Attack on Titan Season 4: Episode 15 FULL LENGTH Reaction!
Added 2022-02-26 14:00:05 +0000 UTCLINK TO REACTION: https://streamable.com/8wg1d0
**HEADPHONE WARNING**
I have waited for Zeke's backstory since well before I even knew it was Zeke in the Beast Titan...and the wait was definitely worth it, but WOW...we finally get the "B Side" of "That Day" and get to see the much darker story of Zeke's childhood...or lack thereof. Everything makes sense and ties to Zeke's "Master Plan"...that Eren seems on board with...me, personally, though? **nervous chuckle** I hope you all forgive me for my theories and thoughts on this "plan"...the recap is going to be a nightmare, isn't it?
Welp, there's a lot to discuss, and we still have the season finale of PART ONE to come. Hoo boy. Wine-chan's going to need to be re-stocked, aren't they?
Thank you for watching with me and for all the support!
Comments
This was definitely the "dark side" to "That Day," showing how warped Grisha had become as a father while being so hyper-focused on the mission. While I'm glad he changed for Eren as a father, it doesn't undo what he did to Zeke and how it affected him, and that's so sad...but yes! Now we know about Zeke, "The Plan," and the stakes with the rest of the series! FUN TIMES! XD
Romaniablack
2022-03-02 21:56:46 +0000 UTCYAY!! I'm glad!! :D
Romaniablack
2022-03-02 21:38:54 +0000 UTCHard episode but it was worth the wait especially since Zeke's backstory was all on our minds since he was full of mystery. It's crazy I never thought this would be his story. It's so sad & for this to be the motivation of "The plan" it's just crazy. Boy was my praise of Grisha diminished so fast😂It's so sad that he put his mission first & put that all on Zeke but I understand. He was desperate & knew this was a once in a lifetime chance. It's just terrible that it ended up ruining there family. I'm glad Zeke had Kruger tho. The father that he deserved. Btw I still love Grisha, he's done alot for the story & made huge sacrifices. Terrible father to Zeke, heartbreaking but yea this is what it all lead us to. So happy you know now lol
Nyjae
2022-03-01 22:44:57 +0000 UTCHa! This one stick 😂😂 hallelujah 😁
Be Happy
2022-03-01 15:14:40 +0000 UTCWELL!! After multiple comments have disapeared from this comment section , I am going to re write my initial one, because I cannot not talk about my FAVORITE episode :) I love this episode , it is just That day 2.0 .. such a game changer !! Well how to describe this one :: Just another day in the happy Jaeger family !!! Zeke is tragic and a very complex character.. his childhood molded him ... but all he wanted was to be loved by his family, that’s why he tears up when Eren called him brother! I find it quiet sad really !! Those Jaeger brothers are a league of their own in complexity and psychological struggles and ....are hot 😂 Grish was a shitty father to Zeke, there is no tip toeing about it , he sees Zeke only as a tool to his obssession of restoring Eldia but not as a son !! It's alarming that the first thing he said when he had baby Zeke after his birth was : " a son with royal blood !!" shows you how far gone he was in his sole mission. At least, he was aware of that aspect of his past,because he wrote in the books in the basement .. I remember those were his own words !! In my opinion, Dina was a decent mother compared to Grisha , but she also let her son be used and psychologically and emotionnaly manipulated by her and his father so not mother of the year but better than Grisha ! Mr Ksaver just as Willy Tybur and the Owl is one of those characters that appeared a little but their impact on the trajectory of the story is tremendous . Mr Ksaver memory is vivid in his memory and the visual representation is stunning, it’s like he sees that constantly, it s living with him Happy you caught on the wagon imagery 😉 So in this episode you have an answer to the question you posed in episode 10 what happened 10 months ago that pushes Eren to act like he is acting now ? Well Yelena happenend, she met him and told him about Zeke's Euthanazation plan and was a messenger to set a meeting between the two powerful brothers . And it was convenient to be an injured soldier in the eldian hospital where Granpa is so the meeting wouldn’t raise any suspicions There is more to it but you will learn it in time. So basically Zeke needs Eren and Eren needs Zeke but do they trust each other? There is no greater salvation than never to be born # I was born in this world In episode 14 : Zeke miscalculation was that he thought Levi wouldn’t kill his comrades and in episode 15: Levi ´s miscalculation is to think Zeke wouldn’t kill himself. Just a reminder : the plan presented to Paradis is that they would activate a ‘partial’ rumbling on a small scale to intimidate the world so they leave them alone. No wiping the world out is in the menu according to episode 9 (or 10)
Be Happy
2022-03-01 15:13:50 +0000 UTCIt just makes so much sense Zeke turned out the way he does. I do not agree with him, but I see where he is coming from. It's amazing how one sentence you hear as a child can stick with you for your whole life. Marley doesn't hate the Eldians just for being able to become Titans but also because of what their ancestors seemingly did. So making their bodies unable to become titans probably wouldn't change how the Eldians get treated. Yeah I'm also wondering how excactly Ksaver became the beast titan if he isn't useful in the war. I guess he promised to share the researches with Marley but he didn't told them everything? That would be something I could think of. I do believe that Ksaver was pitying Zeke and was genuine. At the point he met Zeke, Ksaver was deeply depressed and wanted to die. I have to say when Skaver told Zeke Grisha and Dina never cared how he felt and didn't loved him, I think he is right. The only times they gave him "love" was when Zeke answered something right that Grisha tought him about what their thinking is the true worlds history. It seemed like they really only used Zeke and not loved him. Maybe I'm biased and just can't see it. I do agree that Skaver did manipulate Zeke. Be it unknowingly or intentional, I don't know. I love the visuals when Skaver told Zeke about his family. That was so well done. Zeke underestimated Levi and Levi underestimated Zeke's will to complete his mission. Wish you a wonderful day!!
Toni simi
2022-03-01 12:36:06 +0000 UTCIt's incredibly tragic for Zeke that he's like that because of his childhood and so morbid to think that in the moment, to stay "on track" as he's killing all of those soldiers, to repress back to a childhood past time to get through it...warped, indeed. :'<
Romaniablack
2022-02-27 15:23:34 +0000 UTCThat is INCREDIBLY sad! :( Especially adding to the weight to tell Zeke to report them.
Romaniablack
2022-02-27 15:22:28 +0000 UTCThat's a good point! It's an odd phrasing from Yelena to Pyxis in that episode, knowing they have Armin as the Colossal Titan, but I was probably looking into it too much! :) Thanks!
Romaniablack
2022-02-27 15:22:06 +0000 UTCAhhhh, that's a good note -- I guess we'll find out soon enough, eh? :)
Romaniablack
2022-02-27 15:21:08 +0000 UTCSasha and Erwin's deaths have probably been two of the most impactful in the series! I wholeheartedly agree!
Romaniablack
2022-02-27 15:20:52 +0000 UTCIt's not perfect, either -- there are literally hardly any "Great" choices in the AOT world, but being on the same "playing field" as the rest of the world and showing them they weren't "monsters" and the same as the rest of the world could lead to at least a talk coming to the table, since there wouldn't be the fear that the Eldians would turn into titans. The rumbling as a deterrent is still going to kill people on the other side, and like Jean's going to point out in the next episode -- by the time all the Eldians are old, they won't be able to defend themselves and who's to say the rest of the world won't just attack an island of senior citizens and slaughter them? I don't knowwwwwwww **holds head in hands** A "gentle genocide" to me is still a genocide, but this story really doesn't like making anything easy, does it? Haha!
Romaniablack
2022-02-27 14:20:54 +0000 UTCBut..but...Romania, taking away the ability to turn Eldians into Titan doesn't solve the problem either, in some way it could be worse. The hatred toward Eldians would still be there, but now without the Titan's power to protect themselves. Marley no longer have use for the Eldians, they would be all genocided. At least Zeke's plan, Eldians people can still have 100 years to die out in peace instead of being slaughtered. If you wondered about the "fake" Zeke's plan for Paradis, there is some truth mixed in them, Zeke wants to use the Rumbling as a deterrent for an attack from outside until all the Eldian dies out.
Trung Ta
2022-02-27 06:56:27 +0000 UTCThat is REALLY tragic! :( It definitely makes the situation a lot more layered...thanks for sharing that info!
Romaniablack
2022-02-27 03:29:37 +0000 UTCIt's so sad, because there's a part of all of us that I think "gets" where people come from with that...and if that's someone's choice, totally -- it's just sad to think that an entire race of people have to be wiped out in this story without a future. :( Isayama really wants to hit home that "let's not have it get this far" meme, eh?
Romaniablack
2022-02-27 03:29:03 +0000 UTCHahaha, as soon as I decided to pour a glass, I knew I had to make that joke! :)
Romaniablack
2022-02-27 03:27:38 +0000 UTCI always saw Ksaver as 100% genuine in this episode. It would be more tragic for Zeke if he wasn't, wich would perhaps fit AoT nicely, but for me the episode works better if Ksaver has no ulterior motive. "All aboard" -sobs-
Christopher Pettersson
2022-02-26 19:18:04 +0000 UTCOh, also, i think there is a good portion of influence by what other japanese works have commented on christianity, the Titan ability of the Eldians being a metaphor for "original sin" (can't be removed, eh ?) and "salvation in death/non-existence" being likened to christianity as a death cult obsessed with life, death and resurrection, which imo since i see a lot of predominantly atheistic school of thought, makes for one hell of a cocktail of ideas that Isayama threw together here :) I could go on about specifics, but i don't think it is as on the nose as it is in other works, but i can see the mindset these ideas tap into.
SpaceMonkey
2022-02-26 18:57:07 +0000 UTCImo Ksaver (maybe let's just call him "Tom" ? ;P ) might come off as disingenuous, because his words need to be understood in the grander picture. He's depressed, deeply so, for him life is suffering and becoming a Titan was a distraction from the pain. Now, "Antinatalism" has already been mentioned and i honestly think it's kinda stupid in real life, but hey, you wanna take yourself out of the gene pool ? Be my guest. I can't deny that there is an objective truth to the whole thing, even more so in the world of AoT, especially for the "subjects of Ymir". They are the driving force of their own and other peoples suffering, quite literally, and they can't change it. Their mere existance is reason enough for other nations to go to war out of fear that eventually their power could be turned against them, so even if they do nothing (King Fritz) it changes nothing. Now, to circle back to Ksaver, if we weigh the "good" with the "bad" in his life, we must conclude that at least he himself perceives the bad to outweigh the good, so if we gave that some kind of value on a scale, i think it's fair to say that it would be a negative number. That reminds me a lot of what atheists say about "death", which goes something like this: "We didn't exist before and it didn't bother us, so when we die and go back to that state of non-existence it is no different". So in a sense, we start at 0, since we can't experience pain and suffering or indeed happiness before being born. So in that context, if being born in general leads to more suffering, then there is an arguement to be made that not being born is preferable. I'm the first to admit that it is kind of like saying "If you want world peace, just nuke the planet so nobody will ever be able to wage war again", which in itself is not technically wrong, but also doesn't quite adress the problem at hand, imo. As to it not being the people's choice, the arguementation here would be that a kid doesn't have any choice in being born and all the suffering is forced on it. The suffering of a single generation is simply insignificant compared to the perpetual suffering of possibly endless generations to come. In the same vein, taking away the choice of one generation doesn't trump the non-choice of all kids. Let the forest be there, but no kids, no problem, right ? ^^ Coming from this point of view, i feel like a lot of people in AoT have experienced the most tragic lives and would at least be open to that arguementation. Zeke had a bad childhood, Eren got the Attack Titan forced on him, he never asked for it, Mikasa didn't ask for being an Ackermann, she had no choice before life and argueably doesn't during her life, she lost her parents, Armin lost his parents, thinking about it a whole lot of people lost their parents and "got left behind alone". Do i even have to mention Reiner, lol ? Pretty much everyone in Paradis lived in constant fear and argueably still do, the Eldians outside of Paradis are kept like animals, forced into suicide squads. I don't know if "just have a happy outlook on life" cuts it in this case. That positive outlook might just be dismissed as a distraction, just like Ksaver tried to mask his grief by finding a new purpose in becoming a researcher. In any case, i think it's safe to say that every objection can be accounted for by that view, and from an impartial and nonjudgemental point of view, i think it's fascinating.
SpaceMonkey
2022-02-26 18:43:10 +0000 UTCTom Ksaver actually knew Grisha when he was still young. In the end credits scene of S3 E19 Grisha bumps into him as he and Faye are leaving Liberio and he calls out to him by name. In hindsight, that makes his decision to tell Zeke to turn him in even more painful than it appeared to already be.
Polygon
2022-02-26 18:22:03 +0000 UTCYeah, both euthanization and the rumbling will lead to genocide either the Marlyens, the rest of the world or Eldians themselves. Neither plan is really a good plan.
WuXian Suibian
2022-02-26 17:51:21 +0000 UTCAntinatalism is a real thing. Check their subreddit. It has 145k members. It's mainly people complaining about their life through memes. Imagine if one of them actually had the power to sterilize everyone (the next pandemic maybe?). I understand where they're coming from though.
The Weird Pianist
2022-02-26 17:24:26 +0000 UTCBEST 👏 EPISODE 👏 OF 👏 THE 👏 SEASON 👏 SERIOUSLY 👏 KNOCKED 👏 IT 👏 OUT 👏 OF 👏 THE 👏 PARK 👏 WITH 👏 A 👏 HOMERUN 👏 I mean if anyone disagrees fine because there are some real contenders for number one for this first half but this is one of the best episodes of the season and one of the best of the entire series hands down and such an important one. The adaptation from the source material was stellar. The art direction and music choices was gorgeous, there’s also some really smart editing choices at work, and the voice acting was some of the best we’ve heard. Literally give all the accolades to Tsuchida Hitoshi who voices Grisha. The man had my own childhood trauma come back to me with his screams as poor young Zeke cups his ears. And speaking of young Zeke, Daiki Yamashita (you’ll know him as Izuku in MHA) brings out an absolutely phenomenal performance. Now finally ZEKE. Zeke Jaeger. Zeke my boy. Zeke my man. I can finally talk about one of my favourite characters in the entire series! Easy top 5 and will never shift out of it. God it feels soo good for you to finally get to this moment where the veil is lifted and we get a glimpse into this man’s psyche and what a fucked up one it is. So messed up and yet so tragic because we now totally understand how someone like him could get to this point. From a child subjugated and torn down by his environment to a man capable of shredding the survey corps who are Eldians just like him… because he GENUINELY believes he is saving them. A true nihilist. The suffering that he went through and he saw around him tore him down and now he feels that sterilisation is the salivation of Eldians. Note that they will keep calling it euthanasia but it is sterilisation. His childhood was fucked up in every sense. People often comment that Zeke was the son that Grisha wanted on Paradis and Eren was the son that Grisha wanted in Marley and that really is the true irony of this situation. To force your own child to become a tool and ignore his needs and desires is fucked. It genuinely angers me to my very core. I’ve seen this kinda of indoctrination and it’s in every sense of the word cruel. Zeke did not do ANYTHING wrong as a child. Nothing. Turning them in was the correct thing for him to do at that time. It’s basically our version of calling child services. He was in an abusive home. Somewhere he should have felt at least a semblance of safety in this cruel world. Grisha and Dina were awful to Zeke in every sense. They did not view him as a child let alone as their own son. It’s absolutely despicable. They NEVER cared for him as an individual. Also congratulations parents you caused your child severe trauma and a real complex 👏 Also can just imagine yourself as a seven year old and you have different ideologies everywhere you go. And you are told to convince the different environments that you are on their side. No wonder Zeke is such a good actor now and managed to keep his true plan secret from everyone for soo long. His childhood taught him that skill. It’s interesting that you were worried about this episode reaction in our comments in the last episode and how a lot of people said it was there favourite. I can only speak for myself and say that this plan of Zeke’s is awful and I would NEVER be on board with something like this. In reality or in a fictional world, but god do I love him and how his character got to this point. I think during your discussion you talked a lot about how the ‘plan’ isn’t right and yes I totally agree with you. But I think you can disagree with his plan and still love his character and this episode. Not to say that you should love him! It’s totally fine if you aren’t a biggest fan of him. But to me this is perfect writing. Zeke is one of Isayama’s best creations. I love that the Jaeger brothers are on total opposite spectrums of life and its meaning. I love how much Zeke seems to genuinely care for Eren as a brother. He really sees himself in him and wants to ‘save’ him. Which makes sense from Zeke’s perspective. He had an awful childhood with Grisha and to find out that your abusive father had another child and is with all likelihood making another tool to use. You’d be horrified and deeply concerned. But sadly thats another tragedy for Zeke because Grisha DID learn from his mistakes. However, it does not in any way take away the suffering he caused to Zeke though… the Jaeger family really is a pretty fucked up one but god do I love them. Grisha, Zeke and Eren. Zeke is seeking familiar bonds and seeking love from family and when he finds out he has a lil brother he just wants Eren to understand him and be on his side. But Zeke doesn’t know Eren.. Now when it comes to Eren. Season 1 Episode 12 Armin: “Even though we might end up dying horrible deaths like my parents… Why did you ever want to see the outside world?” Eren: “Why, you ask? Isn’t it obvious? Because I was born into this world!” Season 1 Episode 13 Eren: “When we’re born, all of us are free. People who deny that, no matter how strong they are, don’t matter.” “However cruel the world may be … it doesn’t matter! Fight! Fight!” Maybe I should leave my Eren point with just this. There’s a number of famous quotes from this series but probably THE most iconic one from Eren is “I was born into this world”. This sentiment constantly shows up with him and absolutely embodies his whole character. Freedom is Eren and Eren is Freedom… and this plan contradicts everything about his character. We know his character and his philosophy… yeah I’m going to leave my point there - a few notes with your points about Mr Ksaver and his weak Beast Titan. Notice the Titan is called ‘Beast Titan’ and not ‘Ape or Monkey’… 👀 Mr Ksaver explains himself that he saw his dead son in Zeke. He didn’t tell Marley everything. So I think we can say for sure that he was genuine with Zeke. He told Zeke to turn in his parents because he didn’t wanna see this sweet kid that he sees as a son die. Like I said it’s basically an adult seeing a kid in a abusive home. Take away the Titan element of this and it’s fully understandable. Ksaver was a good person. With the founding Titan and how it came to be remember what Kruger said in 3x21 “some say she touched the source of all living matter” I love that Zeke underestimated Levi in 4x14 as he thought Levi’s compassion with his comrades would stop him from killing the titans. Of course we know as the audience that it WAS in a way Levi’s compassion that made him kill all of his comrades that had been turned into titans. But now Levi severely underestimated Zeke as well in 4x15 because he really thought Zeke didn’t have a death wish and that this so called ‘plan’ of his that Levi wasn’t privy to would mean that he wouldn’t blow himself up. But he did. Nice writing choice Isayama 👏 *sigh* I can talk for hours on this episode but I think I’ll leave it there. God I love Zeke’s story and character and can’t wait for you to get to the second half. Let’s go back on board the sad pain train *choo-choo*
Sacha
2022-02-26 16:44:26 +0000 UTCIf you rewatch the end credit scene from 'The Basement', Grisha actually bumped into Ksaver as a kid, and Ksaver called him by name. Knowing that Ksaver knew Grisha since he was a kid adds even more weight to his decision to tell Zeke to report them.
Maia Brodsky
2022-02-26 16:34:44 +0000 UTCI really think Zeke's mental/social/emotional development was stunted by his childhood experiences. Because he never had a real childhood, he often acts like a child as an adult. This helped me reconcile his behavior while throwing rocks at Erwin and the recruits. His coping mechanism to deal with what he was doing was to pretend he was playing baseball, something that connects him to Ksaver and to his reasons for doing all this.
Maia Brodsky
2022-02-26 15:35:31 +0000 UTCIt's interesting that they call it euthanization ("good death"). What they're really doing is mass sterilization, which is still genocide, no matter what Zeke wants to call it. He's yet another great character who 100% makes sense to me, even though I think what he's doing is wrong.
Maia Brodsky
2022-02-26 15:25:23 +0000 UTCI don't think Levi knows about the euthanization plan. All we saw was him mumbling about it and Levi not really knowing what he was talking about.
Maia Brodsky
2022-02-26 15:21:33 +0000 UTCI don't actually know, but I'm pretty sure any titan spinal fluid will turn Eldians into pure titans if it enters their bloodstream. My evidence for this: how was Marley passing down the titan powers from the previous warriors to Zeke and the younger kids (and the titans before them, etc.)? And all the serum they used to inject Grisha's Restorationist buddies. They definitely didn't have a royal titan then. The special thing about Zeke is that he can actually command the titans he creates, while the Founding titan's power can command all Pure titans (as seen when Eren used it in s2ep12).
Maia Brodsky
2022-02-26 14:48:14 +0000 UTCI always say that Sasha's death did way more for the story than her life ever did. It's sad that it turned out that way, but Isayama did a great tribute to her by tying her death into major thematic, moral, and even plot points in ways I never expected. He gave her death a true deeper meaning, just like he did with Erwin.
Maia Brodsky
2022-02-26 14:30:57 +0000 UTCAww I was gonna make a 'don't drink the wine' joke, but you beat me to it lol
Maia Brodsky
2022-02-26 14:19:59 +0000 UTC
