RWBY Volume 8 Episode 12 Reaction
Added 2024-09-21 16:00:03 +0000 UTCEarly ad-free access for our RWBY Volume 8 Episode 12 Reaction
Comments
I don't think it's a *loophole* that RWBY uses for Penny. It's like how Jaune's semblance doesn't actually heal people. Their *own* aura heals them; Jaune has a lot of Aura, so he can use his to act as a supplemental source of energy. It's like using your phone while it's plugged into a charging block. (Yes, Jaune is the block.) So Ambrosius doesn't have to do any creation of a human body for Penny; he's just supplying extra power for *Penny's* Aura to "heal" herself. That's why he's not sure how much of the result would be "his work" and how much of it would be Penny, just coming to the surface. If the process required too much of his input, it would count as his creation, side-effect or not, and cease to exist when he created something new. I think that Ambrosius (and Jinn) don't make or even enforce the rules/limitations; they're *bound* by the rules (hence the chain imagery on them), whether they like the rules or not.
Callie Summers
2024-09-26 07:14:20 +0000 UTCThat's why it was a loophole but the Relic Spirits are good-natured and if given an opportunity to bend their powers a little to help someone they will within reason like Jinn did allowing Ruby to freeze time long enough to compose herself in Vol 6. Ambrosius is the same, so long as his basic necessities of creation are met he's able to do as he wishes with his powers.
Friendly Elites
2024-09-25 02:44:55 +0000 UTCThanks for the recommendation on something different and new to check out. We got a full plate right now, but that does sound interesting 🙂
Bethany and Ken
2024-09-22 16:21:53 +0000 UTCNice spot there. Clever writing to have the detail in there. Makes rewatching it more fun 🙂
Bethany and Ken
2024-09-22 16:14:00 +0000 UTCAn interesting clue is when Emerald looks like Penny to the general, she is using contractions in her speech whereas as far as I know Penny herself never does so. Fortunately it didn't tip off Ironwood.
Blair
2024-09-22 15:54:35 +0000 UTCIt certainly isn't far fetched to believe the staff of creation could create another body for Penny, although one that still remains when the staff is used for another purpose is difficult for some people to wrap their head around.
Blair
2024-09-22 15:50:41 +0000 UTCI fucking love "Be Strong and Hit Stuff" (the song during their fight with Ironwood), even though the chorus is kind of goofy, its so good.
Alex Smith
2024-09-22 05:46:34 +0000 UTCAlso fun little add on, Ambrosius gives us an example of him being able to create freely for himself outside of requests when he creates the little viewing glass/monocle to inspect Penny. So only creations specific to the request are actually bound into the 1 in existence rule.
ThatsBrad
2024-09-22 05:18:17 +0000 UTCAlso duped is kinda loosey goosey here because Ambrosius fully understood that they were using loopholes to bend his rules, but played along because he wanted to create things. (edit) Also, real important to note, the rules need to be thought of in genie terms, not like laws in real life. Ruby basically created a monkey's paw scenario and Ambrosius said oo that's funnn.
ThatsBrad
2024-09-22 04:46:03 +0000 UTCOk so, the cannot destroy is important. Ambrosius was requested to make a duplicate specifically using the parts of Penny that already existed (basically separate penny's parts from her soul but through creation). Since the soul doesn't have anything to attach to it would just die as a direct result of Ambrosius creating, so by telling him to get creative, Ruby essentially dupes him into laying the groundwork for Penny's soul to manifest a real body. We can't be sure how much of the flesh body was Ambrosius and how much was the will of Penny's soul, but we do know that only things that are specifically requested to be made by Ambrosius are bound by the 1 in existence rule (he creates a monocle to get a better look at Penny without erasing a previous creation).
ThatsBrad
2024-09-22 04:41:35 +0000 UTCI think that's where the "You can't destroy" came into play, since if he didn't create a body for her he would be destroying. That's how I interpreted it after countless re-watch anyways, lol
Ganabungus
2024-09-22 03:49:58 +0000 UTCI think the loophole is that they didn't explicitly ask for Penny's new human body. What was created as a result of the request was an exact robot duplicate of Penny, using her current, existing parts, but NOT including her soul/aura. That would be undone when the staff is used again. As said, doing that as directly asked would result in the death of a soul, which is something he can't do. So the body is created as a side-effect of his fulfilling a request, instead of a direct result.
ArcaneAnomaly
2024-09-22 02:41:01 +0000 UTCOkay this makes a lot more sense, I've always been confused about this part cause I thought they were just making Penny a new body. I had no idea that they were forcing him by his own rules to create a new one for her soul after removing the robot parts
Squiddy
2024-09-22 02:36:52 +0000 UTCYeah, this episode was confusing for me too. Ruby says that when you take away Penny's robot parts, her soul is what's left. But a soul by itself isn't enough to Manifest an entire body of flesh and blood on its own. So I feel like this episode is definitely a plot hole. The next two episodes are probably two of the most important episodes in the whole series!
Bryan Forquer
2024-09-22 00:54:34 +0000 UTCThat's why it's a clever loophole because Penny's human body doesn't fit in with the normal rules. The thing they chose to create was just a new robot version of Penny with the virus, the human body was just a bi-product of that wish. So when they created the portals the only thing that disapeared was the robot body with the virus.
Kami_Psy
2024-09-22 00:05:59 +0000 UTCBut wouldn't that still imply, that Pennys new body is "his creation" which in turn would disappear as soon as something else, in this case the evacuation portals, were created. Like, how the "floating city of Atlas" won't float anymore because they created something else?
HaruGrad
2024-09-21 23:50:11 +0000 UTCI love the next episode
Sol-Edge
2024-09-21 22:54:39 +0000 UTCand if they HAD specifically asked for that, she probably would have disappeared when they made the Central Location.
Lucifer_Crowe
2024-09-21 21:53:31 +0000 UTCSo you're right, they never asked him to build penny a human body. Just to separate the robot from the soul. The robot was the creation, and they just took advantage of the fact that he's not allowed to destroy. So the body has to be a bi product in order to not destroy her soul
Hayden Morris
2024-09-21 20:02:20 +0000 UTCA slight... I hesitate to call it a correction but can't think of a better word. With Jinn it wasn't a loophole because had she revealed any less it could accurately be said she didn't answer Ruby's question. The heart of the question was "I want to remove Ozpin's ability to lie to us". And while Ruby certainly got more than she bargained for, that's only because she had no idea the scale involved. Like ordering a meal without knowing the serving size, getting more than you can handle wouldn't be considered a loophole. Just a... dilemma lol.
Jeff
2024-09-21 18:54:09 +0000 UTCRWBY was very clever here. This is the second Relic spirit where they have been able to exploit a loophole to get more than they probably were supposed to. With Jinn in Volume 6, Ruby's question was "What is Ozpin hiding?" Jinn could have given an answer that was specific to that moment in time - what was he hiding about why he put Lionheart forward as a good guy, or what was he hiding about why he didn't tell them the Lamp attracted Grimm. However, Jinn knows everything, so she gave them more than they asked for since Ruby asked such an open-ended question. So, where Penny is concerned, the language that was used in the show was deliberately meant to be confusing so that RWBY could exploit a loophole in their request and get both a creation (the copy of Penny) and a by-product (the human Penny). But the difference here is that with Jinn, Ruby's question was open-ended. Here, she was both specific and vague to manipulate Ambrosius into giving more than he should. Couple of important points to note: 1) Ambrosius (the spirit in the Staff) can only create things if the requestor can explain how they are created and provide some sort of reference for him. This is why Weiss had copies of Penny's schematics for him. This is also why Oz never tried the "create me a superweapon that can destroy Salem permanently" route. How do you explain that to Ambrosius? What references to you give him? 2) Because Ambrosius can't bring people back from the dead, (established by the Brother Gods that bringing back from the dead does NOT equal creation) they couldn't just let Penny self-destruct and then ask him to bring her back. If bringing back from the dead doesn't equal creation, it was out of his realm of power. This is also why people like Pyrrha, Clover, or Torchwick couldn't be brought back. 3) Both Ruby and Ambrosius emphasize that Penny is one of a kind - machine parts, plus an Aura, which is usually reserved for living things (humans, plants, and animals). So, this is a loophole that literally would not work for anyone else, and only worked in this unique situation. 4) Oz makes a point of telling them that once Ambrosius creates something new, the previous creation is destroyed. How did it work? Ruby's request was "We want you to create a new version of her, using her existing robotic parts, taking the virus with them." Picture a container with a lid full of something. The container itself is the mechanical parts of Penny. The lid is Watts' virus. The contents of the container are Penny's Aura (which the Winter Maiden powers are bound to). The materials Ambrosius has to work with have now been given to him. Ambrosius then creates a duplicate container (Penny's mechanical parts) with a lid (the virus), but - and here's the important part - he does NOT use Penny's aura in the new creation. They requested a robot-only Penny, which he gave them. It falls squarely within the rules Oz explained when he explained about the spirit in the staff. This act of creation also created a by-product that they DID NOT ask for - Penny's aura/soul, unmoored from any physical anchor. If a soul is unmoored from a body, Penny would die again, because the soul can't exist without a body. Ambrosius is forbidden from destroying - he is the spirit of Creation. So now, Ambrosius has to figure out what to do with that by-product, since he can't destroy it. RWBY has now forced Ambrosius into a situation where they are hoping he will realize he HAS to create a new vessel for Penny's aura. That's why Ruby says, "YOU have to get creative." She is distancing herself from Penny's aura to keep it firmly in Ambrosius' wheelhouse and to avoid running into the situation where once the portals to Vacuo open, both the new robot Penny (the creation they asked for) and the new human Penny would be destroyed. Ambrosius figures that out, creates a new, human vessel for Penny's aura and the Winter Maiden powers and gives RWBY the creation they asked for (robot only Penny) and the by-product of a human Penny (which was what they wanted and manipulated him into giving them. So much great stuff in this episode and this was very, very clever writing on CRWBY's part. Definitely a defining moment for Whitley again, and his redemption is continuing. Also, a defining moment for Winter, Marrow, and Emerald. And Ruby's ominous line about "Hope we've thought of everything"... they aren't thinking about Cinder because they have had no contact with Ironwood. They don't know Cinder has already broken Watts out. They haven't been in touch with Qrow and Robyn. Qrow and Robyn didn't feature into what Winter was planning until she and Marrow bumped into them at the elevator. Emerald knows Cinder was supposed to get Watts, since she was in the meeting when Salem ordered it, but she has no idea if Cinder succeeded or if the destruction of Monstra changed things, since Cinder has a habit of going off script. They also don't know that Neo got away with the Lamp. What they do know is that by creating the robot-only Penny, Atlas is going to fall. The citizens of Mantle are trapped in the crater underneath Atlas, and the people of Atlas are trapped in the subways where Ironwood ordered them to evacuate to. If Atlas falls and they don't get everyone out, everyone (Mantle and Atlas) dies. Great reaction once again, and can't wait for next week.
Megan Saunders
2024-09-21 18:05:40 +0000 UTCIronwood got cooked! I remember when I did my own reaction a friend had hyped me up for the episode and said "I was not ready for the first few minutes" and he was right. I had just gotten back from Texas a few days before as I had two weeks of a training course from my USAF days and I was glad I got back when I did; long weekend and ofc more RWBY. Emerald's "Feels weird" line always makes me laugh XD
DevilJynx
2024-09-21 17:51:10 +0000 UTCAhora sí se viene lo más chido del volume! 👌🏻👌🏻😌 Definitivamente, es cine 🚬. Prepárense y abrochence el cinturón ✌🏻. Saludos 🇲🇽
El Patitas de Molcajete Takamachi
2024-09-21 17:48:52 +0000 UTCHands down the best episode of the volume for me. ...That said...uh this is probably the last feel good moment for a bit. And the point that you may want to start warning your audience, though the show itself does so.
Serpent King
2024-09-21 17:46:13 +0000 UTCI'll try to explain in more detail what happened with Penny. Basically they told Ambrosius to create a new robot body but using all the parts that are currently within Penny (including the virus). This leaves behind only Penny's soul, since she has an aura that proves that she has a soul. Leaving behind nothing but Penny's soul without a body would basically be "destroying" Penny and Ambrosius can't destroy anything. This means he had to create an entirely new human body in order for Penny's soul to live on. So the gang found a pretty crazy loophole to get rid of the virus but also make Penny a real girl.
Kami_Psy
2024-09-21 17:25:07 +0000 UTC"DO NOT FALL... ooooh-kay and with that dire warning..." always cracks me up. I think it was kind that Winter tried to give Ironwood a final chance to relent... even though she knew it would fail. It's the last thing she could or would give him. We also get a solidification of Marrow's power -- he can freeze multiple targets (all three Ace Ops) as long as they're in the same line of casting, but he can't seem to affect multiple targets in different locations (like when he fought Weiss + her Armas Gigas last season). Emerald is so good here and it cements her defection. Back when we first meet Emerald, she is alone on the street, stealing to stay alive. Cinder makes her feel like someone cares about her and will look out for her... but eventually it becomes clear Cinder is not capable of that kind of concern for another person and is just using her even when Emerald tries to take care of her. Meanwhile, Salem is terrifying and dangerous, and Emerald just wants out... and then it's Oscar who actually cares for her enough to convince Team RWBY to take a chance on her. She longs for what they have, and then they accept her. Emerald has finally found a home of people who care, are dependable, and accept her help in return. So RWBY does manage to exploit the Creation rules a bit. Since the "mechanical version" of Penny with the virus was the actual created item, rather than creating a new real Penny, that is what dissipates when they create the portals -- and it's whatever remained of Penny (her aura) along with whatever Ambrosius used to hold it together to make her human (since he's not allowed to destroy) that sticks around -- and she seems human now. Penny at least seems to be ... Penny. It totally reminded me of Beauty and the Beast too! Maiden power comes with the aura (remember that Pyrrha was going to merge her aura with Amber's to get the remainder of the Fall Maiden power). So the powers are still part of her aura. It also ties into when Penny gets the Winter powers from Fria and Winter tells her "she's part of you now" -- because the auras are merging. I love that Je Souhaite episode of X-Files too, lol. That's how I remember Marrow's name too. :) This was a hard season in its early episodes, but the second half really has moved me (and will continue to) in terms of people who rise to the occasion, whether it's Ren making things right with Nora, or Yang making things right with Ruby, or Whitley stepping out from his father's shadow, or Hazel finally honoring his sister over his desire for revenge, or Marrow and Winter finally refusing Ironwood's agenda, or Emerald defecting. Despite her overwhelming darkness, Salem cannot put out the light of goodness and redemption. I hope that when the gods return (because that would be the most intense storyline), they will be moved by all of the goodness that despite its suffering has yet blazed forth in the face of depravity. I hated Harriet through much of this too. The storyline won't ignore her. :)
Jennywocky
2024-09-21 17:23:46 +0000 UTCGuGunsparce
Pyrodragon3993
2024-09-21 17:03:19 +0000 UTCThe GunGunGun
Lucifer_Crowe
2024-09-21 16:48:22 +0000 UTCI think it’s just Qrow and Robyn already had their weapons at the ready and so could defend themselves if they were attacked and didnt want to draw attention by just attacking if they didn’t have to.
SavvySpark
2024-09-21 16:43:43 +0000 UTCSomething not always clear is that the Central Location gets inspired by the Neumatic Tube mail system used earlier in the volume. As for why he doesn't creature horizontal tubes? maybe he takes flat blueprints THAT literally. It's definitely strange that Qrow's first instinct isn't to attack Winter and Marrow, especially given as far as they know Marrow could Stay them at any second. Makes for a cool "speaking of help." moment though I guess. The Ironwood 1v6 is so funny "How about we just jump his ass?", obviously Winter and Ozcar (and Emerald taking his weapons) were a strong help but Ren, Jaune, and Nora did super well considering. Bootlicker is the perfect word, it got used a lot in memes at the time.
Lucifer_Crowe
2024-09-21 16:35:09 +0000 UTCSomething really cool is that Ambrosius is both a reference to Disneys Pinocchio and the original novel. In the movie Pinocchio is brought to life by the blue fairy and in the novel the character is called the The Fairy With the Turquoise Hair. Ambrosius is blue and has turquoise hair. Also Winters last little attempt to reason with Ironwood despite knowing he’s too far gone is kind of heartbreaking. I’m not sure if you guys consider requests but if you’re interested music history I’d love if you’d react to a video or two by Todd in the Shadows on YouTube. He has a few different series he does. One Hit Wonderland where he delves into the full careers of one hit wonder artists, Trainwreckords where he looks at an album wildly considered to have completely ended an artist’s career and he does reviews of modern pop songs. His videos are usually really interesting and funny. If that sounds like your thing at all I’d recommend giving them a watch. There aren’t many reactions to his videos. I just was recently going back and watching some of his stuff and thought it’s be great for reactions. I can give recommendations on where to start if you need because he has a ton of content.
SavvySpark
2024-09-21 16:25:35 +0000 UTCOh my god its finally here the gun that is also a gun!
Lyle Alsop
2024-09-21 16:15:50 +0000 UTC
