian gray - they keep aging the more immortal they are on film
NYCM&AHole
2023-05-10 14:03:40 +0000 UTC🤔 hmmmm.....
Chapo Trap House
2023-05-10 13:43:18 +0000 UTCMovie grindset
Alec
2023-05-10 13:37:58 +0000 UTCGonna be so disappointed if there isn't an episode on Kiyoshi Kurosawa. Doing Cure and then like Bright Future would be perfect for this series.
Gordon Schmidt
2023-05-10 13:30:57 +0000 UTCFred MacMurray doesn't die in Double Indemnity.... now how am I supposed to believe either of you know what you're talking about?
Joe
2023-05-10 13:15:35 +0000 UTCHell yeah cigars and trains
NYCM&AHole
2023-05-10 13:11:08 +0000 UTCIf you like John Carpenter's CHRISTINE, you should check out Alan Clarke's! Lots in common: the kids are alright, life in suburbia is awesome, heavy reliance on Steadicam.
Rohmer Simpson
2023-05-10 12:39:07 +0000 UTCAt the start referencing 80s Noir movies? Blood Simple
Claire Casey
2023-05-10 12:36:52 +0000 UTCI saw a screening of Shanghai Express at the 2016 TCM Festival. Von Sternberg Jr was in attendance and talked about how Marlene used to bounce him on her knee.
gonzopitcher
2023-05-10 12:15:51 +0000 UTCWhat coen brothers movie does will say? His voice trails off
Morgan
2023-05-10 11:53:12 +0000 UTCThe one cool movie about my dumbass job
Flesh Colored Subaru
2023-05-10 11:19:40 +0000 UTCthis dude is NOT getting delicious things to eat!!!
Lucas
2023-05-10 11:17:37 +0000 UTCYou forgot The Third Man on that essential noir list.
Joseph Guerra
2023-05-10 11:16:23 +0000 UTCIntro music is so strange I will never get used to it
Jethro Mojave
2023-05-10 11:12:48 +0000 UTC
