Early Access - Attack on Titan 4x15 "Sole Salvation" (Post Episode)

I think it could also be because of age, Zeke was much older when he obtained the power, so maybe it did not affect him as much as it did Eren who was 10...just speculating!

Shiro

Lmao

Joe

I see. Perhaps I'll check out those series then. Always up for some comedy.

石原 悟

@石原 悟 That "smug black guy" is Roll Safe from the comedy web series Hood Documentary.

TheStruggler

Love this, Film! Ur discussion is SO GOOD, so many insights I never had

Richard Cabanas

@Shiro, pretty sure it's a meme of a smug looking black guy. At least that's the first thing that came to mind.

石原 悟

Is this a "Monster" reference??

Shiro

*puts finger to forehead* "can't suffer if you were never born."

Gina Bacal

so glad to have you back with these incredible reactions and discussions man

Anime only here... I also did not catch the buggy with the dolls and my mind was blown. The female doll, well, based on the pink dress she was wearing and her long blonde hair, I can think of only one person who was presented that way on screen.....

LEX the Lexicon Artist

This is by far the best attack on titan discussion forum you’ll ever get. I love all the insights people bring in this comment section.

Kyogln

HOLY SHIT I didn't even catch the buggy with the dolls that look like Zeke, Eren, and I won't say the name of the female doll. Lol of course Eren is in control of it.

Jawaun Reid

It seems like Zeke didn’t have any memory loss after his inheriting of the Beast and I think that may be because of his blood.

Mihail Babus

Hello fellow manga reader! I don't want to say too much but "Mr. Tatakae" is truly what should be a moniker for Eren!

Shiro

Welcome to the Zeke fan club Im! Zeke is my #1 favourite character in this series, hands down. From his introduction to his backstory, he retained his mysterious enigmatic presence. We never really got to see his thoughts except in the last couple of episodes. When his backstory came out in chapter 114 (this episode), he instantly rose to my top #1. I initially thought when he was revealed to be Eren's half-brother that his character would be used in two ways in the story - either he serves as the antagonist final boss villain, or he joins Eren to fight for Eldia. I absolutely love that Isayama gave him his own goals and objectives, and given his life, that ideology makes so much sense for his character to think that way. He is a character full of contradictions. He always loved his family, from his childhood, strove to become a Warrior for the sake of his parents; he was betrayed by his parents in the sense that they used him as a tool to further their agenda, and in turn was forced to betray them (with great reluctance) to save himself and his grandparents. His family (Ksaver, grandparents) has always been his weakness (ironic for a charater who betrayed his family!), and now we see his weakness once again possibly blinding him as he chooses to trust family (Eren) who may or may not be entirely on board with his plan...

Shiro

I think Zeke took a gamble here...remember, he has been under the impression that Eren suffered from Grisha's hands just like him (which we as the audience know to be false). He chose to trust his family (brother) and see where that leads him...

Shiro

One could also say that's a Buddhist mindset. Buddhism was literally born to escape the never ending reincarnation, which ultimately leads to never ending suffering by erasing oneself. Siddhartha was a hinduist, obviously. Thus the concept of reincarnation was taken as basis. Buddhism is quite scary, actually. Killing someone before they commit a crime and acquire negative karma leading to more suffering could be argued to be a good deed. A selfless one. Where the negative karma is taken upon by the killer to release the subject from suffering. I think there actually does exist an "educational" story how two monks tried to cross a river and have seen in a dream that their fellow passengers were about to go and raid a village. So they killed all of them in their sleep. Saved them. From future suffering.

石原 悟

I’ve thought about the idea of Eren manipulating Zeke, or lying to him, and it was actually convincing knowing Eren’s manners and how it’s hard to believe he’s changed that much in this short amount of time. However, I also couldn’t forget Zeke’s manners and how he would always take precautions for each step in his plans. Let’s remember that it was Yelena who delivered Zeke’s plan to Eren in paradise, and considering the situation of the volunteers at that time, it was a big risk to just trust Eren and tell him about the “euthanization” plan without guaranty that he would agree, or at least precautions if he refuses. What if Eren just said no and told pyxis or Hange about their plan? I think there is a missing piece, and I highly suggest that it is in the meeting that happened between Eren and Yelena and the complete message that Zeke sent. I’m not saying that Eren is convinced with Zeke’s plan for sure, but I don’t think Zeke and Yelena would trust Eren that easily.

Rayan

"character assassination" Perfectly I agree with you on this point, if ever eren were to betray what he always fought for

Tatakuikui

It is Mephystophelian mindset. "Being as such (human experience), is so corrupt and so permeated by unjustified suffering (and on top of that is tainted with Malevolence), that it would be better if it didn't exist at all" It is something like the ultimate expression of Nihilism. That is what happens when all the meaning in your life have been taken away and all that is left is the suffering with nothing to counter it.

Thanos D. Alexioy

This is definitely the best episode of the season, not my number one, but it's undeniable that this is as close to perfection as one can get. It's dense but nothing feels rushed, OST and VAs are on point, and the direction is amazing. That final scene was so good, the character designs and the details on basically everything really stand out. I really like the reoccurring theme of the world being cruel. We saw it with Bertholdt, Erwin and now Zeke and each has a slightly different way of looking on it. Initially it came from Mikasa, but her interpretation added on that it was also beautiful. Her take on it is definitely the one that stands out compared to the others, as it has that hopeful tone that the others don't/have very little of. It's similar to the whole being born into this world ideology that came from Carla and we've seen it with varying interpretations in multiple characters, with Eren being the most prominent.

Totally unrelated, but I had no idea I would see you on here. Just wanted to say your Pieck Rap and Ymir Rap are absolute bangers. Literally I was bumping them in the car on the way to work today. Love this fandom!

SwoopDogg

I especially love how some of the season 3 part 1 tracks were featured in two of Zeke & Ksaver’s talks. PERFECT

Sarah S

You're super right that the analogy is actually Eldia/Japan vs Marley/China. Marley, the large and highly militarized continental nation with a brainwashed population. Japan, who once used brute force to dominate the world, but was then forced to retreat their empire back onto a small collection of islands. Some of them try to deny the atrocities their ancestors committed, and some of them are hypernationalistic and want the empire to rise again. Yes, they use the Germans / Jewish analogy visually, but it's hard to miss what they're really talking about. I REALLY appreciate the context of the Japanese using that "we have a civilized culture" argument against the reality of Nanking. I was not aware and it makes this scene so much richer..

LEX the Lexicon Artist

True to this episode being one of, if not the best in this entire season, this is also the best post-episode reaction I've ever listened to from you. You hit all the points I hoped you would, and at certain points you even start sounding like a child psychologist the way you were so invested talking about how trauma affects children. Your review/reaction and conversational flow has gotten really natural and smooth, and it's awesome to see.

LEX the Lexicon Artist

Mr. Tatakae 😂 As a manga reader, maybe I was a little hazy on some of these details... it had been a while since I read this stretch, but this episode was an absolute HAYMAKER and I wasn’t expecting it to hit so hard. When Zeke teared up at Eren 😢 The anime presentation of Zeke’s backstory actually made me rethink things and he is easily EASILY top 3-5 in my favorite characters.

Sarah S

The music in this episode is absolutely stunning.

Mati D.

I've been waiting for certain dialogue which happens in this episode for too long. Haven't watched the discussion yet, but I'm gonna comment on it. Partially because it was not fully included in the reaction footage, so Im probably won't talk about it too much. The scene where Grisha is telling Zeke how the Massacre at Lago never happened. How it's all a lie created by Marleans. The reasoning Grisha is using to argue his point... You know what that is? That's literally, almost word for word, the argument used by modern Japanese ultra-nationalists to deny the Nanking Massacre. Replace Lago with Nanking, Eldians with Japanese, and now you know how they argue. "Eldians/Japanese never had such a cruel culture. Massacre at Lago/Nanking never happened because it's unthinkable. It's a lie by Marley/China." If anyone ever truly thought that Isayama is a Japanese imperialist, now they should know they were wrong. Grisha is portrayed in a very negative light in this episode. All he wants is revenge, and he got no concerns with anything else. His son. His parents. Anyone who's not Eldian. And he uses the laughable, yet terrifying, logic of the ultra-right activists. "It never happened because it could never happen" Grisha hates Marley so much that he by default assumes everything they say is a lie. Because Marleans are awful to his people, they must be evil liers. They must be. We're the victims here. Eldians did nothing wrong because Marley says they did, and that's a lie. So what if there's no evidence to contradict Marley. They just hid it. So what if literally everyone agrees with Marley on that Eldian Empire was atrocious in their ways. It's a cover up. An excuse. (I'd like to point out that Grisha at this point doesn't know the last words of Karl Fritz, 145th king of Eldia. That Fritz acknowledged Eldians as being in the wrong.) A man who's supportive of the Japanese imperialists wouldn't so blatanly expose the idiocy of such arguments. All Isayama had to do was to make sure Grisha was correct. Not have multiple evidence of Eldia being horrible. Paint the "paradise" inside the walls (which, mind you, is a purely Eldian society. A homogenic one. A few dozen of other races are irrelevant in affecting how society operates) as a true paradise. Paint Eldians as saints. None of that is present. PS: For those of you who are interested, here's a more detailed argument made by the ultra-nationalists. Nanking wasn't a massacre. First of all, throughout our history, we (Japanese) never had such cruel customs as slaughtering civilians in most gruesome way, taking photos with heads on pikes, enjoying the butchering and desecration. We value honorable codes. In fact, the whole Nanking thing was a trap by the Chinese. First they violated the Geneva convention by having soldiers dress up as civilians and hide in the city. When our brave Imperial Army entered the city, it was already vacated of most civilians and majority of people were in fact Chinese soldiers posed to pull a guerilla sneak attack. True to the Chinese culture. Read Sung Tsu and one will see how much emphasis Chinese traditionally placed on deception. Read the Chinese history and one will find many accounts of inhumane tortures and desecration. Obviously they thought like this; let Japanese into the city, attack them through guerilla troops, when they start fighting back we shall use the corpses and stage a few scenes to take pictures and send it to Allied forces. Westerners can't tell us (Asians) apart anyway. Since we had a long history of atrocities, surely Japanese must be the same and no one will doubt us. Those vile communist pigs failed to realise that Japanese are honorable people and would never do such a thing as massacre the civillians. In fact, Nanking never even had a population so large as they claim to have perished. Their proof is just a bunch of staged photos. Imperial Army did engage in combat in Nanking, but that was against guerillas dressed as civilians. Western world bought the lie because it gave them the excuse to execute our patriots in the Tokyo court. The patriots who fought with their lives for our Emperor and our people are now branded as war criminals. Their spirits still watch over us from the Yasukuni Shrine. Fellow patriots! Do not lend your ears to vile propaganda! Go and pay respects to our heroes at Yasukuni Shrine! Speak up and expose the lie about Nanking! Justice will be served! Chinese will be exposed! Long live Emperor! Long live Japan! This argument is full of so many holes... Urgh... The dumbest part is "we naver had such culture". Mega lul. As if Germans had such a "culture". Yet, in just 10 years (after Hitler seized power in January 1933) young German soldiers, born to peaceful German households, committed unimaginable deeds in Eastern Europe/USSR. In 4 years of the war, USSR lost 30 million people dead. Dead. Out of those, 12 million were troops. The rest, the 18 million were civilian casualties. In 4 years. So what now? One gonna argue that Germans somehow had such a culture? Or perhaps, it's time to admit that a "culture" has nothing to do with people being cruel in a war? And so on.

石原 悟

I 100% expected to eventually feel sympathy for Zeke, and look at that, his backstory turned out to be the saddest in the entire show (imo). What an amazing character

Chelle

knowing how much you love zeke, i’ve been looking forward to this for soooo long. excited to see your thoughts!

AutomoTomto

Been waiting for this episode reaction since it aired - one of my favorites of the entire series. Grisha's voice actor is so incredibly effective in this episode, what a performance. After spending a few episodes with Mr. Braus, Grisha seems like the worst father ever!

elliot