SKAM Episode 5 - UNCUT!
Added 2023-04-11 15:41:02 +0000 UTCTa-da! Here's your extra special surprise of-course, two in one day ;)
We're back at it with SKAM and its really heating up. If you can't wait for the YouTube release tomorrow, check out the full uncut version here!
Enjoy!
Love
Josh and Alex
Xo
Comments
Sorry, I'm late to the party, but you were asking about our thoughts regarding the conversation between Isak and Eskild at the 44:45 mark. Well, I think it should be mentioned that when the actor who played the part of Eskild was interviewed he said that in the real world his views tied up more with Isak's views on the topic of conversation rather than Eskild's views. For instance, he did mention that in real life he didn't agree with gay pride marches. So what does THAT tell us about that particular actor? Personally, that took the wind out of my sails and I was most disappointed to hear him say that!
Michael
2024-12-13 17:09:07 +0000 UTCIm catching up on this show and i had to cover my eyes during the convo with Eskild i was so upset with Isak and had to keep reminding myself he is a kid. The ending of that episode just hurt my heart
Sara Bresnahan
2024-04-04 08:44:59 +0000 UTCI presume someone has said so already, but the Jesus T-shirt is your clue that it's the next day. Even is wearing Isaks clothes. That T-shirt was Eskilds, then we see Isak wearing it, and now Even.
Jacqueline Hahn
2023-10-17 06:57:56 +0000 UTCIsak showed his lack of understanding, just as his mother lacks understanding. I feel like we are potentially witnessing a person that is fighting his upbringing. Leaving that thinking that has been ingrained into you is extremely difficult. But I have hope that Isak can do it cut all the ties and find freedom. He's lucky to have someone like his roommate to keep it real.
Suzy Dillinger
2023-08-31 18:09:14 +0000 UTCIf you can find this translate some where, you will get a much better understanding of the show, this is not a TV-show. https://skam.p3.no/sesong/3/?vis=fra-start
Anne H
2023-05-01 13:29:57 +0000 UTCEven is wearing Isak's T-shirt, so presumably they went straight home dripping wet on Friday night, and Even doesn't leave until Sunday. They just do that loved-up close the door, ignore the phone, pretend the real world doesn't exist thing. We've all been there. God, those were happy days!
Jacqueline Hahn
2023-04-29 12:33:06 +0000 UTCTotally! This actually occured to me as soon as I'd seen past episode 8/9. S4 E10 has 2 great moments showing how this pans out for both of them and how they complete each other, one, the incident on the bench, then later when talking about Marokko
Jacqueline Hahn
2023-04-29 12:12:39 +0000 UTCYeah. Same story, but different place/culture.
GroovyGadget
2023-04-18 15:23:43 +0000 UTCAlso 10CC’s I’m Not In Love
Suze
2023-04-18 12:53:12 +0000 UTCI’ve read in some of the comments that there are other series, like Skam France. Are they the same but in the different place and culture?
Suze
2023-04-18 12:46:34 +0000 UTCi think it is disdain though, based on ignorance. of course just a few steps of starting to explore these things don't mean you've broadened your horizons yet. but it does mean you are already on that journey trying to figure things out and again it is 2016 in the show and the information available to kids now, through the internet and otherwise, and how far the culture itself is when it comes to different issues and the visibility of certain groups of people and to diversity within the lgbtq+ community, are at a whooole different level. there is no way Isak doesn't at least know that he's just using the 'effeminate' stereotype of gay guys, basically complaining about that 'unfair' stereotype existing and blaming the 'gay gays' for it, and this *to* a guy who is gay-gay and wears tights and a pink wig at a party. there are nuances and degrees of disdain, but of course it is disdain, it's in the way he says it even though ok he says that it's ok for Eskild 'to go that far', as well as the fact that there is disdain for effeminate guys in the culture at large, let's be honest. what's more, his attitude here is also in the same universe as his friends being 'horrified' about a girl 'with a mustache' that Jonas had kissed and he thought was hot until he was disgusted by the mustache... or his own clear disdain from earlier about the gay dance instructor in tights... all of it is disrespect and panic coming from the straight culture about 1. guys seeming at all 'feminine' and 2. blurring any of those lines it likes to hold on to when it comes to sexuality and gender identity. and Isak doesn't realize that he's letting it mess with him, he just feels this need to clarify that *he* is not effeminate when he's finally admitting he's gay to Eskild - with no thought to how that affects Eskild, or how that's exactly part of the problem, why he thinks it's such a negative thing that gay guys are stereotyped that way. anyway what i know for sure is that in real life when i have seen that attitude, in conversations similar to Isak and Eskild's, it's been precisely disdain/contempt, or worse, towards gay people acting that way, towards flamboyance, or trans people being very visible, and all these icky ideas about how 'such people are doing a disservice to the community' because it would be better to project the image that we are just as 'normal' as straight people etc etc - and all of that really is just queerphobia and anxiety from straight culture at being challenged, embraced even by gay people. and the anxiety there is that they won't actually be accepted, and that's legitimate to have but you can't be essentially trying to be accepted as gay at the expense of those other unacceptable gays, arguing that they should stay quiet and less visible for the sake of the movement. we may think it's an inoffensive point about not wanting to be identified with a stereotype, and that we can get around the fact that it means subscribing to disdain towards 'those kinds of people', but it's not harmless, and we can't.
xbujorx
2023-04-18 10:12:42 +0000 UTCAdditionally, it's as if Isak thinks he must conform in some way to a surface quality that doesn't match what he knows about himself. He probably doesn't want to dance around in a pink wig. I think this may be a common error, this belief that one must conform in some way to a set of behaviors, if one wants to join a 'club' as Josh put it. This irrational fear might present as internalized homophobia--not so much a disdain for other queer people, but simply a fear that has no basis in fact.
Curtis Weeks
2023-04-18 05:53:59 +0000 UTCI don't think a single visit to a gay bar, sitting alone and getting black-out drunk, constitutes much broadening of the horizons. Isak is aware of the existence of other gays, just not aware of their natures. He doesn't know the diversity, due to lack of real experience meeting and *interacting* with other queer individuals in a meaningful way. A search history and porn also are not meaningful interactions. Isak's so-called 'disdain' wasn't so much disdain but ignorance. It's exactly as Alex said in the video. There's the surface of 'being gay' that people see and there's the hardcore truth of being gay. Isak has seen the (or a) surface, but is very ignorant of the hardcore realities. Eskild schooled him on the hardcore realities. I wouldn't call Isak's attitude disdain, per se, because he went out of his way to say that he respected Eskild for being true to himself. Unfortunately, Isak was only referring to a surface quality, mistaking that for something more real, and this was hurtful. He thought those surface qualities were nothing more than a kind of 'putting on airs' or acting out. He needed to be schooled.
Curtis Weeks
2023-04-18 05:25:00 +0000 UTC"don't trash on of the most important storylines in pop culture because you let your inner homophobe speak" YES!! THIS! exactly... it just left such a bad taste in my mouth and almost tainted Skam for me (but i won't let it), i'm glad i didn't like Vilde before either but i'm honestly a bit weary of watching scenes with her now... like i have to consciously turn off that thought in my brain, about those comments by the actress. so too bad. but Skam as a whole is amazing enough that i'll keep rewatching and raving about it forever. 😁 i would also be very interested in watching that whole tv series they did, with translations... i just saw that they had many projects and archives organized to celebrate the 50th anniversary of decriminalization, which sounded amazing, i just wish i knew more norwegian... but there was also the incident before Pride which was so disturbing... and Pride cancelled. 2022 was weird. they did have an alternative Pride in Oslo later in the year though.
xbujorx
2023-04-17 10:39:42 +0000 UTCalso, we actually know that Isak *has* been to a gay bar - that's where Eskild first met him in person - and even in the first season when we see his web search history with gay porn searches, he was also looking for 'gay guys in Oslo'... we don't get many more details but i'm pretty sure that we are supposed to know pretty early in this season that he has downloaded grindr before (he has an account that he just signs into when we see him downloading it). so yeah... he's not clueless by any means, he just doesn't dare to be honest yet.
xbujorx
2023-04-17 10:27:12 +0000 UTCpeople sharing their stories is so important, for all of us. i was a teen in the '90s and although i'd learned the term homosexual for the first time in middle school (in Europe, and not in the West), as a girl it wasn't until sometime in high school that i first associated my personal experience with queerness per se and that was by seeing Orlando the film... but then at that age even without the internet i very quickly discovered all this queer culture and history, gender and queer studies were becoming a thing, there were lesbian and queer spaces i could be in (at that point i was also in Midwestern US) and figure myself out, not that it's easy to do that ever, sexualities are so complex. but in Skam it's not the '80s, the '90s, or even the 2000s... it's 2016, and it's a country that's quite advanced lgbt rights wise in theory, and things are very different from decades ago. especially when it comes to having access to information - the internalized homophobia, clearly not so much judging by what the research for Skam revealed... and that's been my own experience, that until even more recently than 2016, many queer people and also very outspoken 'allies' felt this pressure to distance themselves from the 'unrespectable' members of the community, whatever respectability might mean (but we know what it mostly means), and that's 100% queerphobia and internalized queerphobia, and there has also always been a lot of transphobia even though trans people have always been in the first line fighting for many of our rights. we have to name these issues. it's a lot of things all at once, none of this is simple BUT i firmly believe that the point with Eskild's reaction in this conversation with Isak, the important point in these types of situations in general, is not that Isak isn't entitled to feel exactly how he feels in this moment, that it's not real for him or justified, but that the jump from that to expressing a form of disdain of queer people who fit the stereotype(s) better than him, instead of solidarity, is 1. not ok to do just from a human point of view because it hurts another person, 2. coming from being poorly informed and not having processed his own identity and not being honest to himself and those around him yet and 3. not going to ultimately help *him* in any way, though it may feel like it as he's trying to figure himself out. and that speech by Eskild just covers all of that so beautifully.
xbujorx
2023-04-17 10:13:30 +0000 UTCI was around the age of 13 when I first heard the word "queer" used by my peers, and I was confused. This was in conservative Midwest America in the mid-eighties, so there was ZERO representation *that I knew of* at the time. I asked my friends what that word, queer, meant, and they said something to the effect that 'It's when boys like dressing up as girls and acting like girls.' (They obviously only had a bare inkling of the topic, themselves.) I'd already had crushes on classmates, and dreams at night involving boys and romantic exchanges. But at the time, I thought, 'Huh?' and I knew I didn't feel like wearing dresses or 'acting like a girl,' so I shoved that word and any further exploration of the topic to the back of my mind. Gradually, many other questions surfaced, but I wouldn't come out for another six years or so. Not long after coming out, I met my first boyfriend in San Francisco. One day we were out doing something, and the place we went had this man's name on a placard, and the place was named after him, and I said, 'Uh, so who's this Harvey Milk guy?" Hah, my boyfriend, who had grown up in San Fransisco was absolutely floored because I had no idea who Harvey Milk was. I ended up marching in my first Pride parade alongside that boyfriend. It still took some time before I learned all about Stonewall and so much more of the history. All this personal history made me very sympathetic to Isak. Just living life, going to clubs and meeting other queer folk would quickly broaden his horizons. He's simply not done that yet.
Curtis Weeks
2023-04-17 03:09:48 +0000 UTCI’m glad you didn’t tell me because I was able to just watch and see the horror show for myself. If that comment was supposed to be a joke, it was a crappy one made in poor taste. Then she knew she said something wrong, because she immediately tried to follow up w/a comment, which didn’t help either. It seemed like she was flirting w/Tarjei the whole time anyway, like we get it, you guys are a thing. But don’t trash one of the most important storylines in pop culture because you let your inner homophobe slip. Not a good look at all. The 50 years later video was beautiful! I only found a clip initially (love Julie); I want to see the whole thing. Carl is awesome!
snallahej
2023-04-16 16:52:52 +0000 UTCi hope you enjoy the other video, though :) i loved it
xbujorx
2023-04-16 07:24:30 +0000 UTCsorry if it scarred you too, i almost wish i never watched that discussion till the end but at least Tarjei, who was otherwise pretty awkward and shy during most of it, had a very appropriate reaction of horror on his face at that comment and the discussion was worth it otherwise, i think. i didn't read through the comments there - i'm kinda scared of seeing people minimizing it. i didn't want to say exactly what she said so if you watched it you could make up your own mind but also because i hesitate to even write it down, all i know is it truly depressed me. i was so shocked. i did try to find something online about that comment, to see if there was some controversy following it, and it seems there was some outcry from fans, but it was ultimately brushed aside by everyone (including her in an apology maybe?!) as a joke. which is what she said at the moment, as well, but... IT'S NOT A JOKE! it was disrespectful to the fans of the show and just to queer people in general, and it depressed me because i don't get how such a 'joke' would even occur to her. which part is the joke?! i know she was young, i know 'we all make mistakes'... and they did laugh earlier about Julie telling Tarjei that Isak was gay all along. but that's completely different from a straight actress saying that she hopes that in the future Isak 'gets better'! wtf. i saw it being argued that it's ok because she is actually such an lgbt ally and a feminist and bla bla bla but no, sorry, it's just unacceptable. you have to actually SHOW you're an ally. and not be homophobic! it's pretty simple. and it's not as if she didn't know exactly what she implied, because then she said it was a joke, that she 'knows homosexuality is not an illness'. and then they brushed it aside. so disappointing...
xbujorx
2023-04-16 07:13:01 +0000 UTCHoly moly, I finally watched the first video you mentioned. YikesX1million on the Vilde actress. Some of the comments on the video are…wild if true. I’m not a fan of the Vilde character anyway, so….thanks again. Off to find the second vid!
snallahej
2023-04-16 03:42:22 +0000 UTCI don't want to say that I'm an old gay but I'm in my 30s now. I think Isak needed to be brought back into line but I think, like most of us, he was a bit ignorant to the history and struggles of our community. When I was growing up there wasn't really any representation of our community. The people you did see in our community were celebrities like Sir Elton John and Graham Norton. (The fact that neither of them are from here in the Commonwealth of Australia says a lot.) The adults in our society made it clear that they thought that was wrong. When I was growing up homosexuality was still illegal in states like Tasmania and opinion's were being debated and televised on the national news. I think that the way society portrayed our people and the way they portrayed their ideals (now considered quite toxic) of masculinity had a negative effect on a lot of people. I remember when I accepted my sexuality at 13 thinking, like Isak, that I'm gay but I'm not *that* kind of gay, which I know now is wrong and that our community is diverse and accepting but I was trying to make a conclusion about something I had no idea about. We didn't have LGBTQ+ characters in TV shows or movies that were accessible to watch, we didn't have the access to community, YouTube was only invented around the time I came out. It wasn't until I was 19 that I met someone who was openly gay. When I was told about an LGBTQ+ community group I got to meet other people from across our community. Because there hadn't been education about our people I learnt so much, met people from diverse backgrounds and started to understand that we're as diverse as any group and there's no right or wrong was to be LGBTQ+ and that all we want is to be happy and respected. Once I started to learn our queer history from the chaotic and disruptive LGBTQ+ events from the 1950s to the murder of openly gay law Professor George Duncan, who was drowned in the River Torrens in 1972. This led to a 'Proud Parade' in 1973 which led to South Australia becoming the first State to decriminalise homosexuality in 1975. It was a whole hidden history that we had never been taught. When it comes to Pride marches I don't think anyone can really understand them until you've been to one. I attended and marched in my first pride march in 2007. There's something unique about being surrounded by an unusually large number of your community and our allies. Where it's safe and supportive. I've marched in every pride since then (it was cancelled in 2020/21 due to covid), first with the Health department and with the Ambulance service every year they've attended. In a similar event we held coordinated rallies in all State and Territory capitals in 2017 calling for marriage equality and it was one of the best, most worthwhile things I've ever done - and I've saved peoples lives. Whilst Isak was wrong with what he was saying, he is still young and doesn't understand things as well as Eskild. He has a lot to learn and understand and I hope that the conversation that Eskild had with him is going to put him on the path to understanding that and becoming a better person. Oh and Tasmania finally decriminalised homosexuality in 1997, 22 years after South Australia.
Ryan Walter
2023-04-16 03:18:11 +0000 UTCOne of the more subtle character defining bits of this episode that gets missed is their conversation about "being the director of your life" vs "parallel universes." We get some insight on Isak longing for the freedom to be what he never allows himself to be (and that in another universe its already happening and happened) and we get some foreshadowing on Even's longing for control of the direction his life takes (for reasons I won't spoil). This exchange gets drowned out by the drama of Even's back and forth and the poignancy of Iskild's clapback but it is a nice touch that I've caught after a rewatch or ten.
Stephen Young
2023-04-15 07:41:22 +0000 UTC... and it must be said that there is still a glaring lack of lesbian/queer female characters - not just of accurate and nuanced portrayals but any representation period - and also problems with the mass appeal of such stories and interest from the powers that be in keeping them going once they exist. this content is even more slowly coming than good queer content in general, and it's a huge frustration (OG Skam is a good example of this absence but i know that other remakes have done a good job with this representation as well, especially Druck i think)
xbujorx
2023-04-13 08:07:59 +0000 UTC*about the girls though, and their respective 'boyfriends': while Even and Sonja have been together for years, so Sonja is actually someone Even needs to be accountable to, Isak is definitely not Emma's boyfriend at any point and Emma has no claim over him. he doesn't even truly lead her on, he just showed some interest initially then not, and goes back and forth on it, mostly at her insistence, but anything 'more' is just some idea of her own making, so i don't think she's even entitled to feel that hurt that he's with someone else, let alone take him to task for actually being gay and also out him to the whole school out of spite or whatever it is... there's very few scenarios between guys and girls in which misogynistic attitudes towards girls don't play a role, but i think in this case it's actually the girl who is being an asshole, and is doing the heteronormative thing to the detriment of the guy (and ultimately herself) - interestingly, since Isak was actually trying to BE a typical straight guy with her, posturing in front of the other guys, and is using her in that sense (which is what he does feel guilty about, and rightly so). she's entitled to say/be upset about 'being used' but she could also show some understanding and sympathy to Isak when she understands the position he's in, but she does the opposite... and they're kids, yeah, so it's not surprising cause this stuff is complicated even for adults to process, but on the other hand you do know when you're not being kind or fair even as a kid...
xbujorx
2023-04-13 07:51:51 +0000 UTCyeah, Julie Andem has talked about how that's exactly what Isak is based on as a character, while doing the research for the show she talked to a lot of gay teens who felt like this and needed a story like this to be told - although i would argue that a story like Eskild's also hasn't been told very much to this day, not with a complex 3 dimensional character. as you say, it's only been very recently that we are finally getting queer content that actually covers a wide range of stories and characters, to reflect real life, and not just the stereotypical stuff. and that includes stereotypes about 'gay-gays'. for instance, i am so happy that something like Fire Island the movie exists now - *that* level of representation, complexity and honesty (although even there, the main characters are the more cis-masculine guys). let's be honest, the culture at large is more comfortable with male role models - - gay or straight - that are closer to its stereotypes about masculinity, so there's that. a story about a gay teen like Isak, while being quite revolutionary in some ways (in 2016) was always gonna have more wide-spread appeal and acceptance and we see that over and over again. even in Skam, Eskild, who's 'the gay gay' (and he's not even THAT 'flamboyant' really), is still the side kick type character. that video from last year for the 50th anniversary of the decriminalization of homosexuality in Norway, where Julie and Carl Martin and a few other people talk about the impact of Skam S3 on queer people and queer representation, is full of some great points - besides the fact that while playing Eskild he identified more with Isak, Carl Martin also mentions that he is glad that the show didn't keep Eskild totally one-dimensional; and in another video i mentioned in another comment, he also says something about the fact that he wishes he got to make out in the show too, and mentioned it to Julie, but she said there was no time for it, and that also stuck with me... i don't know, i'm personally very interested in Eskild's story and point of view as well, and I feel like there aren't enough crumbs - actually, one of my favorite things to find was a scene and some additional material that Julie wrote, which are about the meeting between Isak and Eskild at the gay bar and a bit of Eskild's backstory in his own voice (in some chats with Isak), which is super moving and poignant. and it's also very interesting for Isak's story.
xbujorx
2023-04-13 07:16:08 +0000 UTCof course, the problem is Even outing Isak (even to 'just' Sonja, even if he did tell her to keep quiet and was actually expecting that she would do the decent thing and not spread that kind of information and not feel at all hurt/betrayed and not-so-kindly inclined towards either Isak or himself), without first talking to *him* about it. although we don't know everything they talked about when they were hiding away at Isak's for an entire day, it's clear from Isak's reaction in the changing room scene that he's been blindsided, so this scenario must be news to him - they haven't talked at all for a couple of days and he has no idea what's going on. i mean poor Isak, he's very happy Even wants to be with him and he and Sonja are 'taking a break', but he's got to be feeling pretty shitty too about his hand being forced like this about coming out, and it's also pretty clear that he doesn't quite have the tools to deal with all this stuff... you almost feel bad enough for him that you don't even notice when he says what he says talking about his mother! there's just so much going on in that scene on so many different levels (and i know they shot many takes of it and the guys improvised a lot and strayed from the script quite a bit apparently, trying to make it work). BUT one thing i've actually wondered about is the possibility that Even is not telling Isak the truth there and Sonja actually guessed 'about him' (and about him and Even) herself, but Even doesn't want to get into all that for various reasons, it's obvious he's being very secretive somehow........ anyway we know he's *not* prioritizing being careful about outing Isak.
xbujorx
2023-04-13 06:27:48 +0000 UTCOn the other hand, Sonja isn't an idiot. If Even breaks up with her, she's gonna figure out that it's because Even has met someone new, and it's also obvious that it's Isak. We never got to see the conversation Even has with Sonja, but we can hope he told her to keep quiet since Isak isn't out yet. But of course Sonja and Emma are going to talk. They've both been "dumped" because their "boyfriends" chose each other, of course they had a venting session, bitching about the boys.
Henrik Schröder
2023-04-12 19:57:45 +0000 UTCYes, the one thing to remember is that there's no one true translation and all the others are wrong. This particular conversation can't be accurately translated to English, so every translator has to make a choice here. I made a different choice than what these particular subtitles did. (And they chose wrong! 😛)
Henrik Schröder
2023-04-12 19:46:49 +0000 UTCYes, Isak deserves the smackdown from Eskild, *but* he also has a point. There aren't very many role models for boys like him. Boys who like beer and football and playstation and 90's hiphop and FIFA and beer and other boys. And that lack of role models causes Isak to experience a whole lot more internalized homophobia than what probably Eskild experienced growing up. I'm super happy that a lot of recent queer TV series and movies are presenting a much broader ensemble of gay people, and thereby creating these role models that we need. Love, Simon, and Love, Victor does the same thing, and has these conversations. And then you have shows like Young Royals and The Last of Us which just present a crapton of queer characters that are unlike anything we've seen on TV before. I love it!
Henrik Schröder
2023-04-12 19:39:16 +0000 UTCThank you so much for sharing this! I will definitely check out those videos. I’m worried about what Vilde’s actress said. Yikes.
snallahej
2023-04-12 19:07:40 +0000 UTCyeah i love Carl Martin!! i've heard him talk about this in two interviews, one of them is from 2017 and it's actually a panel discussion with several of the kids from Skam right after the show ended - it was really interesting and touching, especially because Tarjei who plays Isak mentioned that he was so deeply affected during that scene by Carl Martin's acting and the speech that Eskild gives Isak that he could barely keep going (there's also a terrible comment during that discussion made by the actress who plays Vilde that will forever haunt me, so i actually hate thinking about that discussion, but that's a different matter), and the other place that Carl Martin talked about how he identified more with Isak at the time is a video from last year on 'Isak and Even from Skam' that's part of a series called 'Out - 50 years of legal love' made for the 50th anniversary of the decriminalization of homosexuality in Norway, that video is so lovely... you can find both of them with translations on youtube (the first one as 'Skam actors on Nordiske Seriedager')
xbujorx
2023-04-12 05:55:48 +0000 UTCI agree! I’d say it’s a culture thing. Here, people go on A date, and if it’s successful, if they maybe kiss at the end of it - people consider themselves together. A pair. Partners. At least young people still in school. The opposite would be American culture where people still label it as dating after going our for YEARS. People might be doing the same stuff - but the label for it changes with culture (going out/dating/being together). Also I never saw it as Even explicitly asking Isak to be his boyfriend in the changing rooms. I saw it as him prodding a bit to see if it’s even a possibility. If Isak was even interested in something serious.
Cornelia Svärdström
2023-04-12 05:28:21 +0000 UTCWow, what a rollercoaster of an episode. You’re reactions were great. And so many good topics for discussion. Thanks!
JustinThyme
2023-04-12 05:10:13 +0000 UTCi was actually so glad that you pointed out that Even telling Sonja 'about Isak' is very wrong of him! i had the same reaction it seems so obvious but i've never heard anyone remark on this before. that scene is very intense and there are a lot of emotions and things both said and unsaid going on with both of them there, but it's really important to point out that Even didn't seem to think about the impact this would have on Isak at all, and he's not careful about his coming out at all. i mean he is checking in with him now, but it's a bit late - he could have easily anticipated that Sonja would tell Emma and from Emma it would get to the whole school. and while nobody seems to be particularly homophobic around Isak other than the heteronormative pressure and the guys talking shit all the time and using 'are you gay' tauntingly, everyone including Even has no problem casually outing someone. it's a bit worrisome that this isn't discussed more, honestly (within the show and by the fans). i mean without giving any spoilers, even when first watching at this point we suspect that Even is more comfortable with his sexuality and he must be more out in one way or another than Isak, this gets confirmed by the way he so nonchalantly says he told Sonja about Isak, but it's very jarring that he did it that way and didn't go the route you were suggesting when 'telling her', one that wouldn't involve outing Isak without consulting with him at all first...
xbujorx
2023-04-12 04:48:14 +0000 UTCthose are also important points, although i wouldn't say that not being queer enough for the lgbtq community is Isak's fear here. he is 17 actually. and the criticism is not that he's expected to perfectly articulate what his fears/issues are or anyone overlooking his position, Eskild was completely understanding when he first started saying he's not 'gay gay' (he initially says to Isak that it doesn't matter, that the important thing is he found someone he likes, and we also know he's been waiting patiently and gently for Isak to come to terms with being gay and come out in his own time), however IT IS fair to expect him not to speak disparagingly of 'that kind of gay' and essentially insult Eskild to his face in the process of trying to express himself. he may not be aware he was doing that, as he's not about internalized homophobia, but he most definitely was doing it and that's exactly why he needed to be told, to realize it. also it is 2016 in norway, and while that doesn't mean that he needs to just get himself out of the closet as Emma so delicately puts it, the expectations as far as knowing at least a little bit more about lgbt history and the importance of gay pride *can* be a bit higher... but i really think the point here, from Eskild, is to make Isak understand his whole position on the not being 'gay gay' thing is internalized homophobia - and trying to make him really feel/understand what a negative thing it is (for both himself and when he says stuff like that to 'someone like Eskild').
xbujorx
2023-04-12 04:03:37 +0000 UTCGood thing you did bc I was going to 😜 no reason to feel ashamed
Joanna
2023-04-12 03:45:21 +0000 UTClove u guys' reaction! this ep is the most perfect emotional rollercoaster, from the first second to the last, it's the best
Laura Cruz
2023-04-12 01:20:46 +0000 UTCThanks for the info about Carl Martin Eggesbo! He is my king. Appreciate your other points as well. Alex and Josh’s conversation made me think about how some people even in the queer community overlook or dismiss the B in LGBTQ. Like, there are so many members of the club, folks. Let’s not divide ourselves internally when there are enough external forces that mean harm. 💜
snallahej
2023-04-12 00:25:51 +0000 UTCMusic note: another great example of the music giving insights into the main character. Great song choices for Isak going to and leaving the party.
snallahej
2023-04-12 00:21:38 +0000 UTCGreat catch on bad news pairs!
snallahej
2023-04-12 00:19:19 +0000 UTCEmma makes me so mad, but I remind myself on every rewatch that she’s even younger than baby Isak. Not an excuse, but I recognize the emotional maturity isn’t there.
snallahej
2023-04-12 00:16:43 +0000 UTCEskild is my King from day 1. I 💜 not only what he said in this ep, but how he calmly and straightforwardly broke it down for Isak.
snallahej
2023-04-12 00:12:57 +0000 UTCOKAY! Can you two do a live when you're done watching this? There are sooooo many things that need to be unpacked, and it can't happen with just one watch. There is so much in each episode that can be easily missed (like the locker thing that you mentioned), but you won't see the significance till later/second watch. Please? 🥹
Amira Mustapha
2023-04-11 23:53:39 +0000 UTCI think this is a really good point, and I was just coming here to say something similar. Yes, straight people have stereotypes of what it is to be queer, but within the queer community if you don’t “act gay” you will be told that you aren’t “queer enough”. Isak is what, 15? Most adults would struggle to communicate that they don’t feel comfortable being more stereotypically gay, I don’t think it’s fair to expect a kid to be able to articulate that well. At this point I’m old enough not to care, but I can say from experience that it is really hard to look at what is supposed to be your community and not see yourself in it. Hannah Gadsby has a great bit about watching pride on tv as a teen and wondering if she really was gay, because she couldn’t figure out “where all the quiets gays were.” (And I’ll put my little psychologist hat on here and say, it is a totally normal thing for an adolescent to put themselves above others as a defense mechanism in this type of situation. “Oh, it’s fine that the idea of acting like ‘those people’ scares me, because I don’t need them anyways.”)
Lisabeth Kelly
2023-04-11 23:28:36 +0000 UTCLMAOOOO @ "I can't keep up!" I'm dying, lol!!
Amira Mustapha
2023-04-11 23:15:09 +0000 UTCHoly Cow! What an emotional Roller Coaster that was!!!
Diane Furlong
2023-04-11 23:04:19 +0000 UTCOne more thing.. I don't really think they are moving unusually fast. In my experience, dating and taking things slow is not a thing in scandinavia.. or at least it wasn't when I grew up. Meeting at a party, hooking up and being a couple the next day was the norm really :)
annanas
2023-04-11 22:45:29 +0000 UTCWhy aren't there any gays in Twilight? Likely because the author is a practicing Mormon who abstains from alcohol, caffeine and even R-rated movies. So, no room for gays, but all bets are off when it comes to preternatural CGI vampire babies imprinting on self-pitying adult CGI werewolves. Feeling ashamed of myself that THIS is what I felt compelled to comment on. And that I knew the answer.
HouseTrolls
2023-04-11 22:37:17 +0000 UTCI agree, Isak seems to keep getting hit with pairs of bad news. It's like in episode 2 just after he sees Even kiss Sonja for the first time, then he gets the text asking him why he's lying about why he wasn't going to the pre-party.
Curtis Weeks
2023-04-11 22:27:49 +0000 UTCThat Jesus shirt.. in a previous season Eskild wore it and at some point Isak does.. don't know what it means though :), but I like the way they use clothes and colors to emphasize a character's state of mind through out this show. About Even telling Sonja, I actually don't think he had much choice. Not to defend him, but I think she guessed what was going on already in ep 2, or at least when they just left the girls at halloween, didn't come home for 24h and ignored her calls! Another thing I really like is how all bad things happen in pairs, like when Eskild has made Isak feel really bad (rightfully so), he immediately gets the text from Even saying things went to fast, and when Emma tells him to get out of the closet and he turns to Even, he finds he's with Sonja.. sad but very effectful somehow, he just can't catch a break :(
annanas
2023-04-11 22:23:01 +0000 UTCI would add that Isak's putting himself above others, even if it was mostly subconscious, was the problem, because as you said it was really internalized homophobia. But I can speak from experience and say the coming out process can be much harder and even delayed for years if a young gay person has only one model of what it is to be gay. 'Well, I'm not like that....so what am I?' With age comes wisdom, so these existential problems have a way of working themselves out. For a young person, sorting through all that is much harder.
Curtis Weeks
2023-04-11 22:19:59 +0000 UTCabout that line, it's a thing about norwegian, where the difference between a hypothetical past and future tense is more ambiguous than in english, it's an important point and there's a few in depth explanations out there and why people chose different translations but i think it's a bit spoilerish at this point so i'll refrain from quoting them. at any rate, it's been said many times before in the comments, this particular translation they're using is not one of the better ones, for sure.
xbujorx
2023-04-11 22:04:08 +0000 UTCYes I thought it seemed a bit off from what I remembered. I know Even is quite intense, but I remember it being more him trying to understand what Isak was thinking
Natasha A
2023-04-11 21:59:39 +0000 UTCyeah.. the correct translation is "I think they would have liked you". That scene was strangely translated through out, making Even seem more forward than he actually was. I think he just tried to figure out where Isak's at..
annanas
2023-04-11 21:56:50 +0000 UTCI was really looking forward to seeing your reaction to the Isak/Eskild convo, and then you made it even better by having it before seeing the scene lol. It’s one of my favourite scenes in Skam, and seeing Eskild change from his usual fun persona to get so serious gives it even more impact. It’s interesting to see the changes with different translations also. In the scene in the locker room, there is a subtle difference in the translation I have seen. When Isak asks about what Even’s parents would think of him, the translation said “they’ll love you.” In the one I have, he says “They would’ve loved you.”
Natasha A
2023-04-11 21:26:44 +0000 UTCI've been looking forward to your reaction to this particular episode, precisely because of the conversation between Isak and Eskild. I feel the other, foreign versions of Skam never replicated so well the tension- and truth-filled delivery of this message, not really. I want to say however that I don't think it's fair to entirely overlook Isak's position. Yes, he needed to be bombarded with that truth, but still he's speaking from a position as a Looky Gay rather than a Funny Gay or Dancey Gay, as Alex put it during the reaction to episode 3. In other words, he's still trying to figure himself out, and he's never going to be flamboyant or rah-rah-rah as others might naturally be within the community. And that's okay. I don't imagine Bill and Frank needed Gay Pride in order to have a long and loving relationship and a happy life. (Although I wouldn't be surprised if Frank indeed attended Gay Pride events before the apocalypse!)
Curtis Weeks
2023-04-11 21:26:12 +0000 UTCPlay nice boys! Alex is aglow and Josh in a cap.
Diane Furlong
2023-04-11 21:07:47 +0000 UTCI feel this is a kinda roller coaster of emotions episode, where they just seem so lovely dovey at first and comfortable enough to have that kinda serious talk(they were just so cute and sweet together), and then after the talk in the locker room(I see how it can be seen as if he outed Isak, which is not good), Even becomes distant and ends up back with his girlfriend, which understandably hurts Isak, and he can't understand that/understand why, and you really feel for him. Isak is still kinda distant to his friends, don't want to talk to them propperly(and yeah he kinda made himself feel left out, but he is still figuring out stuff), but at least Jonas knows, that something is wrong. Isak really needed to hear, what Eskild had to say. Also it felt like what Emma said at the party coming from her being hurt and angry, that he lead her on, but she shouldn't decide, when he should come out.
Sara Nissen
2023-04-11 20:51:24 +0000 UTCand i'm so glad you are going into such in-depth conversations around these episodes! your reactions and your discussions are everything, seriously! i'm really happy you are pointing out all of these ways in which the characters are making poor choices, saying wrong things, or just acting clueless, or just strange... some of them will be clarified/resolved, some not, but in a lot of the cases the show is about the characters learning to deal with the issues and their own failures and other people or obstacles they face, and basically what being honest about those struggles and basically being empathetic can look like in practice, especially for a guy like Isak. so i think it's really helpful to have the conversations you're having and it's just amazing listening to you dissect the show while you're watching it. plus the enjoyment of moments where Skam is just beautiful, or groundbreaking and a breath of fresh air or all of the above - like the opening scene of this episode, with them cuddling, or Eskild's speech. ❤️❤️
xbujorx
2023-04-11 20:40:55 +0000 UTCnot you having the Isak-Eskild conversation before they had it in the show! that was amazing, and i loved how Alex was getting to basically the same main point as Eskild before even watching that scene, that no matter 'what kind of queer you are' (and anyway it's only internalized homophobia that makes you feel like being queer means you'd have to fit into a certain stereotype), you still MUST respect the community/those who came before and fought for whatever rights we do have today! and you are not allowed to disparage what makes you uncomfortable/is disparaged by the cis-hetero culture at large which glorifies 'masculinity' and looks down on 'femininity' etc. etc.. i've also had this exact conversation before, both with other queer people and so-called 'allies', who were insisting that very 'visibly queer' people, non-cis people especially (oftentimes it's pure transphobia) are doing a disservice to them as queer people or the community as it's seen by the straight world, that THEY are not like that, basically trying to distance themselves from *those* kinds of gay people... this point that we should make ourselves as respectable and acceptable to straight people in order to fit in/BE accepted is not rare, and you've gotta shut it down, every time. and Eskild's speech is so good! i think he's just the right amount of caring/stern towards Isak (although i've seen people watching Skam - non-queer people mostly to be fair - who think that he's a bit 'too harsh' with Isak there) and he - and the show - give that moment such weight, and that's only right. i think it's such a good thing that this show included that scene, because it's essential to talk about this, in this way! and it's really important for kids - and adults too - to hear it. as a side note - but it's so telling - even Carl Martin Eggesbo, who plays Eskild and who's gay and was very much out at the time he was in the show, actually said that when he played that scene he actually felt more like Isak and struggled to understand where Eskild was coming from! it just blows my mind... but i'm so so glad that speech happens in this episode, and Carl Martin did SUCH a good job with it, despite the fact that he was essentially talking to himself too...
xbujorx
2023-04-11 20:27:51 +0000 UTCI love what you said about Isak not being perfect and I completely agree with you, that's actually one of the reasons I love this show so much, it's really realistic. The characters make mistakes, they're not perfect, but who is in the real world? The Skam roller-coaster has started, buckle up, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
millie
2023-04-11 20:14:24 +0000 UTCSKAM France season3 is also amazing!! I really hope they watch it next
Mark G
2023-04-11 19:51:59 +0000 UTCThis is not even the most shocking thing happening this season. You guys are in for a ride! Love the reactions <3
anon922
2023-04-11 19:50:13 +0000 UTCWTFOCK season 3.
Nina
2023-04-11 18:52:21 +0000 UTCNo matter how many times I’ve watched this episode it is as emotional as the first time and I loved your reactions. I was losing it when you basically predicted the discussion between Isak and Iskild. Isak’s story arc and character development (all 4 seasons) is one of my all time favorites. It’s is beautifully written and so representative to what it actually is to be a teenager finding your way. Please watch, if not all the seasons, at least season four. There are more moment between Evan and Isak. Also I really really hope you might react to WTFOCK. (In my opinion the best of the remakes)
Nina
2023-04-11 18:49:13 +0000 UTCGreat to hear your thoughts on this episode! Also, I'm sure you'll love the Skam France version!
GroovyGadget
2023-04-11 18:30:13 +0000 UTCI think I am warming up to this. But it's largely because of you guys. Don't think I would ever have watched it without you two.
Dennis Verner
2023-04-11 18:20:51 +0000 UTCThis is one of my favorite episodes - it feels like a lifetime from where it started with them kissing on Isak’s bed to how it ends with our baby Isak crying on the sidewalk. Amazing reaction as always and really appreciate how much you discussed the important scenes ❤️ top tier reaction for a top tier episode 🙌🏾
Laura Ibarra
2023-04-11 18:04:50 +0000 UTCI was so looking forward to your reaction to this episode, and I was not disappointed! You guys have such great conversations that really are thought provoking. As far as it “going too fast”, keep in mind that there have been several weeks of intensive flirting. Also, it’s not really clear how far they went together. All we really saw was kissing and a lot of talking. Of course, Isak woke up without too much clothes on. But in the locker room, there was a bit of a translation error. According to the subtitles, Even asked what Isak’s parents would say if he became his boyfriend, but that’s not exactly what he said. He actually asked what his parents would say if Isak got together with him. It’s a small distinction but it is significant. If Even had actually used the word kjæreste (boyfriend or girlfriend) that would be a lot more serious. I think he was just asking if Isak’s parents would have a problem with him liking boys.
Mariah Daley
2023-04-11 18:04:15 +0000 UTCTwo things: I am so pleased that you are doing not only uncut reactions, but long uncut reactions! Some really interesting discussions as well as some laughs, the combination which makes me enjoy your reactions so much, guys-and Alex’s facial expressions didn’t disappoint! (And this is from someone who isn’t really into SKAM) And secondly, the guy who plays Eskild is the best actor in the show, in my opinion.
Graham & Ruth May
2023-04-11 18:03:52 +0000 UTCHaven’t finished the episode but I had to come and say that I absolutely LOVED the conversation that Eskild had with Isak AND I very much agree with the way you have discussed it. When you were having the conversation earlier I was like “OH MAN!! I can’t wait until they get to that scene!” Ok - going back to finish it 🙂
Laura Ibarra
2023-04-11 17:39:07 +0000 UTCEskild is ❤️. He supports Isak but also calls him out on his bullshit, which is exactly what Isak needs.
Gimsan
2023-04-11 17:23:23 +0000 UTCI think it’s really interesting how Isak dealt with the whole situation. Keep in mind, boys got game. He’s used to girls wanting to tap that, know what I mean? But this is the first time he’s liked someone (other than his crush on xxxxx) and had them reciprocate. He was steamrolled by the newness of that feeling most of this episode so you see him wear “clothes” he’s really not comfortable in or ready for yet and it makes his breaking down at the end of it so hard to watch. He thought he was walking down this road hand in hand with someone and that person left him out there. Alone. Exposed. Um, yeah, lots of thoughts on Even but… Can’t separate them from knowledge you guys don’t yet have so…
MauMau
2023-04-11 17:02:42 +0000 UTCOMG at 24:07 you guys look away - such a funny moment there!!!
dnh1286
2023-04-11 16:43:27 +0000 UTCI love that skam essentially gave Isak a gay older brother, it's such a good and interesting relationship and Eskild is a wonderful character ❤️
Lonely_viking
2023-04-11 16:39:56 +0000 UTCTo episoder på samme dag!!!! (Get it?) Overload! Thanks Josh and Alex!!
Stian Kristoffersen
2023-04-11 16:19:05 +0000 UTCYes! Can’t wait to watch 🙌🏻
JustinThyme
2023-04-11 16:06:00 +0000 UTCWoohoo, something to look forward to when I get home from work this evening! Thanks guys
Diane Furlong
2023-04-11 15:42:21 +0000 UTC
